how do humans perceive another person's suffernig?

[jenn992]

This is a question ive been wondering about..as its very confusing...as I've been a victim, suffering in various circumstances or any...one of the few things i've noticed...or several aer this...

 

no one has any compassion for your suffering...though it is extreme..or for another person's extreme suffering...no one has offered to help in simple ways, even had an ounce of sympathy or..even any feeling

towards it..people who you expect would--family, friends, people who may know you...people seem to be very emotionless to another person's horrible suffering..(this is for really bad suffering)....is there a reason for this? do humans just generally not care for another person's suffering or, are they also happy about it..are they happy when they see someone down, in tears, struggling, tortured...and instead want to keep them down or even use their position of helplessness to take advantage of them?

i can see predators doing that...saying..oh this person is suffering...we can use them..but since ive witnessed most people do this...is this just a common trait of people? it doesnt seem like a 'human' trait but that of a monster or predator...

 

people who you expect to help you out..instead of helping you...either turn away, or help out your abuser or the abusers and in turn...even praise the abusers..ive only witnessed...abusers, psychopaths..being praised, for having 'control or power' over their victim, rather than any sympathy for the poor victim...ive witnessed people doing nothing to help the victim but just run away from them or make their situation even worse for them... and these are people who are living comfortable decent lives with no major problems....

 

when a person is suffering...instead of helping the extreme suffering person, the other people use that person or try to for their own benefit..maybe males for sexual or they literally will try to use that person..while they are down rather than help them while claiming they want to help them...now these people wont do it to their own family members...or others...but maybe just a victim or someone else who needs help..

 

do humans perceive another person's suffering as a way of benefitting themselves...helping themselves to feel better...use that as a stepping stool for their own selfish desires...or just carelessly ignore it and like to watch someone suffer ni that way? is this a regular human trait or abnormal? i used to think humans..were 'humane' but when it comes to suffering...this is all ive witnessed, personally...people turning away, neglceting, abusing using, trying to use or furthre destroy an already suffering person...and showing only extreme cruelty to the person and no form of help...nothing...ive witnessed faimly members screw over a suffering person...and make their situation worse, and espceially the perpetrators, abuse the person and act as if its their fault or they did nothing wrong...and hordes of people come together to gang up on the person who is being bullied....is this normal for humans to do...or just extreme psychopathy in the humans you find today or people these days....

also, if a person is venting their situation onto public forums--is it wise, or do people just use that as ammo to feel better about themselves knowing someone is down and terrible things are happening to them?

 

i have never had a single person help me out during a major time of suffering or any time..not give me any positivity...do anything just to throw me in the gutter and do more negative/damage to me (any) chance they can get...most people seem to abuse those suffering and try to throw them deeper in the gutter in which they are...yet i know i still somehow hope in the faith or humanity of others...i struggle to find it only to find nothing...and just more abuse and cruelty... im just wondering if this is normal...for people to be this way....and its just something i personally dont know.. i know if someone came to me suffering..especially someone i know i would at least sympathize with them...but everyone i meet or talk to--'everyone' has other motives...they are horny perverted males wanting ot get into my pants or even use me in other ways..people who want something else....is everyone out there either someone who doesnt care or a predator? i get that most people are dealign with their own problems too... but ive witnessed only odd cruelty out there at the hands of people..and strange mean attitudes..and total carelessness... it seems so inhumane to me...

[Birch]

Hi Jenn!

 

It's a big post with lots of questions (and some assumptions too) so I will try to give my opinion about it. Some of it based on experience, some on opinion. I'll tell you when which is which.

 

"no one has any compassion for your suffering...though it is extreme..or for another person's extreme suffering...no one has offered to help in simple ways, even had an ounce of sympathy or..even any feeling..."

 

I assume you're talking about yourself and your own situation. I feel sorry for that as I have experienced both - both people unwilling to help and no compassion as well as people very willing to help and very compassionate, so I guess I can now say both of that exists in the human world.

 

When being compassionate myself, I can feel, but don't take on anyone else's pain (wouldn't help either me or the person needing help). I don't know if people you refer to as not "feeling" it are doing something else. Might be.

 

"people who you expect would--family, friends, people who may know you..."

 

Yes, I have experienced this, and I found that the my expectations were in the wrong places.

 

"people seem to be very emotionless to another person's horrible suffering..(this is for really bad suffering)....is there a reason for this?"

 

I suggested the one above about not being a useful help if one takes on the actual suffering of others, but I'm sure there are a whole bunch of other reasons. One might be to avoid it. One might be because it calls too much into question. But I'm speculating (as I often do;-))

 

"do humans just generally not care for another person's suffering or, are they also happy about it.."

 

I don't think so, but I'm not sure.

 

"are they happy when they see someone down, in tears, struggling, tortured...and instead want to keep them down or even use their position of helplessness to take advantage of them?"

 

I suppose it depends on the person.

 

"i can see predators doing that...saying..oh this person is suffering...we can use them.."

 

Predators will definitely do this.

 

"but since ive witnessed most people do this...is this just a common trait of people? it doesnt seem like a 'human' trait but that of a monster or predator..."

 

I think this is where it gets tough. Until now, yes, if this has been the case in your situation then it's tempting to generalize to all of the rest of humanity. I can testify for myself that this generalization doesn't hold. So yes, lots of predators as well as lots of compassionate people are "out there".

 

"people who you expect to help you out..instead of helping you...either turn away, or help out your abuser or the abusers and in turn...even praise the abusers..ive only witnessed...abusers, psychopaths..being praised, for having 'control or power' over their victim, rather than any sympathy for the poor victim...ive witnessed people doing nothing to help the victim but just run away from them or make their situation even worse for them... and these are people who are living comfortable decent lives with no major problems...."

 

I don't think living what's often held up to be a "comfortable decent life" in our society is necessarily something "good" But that's a personal opinion. I mentioned the system of denial in another post to you and it's entirely possible that an entire family or community in whom you place trust and expect to help will be part of the dynamic of abuse.

 

"when a person is suffering...instead of helping the extreme suffering person, the other people use that person or try to for their own benefit..maybe males for sexual or they literally will try to use that person..while they are down rather than help them while claiming they want to help them...now these people wont do it to their own family members...or others...but maybe just a victim or someone else who needs help.."

 

Well, if you're going to use someone and you need their cooperation, you don't walk up to them and say "hey, I'm going to use you, up for it?" Unfortunately, people who are down seem to need others so much that they will put blind faith in anyone who says "I'll help". I've done it.

 

"do humans perceive another person's suffering as a way of benefitting themselves...helping themselves to feel better...use that as a stepping stool for their own selfish desires...or just carelessly ignore it and like to watch someone suffer ni that way?"

 

I don't know about all of the humans but I think you've identified a few traits in people and I've given you a couple of other suggestions.

 

"is this a regular human trait or abnormal?"

 

I don't know. I suspect it may have become more "normal" than we'd like. But I'm speculating again.

 

"i used to think humans..were 'humane' but when it comes to suffering...this is all ive witnessed, personally..."

 

Some of them are, some of them aren't.

 

"people turning away, neglceting, abusing using, trying to use or furthre destroy an already suffering person...and showing only extreme cruelty to the person and no form of help...nothing...ive witnessed faimly members screw over a suffering person...and make their situation worse, and espceially the perpetrators, abuse the person and act as if its their fault or they did nothing wrong...and hordes of people come together to gang up on the person who is being bullied...."

 

I haven't seen this to the same extreme as you it seems. But I've seen it partially.

 

"is this normal for humans to do...or just extreme psychopathy in the humans you find today or people these days...."

 

I guess I speculated about that.

 

"also, if a person is venting their situation onto public forums--is it wise, or do people just use that as ammo to feel better about themselves knowing someone is down and terrible things are happening to them?"

 

I think it depends on the forum. I think TTB's is quite a good one for getting a balanced and helpful range of answers but I wouldn't necessarily take ALL of my concerns to a public forum. I've found the forums where everyone is in the same suffering boat very unhelpful. Here, you'll run into a lot of beliefs about suffering - given the "spititual" bent it has, so it might be harder to see through them to the help that people are trying to give.

 

"i have never had a single person help me out during a major time of suffering or any time..not give me any positivity...do anything just to throw me in the gutter and do more negative/damage to me (any) chance they can get..."

 

I'm so sorry about that.

 

"most people seem to abuse those suffering and try to throw them deeper in the gutter in which they are...yet i know i still somehow hope in the faith or humanity of others...i struggle to find it only to find nothing...and just more abuse and cruelty... im just wondering if this is normal...for people to be this way....and its just something i personally dont know.. "

 

There are great people who can and will help. You have to find them.

 

"i know if someone came to me suffering..especially someone i know i would at least sympathize with them..."

 

This is a very good trait to have, never lose sight of it.

 

"but everyone i meet or talk to--'everyone' has other motives...they are horny perverted males wanting ot get into my pants or even use me in other ways..people who want something else....is everyone out there either someone who doesnt care or a predator?"

 

No

 

"i get that most people are dealign with their own problems too..."

 

I think there's a lot more of this than we think.

 

"but ive witnessed only odd cruelty out there at the hands of people..and strange mean attitudes..and total carelessness... it seems so inhumane to me..."

 

I think it's part of "human" right now.

[goldisheavy]

Many factors are involved. In general perception depends on the mindset. The mindset is a complicated set of beliefs and relationships that's stored in the mind of a person.

 

So, some examples:

 

1. If I am a man who has been taught directly or indirectly that women are not as important as men, it will reduce the empathy I have for women because I will think less of them, so if they suffer, their suffering is worth less than mine, since I am a man.

 

2. If I believe I am separate from other beings, I will feel their suffering much less vividly compared to what I'd feel if I believed I was one with others.

 

3. If I believe that a person who is suffering is evil, the suffering of that person will affect me less, because I will believe they deserve it and it is right that they suffer. This belief doesn't have to be based on some kind of logic or truth. For example, I might believe that all women are loose whores who try to keep the man from the straight path, and thus are inherently evil. You can guess how that would affect my perception of a woman's suffering.

 

4. I might believe you're in your situation due to your own stupidity or laziness, and thus you deserve everything that's coming to you. Again this belief doesn't have to be based on logic or reality to be effective at reducing empathy. Many conservative people feel like this about others, they feel if the person suffers, it's that person's fault every single time. So I find lots of callous conservative people.

 

I think empathy generally depends on self-identity and on the perceived deservedness of suffering. So if a person has a wide and all-embracing self-identity, there is more empathy. If the person thinks the suffering person is righteous, there is again more empathy. The worst case scenario is someone who believes oneself to be completely separate from others and who believes the suffering person deserves the suffering in some way.

 

If you find the problem to be consistent, the problem is likely not related to unique individuals, but either cultural or something to do with you. Does your culture view women as pets? I have empathy for my dog, but it's not the same as my empathy for say my wife. A pet is only a pet. So that could be part of the problem. Or it might be something else. Maybe you're going around stabbing people or maybe you gossip too much behind people's backs. Who knows?

 

Personally I doubt that you're a nasty person so my hunch tells me you're experiencing a cultural problem. It would help if you gave some examples of what actually happened (use fake names).

 

In general, and this applies to the entire planet, most people view themselves as entirely separate from others, and that contributes to callousness a great deal. Also, business relations are often considered impersonal, so there is a lot of suffering that comes through with that.

 

There is also a possibility that you see the worst in everything. Maybe your life is not so bad but you fail to notice those times when people helped you and only focus on those times when they didn't help you.

 

Without some examples, it's very very hard to say.

Edited November 23, 2010 by goldisheavy

[pilot]

[goldisheavy]

Talk about synchronicity. As soon as replied I found this article without actually looking for it:

 

http://www.psychologicalscience.org/index.php/news/releases/upper-class-people-have-trouble-recognizing-others-emotions.html

 

It might be relevant to your situation.

[Ninpo-me-this-ninjutsu-me-that]

Sometimes it's simply that another persons suffering reminds then of their own repressed suffering and makes them uncomfortable, and they run off as fast as their legs can carry them.

 

Not being able to directly feel and experience another's emotions/feelings is also the big problem, were everyone able to experience each others emotion most of the worlds pain and suffering would be over in a day. But sadly that will not happen anytime soon. All anyone can do is work on themselves to break down the barriers of feeling their own mind creates, and possibly be vigilant of others actions. There are certainly a fair few people in the world who do seem to 'get off' on another's suffering. Keep away from those people.... they rarely change.

 

'Forgive them, for they know not what they do.'. That guy knew what he was talking about. People don't know the suffering they cause, because they are stuck in their own minds...unable to directly perceive the mind and feelings of others.... if they truly could they would be horrified as to the exact pain they cause.

 

One day they will experience that pain as their own, and they will either degenerate further, or rise above it having learned empathy the hard way. In either case, it's best to keep away from them in my view.

 

I wish you happiness. Don't worry, over a period of years you will be able to spot them a mile off and give them a wide birth. But it does take time. Watch out for the grin.

Edited November 23, 2010 by Ninpo-me-this-ninjutsu-me-that

[jenn992]

wow...those are all very insightful responses...and a lot of really good explanations...i guess it would depend on a person's expereinces/circumstances...maybe it is or isn't humanity ..im not really sure...

my situations are very bad....and usually the major pattern is that when youre down or suffering in any manner or mode, you will be tormented more..as if people or these people of course 'evil' ones causing your suffernig just minimize your suffering or response to it..kind of like...wincing at someone getting bit by an alligator..while ur screaming writhing in pain...suffering horribly...mostly at something they have done to you...they look at you...just shrug like..oh? and walk off...not even acknowledging any of your pain..this is done by the abusers as well as what i call 'bystanders' or people you turn to for help...yes ive witnessed this in my own suffering..all 12 years of it...but im wondering if it happens to others...if its a common consensual thing...as if people not only treat u like youre nothing but could care less...and in fact, get pleasure out of causing you pain....or even blaem the abuse they've done to you, on you...the people who do this are very malicious people...but for me to be the eternal victim suffering at the hands of careless wicked people and receiving no sympathy or compassion from anyone is kind of scary.. it doesn't seem human to me...it seems...alien, predatory, evil...something that is different from what human nature is supposed to represent...

we seem to live in a society full of predators, or people like that, but to witness it from so many or the majority or everyone ive encountered almost is a little frightening....its as if people are kicking u to the ground, abusing you, ruining you....and not even acknowledging what theyre doing and instead calling you the abuser...then leaving you to die...and doing it over and over again...and acting as if nothing has been done to you...its really odd...bystanders will always support the 'abusers' adn say 'well no one was kicking you HARD"??? come on??! (just an example)...youre making a big deal...or say u deserved it! or..something to that extent....while you, being a compassionate witnessing persecution towards you by these evil people...who have none apparently (only for themselves or others but not you) and the cycle repeats... so much so that u become a punching bag for evil people...or this is what people perceive u as literally and how they treat you....u receive no symptahy, compassion and if someone did abuse you...u better believe u can't fight back as no one would defend you and your abuser would be defended....how is this cruel behavior possible in a sane civil world....and those who abuse you or anyone yet no one acknowledges it...what can someone do about this?

you wonder, if this is a trait of humans these days..if so many have turned into cold heartless monsters or if something else is going on... i do agree im sure there are many compassionate people out there...but in my reality...i havent met any..only very cruel people who treat me cruelly...and i cant change that...its shocking to witness this bakcwards reality and just wonder...is this how most humans function? or are? in turn you aer not acknowledged or treated as a human being...just as a nobody who people can abuse and torment or torture for fun at will and no one will do anything about it...and trying to defend yourself means being attacked harder and fiercer by these cold or wicked people...ive witnesed people show compassion to those suffering and even not suffernig...even something silly...such as "oh my brother is mean to me"...yet those people who are especially truly suffering...the ones really suffering...and going through awful things, receive nothing...not just me but others...they are ignored, outcasted or even persecuted....for no reason...it makes no sense...ive witnessed warped compassion such as compassion for things not deserved...such as "oh im so sorry i didnt get u mushrooms on your pizza"but if they put u through torture--nothing...(my sister did this and it was odd)...apologies for not the extra topping on a pizza but when i said to her or say "how could u have done this horrible thing to me"??? nothing...zilch...because she is such a bad person...doing evil doesnt phase her...but she apologizes for nothing...but its not just with her...its with so many different things...ive witnessed the crueller people get, the more evil, the less compassion a person receives for their suffering... it makes no sense....why this backwards attitude...towards human suffering...the ones ive experienced...it makes you wonder... what is truly going on in the minds or souls of people...

[jenn992]

Sometimes it's simply that another persons suffering reminds then of their own repressed suffering and makes them uncomfortable, and they run off as fast as their legs can carry them.

 

Not being able to directly feel and experience another's emotions/feelings is also the big problem, were everyone able to experience each others emotion most of the worlds pain and suffering would be over in a day. But sadly that will not happen anytime soon. All anyone can do is work on themselves to break down the barriers of feeling their own mind creates, and possibly be vigilant of others actions. There are certainly a fair few people in the world who do seem to 'get off' on another's suffering. Keep away from those people.... they rarely change.

 

'Forgive them, for they know not what they do.'. That guy knew what he was talking about. People don't know the suffering they cause, because they are stuck in their own minds...unable to directly perceive the mind and feelings of others.... if they truly could they would be horrified as to the exact pain they cause.

 

One day they will experience that pain as their own, and they will either degenerate further, or rise above it having learned empathy the hard way. In either case, it's best to keep away from them in my view.

 

I wish you happiness. Don't worry, over a period of years you will be able to spot them a mile off and give them a wide birth. But it does take time. Watch out for the grin.

 

 

this is so true-- that people do run away from what they dont understand or are scared of...and it seems people can't empathize with others...the only thing is ive seen them empathize with some or they seem to have a good understanding.. towards others...but not to you or to those who truly might have been going through bad....people dont have the capability of empathy...many don't..so that makes sense...but is it also true that if someone minimizes anotehr's suffering...they somehow manage to mess up the person's mind more, break them down, brainwash them...by just ignoring their cries completely...or acting as if its no big deal...just wondering if that is a tactic abusive people use towards others...in order to control them more, or just treat them badly.... people seem to either not know the suffering they cause, or know but just don't care...b/c they seem to get pleasure out of causing othe rpeople to suffer...- the ones ive seen? they seem to gain some kind of strength from it and find no wrong in doing that to the otehr person...to me it is so evil...but then again maybe...they truly dont know but that doesnt seem to be the total truth...but still all of that does make sense...thanks

[jenn992]

Talk about synchronicity. As soon as replied I found this article without actually looking for it:

 

http://www.psychologicalscience.org/index.php/news/releases/upper-class-people-have-trouble-recognizing-others-emotions.html

 

It might be relevant to your situation.

 

this is an interesting article...thanks..it does seem that..those who have money, or live a certain lifestyle might be..disconnected from others...in that manner or possibly lack that empathy..though the people who've abused me...seem to express extreme sympathy/empathy for animals, other situations etc...they seem to be the classic psychopath/narcissist mentality...being able to put on a show of caring sympathy or even possessing it yet still abusing 'others' on the side...ive witnessed this in a lot of humans...they can have sympathy love or care for one, while they aer torturing another person...its almost difficult to say they are truly a psychopath b/c they show care or love for other things or people but are abusive to others--though they are still for sure... it doesnt seem to be the empathy lacking part but...more or less...the determination to destroy the victim part...that drives them.. to doing what they do...i know in my case...i was a nice sweet innocent literally very naive kind girl...but my family quite cruelly destroyed my life and continues to...along with others..it surprises me that people show no remorse, care, but instead grin smirk laugh...and find some kind of fun in causing pain or suffering to another...omre or less me, or whoever else a person might be who is bullied abused or victimized....these very people..my sister in fact, is a humanitarian, charity worker..she recently went to haiti, to do relief work, justto come back and ruin her own sister's life...kind of scary....when you think "ok, she does relief work, yet sets out to destroy my life literally coldly and calculatingly"..that is the trait of some kind of a psychopath, I would assume or just someone capable and who does hurt another person...when, you are that 'person' that all tehse seemingly 'good people' are abusing...then you wonder what your worth it--it is being diminished, demoralized...youre being treated sa if youre nothing...and if so many have abused a person the same way, it is teh same consensus...so its confusing b/c ive witnessed abuse occur to me, by people who dont abuse others..but im the only person or usually the only person they are abusing or treating badly...so its hard to say they lack compassion empathy, but for you , they definitely do...and why do they lack this empathy only for someone like you yet not for others...or maybe they dont have it overall anyway and just decide to be more malicious towards you or others...for another reason... or for those who they abuse or want to suffer..they seem to not only not feel my pain or care about it-- bnut to the extent that if i am ever in their presence they 'will' abuse me, repeatedly...and ruin my life too..they seem to get pleasure out of causing me suffering...yet how can people have no remorse in that manner....the bystanders...every bystander has just been a predator, accomplice to the abuse, or could care less...its odd to try to understand...if all this is human nature, situation, socioeconomic, or yes just all situatoinal and chance/luck...or 'human nature' in general and what people are becoming or always have been....being a compassionate your nature is different from them...youre a giver, a healer, you live to help others...you cant stand to see people suffering...you would do anything to stop someones suffering, help them...that is pleasure for you....but what is pleasure for you, isnt for them..they take pleasure in removing someone else's happiness, love, and destroying it..and creating that suffering...the irony for me is that im that positive happy normal person, yet being abused persecuted and floored, in so many ways by so many cruel people...who all are benefitting and gaining happiness from not only making me suffer, but destroying that light that is inside you...its just a sad irony that a person who loves to help/heal is being obliterated/abused by others..with no compassion or help so that they can be totally ruined..while abusers are getting away with doing this...theirs is to take away your love, compassion, healing, light...they want to extinguish it and destroy you...and that gives them so much happiness...b/c they are miserable and they feed off destroying you...or whoever they choose to treat that way.. its so twisted and out there...

Edited November 24, 2010 by jenn992

[jenn992]

Hi Jenn!

 

It's a big post with lots of questions (and some assumptions too) so I will try to give my opinion about it. Some of it based on experience, some on opinion. I'll tell you when which is which.

 

"no one has any compassion for your suffering...though it is extreme..or for another person's extreme suffering...no one has offered to help in simple ways, even had an ounce of sympathy or..even any feeling..."

 

I assume you're talking about yourself and your own situation. I feel sorry for that as I have experienced both - both people unwilling to help and no compassion as well as people very willing to help and very compassionate, so I guess I can now say both of that exists in the human world.

 

When being compassionate myself, I can feel, but don't take on anyone else's pain (wouldn't help either me or the person needing help). I don't know if people you refer to as not "feeling" it are doing something else. Might be.

 

"people who you expect would--family, friends, people who may know you..."

 

Yes, I have experienced this, and I found that the my expectations were in the wrong places.

 

"people seem to be very emotionless to another person's horrible suffering..(this is for really bad suffering)....is there a reason for this?"

 

I suggested the one above about not being a useful help if one takes on the actual suffering of others, but I'm sure there are a whole bunch of other reasons. One might be to avoid it. One might be because it calls too much into question. But I'm speculating (as I often do;-))

 

"do humans just generally not care for another person's suffering or, are they also happy about it.."

 

I don't think so, but I'm not sure.

 

"are they happy when they see someone down, in tears, struggling, tortured...and instead want to keep them down or even use their position of helplessness to take advantage of them?"

 

I suppose it depends on the person.

 

"i can see predators doing that...saying..oh this person is suffering...we can use them.."

 

Predators will definitely do this.

 

"but since ive witnessed most people do this...is this just a common trait of people? it doesnt seem like a 'human' trait but that of a monster or predator..."

 

I think this is where it gets tough. Until now, yes, if this has been the case in your situation then it's tempting to generalize to all of the rest of humanity. I can testify for myself that this generalization doesn't hold. So yes, lots of predators as well as lots of compassionate people are "out there".

 

"people who you expect to help you out..instead of helping you...either turn away, or help out your abuser or the abusers and in turn...even praise the abusers..ive only witnessed...abusers, psychopaths..being praised, for having 'control or power' over their victim, rather than any sympathy for the poor victim...ive witnessed people doing nothing to help the victim but just run away from them or make their situation even worse for them... and these are people who are living comfortable decent lives with no major problems...."

 

I don't think living what's often held up to be a "comfortable decent life" in our society is necessarily something "good" But that's a personal opinion. I mentioned the system of denial in another post to you and it's entirely possible that an entire family or community in whom you place trust and expect to help will be part of the dynamic of abuse.

 

"when a person is suffering...instead of helping the extreme suffering person, the other people use that person or try to for their own benefit..maybe males for sexual or they literally will try to use that person..while they are down rather than help them while claiming they want to help them...now these people wont do it to their own family members...or others...but maybe just a victim or someone else who needs help.."

 

Well, if you're going to use someone and you need their cooperation, you don't walk up to them and say "hey, I'm going to use you, up for it?" Unfortunately, people who are down seem to need others so much that they will put blind faith in anyone who says "I'll help". I've done it.

 

"do humans perceive another person's suffering as a way of benefitting themselves...helping themselves to feel better...use that as a stepping stool for their own selfish desires...or just carelessly ignore it and like to watch someone suffer ni that way?"

 

I don't know about all of the humans but I think you've identified a few traits in people and I've given you a couple of other suggestions.

 

"is this a regular human trait or abnormal?"

 

I don't know. I suspect it may have become more "normal" than we'd like. But I'm speculating again.

 

"i used to think humans..were 'humane' but when it comes to suffering...this is all ive witnessed, personally..."

 

Some of them are, some of them aren't.

 

"people turning away, neglceting, abusing using, trying to use or furthre destroy an already suffering person...and showing only extreme cruelty to the person and no form of help...nothing...ive witnessed faimly members screw over a suffering person...and make their situation worse, and espceially the perpetrators, abuse the person and act as if its their fault or they did nothing wrong...and hordes of people come together to gang up on the person who is being bullied...."

 

I haven't seen this to the same extreme as you it seems. But I've seen it partially.

 

"is this normal for humans to do...or just extreme psychopathy in the humans you find today or people these days...."

 

I guess I speculated about that.

 

"also, if a person is venting their situation onto public forums--is it wise, or do people just use that as ammo to feel better about themselves knowing someone is down and terrible things are happening to them?"

 

I think it depends on the forum. I think TTB's is quite a good one for getting a balanced and helpful range of answers but I wouldn't necessarily take ALL of my concerns to a public forum. I've found the forums where everyone is in the same suffering boat very unhelpful. Here, you'll run into a lot of beliefs about suffering - given the "spititual" bent it has, so it might be harder to see through them to the help that people are trying to give.

 

"i have never had a single person help me out during a major time of suffering or any time..not give me any positivity...do anything just to throw me in the gutter and do more negative/damage to me (any) chance they can get..."

 

I'm so sorry about that.

 

"most people seem to abuse those suffering and try to throw them deeper in the gutter in which they are...yet i know i still somehow hope in the faith or humanity of others...i struggle to find it only to find nothing...and just more abuse and cruelty... im just wondering if this is normal...for people to be this way....and its just something i personally dont know.. "

 

There are great people who can and will help. You have to find them.

 

"i know if someone came to me suffering..especially someone i know i would at least sympathize with them..."

 

This is a very good trait to have, never lose sight of it.

 

"but everyone i meet or talk to--'everyone' has other motives...they are horny perverted males wanting ot get into my pants or even use me in other ways..people who want something else....is everyone out there either someone who doesnt care or a predator?"

 

No

 

"i get that most people are dealign with their own problems too..."

 

I think there's a lot more of this than we think.

 

"but ive witnessed only odd cruelty out there at the hands of people..and strange mean attitudes..and total carelessness... it seems so inhumane to me..."

 

I think it's part of "human" right now.

 

 

this is a good break down...of everything based on your perspcetive..thank you--good insight..and i guess it's true that it kind of depends on situation and other factors... maybe there is a combination of reasons as to why people have the attitude they have....or why it differs with everyone, ie the attitudes they receive. I'm sure everyone to some extent has experienced some hardship or mistreatment during bad times, and probably some help as well. I think my experiences are more on the extreme bad...to where i keep receiving the same attitude, treatment..so much so that its the same cycle of 'insanity'...its just repeating over, and over again and i already know what's going to happen before i do it.. yet sometimes i can't help but to need to do it- even to vent or call someone or need advice...most people ive met are only predators looking to use you b/c they need something and no matter what it is, a human's suffering means nothing to them...u could go to someone saying "im stuck in a bad situation...they offer their undivided help...but during it all they are saying "so..oh yes i can't wait until we meet again and then start dating..i can live with you"..what? u can live with me and i met u once a year ago..and youre a talent agent i dont even know? then when ur desperate and travelling to another city their text message is "when i meet you im going to give ua nice bath" err..what??? i thought you said you 'werent' going to take advantage of me? then u meet go to dinner..then next thing u know...he slowly stops talking to you..b/c he didnt get what he wanted..after offering help, this, that..awful, or usually much worse and people just false promises, lies, other motives...aside from predators like that, other people just don't care.. and they act aloof, stupid, and dont seem to understand any basic situation..usually its people even calling your enemies and spilling what you told them..or doing bad to you..or fighting yelling at you.. what bothers me is people brainwashing those who are suffering or down...messing with their heads, or even making it seem as if anyone who did bad, is a good person...

the reply by gold in the next one, where it was stated as cultural is interesting too....i am asian/indian...my family is from 'that' culture yet they were never like that growing up...they were cool laid back..pretty nice...it wasn't until i hit my 20's that my parents or mother went nuts and they all turned on me and started bullying me. They treat me like an oppressed female from one of those asian sub cultures...they abuse, oppress mistreat me...but they dont do it to my sister and im the oldest child..so its not cultural...its almost just a huge backlash towards 'me'...maybe b/c of something i possess, or jealousy...or who knows...whta compels humans to want to destroy another person...i know in my case it is trying to bring me down but not just once, twice, it is non-stop and the abuse just gets worse...im forced to stay with my family temporarily so im suffering but once i move back to my place that won't end. the others who cause me suffering, can be just about anyone....my unfortunate experiences have taught me that one major cause of suffering is 'otehr people' and for me that is a major one...but also that i know that most people wont have sympathy or have had any for me in particular, b/c they feel the same way those who aer oppressing me feel--maybe b/c of jealousy...their hatred is so extreme , determination to control, or destroy..im not sure which it is...that they will stop at nothing to do this bad to me...aside from those things it could be karmic...but what ive perceived with suffering is that, in my situation, though im sure ive witnessed the persecution side to it, is that humans have very little sympathy for those suffering, like to see people down, suffering in chaos...many like to put people there themselves b/c they feed off it or gain benefit fro mbringing others down...they are evil miserable people...i guess since the world is like them...what i would call 'evil'..they seem to defend the actions they commit...another thing is that people seem to like to brainwash control intimidate and manipulate those who are down or suffering rather than help them out..and use their vulnerability to control them.. rather than help..not everyone but so many..seem to be predatory..or just disregard it not care and just shrug and walk off..ignore or minimize....im sure this is common knowledge but ive experienced it to such extremes...its not only a pattern...its the only thing i had experienced for a while and still do...if people do show 'care' i get shocked somewhere such as...no its not happening? i almost fear it because i almost dont believe it could happen...one perso ni felt who was showing care...instead began throwing negativity onto me harshly, talking to him was a nightmare, draining and i felt sick when i woke up then he called my 'abuser' up and talked to her...without telling me...and then called me back then began taking her side...and insulting me more...this was my cousin's husband...and even when i felt...he seemed like a really caring person..he ended up being...a monster and someone who seemed to take pleasure..in sitting on the phone and verbally insulting me dominating the conversation...treating me so badly..not letting me get a word in..trying to manipulate and even said "im not trying to control you" ...odd.. what ive experienced is humans being blatantly evil cold and cruel to those suffernig...and doing so in very odd cruel ways...it surprises you and makes you wonder...how sick people really are inside...maybe its somethin gi can't fathom...so i cant understand it...it seems foreign..or very strange...

we live in a society, that instead of showing compassion to others..does the opposite...it perpetuates thi ridiculous cycle of abuse that is so present everywhere...it creates psychopaths, monsters, abusers..it teaches people to hurt others be tough aggressive even cruel to otehrs...it encourages bullying...whereas people should stop the abuse intheir own houses, backyards, everywhere...they don't.. people don't speak up, stop it..they ignore it...worse than anything instead of helping out victims, people tend to brainwash, manipulate mistreat or use victims to their advantage...in turn creating more damaged people, more abusers, and people looknig to lash out at the next..of coures people know about this recurrent cycle of abuse, but its just getting worse, and nothing is being done about it--how can it be done if as a victim you are receiving only cruelty from others, and defense of those doing the abuse...it shows that if you do bad to someone you are praised/rewarded and if you do good or ar ekind, well that's perceived as weakness it seems..this isnt with everyone/everything but just so prevalent and common...if only society could do something about this sick cycle that is so present...its bad enough that so much wrong occurs, but worse that people then use it to abuse those who are victims of it...i think that is a major problem ailing our society today...or any society..rather than focus on being positive- though that is one important thing, people need to focus on the negative and finding ways of eradicating it...but even more so at least even acknowledging that it is wrong..b/c society has gotten so immoral instead of acknowledgnig an immoral act, they cover it up, defend it, praise it, lie about it...and will blame innocents who are even victims of the act..it seems so cruel to me...how a person can do a bad to someone and then blame that person...and others will help them out...i guess this is what ive experienced/witnsesed...but im sure its also common everywhere...its just apart of the cycle fo abuse/suffering or things that occur in this society...if only people would teach compassion, kindness, morality...to each other..though that would be difficult, if that was the norm, then it would be a different place...

Edited November 24, 2010 by jenn992

[goonis38]

Hi there,

Wow... This is the best post I have seen in a long time, on any forum, it really cuts to the belly of it...

I feel your pain, first off. I was just talking to my husband last night about this very subject. And it comes up in our house quite often...

First off let me say. I am a good person so there is one, and you are a good person there is two. And there are more of us, but my mom always said " Good people are hard to get to know, while bad people are easy to get to know" So another wards we don't put ourselves out there to met as easily, as the bad ones. So it seems as if the whole world is full of shi**...

Now with that being said I know just what you mean. When I was young I had a drug problem, I went to the preacher at the Church. I have went to most my life. For Love, and understanding. Maybe he would pray for me, or with me. Maybe tell me I wasn't this terrible person I thought I was, that I keeped punishing myself for some reason.

So what did I get? Love, and understanding? No scorned, talked about around town. We live in a small town. They where mad at me. You are weak, and stupid, for this. Well yes I already knew that. Thats why I'm here trying to get some love, so I can forgive myself and move on. No!!! This is not what I got even from the Church... I still don't forget them, I forgive them.... But I see them for what they are....

Now next, I'm 40 this year. I was in terrible car accident, that wasn't my fault. A man ran a stop sign and hit me in my drivers side door. This is about three months now. Every air bag popped, all glass in my car busted out. The EMS lady said we thought you would be dead. Totaled my nice car, me and my husband have worked hard for, for thirteen years of marriage...

I never got one phone call from my husbands family, to even say they where sorry, are you ok. And as far as that goes the man who hit me never came to see if I was ok, I had to go to him and say it's ok we all make mistakes, I'm glad we are alive... nothing from this man. And I may of received two phone calls, people that said they where sorry for me...

And yes it is in all there faces... Some people love to see you loose nice things, be down on your luck. They hate you when you are up. And are glad when you are down. Even your own family, I told my husband mybe they wished me dead the way people act, sad for them, full of hate they are... "Happy Thanksgiving".... right!

But here comes the good news my friend, There is good in the world. We are here and many others just like us. It stands to reason we can't be the only ones... So chin up, for me and you. We will keep buying a bum a hamburger if our heart pulls us to, and we have the extra cash... We will love when we can another, even if it is a hug.... We the sweet loving people of the world must stay sweet. And don't get hardened by these hartless creeps...

So hugs and love to you... I am sorry you have been treated this way. And I know you feel for me. Because this is the way we are...

Take care, Melanie

[The Observer]

Stop complaining about suffering this/suffering that. By believing yourself to be the victim you actually create the situation. Take initiative and do whatever is necessary to get were you want to be. Don't let yourself be abused and pick yourself up. This world's a dog eat dog world and often times people will not help you so don't depend on them.

 

But when you do pick yourself up do try to be helpful and courteous to others

Edited November 24, 2010 by The Observer

[goldisheavy]

jenn992,

 

I must ask you to stop typing the way you do. Please write in complete sentences with a period at the end of each sentence. Please split your massive walls of text into short and easy to read paragraphs.

 

You complain about suffering inflicted on you by others, and yet you demonstrate total disregard to the comforts of others by your manner of writing. You apparently don't care how hard it is to read what you write. You don't care that writing in short phrases split by intermittent ellipses, without any paragraph breaks, is a sheer mental torture to read. It's almost like subconsciously you don't want anyone to read anything you write.

 

I tried to read your first few posts, but I will not read one more wall of text from you. If you want help, please be nice to those you want help from. Begin being nice by respecting the basic and simple rules of the English grammar. You don't have to be perfect, but surely you can do better.

Edited November 24, 2010 by goldisheavy

[RiverSnake]

I think suffering is part of life.

 

-Sometimes were happy other times were sad. In my experience it is best to find a space in between the two.

 

-Its also been my experience that if you rely on others for your happiness and fullfillment you're destined to be dissapointed. We all have to carry our own cross.

 

-You can't change the people around you whether they be psychopaths, rapists, or simply nasty individuals. But what you can do is change yourself, people have a choice to be good or evil, to follow their ego or be happy, respect that choice.

 

-Change yourself, don't worry about other people, and if you have such nasty people around you then separate yourself from them.

 

-My 2 cents, peace

Edited November 24, 2010 by Tao Apprentice

[Ninpo-me-this-ninjutsu-me-that]

jenn992,

 

I must ask you to stop typing the way you do. Please write in complete sentences with a period at the end of each sentence. Please split your massive walls of text into short and easy to read paragraphs.

 

You complain about suffering inflicted on you by others, and yet you demonstrate total disregard to the comforts of others by your manner of writing. You apparently don't care how hard it is to read what you write. You don't care that writing in short phrases split by intermittent ellipses, without any paragraph breaks, is a sheer mental torture to read. It's almost like subconsciously you don't want anyone to read anything you write.

 

I tried to read your first few posts, but I will not read one more wall of text from you. If you want help, please be nice to those you want help from. Begin being nice by respecting the basic and simple rules of the English grammar. You don't have to be perfect, but surely you can do better.

 

 

And so we come to the crux of suffering. It's subjective. It isn't mental torture to me.

 

Maybe that's why people are cruel. They wouldn't experience that emotional pain themselves so they don't think others would either.

 

How about if she considers grammar mental torture. Unlikely mind you, but not impossible. Try reading a Mills & Boon book and you'll know what I mean.

[Aaron]

I werked as a coppe-riter and editor fore yeers and I can tell you, peeple misspelling werds and not putting, commas and periods where, theyre suposed to be. Is, annoyying. I lerned to reed, and rite, using fonix. It werked for me. I wish other peeple wer as foretunate.

 

Aaron

[Aaron]

Jenn,

 

I have not had what you would call an easy life. If what you desire is compassion from those you care about, then I'm afraid you may be setting yourself up for failure. You can't make someone care about you, plain and simple. If the people you love don't have compassion for you, perhaps you should look at the deeper question and ask why?

 

As far as compassion goes, I've had this debate recently and my argument is that compassion is one of the fundamental human emotions, we're wired to feel it at birth, however as we grow older our environment begins to reprogram that wiring.

 

An example is the classic sadist. Most sadist grow up in an environment where they feel a great deal of suffering, their way of coping with that suffering is to try and gain control over it by exerting it on others. Exerting suffering on others is a pleasurable experience.

 

Another example is the classic masochist. Most masochists grow up in an environment where they feel a great deal of suffering, their way of coping with that suffering is to try and gain control over it by enjoying the suffering others impose on them. Suffering for them is a pleasurable experience.

 

In a perfect world sadist would find masochists and everyone would be happy.

 

I would suggest trying to figure out what you want from these people, what you really want. It sounds to me like you want someone to validate your own suffering, so I will do that for you. You have suffered, it was horrible and you shouldn't have had to go through it.

 

Now I would suggest that you look for a therapist that you can talk to and try to come to terms with this. Your answers aren't going to come from this forum, they will only come when you have understood the reality of your experience.

 

Aaron

Edited November 25, 2010 by Twinner

[strawdog65]

I werked as a coppe-riter and editor fore yeers and I can tell you, peeple misspelling werds and not putting, commas and periods where, theyre suposed to be. Is, annoyying. I lerned to reed, and rite, using fonix. It werked for me. I wish other peeple wer as foretunate.

 

Aaron

 

 

 

eye hat e too ag ree,but ido!

 

Puleazzzze.....

[Ninpo-me-this-ninjutsu-me-that]

I werked as a coppe-riter and editor fore yeers and I can tell you, peeple misspelling werds and not putting, commas and periods where, theyre suposed to be. Is, annoyying. I lerned to reed, and rite, using fonix. It werked for me. I wish other peeple wer as foretunate.

 

Aaron

 

Oh; fick mi tats "fanny!

 

"Aoccdrnig to a rscheearch at Cmabrigde Uinervtisy, it deosn't mttaer in waht oredr the ltteers in a wrod are, the olny iprmoetnt tihng is taht the frist and lsat ltteer be at the rghit pclae. The rset can be a total mses and you can sitll raed it wouthit porbelm. Tihs is bcuseae the huamn mnid deos not raed ervey lteter by istlef, but the wrod as a wlohe."