Orbs Fight Challenge!

[Martial Development]

For people who want to volunteer themselves for a polite comparison of skills, DojoScore is a great resource.

 

Problem is, someone always wants to volunteer somebody else, to "defend the reputation of their shared art" or "expose fraud" or some other nonsense.

 

When you are trying to make a name for yourself by answering challenges, you have no choice but to attract attention. But those who would make the challenges don't need to say a word, they can just go forward and handle their business. "Put up or shut up" applies to them especially.

Edited November 29, 2010 by Martial Development

[Martial Development]

My view is that Taiji is potentially devestating. however I don't think one student in 10000 is afforded the opportunity to really develop and be exposed to the full curriculum of Taiji training as it had existed in the past.

This means that Taiji players rarely develop to their full potential. Probably more people exist in China who have experienced that level of training, but I doubt that proportion is very much higher than 1 in 10000 also.

 

I met a Taiji instructor who studied directly with the senior members of the Yang and Wu styles. He said that the number of students to whom he has taught everything he learned from his own masters, is zero. In over fifty years of teaching, zero. Not because he doesn't want to share, but because nobody has been both willing and able to absorb it all.

 

Some people like Taiji and others hate it. But how many are even capable of considering it--as it barely existed 100 years ago, and barely exists today--much less analyzing its strengths and weaknesses?

 

Is this what passes for combat science nowadays? If you issue a challenge and nobody answers it, then you can rightfully declare yourself (or your ideology, if there is any difference) champion? Well, I guess that would explain the proliferation of Grandmasters.

[Sloppy Zhang]

I met a Taiji instructor who studied directly with the senior members of the Yang and Wu styles. He said that the number of students to whom he has taught everything he learned from his own masters, is zero. In over fifty years of teaching, zero. Not because he doesn't want to share, but because nobody has been both willing and able to absorb it all.

 

Mind sharing the name of this person? It's always good to know where to go if you want to study some real tai chi.

 

Some people like Taiji and others hate it. But how many are even capable of considering it--as it barely existed 100 years ago, and barely exists today--much less analyzing its strengths and weaknesses?

 

Well back then Yang Chengfu and Yang Banhou were out there every day on the leitai establishing themselves, making a reputation, fighting and WINNING, given officially appointed positions, and the like. They took their skills right in the middle of where all the fighting was, and came out victorious.

 

Where is the fighting nowadays? Leitai? War zones? MMA? How many tai chi people are fighting in those? The bullshido guys have found videos of sanshou people using moves that look like tai chi. Haven't heard much about tai chi in the military. Or MMA. Brazilian jujutsu made a name for itself in MMA. Combat brazilian jujutsu (complete with eye gouges, knives, and broken glass!) is now being taught in military combatives in the ground fighting section- why? Because it WORKS. Because Royce Gracie fought and DEFEATED numerous people who were BIGGER than him and who wanted to seriously put some hurt on him. Because even BEFORE UFC 1, the Gracie family had given out the Gracie challenge, and they were choking people out day in, day out, making a name for themselves, keeping their money, and making good on their word.

 

What have the top styles of tai chi done? What have all the unnamed masters done for their art in recent times?

 

Is this what passes for combat science nowadays? If you issue a challenge and nobody answers it, then you can rightfully declare yourself (or your ideology, if there is any difference) champion? Well, I guess that would explain the proliferation of Grandmasters.

 

What passes for combat science is what is there to research. Professional fighters, soldiers, schools, and other organizations are there to be tested. You watch a show like fight science, and you get guys like Bas Rutten being tested against some no-name guy who claims to practice ninjutsu. Bas is generating the force of a car crashing into your rib cage, the scientists are blown away, they don't believe the numbers and keep having to retest, then this no name ninjutsu guy is hitting the thing and barely making a dent. They're like, "yeah.... it's like you got punched in the chest." Then look back at Bas and are like, "holy fuck, the numbers look like a car!"

 

Then all the ninjas come out of the internet wood work, "oh well that wasn't ninjutsu", "oh well that test was biased", "oh well that would never work in t3h streetz", "oh yeah, there are no rules in the real world."

 

SAME THING goes on with IMA guys. Same thing. It's pathetic, really. The only people who are to blame for the decreasing quality of IMA these days, are the IMA teachers who are hiding in the corner. Sure, everyone has a right to lead a private life. You don't have to teach on your uber deadly skills if you don't want to. You don't have to step into the octagon, or go to a military combatives program, if you really don't want to.

 

Just don't turn around and start complaining that no one is giving you a fair deal.

Edited November 29, 2010 by Sloppy Zhang

[Martial Development]

Mind sharing the name of this person? It's always good to know where to go if you want to study some real tai chi.

 

I do not imply that everyone else is fake. But the person in question was Xie Bingcan.

 

Well back then Yang Chengfu and Yang Banhou were out there every day on the leitai establishing themselves, making a reputation, fighting and WINNING, given officially appointed positions, and the like. They took their skills right in the middle of where all the fighting was, and came out victorious.

 

I wasn't there. But I wouldn't rush to assign any more credibility to 100-year-old stories than to modern ones.

[thelerner]

It occurs to me that ultimately the true MMA champions are going to incorporate IMA deeply into there styles. When I see the very highest level, people like 'The Spider' Silva, they seem to be in another time zone then there opponents. When I look at Chuck Liddell's physique there is a deceptive softness to it that is common in high level IMA. There are a number of champions who look clumsy but have deceptive power that puts opponents away.

 

It may well be that the very best use IMA techniques now as there secret weapons.

 

 

Michael

[Sloppy Zhang]

I do not imply that everyone else is fake. But the person in question was Xie Bingcan.

 

Thanks!

 

I wasn't there. But I wouldn't rush to assign any more credibility to 100-year-old stories than to modern ones.

 

Neither would I, yet they got their style, and their name, established somehow.

 

It occurs to me that ultimately the true MMA champions are going to incorporate IMA deeply into there styles. When I see the very highest level, people like 'The Spider' Silva, they seem to be in another time zone then there opponents. When I look at Chuck Liddell's physique there is a deceptive softness to it that is common in high level IMA. There are a number of champions who look clumsy but have deceptive power that puts opponents away.

 

It may well be that the very best use IMA techniques now as there secret weapons.

 

 

Michael

 

Yes! There are some very interesting videos of people like Kyuzo Mifune, who was a high level Judo practitioner, and some of his throws seem as effortless as the throws you'd see in aikido. And Silva is another great example of a modern day fighter. He drops his guard, dances around opponents, dodges, fights really effortlessly, but is able to be devastatingly strong at the same time.

 

At the extreme of yang, there is yin?

[mike1234]

It occurs to me that ultimately the true MMA champions are going to incorporate IMA deeply into there styles. When I see the very highest level, people like 'The Spider' Silva, they seem to be in another time zone then there opponents. When I look at Chuck Liddell's physique there is a deceptive softness to it that is common in high level IMA. There are a number of champions who look clumsy but have deceptive power that puts opponents away.

 

It may well be that the very best use IMA techniques now as there secret weapons.

 

 

Michael

 

I agree that the best MMA fighters have a bit of softness to their technique, but this isn't some top secret "we stole it from Asia" cover up--- It is what is necessary to win at that level of play. Boxers, bouncers, and police officers all know this.

 

IMA sucks for fighting because the students never learn how to use it in a combat-like situation. 99.999% of IMA players wouldn't be able to fight their way out of a paper bag!

 

I think BT is a real IMA player, and he has strong internal skills. He has a video where he says that he can't share certain internal aspects that he learned... Go fight him OP!!!

[VCraigP]

but this isn't some top secret "we stole it from Asia" cover up--- It is what is necessary to win at that level of play. Boxers, bouncers, and police officers all know this.

 

OH, now I get it. This isn't about whether IMA is ever effective, its just about Western and/or American exceptionalism. we don't need nothing from Asia, we have all the answers.

 

IMA sucks for fighting because the students never learn how to use it in a combat-like situation. 99.999% of IMA players wouldn't be able to fight their way out of a paper bag!

 

Oh, wait, I guess it is about IMA after all. BTW you win the prize for the most sweeping silly generalization of the day.

 

I think BT is a real IMA player, and he has strong internal skills. He has a video where he says that he can't share certain internal aspects that he learned... Go fight him OP!!!

 

 

Just kidding, or am I? This thread continues to make me chuckle.

 

Craig

Edited November 29, 2010 by VCraigP