Sacred text that has not been altered by man?

[Marblehead]

The last two posts is one of the reasons I will not go any deeper into any specific religion. It is not my intention to credit or discredit any specific religion or religions in general.

 

Yes, it is fair to challenge statements of opinion.

 

I think that my only place here is to state my opinions and understandings in general terms and leave it at that.

 

In a discussion such as this I have no need to support my opinions and understandings.

 

But then, it is fair for others to challenge if they feel it is appropriate.

 

However, I think that any statement of presumed fact can fairly be challenged by anyone who wishes to take part in this discussion.

 

Remember, "Peace & Love Y'all".

[strawdog65]

 

 

Most religions are created to favor the people of the culture where the religion was founded and pretty much denigrates all other religions and their followers. These are the ways of man. If any religion falls into this category then I would say that the religion is based in man's greed and corrupted by descrimination and not based on any loving and caring god.

 

So it is my opinion that if there is anything written in any of these sacred books that descriminates against any other group or culture of people it is a false teaching - a teaching of greedy men, not of a loving god.

 

I believe that there is nothing sacred about anything man does or has created. The only sacred things in this universe are those things that are beyond the control and manipulation on man. The only thing I have found that falls into this category are the processes of nature (Tzujan). Even Tao has been corrupted by man through his needless destruction of various aspects of this planet we live on.

 

 

As A voice of moderation...

We all have our own distinct views of what Is true to us.

I do believe we are all united within the Tao, in a presently

disheveled oneness, existing whether we believe it or not.

The whole reason I was impressed with Taoism is the whole of IT.

 

I fail to see the use of arguments to convince or prove that which is

incontrovertible, that being ANY faith or belief type of system.

 

Marblehead, I feel what you say to be the closest alignment to my own

personal experience of truth.

 

Shaolin, If you are a believer in True Tao...then to contend with someone

purely for the act of contention is wasted effort, and not the Way.

 

Regardless of our viewpoints, WE are ALL contained within the WHOLE

of the TAO, We are the living essence of the Duality of the TAO.

 

Peace and understanding to everyone.

[Marblehead]

As A voice of moderation...

 

Peace and understanding to everyone.

 

Nice post Strawdog. Thanks for participating.

[Apech]

The last two posts is one of the reasons I will not go any deeper into any specific religion. It is not my intention to credit or discredit any specific religion or religions in general.

 

Yes, it is fair to challenge statements of opinion.

 

<snip>

 

I feel a bit offended being included in this! I was trying to point out that someone expressing a sincerely held belief (even though they may be mistaken) is not a liar ... which is what GiH seemed to be implying.

 

I do try to respect other peoples religious beliefs because I think that even though I may not subscribe to their view it is likely to include some truth - or element of truth - and also I choose to respect the person (even though this may be challenging sometimes).

[Apech]

As A voice of moderation...

We all have our own distinct views of what Is true to us.

I do believe we are all united within the Tao, in a presently

disheveled oneness, existing whether we believe it or not.

The whole reason I was impressed with Taoism is the whole of IT.

 

<snip>

 

 

"Disheveled oneness" I love that! I cultivate being disheveled everyday in my manner and attire!

 

I am only heveled (is that a word?) at weddings and funerals.

[Marblehead]

I feel a bit offended being included in this! I was trying to point out that someone expressing a sincerely held belief (even though they may be mistaken) is not a liar ... which is what GiH seemed to be implying.

 

I do try to respect other peoples religious beliefs because I think that even though I may not subscribe to their view it is likely to include some truth - or element of truth - and also I choose to respect the person (even though this may be challenging sometimes).

 

It was not my desire to offend anyone. I am sorry that you took offense. I guess I was over-reacting to the two posts. Not very Taoist of me.

[Apech]

It was not my desire to offend anyone. I am sorry that you took offense. I guess I was over-reacting to the two posts. Not very Taoist of me.

 

It's ok just wanted to get that off my chest.

 

You are very Taoist marbles don't worry.

[thelerner]

Mihcael,

 

No hate , just quotes from the Talmud. I gave no personal opinion.

 

Weird, you don't hate..you just spread it?

 

You engage in Racism 101, taking quotes out of context. Clipping and pasting parts where people say things like "Whoever gave the Egyptians (in Genesis) horses, they should be killed" or "The Romans have burned my village and killed my family, they should all die horribly". Statements like these in the 9 to 12 volumes that make up the Talmud give you your quotes, but its a game rascists have always played.

 

You're smart enough to be angry when people do it to you ala

http://en.wikipedia..../Satanic_Verses

http://www.muslimhop...sInTheQuran.htm

 

but you lack the moral fiber to look into the truth before you sling out quotes like "Moslems are told to murder, lie, rape, and be pedophiliacs". Whoops did it again, I meant you wrote Jews.. I get you mixed up with GoldisHeavy sometimes.

 

Frankly, the bible many of the stories in the bible are damn hard to justify, particularly the actions of G-d. Thats why the Talmud is so important. (The blood baths in the Quran and just after it are no walk in the park either though.) You link Samson as the first suicide terrorist (you are soo clever).

 

If you took a course in the Talmud you'd learn how to analyze, also about what sages thought about Samson- Mostly he was a case of more brawn then brains. The moral they give in general is 'Don't be like Samson', more specifically 'Don't let your dick lead you around'. Lots of good wisdom there. Also don't take things so literally, no one has a score keeper behind them in the bible, 3000 killed just means great warrior.

 

Samson as a suicide bomber?? Blinded, harassed and chained to pillars that may not be securely mortared. I think anybody would pull and hope for the best. Its a far cry from strapping on explosives and walking into a restaurant, bus, or crowded market area. Suicide bombers aren't a real high modern moral point for Moslems, enough said.

 

Anyway, as a Jew I've found reading stories in the Quran related to the old testament very enlightening. When I wrote the Quran thought the world was flat, shaolin wrote no they didn't so I did research on it. Its enjoyable to learn and research, I reported back that the evidence pro and counter is murky. Most of the quotes to prove it were taken out of context (big surprise)!

 

shaolin, you'll never take a class or read the whole Talmud, but before you sling accusations of murder rape etc. read the section in it on morals. Just spend a half hour or so reading Perkei Avot, Ethics of Our Fathers. Hopefully it will kill a part of you that should be dead.

 

I believe it was Mark Twain who said "Learning and travel are deadly to prejudices." Spend some time reading GoldisHeavy's posts too; maybe you can learn Hillel's(famous Talmudist) Rule "What is hateful to you, don't do onto others."

 

Its ironic that internet has been such a boon to rascists of all stripes. You can always find a demented group willing to say, "We're right, they're hateful, we're special." The truth is we can be special without wallowing or in your case shaolin spreading hate.

 

 

Michael