Anyone here trained in tm?

[GrandTrinity]

I want to revive some discussion about TM. Anyone here trained in it?

 

they are doing some interesting stuff...

 

www.cbeprograms.org

[cloud recluse]

From my understanding,one of the big problems with TM is an insistence on a minimum period of meditation for ALL practitioners.OK until intense psychological abreaction occurs at a rate faster than the subject can cope with.At such a point,meditation time should be decreased or stopped alltogether to prevent a psychotic break,but the TMrs tend to insist on maintaining,or even INCREASING,the time regardless of the subjects psychological profile!

 

Now,they are not the only group to fail to take into account the personal psychology of the subject.There was a lot of material in The Journal Of Transpersonal Psychology a few years back about 'over-meditating' in a number of different traditions,but I dont know if the TM crowd ever addressed this or not.If you want the technique shorn of the dogma,with appropriate modifications for strong abreaction,check out FREEDOM IN MEDITATION by Patricia Carrington PhD. Also Stephen Copes YOGA AND THE QUEST FOR THE TRUE SELF has a thorough discussion of dealing with the psychological fallout of meditation,I think in chapters9-12.This would give all the real susbstance of TM without the drawbacks.

 

Regards,Cloud.

[karen]

I want to revive some discussion about TM. Anyone here trained in it?

 

Yes.

 

I would say.. assess how it feels to you, all the aspects of it including the money, the way it's presented, the way the teachers deal with you. Ask yourself if it feels clear and true in a real way, not just in an attractive way. (for example, I did a lot of things because I had some affinity for the trappings of Indian culture).

 

Ask yourself if you feel controlled or manipulated at all. Does the teaching and practice honor and support your own best path, or do you feel some discomfort about the structure of it.

 

That kind of awareness is itself a training .

 

Best,

Karen

[Yoda]

TM was okay. It's just mantrayana and you can find the secret mantras online. Google TM secret mantras or something like that. It's based on your birthday. You can google all the secrets and exposes etc too. Like the yogic flying mantra, etc.

 

I'm back into mantra meditation through AYP and I enjoy AYP better--it's free online, the mantra is similar to my TM mantra but nicer, and it is more flexible so you don't run into the same problems as the above post says.

 

I think many of the ideas, studies, programs of TM are extremely cool and quite pioneering, but there's that common slightly culty aftertaste.

[thelerner]

I think Yoda summed it pretty well, "I think many of the ideas, studies, programs of TM are extremely cool and quite pioneering, but there's that common slightly culty aftertaste."

 

I'm getting a little more into chants and sounds. I've been working w/ the book Ecstatic Kabalah and doing some of the vowel chants and prayer as sacred sound practices.

 

On a psychological basis, simple chanting get you out of the monkey mind state. On an internal energy basis, some sounds seem to resonate in different parts of body (try laughing hee heehe throat, Haaha haah heart, ho ho hoho belly, etc). You get a further lift if you can connect to the meaning (hopefully sacred) that is behind the chant.

 

Michael

[turbo]

Here is some info that is critical of TM:

 

http://www.suggestibility.org/

 

I met a man who practiced TM for 25 years, and didn't embrace the yogic flying and the other distractions they had come up with since he started. He told me after attending a 10 vipassana retreat (www.dhamma.org) that he was through with TM and was going to stick with vipassana.

 

Another person I met told me very matter of factly about how Maharishi Mahesh Yogi has received yogic instruction from some high source and that he was revealing them to people... and continued in this vein for a while... it was a bit too much. I've found that most people on a path that they are happy with dont really have to defend it, they just say try it for yourself and see what works.

 

As far as AYP goes, Yogani says that some TM folks are trying it out and are happy with it.

 

On the face of the webpage you provided they start making claims of scietific validity and improved educational results. There is a book called Superlearning that advocates yoga as a technique for improved mental/educatinal benefits. Proper yogic techniqes cleanse the mind and nervous system, and improve concentration. All of this works toward greater educatability. So any yogic tecnhique should work not just TM.

 

Comparte the front page of TM to AYP.

 

Personally I would avoid TM.

[mYTHmAKER]

I practiced TM for a few years and I enjoyed it and found it beneficial i.e it helped my mind calm down.

I will now answer your next question - Why did i stop. I found a guru and meditated with another mantra.

Now I do Zhan zhang - standing meditation.

I have a friend who was a TM teacher and still meditates using their mantra and she is not really involved with the organization.

I think any organizaton has the possibility of being a cult.

To me the biggest cults are christianity, judaism, buddhism etc.

There are many places you can get a mantra without paying.

You can just sit and watch your thoughts without engaging them - it will accomplish the same thing as a mantra.

The purpose of the mantra is to focus your mind so you can go beyond mind.

[neimad]

To me the biggest cults are christianity, judaism, buddhism etc.

 

couldn't agree more.

[turbo]

The purpose of the mantra is to focus your mind so you can go beyond mind.

 

From what I understand about mantras this statement is generally true, however certian mantras lend themselves to this better than others and may have other effects as well. See here.

[GrandTrinity]

Superlearning? Where is that book?

 

Personaly I never took to this whole mantra thing. I use mantra but change them all the time, just to keep my mind coming back to something if I dont want to forget it or keep contemplating it..idk if I buy this whole mantra thing. To stop saying the world and feel it in the mind however is pretty sweet, like when you stop repeating "one" in you head and just feel it.

Edited May 18, 2006 by GrandTrinity

[turbo]

Superlearning? Where is that book?

 

Personaly I never took to this whole mantra thing. I use mantra but change them all the time, just to keep my mind coming back to something if I dont want to forget it or keep contemplating it..idk if I buy this whole mantra thing. To stop saying the world and feel it in the mind however is pretty sweet, like when you stop repeating "one" in you head and just feel it.

here

 

From what I understand about mantras (not much) you need to stick with it for an appreciable amount of time (six months to a year) so that it has time to get deep in your nervous system. Give the lessons on the AYP site a try and see what happens.

 

Also, to reply to my post above, if some mantras have positive effects then it stands to reason that others potentialy have negative effects. So it would make sense to do some research to discover a good one or learn one from someone who has done the research.

 

Before practicing te AYP lessons I thought that mantras were useless and at best a form of entertainment for the mind. After a few months of practice that does not seem to be the case.

[GrandTrinity]

Well the Tm people, and the David Lynch foundation agreed to give me a scholarship to get training as funds become available. This is mosty becuase I am a student and studying it through college. Also I am interested in the propagation of all meditation techniques, even if there are kinks to be worked out. For example they make me pledge to meditate 20 minutes twice per day, which is no problem. They also want me to attend checkups once a week for a month or two and then monthly checkups. Also I should consider giving my money to other if I can for their training in the future...not a bad deal!

[turbo]

Please examine this website carefully and throughly before becoming involved with the TM folks:

 

http://www.suggestibility.org/

[David]

I have been practicing TM since Sept., 1970. I have taken advanced courses and have taught TM through the organizations founded by Maharishi Mahesh Yogi. More recently, I am sharing the comparable technique called Natural Stress Relief on an inexpensive and nonprofit basis with everyone who wants to learn.

 

There is nothing special about me except that I do understand the philosophy behind TM and I feel bad when I hear negativity about it. Such negativity keeps people from practicing transcending, which is the most efficient way to experience the source of all intelligent thought, unbounded bliss consciousness. Techniques that would have you examine your thoughts passively leave you floating somewhere, they don't systematically bring you to joyful transcendence. On the side of the body, they don't free the nervous system from the damaging effects of stress.

 

All the talk about mantras misses the point. The purpose of the mantra in TM is not to focus the mind. The purpose of the mantra is to provide a beneficial thought that is easily forgotten. It is the process of keeping the mind lively without a concrete direction that allows the natural process of transcending to take place.

 

I agree that Maharishi is bringing exciting techniques and insight to the world, but I also disagree with his pricing TM out of the reach of most people ($2500 per person in the USA). I do not see this as at all helpful in spreading this precious teaching. I also disagree with his shutting down TM teaching in England and his insistence that most homes and businesses must be demolished and rebuilt with their entrances pointing in the "auspicious" direction (East or North) in order that the inhabitants be able to live without problems and suffering. I believe that problems and suffering come from a weak and damaged nervous system, not the orientation of the entrance of one's home or office. Maharishi hurts his cause by obsessing on pseudoscience.

 

That having been said, the wise person will overlook the irrational and will enjoy the beautiful kernel of the teaching, which brings fulfillment to life. By visiting the unbounded field of awareness twice a day, we can grow in love and breadth of view until higher states of consciousness, including the Unity that is Tao, naturally reveal themselves.

 

David Spector

Natural Stress Relief/USA

[GrandTrinity]

Trance induction? I hope it offers a trance! Meditation and trance go together like peanut butter and jelly!

 

mmmh mmmh good

 

I will be careful for the rabbit hole!

[Yoda]

David,

 

It's an honor to have one of your experience posting here! If you have a link for your work, do post it.

 

It's said that even the imperfections of a guru are really quite auspicious and should be regarded as part of his or her radiance as well. I think that is the case with the Maharishi. It compells the movement to open up and to share more, as is the case with you.

 

GT-

 

I think it's fine to study with them. To paraphrase Austin Powers, "They won't bite hard, baby. Yeah."

 

-Yoda

[hagar]

Ops, I did it again...I am online, discussing things... My name is Hagar, and I'm an Internet addict. How ironic.

 

I started out with 7 years of TM. Or more specifically a Norwegian branch that broke off from the more religious and metaphysical dimensions of TM and called it ACEM. It follows the same routine, only cut down to the bone. No big talk, only practice. Very Zen-like.

 

I have benifited greatly from it, yet felt it neglected the body's need for alignment with the Qi.

What I took from it was the realization that the content of mind should be encountered with ease, and detatchment. Nomatter what comes up.

 

I stopped practicing when I started the sitting practice I do now, which is far less dualistic. Also, the emphasis on letting the head drop down when relaxed broke off the energy circulation and ended up giving me a blockage in my sacrum. Everytime I went out of meditation I felt a (yes you may smile) burning sensation in my coccyx shooting forward to the perimeum. But strangely, when I sat with my legs crossed and back straight, I felt sometimes like I was sitting 1 foot off the ground.

 

h

[affenbrot]

Please examine this website carefully and throughly before becoming involved with the TM folks:

 

http://www.suggestibility.org/

 

not to forget the interesting letter of Earl Kaplan . TM and Earl Kaplan

[turbo]

I have been practicing TM since Sept., 1970. I have taken advanced courses and have taught TM through the organizations founded by Maharishi Mahesh Yogi. More recently, I am sharing the comparable technique called Natural Stress Relief on an inexpensive and nonprofit basis with everyone who wants to learn.

 

There is nothing special about me except that I do understand the philosophy behind TM and I feel bad when I hear negativity about it. Such negativity keeps people from practicing transcending, which is the most efficient way to experience the source of all intelligent thought, unbounded bliss consciousness.

1. There are plenty of people with negative experiences. Why should you feel bad when people share their negative experiences with your system. Surely not every spiritual system can be appropriate for eveyone. However, with TM it seems that the negative experiences go far beyond, "It simply was not for me."

 

Techniques that would have you examine your thoughts passively leave you floating somewhere, they don't systematically bring you to joyful transcendence. On the side of the body, they don't free the nervous system from the damaging effects of stress.

2. The four noble truths of the Buddha did not include trancendence, but did include suffering. He spoke of ridding the body-mind of dukka to attain enlightnement, not escaping to "transcendence".

 

All the talk about mantras misses the point. The purpose of the mantra in TM is not to focus the mind. The purpose of the mantra is to provide a beneficial thought that is easily forgotten. It is the process of keeping the mind lively without a concrete direction that allows the natural process of transcending to take place.

3. Why waste time with a mantra that is only to be forgotten while other mantras offer other benefits? Some are directed to clearing certian nadis, or chi channels, some clease the heart, or the mind. I've even heard there is one for the prostate.

Further, why pay $2,500 for a mantra, when you can find time tested ones for free?

 

...

 

4. Sounds like you hve become a true believer.

 

5. The Cathedral vs the Bazaar. Or open systems versus closed systems. This is taken from a train of though in computer science where the Cathedral's product is designed in secret by an "elite" group with out being open to evaluation and criticism of others (sounds like TM). The Bazaar's product is developed in view of the public. Appling this to spiritual systems can reveal defects or potential defects in a system. First who has evaluated it? What have they found? What evidence were they given to evaluate? Do you come to the same conclusion? Applying these and similar questions can be very revealing. Everyone wants to know whats in their food, why not their spiritual system?

[Smile]

[neimad]

what makes him the authority on all that stuff when he pretty much admits at the beginning he isn't enlightened and is actually a long way from it??

 

just another person trying to ram their believes on people..... but thats the way it is, everyone has their opinion/belief (or if they have amassed enough experience - interpretation) on truth and we all try and shove it on everyone else.

 

uggghh.

 

i guess it's good though, because all the different opinions and interpretations you read could allow you help in forming and experiencing your own.

 

perhaps?

[sean]

Bodri's tone is harsh, but he's a New Yorkah, so yo, whaddyah expect, uh? IMO he's a good scholar with worthy insights from both deep study and a cultivation practice under the counsel of an excellent teacher.

[Cameron]

He's an interesting guy. His approach to emtiness cultivation has a more masculine feeling. I am currently more attracted to the feminine approach to teaching and viewing emptiness cultivation but his approach is probably useful to some people too.

 

I am not comfortable with the judging of peoples "spiritual level" but he seems to have a calling for that sort of thing. The Christian cultivation stages is interesting too and I'll probably give "Measuring Meditation" another look when I have time.

 

Cam