Practices to reduce or eliminate the influence of lust

[hajimesaito]

I am recently being gripped more and more by the influence and attachment of lust. Consciously I always realize it strongly within my mind that imagining the girl sitting on the bench in a park is with me on bed and doing "weird" things is not only useless and fruitless, but also detrimental for my mental and emotional health as well as an obstruction on the way to Tao. So please suggest me some techniques, practices, meditations, methods or whatever that will allow me to either eliminate or reduce the growing force of lust in my mind.

 

I want to go back to the days when I wouldn't be lusty after checking out random chicks or would be watching porn so often. Frankly speaking, I may be more lusty now, but really even if I were to really have sex with some Hot chick I wouldn't feel as much pleasure as when I was a more "decent" and balanced individual who was not easily influenced by sensual desires. Its just somehow my mind is hungry for sex, but never satisfied even when "fed" with that.

 

 

Well, frankly speaking my condition is not as bad as it may sound from my post; in fact, I think I am still not in the situation where I masturbate everyday watching porn or so conditioned sexually by porn that I wouldn't get any pleasure when I have to really act that. But still, I am concerned because I know that the compartment of lust grows by reducing that of love (and in fact lust reduces real pleasure as well; think about it). I do not want to be glued to the computer just because I happened to have ended up at a site with an Ad of a semi-naked girl making sensual moves and then moved on to browse more and more (perhaps its curiosity as well). I know I was better before. Even if I ended up in a porn site, I would really get filled with desires (in other words, get an erection). Now I dont really feel as much bodily pleasure and desire after coming across anything sensual in nature, yet my "hunger" to look at it more and more has increased much than before.

 

 

Anyway, my history aside, I would really like some suggestions on how to reduce the influence of lust. I have actually decided to walk the path of celibacy for at least quite some time (may be half a year or one year) so as to again "purify" my mind that is conditioned so much with all the past experiences (of watching porn and fantasizing about sex with strangers). I am sure some kind of meditation would help. But my experience is that if not done in regularity, even meditation actually acts as a catalyst to make my mind more vulnerable to the magnet pull of sexual objects. This if from experience. Often when I have meditated after a long period, I end up getting aroused more easily. But when I have practiced it for quite some time regularly, then it indeed leads to a stronger mind that is not easily influenced by sense and desires. Lately, due to job change and hectic schedule, I have been skipping not only meditation, but also my physical exercises. I am sure this is a major reason for the shift in the strength of my mind in getting enslaved by attachment and desire.

[Sloppy Zhang]

Stop thinking about it.

 

And by that, I mean, think about something else.

 

The more you try *not* to think about something, the more you wind up thinking about it.

 

But if you think of something else, and find some other hobby to take up all the time you would spend doing whatever else you want to stop doing, then, well, you wind up not thinking about the thing you want to stop doing, and it slowly detaches from your life.

[zerostao]

I am recently being gripped more and more by the influence and attachment of lust. Consciously I always realize it strongly within my mind that imagining the girl sitting on the bench in a park is with me on bed and doing "weird" things is not only useless and fruitless, but also detrimental for my mental and emotional health as well as an obstruction on the way to Tao. So please suggest me some techniques, practices, meditations, methods or whatever that will allow me to either eliminate or reduce the growing force of lust in my mind.

 

I want to go back to the days when I wouldn't be lusty after checking out random chicks or would be watching porn so often. Frankly speaking, I may be more lusty now, but really even if I were to really have sex with some Hot chick I wouldn't feel as much pleasure as when I was a more "decent" and balanced individual who was not easily influenced by sensual desires. Its just somehow my mind is hungry for sex, but never satisfied even when "fed" with that.

 

 

Well, frankly speaking my condition is not as bad as it may sound from my post; in fact, I think I am still not in the situation where I masturbate everyday watching porn or so conditioned sexually by porn that I wouldn't get any pleasure when I have to really act that. But still, I am concerned because I know that the compartment of lust grows by reducing that of love (and in fact lust reduces real pleasure as well; think about it). I do not want to be glued to the computer just because I happened to have ended up at a site with an Ad of a semi-naked girl making sensual moves and then moved on to browse more and more (perhaps its curiosity as well). I know I was better before. Even if I ended up in a porn site, I would really get filled with desires (in other words, get an erection). Now I dont really feel as much bodily pleasure and desire after coming across anything sensual in nature, yet my "hunger" to look at it more and more has increased much than before.

 

 

Anyway, my history aside, I would really like some suggestions on how to reduce the influence of lust. I have actually decided to walk the path of celibacy for at least quite some time (may be half a year or one year) so as to again "purify" my mind that is conditioned so much with all the past experiences (of watching porn and fantasizing about sex with strangers). I am sure some kind of meditation would help. But my experience is that if not done in regularity, even meditation actually acts as a catalyst to make my mind more vulnerable to the magnet pull of sexual objects. This if from experience. Often when I have meditated after a long period, I end up getting aroused more easily. But when I have practiced it for quite some time regularly, then it indeed leads to a stronger mind that is not easily influenced by sense and desires. Lately, due to job change and hectic schedule, I have been skipping not only meditation, but also my physical exercises. I am sure this is a major reason for the shift in the strength of my mind in getting enslaved by attachment and desire.

do you practice martial arts? taiji quan is a good choice and after practicing this for sometime you will able to meditate and quite the mind.

[RiverSnake]

Practice meditation. Don't reject and don't embrace your thoughts, simply let go.

[Maddie]

I realize that the last few posts offered good advice in theory, yet did not explain how to "not think about it" , or how to "clear your mind". I had/have been dealing with the same issues as you and let me share with you what I have found that helps a lot.

If you are familiar with the cold draw aka testicle breathing this is extremely helpful with reducing the physical desire for sex. At the same time drawing that energy into your MCO is very helpful in balancing out the emotional/psychological aspects of our sex drive and sexuality.

At first I thought simply reducing the physical drive itself would help, and to a degree it did, which is what I did the cold draw for. What I learned after that is how much of sexuality is not simply a physical craving but linked to emotional/mental issues as well, and that often the various manefestations of these desires are actually clues as to our inner state of energy balance or inbalance.

If I find myself fantasizing about sexual things mostly, as though its in my head and imagination then I have found that, that is an indication that my upper dan tien is low on jing and wants more. I believe that the act of fantasizing about sex (as the upper dan tien is in the realm of visualization, imagination, abstraction) is a way that the upper dan tien feeds itself. On the other hand if I do the cold draw to my upper dan tien in such situations the desire to fantasize about such things diminishes.

If the primary desire is for someone to love us, for compannionship, to love someone else, then this is our middle dan tien showing us that it is deficient. That would explain why when we are love sick it feels as if there is a void in our hearts, because literally there is, as our middle dan tien needs more jing. 99% of the time 99% of people seek to fill this energetic void by finding someone else to love them, and thus project their heart chi into their middle dan tien, filling the void. Again I have found that if I do the cold draw to my middle dan tien when feeling this way, this feeling also diminishes.

If our primary desire is for the physical pleasure sensastions of sex, this could indicate one of two things or both. First it could be an indication that we have an excess of energy in our sexual organs. This is why when we have this feeling we feel as though we have to "release". In contrast to the deficiency symptoms of the upper and middle dan tien, this is an excess condition. It could also be that our lower dan tien is deficient and that we want the jing/chi that comes from sexual intercourse from a partner. In this case one can kill two birds with one stone. You can do the cold draw to the lower dan tien thus not only removing this excess energy from the sexual organs, but also filling up the lower dan tien at the same time, and again diminishing the desire for physical intimacy.

It would also be wise if you have experienced the feeling of lust for a protracted amount of time to do the heart healing sound and inner smile as well, as being overly excited can be harmful to the heart, and also begin the chain reaction of causing you to be overly stimulated as well.

[surfingbudda]

Hey guys, maybe you know the answer to this. I am kinda confused over the concept of jing and ejaculation. Is it that everytime you ejaculate you lose vital jing which is permanently gone and your body will never get back? If this is case, then is it preferable to only ejaculate with the intention of fertilization? Or is like you say, holding the excess sexual energy in too long is not beneficial and can lead to problems in itself, if so is it perfectly healthy, jing and qi wise, to ejaculate say once a month to release the body's built up sexual energy? What does mantak chia recommend, ejaculating say once a month, or to only ejaculate to have children?

[Sloppy Zhang]

I realize that the last few posts offered good advice in theory, yet did not explain how to "not think about it" , or how to "clear your mind".

 

I, for one, did give a suggestion for how to "not think about it"- do something else.

 

What happens if you sit down and say, "I'm not going to think about sex." What is the keyword that you keep repeating? Let's look at it again... "I'm not going to think about sex". That's right- SEX! It'll be on your mind even if you try to not think about it.

 

Do something else. Find your passion, and do it. Learn to play the guitar, for example. Learn some cords, play away.

 

One of the reasons the same thoughts keep popping up, even when you try to meditate, is because those thoughts are probably the only ones you have in your free time. When you broaden the scope of what it is you do during the day, you stop being so focused on just one thing.

 

Now there are ways of dealing with this through meditation and/or willpower, but I highly suggest you do what I've already suggested. It's easier, and most likely will take care of the problem. I find that most people don't have a problem with sex or anything until they are told (usually by whatever spiritual tradition they are following) that it is a problem and they need to stop. Suddenly, they become more focused on sex than they've ever been simply because they have been told to stop!

Edited November 21, 2010 by Sloppy Zhang

[Maddie]

Hey guys, maybe you know the answer to this. I am kinda confused over the concept of jing and ejaculation. Is it that everytime you ejaculate you lose vital jing which is permanently gone and your body will never get back? If this is case, then is it preferable to only ejaculate with the intention of fertilization? Or is like you say, holding the excess sexual energy in too long is not beneficial and can lead to problems in itself, if so is it perfectly healthy, jing and qi wise, to ejaculate say once a month to release the body's built up sexual energy? What does mantak chia recommend, ejaculating say once a month, or to only ejaculate to have children?

 

Well its kind of complicated, cause your body uses jing to make sperm, which is why you don't want to ejaculate too often, and the older you get the less frequently you want to do it. As long as you don't over do it your body can make sperm mostly from post natal jing, or the jing that your body makes from food and air. If you are doing this your body uses a miniumum of pre natal jing to make sperm, which you inherit from your parents. But if you get carried away and ejaculate more than your bodies ability to create post natal jing, then your body dips into its pre natal jing supply and that is when you begin to have negative effects.

As far as retaining jing, if you just hold it and thats it, then it can lead to stagnation eventually. If you retain it with the objective of transforming and transporting it, then you can use this energy for a lot of important inner healing and cultivation.

[Trunk]

.. would be watching porn so often

 

OpenDNS.com

[atena]

For me, so far the most beneficial thing has been doing some basic stretching.

[John Zen]

Answer two questions and I might be able to help you:

 

1) Do you feel like your lust goes away temporarily after masturbation?

2) Do you feel tired after masturbation?

[Ramon25]

If you really dont want to be a man and have a sex drive which is part of being in HEALTHY body, cut off you testicles so that you can get rid of all your testosterone. That will take away your lust!! um for the record sense taoism is about nature, having lust is natural...

[surfingbudda]

Hi Dmattwads,

How exactly does one start transforming and transporting one's jing for healing?

[Maddie]

If you really dont want to be a man and have a sex drive which is part of being in HEALTHY body, cut off you testicles so that you can get rid of all your testosterone. That will take away your lust!! um for the record sense taoism is about nature, having lust is natural...

 

Of course having sexual attraction is natural, what is not so natural is when sex becomes problematic. You don't see animals in nature looking at animal porn, or becoming animal sex addicts. If you really want to use nature as an example you could look at it in a couple of ways. First of all most animals only mate at speific times of the year (mating season). Second a lot of creatures of the male gender die after they mate.... so what does that tell ya?

But since animals usually only mate at specific mating seasons and don't waste their jing, you don't tend to see animals in the wild with cancer and all the health problems we humans have in our society.

[Sloppy Zhang]

Of course having sexual attraction is natural, what is not so natural is when sex becomes problematic. You don't see animals in nature looking at animal porn, or becoming animal sex addicts. If you really want to use nature as an example you could look at it in a couple of ways. First of all most animals only mate at speific times of the year (mating season). Second a lot of creatures of the male gender die after they mate.... so what does that tell ya?

But since animals usually only mate at specific mating seasons and don't waste their jing, you don't tend to see animals in the wild with cancer and all the health problems we humans have in our society.

 

Looking at nature, there's about as much variety in it as there is between humans.... maybe so much so that it's hard to draw a one to one comparison?

[liminal_luke]

For a fascinating discussion of fantasy and personality issues check out "The Erotic Mind" by Jack Morin. Also contains good advice for how to go about creating erotic change.

[Ramon25]

Of course having sexual attraction is natural, what is not so natural is when sex becomes problematic. You don't see animals in nature looking at animal porn, or becoming animal sex addicts. If you really want to use nature as an example you could look at it in a couple of ways. First of all most animals only mate at speific times of the year (mating season). Second a lot of creatures of the male gender die after they mate.... so what does that tell ya?

But since animals usually only mate at specific mating seasons and don't waste their jing, you don't tend to see animals in the wild with cancer and all the health problems we humans have in our society.

 

Well I see what your saying but we are like those animals because the human animal has sex year long and is a very horney little critter. Infact the animals that we are most realted to genetically and socially is the bonobo which is a VERY horney animal. It has orgies all the time, year long, male and male, female and female. There is no distinction. just lots of sex. So the animal analogy doesnt really help here. The issues that he has should be looked at holistcally and not with the guilt he presentig with. There is a disturbance, so why is it there? instead of a practice to abolish it he needs to understand himself and the energy present. He need not feel so bad about having sexual desires which are perfectly natural and are not a spiritual sin in the least.

[goldisheavy]

There is one method that is scary effective. But you must be careful because it's hard to reverse. You think like you want to get rid of lust now, but when you get rid of it, you might want lust back.

 

So first, you have to be clear about why you want less lust. Is it just an arbitrary control-freak thing? Are you a controlling person in general? Is it because you've heard that "all the real Taoists are free from lust" and you decided you want to be a real Taoist? All these things are delusions and you have to be careful if any of these are your motivations.

 

For the vast majority of people it's best to have a normal sex life and not to mess around with it.

 

Now, with all the warnings out of the way, here's how to reduce lust in a very scarily effective manner. Look at porn. When you look at it, focus on the undesirable aspects of the sex objects. For example, notice the pimples, imperfections, the slimy nature of them, imagine that they don't necessarily smell good, and so on. Dwell on the imperfections and negative aspects. Consider all the negative aspects of sex, such as unwanted children, tiredness, having some moral obligations toward your sex partner which can be a burden (kind of like, when you take out a loan, you're obliged to pay it back). Look at all the porn you find attractive and contemplate the negative aspects of everything you see. Contemplate the negative aspects that you can directly observe and also contemplate the negative consequences of sex in general that you know of, which you may not be able to observe directly while watching porn.

 

If you do even a little bit of this practice, your lust will go down. But like I said, be careful. You may not like the result. You may want things back the way they were. If you do, you can reverse the process by doing the same thing except this time contemplate the beautiful and pleasant aspects of sex objects.

 

My personal recommendation: don't tinker with it. Leave it be.

Edited November 22, 2010 by goldisheavy

[Maddie]

Personally I have several reasons for avoiding sex for now. I am one of those that answered in the poll that I am not naturally celibate, but am now for cultivation purposes. For one I am using the potent sexual energy to clear blockages in my MCO, for healing, and the like. Also since my marriage is strained, and I am separated yet still techincally married I don't want to mess around in that realm for now, and even if I were not married right now, yet recently divorced I don't want to go through all the rebound drama that is so typical of people who have recently ended a relationship. I want to rather use this energy to help me to adapt to my new circumstances in a healthy and well adjusted way.

[Ramon25]

Personally I have several reasons for avoiding sex for now. I am one of those that answered in the poll that I am not naturally celibate, but am now for cultivation purposes. For one I am using the potent sexual energy to clear blockages in my MCO, for healing, and the like. Also since my marriage is strained, and I am separated yet still techincally married I don't want to mess around in that realm for now, and even if I were not married right now, yet recently divorced I don't want to go through all the rebound drama that is so typical of people who have recently ended a relationship. I want to rather use this energy to help me to adapt to my new circumstances in a healthy and well adjusted way.

Well thats fine, sexual energy is the libido, the drive for all things really. It can help, but dont strain, either to supress or store. Sexual energy is our most powerful source. If too much stores you go BOOM but is suppose what you are doing is temporary and goal orientated, so goo luck and be careful

[Maddie]

Well thats fine, sexual energy is the libido, the drive for all things really. It can help, but dont strain, either to supress or store. Sexual energy is our most powerful source. If too much stores you go BOOM but is suppose what you are doing is temporary and goal orientated, so goo luck and be careful

 

Thanks, and I don't consider what I am doing as "storage" though. Several of my lower chakras on my MCO are very deficient, and I am using my sexual energy to fill them up so that they function as they should. I consider this more of "maintinece" than storage

[Ramon25]

Thanks, and I don't consider what I am doing as "storage" though. Several of my lower chakras on my MCO are very deficient, and I am using my sexual energy to fill them up so that they function as they should. I consider this more of "maintinece" than storage

In my expirience chackras are not actually energy vortices but metaphors for aspects of life and existence. Either way if they are dificient I would advise to try and look for a deeper cause, either mental or physical for such a defiency. Patching it up may work temporarily but unless the core issue is corrected, whatever that may be, your gonna end in the same place because that the tendency that created it will most likely still be there.

[Maddie]

In my expirience chackras are not actually energy vortices but metaphors for aspects of life and existence. Either way if they are dificient I would advise to try and look for a deeper cause, either mental or physical for such a defiency. Patching it up may work temporarily but unless the core issue is corrected, whatever that may be, your gonna end in the same place because that the tendency that created it will most likely still be there.

 

I agree, and what I have noticed in my experience is that lets say I have a deficiant chakra, or a blockage in an organ or what not. When I get to work on adding energy or clearing the blockage, insight comes with the process, but I do not usually get insight until I deal with the energetic root cause. I know its sort of a chicken or the egg situation, but this is how it seems to work for me. As I add energy to the chakra that is deficient, insight follows and thus I also learn the lesson.

[Ramon25]

I agree, and what I have noticed in my experience is that lets say I have a deficiant chakra, or a blockage in an organ or what not. When I get to work on adding energy or clearing the blockage, insight comes with the process, but I do not usually get insight until I deal with the energetic root cause. I know its sort of a chicken or the egg situation, but this is how it seems to work for me. As I add energy to the chakra that is deficient, insight follows and thus I also learn the lesson.

 

no that makes perfect sense. But not everyone pays attention to the lesson as if the practice alone is enough. sounds good though and again good luck with the process

[hajimesaito]

Thanks for all those replies and taking the discussion further.

 

 

But unfortunately, most of you misunderstood me. I will attempt to explain it more articulately this time. This is my belief - correct me if I am wrong as it this belief is supported by my intuition and instinct - that lust alone is not bad at all. Buddha has himself said that sexual misconduct is demerit and right sex is merit. That means sex when done under the base of love and trust is actually a merit and brings good karma. Lust comes when you randomly develop a great urge - mostly habitually - to look at porn and sexual material to stimulate you sexually. Sex is natural when you get stimulated and then act. But lust is when you try to stimulate yourself even when your body may not want it - lust is more like a urge to feel pleasure. When you get aroused with your partner and have sex, then it is actually a good thing. I do not want to loose this. What I want to loose is the urge to get aroused. This is a state that shows great disconnect between your body and mind. And contrary to popular belief, a lusty person may want to develop great desire or get aroused, but his body may not respond. A normal person will develop desire under appropriate condition (when he is with his partner, and as soon as his mind is filled with desire, his body will respond by getting aroused (erection, hightened senses etc). This shows great integrity between mind and body. A normal person - in fact a great person in today's world! - wouldn't want to habitually go and try to forcefully get aroused.

 

 

It is because of bad experiences or habits or conditioning of mind, I have developed this urge to watch porn and get arousal. Although, frankly speaking, while writing this post, as I am in deep thinking, and aware of what happens, my lusty nature has suddenly subsided. But whatever, it is the balance between mind and body that I want. People should cry when their heart is heavy, they should eat when their stomach is empty, and they should have sex when they are aroused (which in the normal case, they should be only with a trusted partner). But what when the mind wants desire but the body doesn't react? For all I care, I would actually prefer to be a guy who gets straight erection at the sight of an attractive girl; but I would never want to be a person who keeps looking at porn and still gets no satisfaction, proper arousal etc.

 

 

I hope you understood me now.