Practices to reduce or eliminate the influence of lust

[hajimesaito]

I would like to add that what I am feeling right now could be summarized by the analogous saying "the more your un after women, the more they run away from"; only in my case "women" could be substituted for "sexual pleasure". There was a time when if I looked at a hot girl, I would instantly be excited. But at the same time, I my mind was strong enough that despite getting excited I wouldn't be compelled to masturbate or fantasize. I would just forget it and move on. Nowadays if I were to look even at a girl doing pole dance and trying to seduce me, my body wouldn't be excited (and even my mind wouldn't be too desirous). Yet it is in my current state the I tend to pursue anything that should excite me.

 

Getting excited through sexual stimulus is fine for me, but not getting excited by sexual stimulus, and yet more glued to it, is not fine (and this is how I would define being lusty). I don't know what I did in the past couple of months that brought such change in me. Perhaps it might have to do with the facts that I had a gf back then and I am single now. Or that I began smoking (although limited to 2-3 cigs a day) and reduced my physical exercises to a great extent. Also, I used to respect women at that time. For example, if I were to meet a prostitute, instead of getting the feeling to take her to bed desperately (though without any actual arousal)which I would get now, I would actually feel sympathy for her to be reduced to trading sex for money. And seriously, I am not liking all this change.

 

I have observed that when you have a strong mind that is not easily moved by lust, your body would be highly integrated with your mind; and it will react instantly to you mind's desires. However, when you are too lusty, the disconnects grows a lot.

 

I know subconsciously that once I revert back to my previous schedules and habits, my mind might perhaps become the same as it was before - that is strongly immune to sexual influences; and my body and mind would have great integrity. That is why I wanted to ask you bums to suggest me a way that would help me with my celibacy plan, which is to further purify myself of previous bad experiences that have conditioned my mind in a bad way. Of course, you all know how programmable our mind is!

[freeform]

When our jing is depleted we get fixated on the erotic. Further to that our mind tries to distract us from unpleasant feelings and emotions that need to come up with anything pertinent - and if you have depleted jing, sexuality is the easiest option.

 

I'd suggest that the best thing to do would be to stop all masturbation. Begin eating rich, jing-enhancing foods. Rub your kidneys daily till they get warm.

 

When erotic thoughts and compulsions arise, don't try to 'block' them out - notice that these thoughts and impulses have arisen - give them some detached attention. (this means don't get 'involved' in the thought - just notice the thought and watch it as if from a distance... this is like admiring a still lake from the sun lounger - rather than jumping in and getting wet). Once you've noticed yourself having these thoughts and these urges, paid attention to them - as if from a distance - then just allow them to drift away.

 

It sounds to me like there are some emotions that need to be expressed that you've been avoiding. So as you're re-building your jing and letting erotic thoughts go, you will probably notice emotions come up. Don't try to distract yourself, but let them out - you may need to cry, laugh, roar in anger, curl up - whatever it is, allow yourself to fully experience that.

 

This may take a couple of weeks or a couple of months. But it will always take as long as it takes - so don't be concerned. Let us know how it goes.

[joeblast]

a great master once said about thoughts in general...

 

"leave the front door open, leave the back door open, but do not invite them to stay for tea"

 

[Maddie]

Thanks for all those replies and taking the discussion further.

 

 

But unfortunately, most of you misunderstood me. I will attempt to explain it more articulately this time. This is my belief - correct me if I am wrong as it this belief is supported by my intuition and instinct - that lust alone is not bad at all. Buddha has himself said that sexual misconduct is demerit and right sex is merit. That means sex when done under the base of love and trust is actually a merit and brings good karma. Lust comes when you randomly develop a great urge - mostly habitually - to look at porn and sexual material to stimulate you sexually. Sex is natural when you get stimulated and then act. But lust is when you try to stimulate yourself even when your body may not want it - lust is more like a urge to feel pleasure. When you get aroused with your partner and have sex, then it is actually a good thing. I do not want to loose this. What I want to loose is the urge to get aroused. This is a state that shows great disconnect between your body and mind. And contrary to popular belief, a lusty person may want to develop great desire or get aroused, but his body may not respond. A normal person will develop desire under appropriate condition (when he is with his partner, and as soon as his mind is filled with desire, his body will respond by getting aroused (erection, hightened senses etc). This shows great integrity between mind and body. A normal person - in fact a great person in today's world! - wouldn't want to habitually go and try to forcefully get aroused.

 

 

It is because of bad experiences or habits or conditioning of mind, I have developed this urge to watch porn and get arousal. Although, frankly speaking, while writing this post, as I am in deep thinking, and aware of what happens, my lusty nature has suddenly subsided. But whatever, it is the balance between mind and body that I want. People should cry when their heart is heavy, they should eat when their stomach is empty, and they should have sex when they are aroused (which in the normal case, they should be only with a trusted partner). But what when the mind wants desire but the body doesn't react? For all I care, I would actually prefer to be a guy who gets straight erection at the sight of an attractive girl; but I would never want to be a person who keeps looking at porn and still gets no satisfaction, proper arousal etc.

 

 

I hope you understood me now.

 

Actually I did understand your original post which is what my first responce was all about, then I proceeded to digress about myself lol, sorry. I understand your concerns well, and was trying to reply to some of the posters on here who had the "so whats the problem" attitude. Here is the problem with uncontrollable lust, it is an addiction, just like an alcoholic or a smoker. Your body becomes addicted to the hormones that you relase when you get sexually excited, and then has to have its "fix" a lot. That is one of the reasons at the end of my first post I recommended working on the heart meridian because that is where a lot of desire is housed. My acupuncturist gave me a herbal formula to calm my heart meridian when I went to him for a very similar problem. If you wanted to try the herbal approach you could get some Valerian root, or Kava or something like that which calms down your heart. Probably you may have noticed that when you feel lustful and begin to think about it, or look at porn you may have noticed your heart rate goes up. This is the "over excitement" of your heart, which is why the heart healing sound and inner smile as well as something like Valerian will help in the "here and now".

But to get to the root of the problem (the source of what is causing you to get all aroused in the first place) you most likely will have to work on your sacral chakra (which is what I have been donig as of late, and am still doing now for similar reasons). If you do your MCO and/or cold draw you may notice that it is very hard to move the energy past your sacrum, and for good reason, because I think a large portion of the population, and especially the male population have sacral chakra blockages. Since the sacral chakra is the chakra related to sexuality, this would be the most probable one to work on. There have been many times that I may spend an hour trying to get my jing chi through my sacrum and it just does not happen. That is ok for as long as that energy is focused in my sacrum it is working on opening that blockage, and I have noticed change. Now of course the change is gradual and it won't just happen overnight, but it does happen if you are consistant and persistant.

Our sacral chakra (which lies with in the lower dan tien area) is suppose to help us enjoy the goodness of life, relate to people, have a healthy sexuality ect... When there is a blockage there, these things don't happen. Instead rather than enjoying the goodness of life we either become severely ascetic and think the good things of life are bad and avoid them (blockage). Or we can think of nothing else than things that make us feel good and we lean towards hedonism (blockage of the other polarity). If both polarities are blocked we may swing back and forth from both extremes or feel them at the same time such as wanting pleasure a lot, yet feeling bad about it at the same time. Simply thinking about this problem or understanding it is not enough. We have to deal with the energy blockage, and clear it out, and then the though patterns that we want will naturally follow.

 

*edit:

P.S. the homeopathic remedy "Phosporus" is very helpful for this problem as well.

 

You also might want to check out the Bach flower remedyies

 

cherry plum which helps with self control

http://www.anandaapothecary.com/english/cherry-plumb-flower-essence.html

 

and/or

 

white chestnut which helps with unwanted thoughts

http://www.anandaapothecary.com/english/white-chestnut-flower-essence.html

Edited November 22, 2010 by dmattwads

[dwai]

I am recently being gripped more and more by the influence and attachment of lust. Consciously I always realize it strongly within my mind that imagining the girl sitting on the bench in a park is with me on bed and doing "weird" things is not only useless and fruitless, but also detrimental for my mental and emotional health as well as an obstruction on the way to Tao. So please suggest me some techniques, practices, meditations, methods or whatever that will allow me to either eliminate or reduce the growing force of lust in my mind.

 

I want to go back to the days when I wouldn't be lusty after checking out random chicks or would be watching porn so often. Frankly speaking, I may be more lusty now, but really even if I were to really have sex with some Hot chick I wouldn't feel as much pleasure as when I was a more "decent" and balanced individual who was not easily influenced by sensual desires. Its just somehow my mind is hungry for sex, but never satisfied even when "fed" with that.

 

 

Well, frankly speaking my condition is not as bad as it may sound from my post; in fact, I think I am still not in the situation where I masturbate everyday watching porn or so conditioned sexually by porn that I wouldn't get any pleasure when I have to really act that. But still, I am concerned because I know that the compartment of lust grows by reducing that of love (and in fact lust reduces real pleasure as well; think about it). I do not want to be glued to the computer just because I happened to have ended up at a site with an Ad of a semi-naked girl making sensual moves and then moved on to browse more and more (perhaps its curiosity as well). I know I was better before. Even if I ended up in a porn site, I would really get filled with desires (in other words, get an erection). Now I dont really feel as much bodily pleasure and desire after coming across anything sensual in nature, yet my "hunger" to look at it more and more has increased much than before.

 

 

Anyway, my history aside, I would really like some suggestions on how to reduce the influence of lust. I have actually decided to walk the path of celibacy for at least quite some time (may be half a year or one year) so as to again "purify" my mind that is conditioned so much with all the past experiences (of watching porn and fantasizing about sex with strangers). I am sure some kind of meditation would help. But my experience is that if not done in regularity, even meditation actually acts as a catalyst to make my mind more vulnerable to the magnet pull of sexual objects. This if from experience. Often when I have meditated after a long period, I end up getting aroused more easily. But when I have practiced it for quite some time regularly, then it indeed leads to a stronger mind that is not easily influenced by sense and desires. Lately, due to job change and hectic schedule, I have been skipping not only meditation, but also my physical exercises. I am sure this is a major reason for the shift in the strength of my mind in getting enslaved by attachment and desire.

 

 

I have found that this (or other sticky things) in our mind is an unresolved "issue" (or series of issues) that need to be dissolved. I refer to Bruce Frantzis' work to help with a grounding in meditation techniques (among others) and I have been plagued by similar "things" and the best way to deal with them, I found is to simply sit and observe them...not judge, not blame myself, not try and force myself to "not" fixate on them but simply sit and observe them. Once we do that, it seems that they lose their power (since it is the fixation via feelings of self-recrimination, guilt, etc) that seem to give them their power.

 

At the end of the day, sex is a very basic and primal instinct that we have and it is not healthy to repress these. But the right balance needs to be attained (not saying that I've been completely successful in it, but I'm trying and the technique I mentioned seems to work to a degree)...the important maxim being "Not too much...not too little".

 

Good Luck...

 

 

[goldisheavy]

Sex is natural when you get stimulated and then act. But lust is when you try to stimulate yourself even when your body may not want it - lust is more like a urge to feel pleasure.

 

I think I see what you're saying here. It's like you go to a restaurant and it serves olives, eggs, potatoes and cabbage. You love potatoes, you're indifferent to eggs and you can't stand olives and cabbage. You wish the restaurant would only serve potatoes and nothing else, right? The answer to this is to broaden your taste. Learn to enjoy olives! Then when it's time to eat olives, you won't be wishing for potatoes.

 

Look here. Suppose there is a painting that's made of different color paints, but you only like yellow and hate every other color. If the painting was made only from your favorite color, it would be monochrome. So insisting on always getting your favorite thing is like insisting on blindness, do you see?

 

All the colors belong to your visual field. All sense objects belong to your field of cognition. All meat is the best.

 

I think if you consider this issue from time to time, you'll feel better.

 

It is because of bad experiences or habits or conditioning of mind, I have developed this urge to watch porn and get arousal.

 

Everything is porn. Look outside the window for nature porn. Human are the only animals who hide their true shapes. The disease is the hiding. Seeing true form is not sickness. Don't fall prey to conventional modes of thinking on this issue. But you live in convention. So exercise moderation. Everything is OK in moderation. Just don't overdo it. Do not worry too much.

 

But what when the mind wants desire but the body doesn't react?

 

The body and mind are one. If you think your mind wants desire but your body doesn't react, your mind is simply confused. Somewhere you're lying to yourself. Perhaps you actually don't desire anything, but society has taught you that you should desire something. Or vice versa. Either way there is a conflict between your real desires and what you think you should be desiring. Return to your true nature without completely breaking from convention. This is what moderation is about.

 

but I would never want to be a person who keeps looking at porn and still gets no satisfaction, proper arousal etc.

 

It's a natural fear. But you should take heart. Why is that? Because at the ultimate level everything happens as you intend. Just relax and don't get confused between what you actually want and what people say you should want. You should trust yourself! If you feel like you need rest from sexual excitation, it's OK! You don't always have to be running around horny. At the same time, if you fear your sexual function is gone just because you are at rest, that's an idle fear. Nothing is created, nothing is destroyed. Your abilities can at best be put to sleep, but they can't be annihilated. So don't worry too much. You won't lose anything you actually care about if you don't panic.

[Non]

Well thats fine, sexual energy is the libido, the drive for all things really. It can help, but dont strain, either to supress or store. Sexual energy is our most powerful source. If too much stores you go BOOM but is suppose what you are doing is temporary and goal orientated, so goo luck and be careful

 

Yea actually, I've noticed that if you can practice the cool draw, and the 6th tibetan rite (as I've been doing for a month), it'll be easier. Once you do this, then you can just stop focusing on sex so much that it becomes normal, and then, when the sexual urge arises, it's not as draining on the system, or it's just a normal thing. But it doesn't really build up. It's more like, the energy builds up but then you can direct the energy upwards, and the urge will eventually subside.

 

I've noticed ever since practicing these two there is LESS of a blockage in my lower chakras, my focus is not stuck on them. It seems that once you stop having those "contractions" that are related with ejaculatory sex or orgasm then the energy there stops being blocked so much. Each time it contracts, even if it was not ejaculatory it just builds energy up there and becomes stagnant. Then it will drain energy for some time after that, maybe even days or weeks, depending on your level...

 

I find that I can appreciate women more for their character and inner beauty, and not look at them with the intent to pleasure only myself, at their expense.

 

I think I remember dmattwads saying something that women seem to be more attracted to the males with more sexual agitation and that when a man transmutes his energy they stop being so attracted to him. That may be true, if you're like extreme. But if you look at drewhempel, he's been at it for a while and women seem to like him.

 

I've actually noticed that women are more attracted to me after practicing the 6th rite and the cool draw.

 

The only women who are not, are sadly the women who they themselves equate sexual agitation as sexuality. They expect that if a man is not sexually agitated around her that he is either unmanly or is disinterested because she is addicted or something else. The women who become attracted to me then nowadays are more mature, and they can sense maturity in me. BUt it only comes after you've stopped masturbating for a while, and you gain CONTROL of your sexuality at least somewhat. You transcend it. Your urge might still be there from time to time but you dont become a slave to it. Many times women like a man who is in control of their sexuality. Even the women who weren't interested in you before because they expected you to be hypersexual might look at you with some curiosity. Some of them might pick it up from you, ie the practice of conservation.

 

You can use it whenever you wish, in a conscious manner.

 

Your head is more clear and even so, sex itself, seems more pure and innocent. Sexuality seems more and more beautiful, than the raunchiness that you see in porn or animalistic lust that is tied to abusiveness, violence and fear-based competition.

Edited November 22, 2010 by Non

[RyanO]

When our jing is depleted we get fixated on the erotic. Further to that our mind tries to distract us from unpleasant feelings and emotions that need to come up with anything pertinent - and if you have depleted jing, sexuality is the easiest option.

 

I'd suggest that the best thing to do would be to stop all masturbation. Begin eating rich, jing-enhancing foods. Rub your kidneys daily till they get warm.

 

When erotic thoughts and compulsions arise, don't try to 'block' them out - notice that these thoughts and impulses have arisen - give them some detached attention. (this means don't get 'involved' in the thought - just notice the thought and watch it as if from a distance... this is like admiring a still lake from the sun lounger - rather than jumping in and getting wet). Once you've noticed yourself having these thoughts and these urges, paid attention to them - as if from a distance - then just allow them to drift away.

 

It sounds to me like there are some emotions that need to be expressed that you've been avoiding. So as you're re-building your jing and letting erotic thoughts go, you will probably notice emotions come up. Don't try to distract yourself, but let them out - you may need to cry, laugh, roar in anger, curl up - whatever it is, allow yourself to fully experience that.

 

This may take a couple of weeks or a couple of months. But it will always take as long as it takes - so don't be concerned. Let us know how it goes.

 

Repeated for truth. Getting into the observer mode and just watching is very beneficial. It helps to have a regular meditation practice as this takes skill. I like the Inner Smile approach to becoming the observer. For more check out Michael Winn's ebook on the Inner Smile at http://www.healingtaousa.com/

 

Also you can check an article I wrote about a technique I learned from his Sexual Vitality Qigong called Deep Earth Pulsing which gets us in touch with Earth Jing and is very satisfying: http://www.thetaobums.com/index.php?/topic/14041-making-love-with-the-earth/

[fiveelementtao]

I would really like some suggestions on how to reduce the influence of lust.

 

there is nothing "impure" about being a young man and having a strong sex drive. If you are not living in a monastery or in a cave, you will have very normal, very healthy attraction to women. As one who traveled the same path you are now, (self-imposed celibacy for 6 and 1/2 years!) If I had it to over again, I would have simply enjoyed finding a woman to share my spirituality (and sexuality with). IME and IMO, berating yourself for "impure" thoughts drains far more of your energy than enjoying the love of a good woman. Being a married man, I enjoy a healthy sex life and my energy is far stronger than ever. If you have a truly good energy practice and a good teacher, (not working solo from any "taoist" book off the shelf) there is no need to force yourself into celibacy. Celibacy is like anything else in Tao. If it comes naturally, embrace it. If it is forced, it causes imbalance. Find the balance in the natural way of living for you. If you are burning with lust, the natural way to live is find a partner to grow spiritually with... Find a good teacher and live a normal life and you will be fine....

my .02

Mike

[Maddie]

Last night I had mentioned that as I add energy to the problem chakra area that insight follows. Well lo and behold no sooner had I said that then today I as I spent a lot of time doing my cold draw to my sacral and solar plexus chakras that I had somewhat of an epiphany. I realized to day that a lot of my issues with sex n stuff have to do with guilt and shame about it. Its like the added energy there causes the gunk to bubble to the surface and help me to realize what I had sort of been in denial about up to this point. Why I would feel this way I'm not certain about, but I was raised by a mother who has a very negative attitude about such things, and so does my wife so for whats its worth I'm sure that has had an effect upon me.

 

*edit:

 

A lot of sources I have found say that the problem emotion of the sacral chakra is guilt, and the problem emotion of the solar plexus is shame, both of which I think are relevant here.

Edited November 23, 2010 by dmattwads

[Listener]

I didn't choose celibacy. Celibacy chose me. That's not really true, but that's how it often seems.

 

I started looking at pornography regularly in my early teens, and by by 23, right after I graduated college, I was spending several hours everyday looking at porn. Most of the time I wasn't even sexually excited. I was just looking for a while, then downloading, then repeating. I consider that time the low point of my life.

 

I would prefer not to look at porn at all, but I still do occasionally.

 

For me the problem is the fantasizing, which I do everyday, and have not been able to stop.

[Maddie]

I didn't choose celibacy. Celibacy chose me. That's not really true, but that's how it often seems.

 

I started looking at pornography regularly in my early teens, and by by 23, right after I graduated college, I was spending several hours everyday looking at porn. Most of the time I wasn't even sexually excited. I was just looking for a while, then downloading, then repeating. I consider that time the low point of my life.

 

I would prefer not to look at porn at all, but I still do occasionally.

 

For me the problem is the fantasizing, which I do everyday, and have not been able to stop.

 

This has been something I have dealt with too. Several years ago I went through my porn stage, but that gradually gave way to simply fantasising, which isn't really any better, just a different medium (one is a computer screen/movie/ect.. the other is your mind). What I have found to be very helpful is doing the cold draw to my sacral chakra (which is about sex) and my upper dan tien/ third eye (which is about visualization). Not only does the jing added to these area clear out blockages that are causing this problem, but doing the cold draw also removes energy from the sex organs which reduces desire as well.

[fiveelementtao]

I didn't choose celibacy. Celibacy chose me. That's not really true, but that's how it often seems.

 

I started looking at pornography regularly in my early teens, and by by 23, right after I graduated college, I was spending several hours everyday looking at porn. Most of the time I wasn't even sexually excited. I was just looking for a while, then downloading, then repeating. I consider that time the low point of my life.

 

I would prefer not to look at porn at all, but I still do occasionally.

 

For me the problem is the fantasizing, which I do everyday, and have not been able to stop.

I'm confused. Why are the only choices either porn or celibacy? what about a healthy sex life with a real person? From what you have said, porn and celibacy seem to be a way of isolating and denying some underlying intimacy issues. If so, it is probably unlikely that further isolation will cure the real issue. And you probably won't be able to solve it alone. It sounds to me like getting advice from a counselor would be helpful... from what I have read, it sounds like the real issue is isolation and fear of intimacy, not sex...

[Listener]

Of course I'd prefer a healthy sex life with a real person. That's what I've always wanted. But you are correct, I'm also terrified of intimacy.

 

I've come a long way but during my teens especially, sexuality was something deeply embarrassing and humiliating. Porn was essentially the only option, as any public expressions of sexuality was out of the question.

 

I don't believe people can be categorized and systematized the way psychologists would like to think, but I find that I can identify with the symptoms of Avoidant Personality Disorder, which at it's heart is a fear of rejection.

[Aaron]

There is nothing wrong with lust. It's not sinful and it harms no one, including yourself. Everyone in their lifetime experiences lust and men experience it quite often. Lust is what keeps the human race going.

 

 

I would suggest that you do this... examine whether or not you're really hurting someone or yourself. If not, then don't worry about it so much. Fantasies are natural and if you say they're not then you're calling every thirteen year old boy in the world unnatural. Stop allowing others to dictate right and wrong for you. Man up and make the decision for yourself.

 

Aaron

[Non]

I'm confused. Why are the only choices either porn or celibacy? what about a healthy sex life with a real person? From what you have said, porn and celibacy seem to be a way of isolating and denying some underlying intimacy issues. If so, it is probably unlikely that further isolation will cure the real issue. And you probably won't be able to solve it alone. It sounds to me like getting advice from a counselor would be helpful... from what I have read, it sounds like the real issue is isolation and fear of intimacy, not sex...

 

 

 

According to ayurveda and the concepts of the gunas, there is sattvic, tamasic, and rajasic. Perhaps what you view as normal is 'rajasic', and that's very common for people to think. There's nothing "wrong" but I don't know if I would call it ideal, at least for me. Really it depends on the path you are taking. To each his/her own.

 

Though I found the rajasic path to be quite chaotic and violent. So I choose sattvic path.

 

Though some have degrees on what is rajasic and what is sattvic for them, for their constitution that is. Some people need a little spice to be "sattvic" where-as others not. Also, tantra is kind of about transcending levels.. the whole categories of sattva in the sattvic diet at least is only for the person who practice bakti yoga.

 

Mantak Chia's sex practices are rajasic. Neo-tantra and karezza is sattvic. And the mixing of rajas with sattvas makes well, tamas.

Edited November 25, 2010 by Non

[Maddie]

According to ayurveda and the concepts of the gunas, there is sattvic, tamasic, and rajasic. Perhaps what you view as normal is 'rajasic', and that's very common for people to think. There's nothing "wrong" but I don't know if I would call it ideal, at least for me. Really it depends on the path you are taking. To each his/her own.

 

Though I found the rajasic path to be quite chaotic and violent. So I choose sattvic path.

 

Though some have degrees on what is rajasic and what is sattvic for them, for their constitution that is. Some people need a little spice to be "sattvic" where-as others not. Also, tantra is kind of about transcending levels.. the whole categories of sattva in the sattvic diet at least is only for the person who practice bakti yoga.

 

Mantak Chia's sex practices are rajasic. Neo-tantra and karezza is sattvic. And the mixing of rajas with sattvas makes well, tamas.

 

Could you elaborate on these paths a little more, it sounds interesting I'm just not familiar with them? I think in the west we get too dualistic, as in either this is the right way OR this is. Instead I think one way is good for this, another way is good for that, depending upon your goals and what you want to accomplish. I agree the celibacy in and of itself is not the cure for a porn addiction, but neither is indulging in it. To say this or that is "normal" means that something else is not normal, but who is defining what is normal and what is not? Monks are celibate for a reason. To be honest I don't know for sure what all those reasons are, but I believe one of them is so that they can harness that sexual energy for other spiritual purposes. I don't think they do it because they think sex is "sinful" but rather they have other goals, and this is a means to an end. Of course if you want to have a "normal" sex life with a woman that is fine, but if on the other hand someone else decides that celibacy would better serve their purposes, then I don't think that can be said to be abnormal either.

[fiveelementtao]

Of course I'd prefer a healthy sex life with a real person. That's what I've always wanted. But you are correct, I'm also terrified of intimacy.

 

I've come a long way but during my teens especially, sexuality was something deeply embarrassing and humiliating. Porn was essentially the only option, as any public expressions of sexuality was out of the question.

 

I don't believe people can be categorized and systematized the way psychologists would like to think, but I find that I can identify with the symptoms of Avoidant Personality Disorder, which at it's heart is a fear of rejection.

I'm sorry if I inadvertently minimized your situation. I do not know all the particulars and it is certainly understandable and necessary to be single and celibate sometimes. And it is admirable that you have been as brave as you seem to be in facing your issues. For me, I have had (and still have) some personal issues that I have had to face (and still face). Speaking for myself, I am sometimes unable to resolve some of these issues by myself. I have been able to make significant progress with my personal and emotional issues with the help of an objective counselor or mentor. The trick is finding someone trustworthy. I have been lucky that I have been persistent and found counselors and mentors I trust. I also have found that alot of counselors are not so good. For me, I had to keep looking until I found ones that I felt safe with.

[TheTaoBum]

I am recently being gripped more and more by the influence and attachment of lust. Consciously I always realize it strongly within my mind that imagining the girl sitting on the bench in a park is with me on bed and doing "weird" things is not only useless and fruitless, but also detrimental for my mental and emotional health as well as an obstruction on the way to Tao. So please suggest me some techniques, practices, meditations, methods or whatever that will allow me to either eliminate or reduce the growing force of lust in my mind.

 

I want to go back to the days when I wouldn't be lusty after checking out random chicks or would be watching porn so often. Frankly speaking, I may be more lusty now, but really even if I were to really have sex with some Hot chick I wouldn't feel as much pleasure as when I was a more "decent" and balanced individual who was not easily influenced by sensual desires. Its just somehow my mind is hungry for sex, but never satisfied even when "fed" with that.

 

 

Well, frankly speaking my condition is not as bad as it may sound from my post; in fact, I think I am still not in the situation where I masturbate everyday watching porn or so conditioned sexually by porn that I wouldn't get any pleasure when I have to really act that. But still, I am concerned because I know that the compartment of lust grows by reducing that of love (and in fact lust reduces real pleasure as well; think about it). I do not want to be glued to the computer just because I happened to have ended up at a site with an Ad of a semi-naked girl making sensual moves and then moved on to browse more and more (perhaps its curiosity as well). I know I was better before. Even if I ended up in a porn site, I would really get filled with desires (in other words, get an erection). Now I dont really feel as much bodily pleasure and desire after coming across anything sensual in nature, yet my "hunger" to look at it more and more has increased much than before.

 

 

Anyway, my history aside, I would really like some suggestions on how to reduce the influence of lust. I have actually decided to walk the path of celibacy for at least quite some time (may be half a year or one year) so as to again "purify" my mind that is conditioned so much with all the past experiences (of watching porn and fantasizing about sex with strangers). I am sure some kind of meditation would help. But my experience is that if not done in regularity, even meditation actually acts as a catalyst to make my mind more vulnerable to the magnet pull of sexual objects. This if from experience. Often when I have meditated after a long period, I end up getting aroused more easily. But when I have practiced it for quite some time regularly, then it indeed leads to a stronger mind that is not easily influenced by sense and desires. Lately, due to job change and hectic schedule, I have been skipping not only meditation, but also my physical exercises. I am sure this is a major reason for the shift in the strength of my mind in getting enslaved by attachment and desire.

 

This has been one of the greatest challenges for any serious cultivator. The spirit of Lust is said to be one of the hardest to rid oneself of if allowed to take hold,and rightly so.

 

The best thing is to try & wipe any and all thoughts of sex the moment they arise. Nocturnal emissions(not saying you experience them) are usually the result of a sexually active mind btw. Ceasing any & all thoughts about sex will cure any of these problems 100%

 

Thanks.

[fiveelementtao]

According to ayurveda and the concepts of the gunas, there is sattvic, tamasic, and rajasic. Perhaps what you view as normal is 'rajasic', and that's very common for people to think. There's nothing "wrong" but I don't know if I would call it ideal, at least for me. Really it depends on the path you are taking. To each his/her own.

 

Though I found the rajasic path to be quite chaotic and violent. So I choose sattvic path.

 

Though some have degrees on what is rajasic and what is sattvic for them, for their constitution that is. Some people need a little spice to be "sattvic" where-as others not. Also, tantra is kind of about transcending levels.. the whole categories of sattva in the sattvic diet at least is only for the person who practice bakti yoga.

 

Mantak Chia's sex practices are rajasic. Neo-tantra and karezza is sattvic. And the mixing of rajas with sattvas makes well, tamas.

Non, I have no idea how that pertains to my response that you are quoting... I consider rajas, tamas and sattva as all being normal. If what you are saying is that you believe that celibacy is what is normal for you,...Ok... What I am saying is this is a taoist forum. Taoist celibacy is not about self-denial or escapism. It is not Tao to suppress feelings or emotions or desires. Celibacy is difficult even in ideal circumstances. The tendency that I have seen on this forum for young men to seek celibacy out of fear of intimacy or fear of "losing power" has nothing to do with taoist celibacy. A true taoist celibate is comfortable either way. If one feels the NEED to be celibate for whatever reason, that is an indication of other issues that need to be addressed. I have found that much of the talk of celibacy on this forum has the distinct odor of addiction and therefore will only cause further imbalance. In any case, Non, you and I have gone down this road before. I do not think anything I say will change your mind. Good luck to you, my friend... whatever your choice...

[Non]

Non, I have no idea how that pertains to my response that you are quoting... I consider rajas, tamas and sattva as all being normal. If what you are saying is that you believe that celibacy is what is normal for you,...Ok... What I am saying is this is a taoist forum. Taoist celibacy is not about self-denial or escapism. It is not Tao to suppress feelings or emotions or desires. Celibacy is difficult even in ideal circumstances. The tendency that I have seen on this forum for young men to seek celibacy out of fear of intimacy or fear of "losing power" has nothing to do with taoist celibacy. A true taoist celibate is comfortable either way. If one feels the NEED to be celibate for whatever reason, that is an indication of other issues that need to be addressed. I have found that much of the talk of celibacy on this forum has the distinct odor of addiction and therefore will only cause further imbalance. In any case, Non, you and I have gone down this road before. I do not think anything I say will change your mind. Good luck to you, my friend... whatever your choice...

 

I was referring to the fact that whatever is normal is really what I consider to be extreme, or I view it as being hypersexual, in a rajas way. It is what's most common in the world today, especially in the west. Of course I didn't say there's anything "wrong" with it, it's just another path. It's just not ideal for me.

 

I didn't say that sex was wrong. I just think the way people go about it is less than ideal. The most common way anyway.

 

For one it leads to infidelity in relationships, and just chaotic patterns in relationships.

 

I thought daoists students would know about this already. Passion and lust makes way for instability and chaos. Entropy.

 

Then again some people hold on to passion and lust as if some is necessary to live an ideal life, or that it should be present in one's life. Then there is the other school that thinks lust is not good at all, for lust is actually in imbalance in sexuality. All or nothing. Lust and is simply irritation, longing, fear-based. Buddhists wanted to rid of this when getting rid of desire is being spoken of. It's the result of an an erratic dopamine cycle, that becomes active due to excessive pleasure becoming a habit or an attachment. Excessive pleasure done out of habit or attachment. leads to addiction symptoms.

 

I guess I would fall in between. Anyway, it's all semantics right?

 

Some just define lust in different ways. For some, they define lust with negative connotations, ie in the negative context like above. One in which there it leads to chaos and instability. Another would define lust with a neutral context, it all depends on how lust is used, etc.

 

I personally don't know if all lust leads to chaos and instability and if it just depends on whether the person uses or abuses it. Whether it's rajasic, or whatever.

 

I just know that at some point lust can lead to instability and chaos. This is why people have developed methods to transmute or suppress their sexuality. Some think it's just only preserving jing. Do you really think it's only about that?

 

Just think of the consequences of becoming overheated, hypersexual. The real life effects, ie dopamine cycling, the happiness trap and how it actually burns the organs and creates a sense of irritation/longing/pain and fear. If romance is based on such passion, and in the West it's All about romance only and not companionship in a slightest bit only for married couples, and only to be overtaken by Passion and Lust such that marriages will indefinitely end after 4 years at most, then are all romantic relationships based on this longing/pain and fear?

 

Maybe it's only "normal" and "right" in certain amounts to you because in the West it's part of the established image of the the Lifestyle?

 

BUt at the risk of being too extreme and suppressive, ok I'll say that it's probably that lust and passion is ok, only in the "proper" amounts and not in excess. Even if lust and passion has it's consequences.

Edited November 25, 2010 by Non

[Non]

At first you will most likely experience feelings like feeling castrated.

 

I know.. I felt incredible urges, and they it was physical irritation even while the mental was not even thinking of sex. Causing spermathorrea, or a feeling that my organs were turning themselves inside out lol.

 

It might also help to consider one's diet as being one of the contributers to waking up of this "passion/lust"/irritation.

 

Certain foods cause an irritation in the groin moreso than others. When you see that perhaps it's just a cycle of irritation caused in the groin area and that it might actually have to do with energy that is actually being utilized in the process of digestion, or regulation of the body, it might not cause as much for you.

 

The organs have been sensitized such that there are a lot of dopamine receptors down there. Your penis is addicted. The body is addicted, to sex. Even if the mind isn't. It would need desensitization. When you come to realize that that energy is actually probably energy that can be the same energy that participates in the regulatory function of the body, which has simply traveled downwards and 'awakened' the sexual organs, filling it with blood, it may become easier for you to see it as just that.

 

Your mind might try to justify it as being a need to ejaculate, or to have sex, whatever. If you are seriously on the path though of conservation (not celibacy), or celibacy, and want to achieve control over the organ you'll see that the energy can be used in the regulatory functions of the body, and perhaps even should be rightly so.

Edited November 25, 2010 by Non

[Non]

I think it should be stated again that I don't choose celibacy. I simply am.

 

But when I say celibacy, I mean complete, as in no masturbation either. The only way to manage that is to avoid sexual thought or rather change focus. Until a lot of my "stuck" sexual energy at the base becomes converted to the higher chakras.

 

To me masturbation is

no equivalent with dual cultivation. It is solely focused on the external, down and out focus and only leads to congestion if you try to cultivate with it. There are many reasons for this but it's a touchy subject so I wont go there.. So the only way to handle being sexless, is to stop masturbating altogether. The only way to stop masturbating without consequences of burning up the sex organs and becoming repressed, etc. is to transmute and that means avoiding/changing focus from sexual thoughts to something more productive until either I have enough jing, or sexual energy becomes converted to something more managable. Even if I would have a partner, I would not masturbate. Even if you have a partner practice moderation.

 

But by most standards in the West excessiveness means moderation.

Edited November 25, 2010 by Non

[Ryan Randolph]

Wow, this is an incredible post, and I have to commend hajimesaito (and all other who posted) for having the awareness to realize the dynamic that is taking place with regards to porn and mind/body connection.

 

I have been contemplating this for the past several years and have made some great discoveries and found some powerful concepts and techniques to transform lust into sexual drive and sexual love.

 

The most powerful technique that I have used specifically for lust is called the Releasing Technique, and its similar to what a few others here have recommended.

 

The Releasing Technique

 

Do this technique whenever you feel a "gut-level" pull to watch porn, an unpleasant hunger to have sex, or feel frustrated about not getting sex.

 

Step 1. Set aside 20 minute alone, and sit in a comfortable chair

Step 2. Close your eyes, place your hands on you legs with palms up (or whatever is comfortable)

Step 3. Focus on the feeling of lust in your body. Become extremely curious about it: Where do you feel it? What is it doing? How would you describe it.

 

For example, when I did this for the issue of lust for money, I felt a pulling sensation in my solar plexus/stomach area. It felt like I was trying to "get" or "suck in", as if I was flexing my stomach to try to get fed.

 

Step 4. Let go of all thoughts that arise, just let them pass by. Continually re-focus on the feeling and sensation of this particular issue. Also, continually bypass the descriptive wording and go straight to the experience.

 

For example, "I feel neediness", ok so what is neediness, "it feels like pulling", ok what is pulling, "well its a tensing in my stomach", ok what is a tensing in my stomach "well its this tight sensation"...keep doing this until you have no more words and are instead directly focused on the experience.

 

Step 5. Maintain this relaxed focus for as long as you can, until all the emotion is dissipated.

 

All emotion is limited.

It is energy that is stuck in the body. By feeling it consciously, we are processing it.

 

What most of us do is, as soon as we feel a negative emotion is we freak out and try to ignore it, suppress it, or distract ourself. The emotion just gets lodged into one or more of our organs and causes problems later.

Step 6. Allow all feelings/sensations/emotions related to this to arise. If you are up to it, you can even say "Bring it on! Give me all you got! I want to feel it all." Don't get stuck on any thoughts, just keep re-focusing on the feelings in your body.

 

It may feel stupid "Oh I am just feeling this damn feeling and nothing is happening, this is pointless".

 

No, you are processing all the energy, and as you do it is being re-distributed to the rest of your body and re-establishing balance.

 

It may take 20 minutes, it may take 90 minutes, but it will work.

 

You may have to repeat this process a couple of times to fully release it all. It will release lust.

 

Not only that, it will free up that energy for you to do other things, productive things like repairing other organs, digesting food, producing sexual hormones, etc.

 

There are so many other techniques, ideas, concepts that I could really write about much more (I already have 6 hours of video that I am recording for an upcoming training course called "Sexual Mind Mastery").

 

Basically, habitually masturbating to porn is a psychological addiction. (This is one expression of lust).

 

It splits the mind and body, and severs the neural-wiring between the brain and the genitals, resulting in a "desensitization" effect in which:

more porn = harder to get aroused + increased craving for porn.

 

Eventually, you could have a hot naked woman dancing on your lap and have ZERO arousal (this is what happened to me).

 

I could go much more in depth but this should help for now. Practice the exercise and let me know how it goes. I can give you a second exercise if you want. Also, let me know what is your biggest sticking point/challenge.

 

Just the other day, I was at a halloween party and saw this young woman in a very hot costume. I felt a tingling sexual arousal jolting me in my genitals and I felt very aroused (yet I did not feel any neediness, I felt fulfilled at the same time, it was a beautiful and amazing feeling).

 

It was a feeling that I had not felt since being a teenager, and in that moment I could see how all the practice had been successful at restoring my mind to a healthy sexual balance.

 

Hope this helps,

 

Ryan

 

Oh and P.S. I have written a free eBook based on Taoist principles that helps you accomplish this mind/body restoration process relating to porn. It's called Revive Your Sex Drive: The Yang Man's Guide to Increased Sexual Energy, Power, & Confidence. You can download it here http://www.ReviveYourSexDrive.com (it does require a name an email to access).

Edited December 3, 2010 by Ryan Randolph

[sean]

Great to see you sharing here Ryan!

 

To any bums who are frustrated with intense/chaotic/painful lust energies, sexual compulsions, e.g., masturbation/porn addiction, I recommend you check out Ryan's work and even consider connecting with him for a one-on-one. I've watched him focus more and more deeply on effective solutions regarding these issues for a number of years now, and he personally helped me with some emotional release work that was quite profound. I've also spent some time with him in Costa Rica and he's a great guy, fantastic energy and presence and very much on the path.

 

Sean