Orbs Fight Challenge!

[Taiji Bum]

Now that we got all that out of the way - I have one request:

 

All I am asking for is an IMA guy who is willing to kick my ass using his internal skill (I am not stupid to ask that from an external martial artist). And I promise to you that I will never hate you and your karma will be clean as a whistle.

This is a very simple deal: You or your teacher kicks my ass using his IMA skill and I will praise him forever.

 

Is this too much to ask for? Somebody out there please feel sorry for me. Show some compassion.

Please, please, please!!!!!!!!!!!!!

As an IMA teacher I hate seeing this. I have seen this challange so many time on so many different martial arts forums that it means to me that IMA has lost all credibilty as a fighting art. Is anyone up to this challange? Orb, can you travel since you made the challenge?

 

Why dont IMA'ers step up? Didn't Yang Chen Fu travel around challenging people to fight? He didn't seem too concerned about karma and he founded an entire family style of Taijiquan, right?

[Trickster_Crow]

hey your that youtube guy that made all those cool videos!!!!! The taiji master!!! Not to jack this thread man but what kind of daoist alchemy for a beginner would you recommend(for like an absolute beginner)? I'm currently practicing semen retention for the next 100 days (havent been super successful so far..I lack the discipline...how can I make sure it pays off besides just not jacking off where should I look to see the benefits?)and I'm also practicing the inner smile...but what else would you recommend

[TheSongsofDistantEarth]

hey your that youtube guy that made all those cool videos!!!!! The taiji master!!! Not to jack this thread man but what kind of daoist alchemy for a beginner would you recommend(for like an absolute beginner)? I'm currently practicing semen retention for the next 100 days (havent been super successful so far..I lack the discipline...how can I make sure it pays off besides just not jacking off where should I look to see the benefits?)and I'm also practicing the inner smile...but what else would you recommend

 

Use the PM function instead of "jacking the thread".

[Taiji Bum]

@TricksterCrow- Taoist alchemy is inherently made for the beginner but if you want a starter practice begin with emptiness meditation. Its hard to go wrong with that. Dont worry about jacking my threads either. I get too many PM's.

 

How many Taiji instructers are there here? Stig and I? Anybody seen a good video of Taiji used in an actual fight or competitively where its recognizable as taiji?

[mike1234]

99% of IMA practitioners do not train in a manner that will help them in a fight. If this guy wants an IMA butt kicking he should contact BlackTaoist... Maybe he will piecing palm you in the 3rd eye, and fully awaken you...

[Spectrum]

gravity rules you

measure carefully

achilles heals

[Sloppy Zhang]

99% of IMA practitioners do not train in a manner that will help them in a fight. If this guy wants an IMA butt kicking he should contact BlackTaoist... Maybe he will piecing palm you in the 3rd eye, and fully awaken you...

 

True though.

 

BT is one of the few who are actually teaching their art in a manner that builds conditioning of the body to use the techniques, as well as actively working to get it recognized in a tournament level.

 

How many Taiji instructers are there here? Stig and I? Anybody seen a good video of Taiji used in an actual fight or competitively where its recognizable as taiji?

 

Back when I frequented bullshido (about a year and a half ago) there were a couple threads dedicated to this. Mostly stuff from sanshou/sanda, finding people who studied tai chi, watching videos, and then finding techniques that actually looked like those used in the forms which were used in fights.

 

There were a couple of really surprisingly good quality fights and vids, as well as techniques. In the time I was there, a couple people tried to come in and slam tai chi, saying stuff like "it sucks" and things like that, and they pretty much got run out of all the threads- the veterans were like, "you don't know what you're talking about, tai chi doesn't suck in and of itself, you just gotta train right".

 

Of course, that raises the question- are they using IMA skills, or are they just strong, conditioned fighters that are using moves which look like tai chi? The bullshido guys don't really care- it's on video, and looks about the same.

 

But to an IMA practitioner, looks may not be good enough, so even the grounds for finding a suitable IMA practitioner to take this challenge would be pretty tough!

[mewtwo]

Hi taijibum glad to see your posting on the forum again.

 

As for the topic anyone that is willing to travel to rapid city south dakota united states I am game to fight you in my own way. not saying i will win but it will be a ocntest none the less. i of course am talking about metal fighting in the form of a meditation contect or chess or go.

[orb]

As an IMA teacher I hate seeing this. I have seen this challange so many time on so many different martial arts forums that it means to me that IMA has lost all credibilty as a fighting art. Is anyone up to this challange? Orb, can you travel since you made the challenge?

 

Why dont IMA'ers step up? Didn't Yang Chen Fu travel around challenging people to fight? He didn't seem too concerned about karma and he founded an entire family style of Taijiquan, right?

 

 

I offered already to travel to 3 or 4 different schools, who were claiming skills and after I had offered to travel to them they either politely declined or gave me one of the BS answers. One of them was in Australia by the way. The reason I would agree to travel so far away is because - I strongly believe that a real master is a very rare opportunity that I would love to meet(like John Chang for example) and the rest of them - here on Taobums are not real IMA practitioners, they just practice an empty form that might have some health benefits, but definitely no martial art efficiency. And whenever I get people's upset responses to my criticism - I already know that I was right about their lack of skill.

So yes, if it is a serious school I would make the effort and come but I want to see a clear internal ability not some ex-professional wrestler that now is wearing a chinese costume and therefore calls himself an IMA master

[orb]

True though.

 

BT is one of the few who are actually teaching their art in a manner that builds conditioning of the body to use the techniques, as well as actively working to get it recognized in a tournament level.

 

 

 

 

Black Taoist is not IMA!!! That's just a naturally strong dude and his skill is all external which makes him a good fighter because of his muscle power and his height and his weight but that's not what I am looking for. I don't care that he spent years in china calling himself a taoist. He is using the same energy as a football player and that's pure physical strength.

If anybody wants to develop that kind of skill - then there's no need to go to China - you'd be better off joining the local YMCA cardio-kickboxing class.

[mike1234]

Are you looking for a chi blast to the chest?

 

Maybe you should visit the yellow bamboo guys and offer to play the role of the attacker.

[NeiChuan]

True though.

 

BT is one of the few who are actually teaching their art in a manner that builds conditioning of the body to use the techniques, as well as actively working to get it recognized in a tournament level.

 

 

 

 

Black Taoist is not IMA!!! That's just a naturally strong dude and his skill is all external which makes him a good fighter because of his muscle power and his height and his weight but that's not what I am looking for. I don't care that he spent years in china calling himself a taoist. He is using the same energy as a football player and that's pure physical strength.

If anybody wants to develop that kind of skill - then there's no need to go to China - you'd be better off joining the local YMCA cardio-kickboxing class.

 

 

But martial arts are meant to be fluid anyway. So even if a system is all about leverage muscles and conditioning will always help.

 

If the fighters sees fit they'll do WHATEVER they want to condition. So if you wana generalize every ima fighter as some weak 125 pound man go ahead.

[orb]

ame='orb' date='25 November 2010 - 09:29 PM' timestamp='1290738542' post='225051']

 

 

 

But martial arts are meant to be fluid anyway. So even if a system is all about leverage muscles and conditioning will always help.

 

If the fighters sees fit they'll do WHATEVER they want to condition. So if you wana generalize every ima fighter as some weak 125 pound man go ahead.

 

Yes, muscles and conditioning are great and a system about leverage muscles is a good way to go but that is not IMA. You don't need to practice Bagua in Wudang to punch hard.

You have to understand where I am coming from: I have a lot of respect for external martial arts.

I have a lot of respect for Black Taoist's external skill. If you pay attention to his training description it includes Sanshou - which in my opinion is the most practical chinese martial art. It is actually among my top 5 favorite sports.

One of my best friends is chinese and he takes a lot of pride for the Sanshou fighters when they go against the Muay-Thai fighters. Every year China goes against Thailand in a Sanshou vs Muay-Thai competition.

Here's a sample

 

 

Those guys are real fighters and I am not stupid trying to challenge one of them plus they are more then happy to fight anybody you don't have to ask them for too long and they don't care about their meridians or any other Qi-based concept.

 

Again please try to understand who I am targeting here. I want to see a skill developed from practicing traditional Tai Chi or Bagua or Xingyiquan or any form of Qigong application in combat (or Tenaga Dalam for that matter) and can use their Qi to stop or counter a regular attack (not a prestaged, unrealistic Aiki-do type of girly strike).

An ex-rugby player that quickly learned how to walk in circles and improvises the Single, Double or Eight Palm Changes is not an internal energy ability. His real skill is still derived from the efficient type of conditioning that you get from a Rugby type of practice and I strongly recommend Rugby over Bagua if you want to have more success in a bar-type of fight.

[orb]

Are you looking for a chi blast to the chest?

 

Maybe you should visit the yellow bamboo guys and offer to play the role of the attacker.

 

Like this ?

 

[mike1234]

Edited November 26, 2010 by mike1234

[taoistfist]

hey orbs. where are you located? i may be able to ablige you.

Edited November 26, 2010 by taoistfist

[Mal]

When I read "Orbs Fight Challenge" I thought we were going to have a fight with these things

 

 

the photo is from Celtic Gardens - readers orb and spirit photos and unfortunatly it's not me.

 

None the less "touching hands" with others can be a great learning opportunity if approached with the right attitude.

[NeiChuan]

Yes, muscles and conditioning are great and a system about leverage muscles is a good way to go but that is not IMA. You don't need to practice Bagua in Wudang to punch hard.

You have to understand where I am coming from: I have a lot of respect for external martial arts.

I have a lot of respect for Black Taoist's external skill. If you pay attention to his training description it includes Sanshou - which in my opinion is the most practical chinese martial art. It is actually among my top 5 favorite sports.

One of my best friends is chinese and he takes a lot of pride for the Sanshou fighters when they go against the Muay-Thai fighters. Every year China goes against Thailand in a Sanshou vs Muay-Thai competition.

Here's a sample

 

 

Those guys are real fighters and I am not stupid trying to challenge one of them plus they are more then happy to fight anybody you don't have to ask them for too long and they don't care about their meridians or any other Qi-based concept.

 

Again please try to understand who I am targeting here. I want to see a skill developed from practicing traditional Tai Chi or Bagua or Xingyiquan or any form of Qigong application in combat (or Tenaga Dalam for that matter) and can use their Qi to stop or counter a regular attack (not a prestaged, unrealistic Aiki-do type of girly strike).

An ex-rugby player that quickly learned how to walk in circles and improvises the Single, Double or Eight Palm Changes is not an internal energy ability. His real skill is still derived from the efficient type of conditioning that you get from a Rugby type of practice and I strongly recommend Rugby over Bagua if you want to have more success in a bar-type of fight.

 

You're still generalizing though. When an IM Artist comes to you and is well conditioned and wants to fight are you just going to tell him "no no I didn't mean you" ?

 

Are you looking for a fight with just IM artists who haven't conditioned there body's and dont spar? Cause that doesn't sound like a fight, it looks like your looking for a punching bag.

[Seth Ananda]

Hey Orb, I do not think you can get too black and white with Internal vs External MA.

 

Most of the great Taiji combatants had done external martial arts as well, as [i believe] is necessary.

 

I do Taiji and used to do Yang Mian, both of which are IMA. They taught me to punch much harder in a variety of different ways, and that has translated through very nicely to my time in MMA training. They increase my balance and fluidity and connective power, which I believe is what they are for.

Sanshou or any other similar art is for Combat endurance, and most Importantly, realistic combat training where you learn to apply all the other cool stuff in a litmus test kind of scenario.

 

Both are absolutely essential. I spent years in a free style Karate school that did 40 mins of padded full contact sparring every class. I got good at being in a fight, but they did not know how to train me to strike properly.

 

When I first felt Internal power, and the kind of shock it produced in my being on the receiving end of it, I had tears of happiness for the learning opportunity.

 

One thing I noticed though is that my teacher, when ever he asked me to attack him, I always moved in and punched him in the head {lightly lol}. The Irony is that his punches could fold me in half, but because he didn't do any external or realistic fighting he did not have a good understanding of how to apply it. That to me is sad.

 

It is also does not make sense to me to challenge some one who never actually practices fighting in a realistic situation. Of course they always get toasted.

 

I really Like this clip. Its long but it shows Taiji people [and others i think] engaged in multiple discipline training. I especially like the push hands mixed up with the grappling...

 

 

I hope you find something of what I say interesting, and I do think BT is an internal martial artist in the proper sense of the word.

I look forward to many years of training, Taiji and sanshou or similar arts. I personally need more of a ground game before I accept any challenges, but I do want to enter some fights one day.

 

Seth.

[Spectrum]

Kickback that Internet Armchair

Edited November 27, 2010 by Spectrum

[VCraigP]

Could this be the oldest discussion topic on the internets??

 

My view is that Taiji is potentially devestating. however I don't think one student in 10000 is afforded the opportunity to really develop and be exposed to the full curriculum of Taiji training as it had existed in the past.

This means that Taiji players rarely develop to their full potential. Probably more people exist in China who have experienced that level of training, but I doubt that proportion is very much higher than 1 in 10000 also.

 

And there is a reason this is the oldest discussion topic on the internet. Words can never finish this argument.

 

Craig

[Sloppy Zhang]

Words can never finish this argument.

 

Craig

 

True. The only people who can finish this argument are the people who have been called out. And you don't really see them stepping up too often.

 

Then some of the people who DO step up, well, there's a lot of debate about whether they are who they say they are. Some people say guys like BT are real internal guys, others say they aren't, and are using external shortcuts. Others say so-and-so is a great internal guy, then that person gets the crap beat out of them, and the people are saying, "well he wasn't using REAL such-and-such", or "well it was a fight in the ring" and whatever.

 

So, yeah. It'd be nice if we had a modern day version of Yang Luchan, Yang Banhou, Chen Fake, Sun Lutang, or any of the other famous internal guys that everyone likes to tell stories of. Who did these guys teach? Do any of these students have these capabilities? Are these just tall tales? Were these people just geniuses? Were they just lying completely? Was there a grain of truth?

[VCraigP]

 

So, yeah. It'd be nice if we had a modern day version of Yang Luchan, Yang Banhou, Chen Fake, Sun Lutang, or any of the other famous internal guys that everyone likes to tell stories of. Who did these guys teach? Do any of these students have these capabilities? Are these just tall tales? Were these people just geniuses? Were they just lying completely? Was there a grain of truth?

 

yes you are getting close to what I think I was trying to say.

How many modern people have any inkling whatsoever about real combat arts before gunpowder. Fighting bandits, maybe wild animals. Living in nature. Living off of the land. Being trained according to your masters absolute will, no choice in the matter. Actual death matches. Two masters go into the wilderness, one comes back alive.

 

does the fact that one cannot find a willing and fully capable IMA to prove to all the skeptics what they want proven (whatever that really is) actually indicate that IMA are not capable of developing true superior power?

 

Its a mystery. But hey we all know MMA is superior to all that has preceded it and that the western scientific paradigm has already solved all of our problems.

 

also acupuncture doesn't work and qi isn't real either.

 

Craig

[Spectrum]

the fool on the hill

[thelerner]

I accept. My IMA is astral projection. The time is NOW!

 

Hah, I see you, you're on the crapper grabbing for the toilet paper. I scream my intent and you ignore me; to your own peril. HiYahhh. Its horrible, I can't describe the scene, another win, I follow the silver cord back to the computer.

 

 

Michael

 

 

 

I'm spending way to much time with my Writers Group.