TTB Reputation System?

[goldisheavy]

Actually I am not against a well thought out moderation/karma system but such a system will practically never appear on any commonly used php forum software. Such systems are hard to design well and easy to design wrong, just like encryption software.

 

Anyway, I don't think the pluses and minuses are a big deal if they're just there for personal information of forum users. If moderators make their decisions based on those, at least in the naive and silly state this forum's karma design is in, that would be a shame.

Edited November 10, 2010 by goldisheavy

[Stigweard]

Actually I am not against a well thought out moderation/karma system but such a system will practically never appear on any commonly used php forum software. Such systems are hard to design well and easy to design wrong, just like encryption software.

 

Anyway, I don't think the pluses and minuses are a big deal if they're just there for personal information of forum users. If moderators make their decisions based on those, at least in the naive and silly state this forum's karma design is in, that would be a shame.

You can be assured that at least one moderator would never do something as superficial as that

[Sloppy Zhang]

My concern has been less of moderator action with regards to these things, but the action taken upon other members. A bit more specifically, I think it can open up an avenue for people to gang up on another member.

 

So, say a bunch of people decided, "hey, this person is a troll" or "this person is just advertising" or "this person just doesn't understand the true nature" or something like that, then they all just minus the comments. And then, since we can all see the numbers, that same group of people can say, "well look at that, I guess nobody liked/agreed with what you said/are saying, maybe you should just go away and...." and yadda yadda, something like that.

 

Basically, it could take the focus away from the content of the post itself, and be more like, "well nobody likes it, so obviously you don't have anything of value to say".

 

Don't know if your average day at thetaobums would produce such a scenario, but I think a few threads/situations/people have gotten to a point where such a scenario could be a possibility.

[goldisheavy]

My concern has been less of moderator action with regards to these things, but the action taken upon other members. A bit more specifically, I think it can open up an avenue for people to gang up on another member.

 

What would that entail? A big negative number?

 

So, say a bunch of people decided, "hey, this person is a troll" or "this person is just advertising" or "this person just doesn't understand the true nature" or something like that, then they all just minus the comments. And then, since we can all see the numbers, that same group of people can say, "well look at that, I guess nobody liked/agreed with what you said/are saying, maybe you should just go away and...." and yadda yadda, something like that.

 

Basically, it could take the focus away from the content of the post itself, and be more like, "well nobody likes it, so obviously you don't have anything of value to say".

 

Don't know if your average day at thetaobums would produce such a scenario, but I think a few threads/situations/people have gotten to a point where such a scenario could be a possibility.

 

Hmm... I hope most of us here are beyond such things. Maybe I am naive.

[Taiji Bum]

Yes in fact they do. As we can see with Mr Vaj. Perhaps someone did drop a -1 on a bunch of his posts. But now I notice that another someone has run around and dropped +1 on a whole bunch

 

I will investigate if we can monitor such activity

 

Well, can you see how we voted? My only concern for this system is if I hit a negative sign on some moderators favorite qigong system advocate, will they gang up on me.

 

When I first joined Tao Bums there was absolutely no moderation at all. It was a free for all. Now it seems to have cycled to the exact opposite. I guess thats Tao, huh?

[Stigweard]

Well, can you see how we voted? My only concern for this system is if I hit a negative sign on some moderators favorite qigong system advocate, will they gang up on me.

 

When I first joined Tao Bums there was absolutely no moderation at all. It was a free for all. Now it seems to have cycled to the exact opposite. I guess thats Tao, huh?

 

You can be assured that we cant see who voted what. And as to the obvious moderation I do apologize, it is our ideal to stay invisible if at all possible. Obviously still haven't perfected that I try and follow Laozi's advice that administration shouldn't interfere with peoples natural activities. A work in progress

[Apech]

Its all in the interpretation I think. If people minus click a post or if I look at someone's overall reputation what am I supposed to make of it? Using Vaj as an example - he stimulates a lot of debate and livens up the forum but ends up with minus scores what am I supposed to do with this information? If I was a new member I might be put off or distracted by it.

 

The other things is that certain members might score every post they read while others never bother - so all we are getting is the opinion of a few. For it to have any meaning everyone would need to use it and I am not sure that we all want to. If that's the case it becomes meaningless.

 

Why not do a poll - who wants it and who would sign up to using it?

[C T]

Why not do a poll - who wants it and who would sign up to using it?

Wonderful idea!

[Marblehead]

Wonderful idea!

 

Hehehe. I feel a loss for my side coming up. Oh well. Won't be the first.

[Sloppy Zhang]

Its all in the interpretation I think. If people minus click a post or if I look at someone's overall reputation what am I supposed to make of it? Using Vaj as an example - he stimulates a lot of debate and livens up the forum but ends up with minus scores what am I supposed to do with this information? If I was a new member I might be put off or distracted by it.

 

The other things is that certain members might score every post they read while others never bother - so all we are getting is the opinion of a few. For it to have any meaning everyone would need to use it and I am not sure that we all want to. If that's the case it becomes meaningless.

 

Why not do a poll - who wants it and who would sign up to using it?

 

But if some people never use it, won't the same people just not vote to begin with y'know, voter apathy and all?

[VCraigP]

Well, can you see how we voted? My only concern for this system is if I hit a negative sign on some moderators favorite qigong system advocate, will they gang up on me.

 

When I first joined Tao Bums there was absolutely no moderation at all. It was a free for all. Now it seems to have cycled to the exact opposite. I guess thats Tao, huh?

 

Not to pick on you specifically but OMG...you people are so sensitive. Must be all that meditation stuff you are doing.

 

Does anyone honestly believe this forum to be heavily moderated??? Exact opposite of no moderation??

 

Didn't Stig say something about hitting the neg button for people who hijack a thread to indicate to stay on topic and that a post is going away from the topic?

 

Anyway...get over it. TTB is NOT heavily moderated. But that's just my opinion of course, not being a moderator.

 

Please feel free to disagree. Carry on with civil discourse.

 

Craig

[Sloppy Zhang]

Not to pick on you specifically but OMG...you people are so sensitive. Must be all that meditation stuff you are doing.

 

Does anyone honestly believe this forum to be heavily moderated??? Exact opposite of no moderation??

 

Didn't Stig say something about hitting the neg button for people who hijack a thread to indicate to stay on topic and that a post is going away from the topic?

 

Anyway...get over it. TTB is NOT heavily moderated. But that's just my opinion of course, not being a moderator.

 

Please feel free to disagree. Carry on with civil discourse.

 

Craig

 

I agree that this place isn't heavily moderated! Which, to be honest, is very refreshing.

 

But for me, it's more about how it could be (ab)used by the users. Sure, anything is open for abuse. I think TTB is one of the best communities around, all things considered. But it's gotten pretty ugly in the past. While moderator action only happens in pretty extreme cases, there's a lot that goes on which DOESN'T get (or in my opinion, require) moderator action. HOWEVER, I think this system would be open to the abuse during those types of situations, which normally would blow over, but now might be exacerbated because there's a literal gauge for what's going on with the post outside of the post's content.

 

If that makes any sense...

Edited November 10, 2010 by Sloppy Zhang

[Apech]

Just in case anyone hasn't noticed I've put up a poll.

[Bum Grasshopper]

When I first joined Tao Bums there was absolutely no moderation at all. It was a free for all. Now it seems to have cycled to the exact opposite. I guess thats Tao, huh?

 

Nope. According to the Tao Te Ching it's moving away from the Tao.

 

Guess that sums up my opinion of the practice.

[Creation]

I think remember Trunk saying something a while back about how a voting system would have the function of archiving the really good posts for future generations to find. I think that is an awesome idea, but one that would require DISCIPLINE on the part of forum members not to abuse the voting feature. Which, unfortunately, is probably impossible for a forum of this size and growth rate.

 

At any rate, I do not think the "down vote" feature serves any purpose. Best case scenario is that only trolls get down voted, but so what? What would that even accomplish? I was upset to see people down vote others just because they didn't like what was said (e.g. someone down voted Baguakid for saying he didn't get much out of the Chunyi Lin interview. WTF? Is he not entitled to his opinion?), and even worse, the systematic down voting of most of Vajrahridaya's posts, which is just plain childish.

[Sloppy Zhang]

I think remember Trunk saying something a while back about how a voting system would have the function of archiving the really good posts for future generations to find. I think that is an awesome idea, but one that would require DISCIPLINE on the part of forum members not to abuse the voting feature. Which, unfortunately, is probably impossible for a forum of this size and growth rate.

 

I hope there is not an archiving system which is based around, or prioritizes, highly voted posts. Some unpopular posts might have some great truths to them, but just got voted down because it's not popular. Another good post could also get lost in the abyss simply because people read it, thought, "wow, great post!" then didn't comment and didn't (or forgot) to vote, simply because they felt the job was done and they moved on.

[Aetherous]

What it really comes down to for me is: yesterday we as a forum gave Vajrahridaya a -33 reputation.

 

How does it feel (for anyone) to be ostracized from a community, like that?

 

This is a Taoist forum...specifically one which we call ourselves "bums"! Our actions are completely inappropriate for the title of this place.

 

Instead, we should be making people feel welcome, and encouraging differences of opinion. Then we can grow in our own views. If we just make people want to leave, then all that we have left is our own stupidity, with no one to challenge it.

[Marblehead]

Nope. According to the Tao Te Ching it's moving away from the Tao.

 

Guess that sums up my opinion of the practice.

 

Hi Grasshopper,

 

I disagree. In the TTC there are guidelines for social behavior. And the government oversees these social behavior guidelines.

 

Same here. There are guidelines for social behavior. The moderators oversee the guidelines.

 

Moderation here is very liberal here. I am proud of our moderators. You know, if all the members would have followed generally acceptable social behavior guidelines from the get-go there would have been no need for ever considering moderation. I remember the early days of my membership. Under normal conditions I would have been ashamed of some of my behavior and posts! But that was what was going on. When in Rome ..., you know.

[Aetherous]

You know, if all the members would have followed generally acceptable social behavior guidelines from the get-go there would have been no need for ever considering moderation

 

Yeah, but fuck that shit.

[Apech]

Yeah, but fuck that shit.

 

Scotty!!!

[Mark Foote]

Karma stars? Are you serious? What colors do you like? Red, gold or blue?

LOL!

[Mark Foote]

Exactly, who thought of this? I read the criteria as to how posts are graded. The criteria are subjective at best and may represent personal biases on the part of individual moderators. This micro managing of people's opinions will eventually ruin this forum! It seems to me that free speech is not welcome here.

 

This forum is part of the real world and to separate opinions into some mythical hierarchy of good and bad serves no one here. To me, it is offensive to be treated as if I were a child who is misbehaving and will not have a gold star on the refrigerator this week.

I posted this on Stig's original thread, but I'd like to offer it here as well; from the Tao Te Ching:

 

In comparison, the sage,

in harmony with the Tao,

needs no comparisons,

and when he makes them, knows

that comparisons are judgements,

and just as relative to he who makes them,

and to the situation,

as they are to that on which

the judgement has been made.

 

ok, ok, I realize that a moderator's life is not easy, and I appreciate the service that TTB moderators provide to the community at large- but are you looking for public support of decisions to ostracize individuals from the board- are you thinking you will shame the trolls out from under the bridges- are we thinking this is valuable feedback for some individuals? Hmmm, well, maybe so!

 

How do you plan to assess whether this feature benefits the discussion, or inhibits the discussion? Do you have metrics you can discuss? I don't mind taking part in the experiment, but I wonder how we will know what the result if we don't know what it was intended to achieve. Thank you.

[Pietro]

[Ninpo-me-this-ninjutsu-me-that]

 

What it really comes down to for me is: yesterday we as a forum gave Vajrahridaya a -33 reputation.

 

 

That sucks..... no one deserves that. Especially someone who does actually contribute.

[Ninpo-me-this-ninjutsu-me-that]

 

235 people blocking Mal

 

 

You were low-balling there Pietro. It's gotta be at least double!

 

I gave him a red click the other day, and that was only because I want him to change his picture.

 

I wanna see him in the 'Mal does Barry White pose'.

 

I'll entice him with a promise of a green click.