Money Karma?

[Maddie]

I generally don't really like to think about money and career stuff too much, but sometimes the situation becomes so problematic that I can't help but wonder how this topic ties into the bigger picture. I just totaled up my past earnings for the past 19 years and averaged it, and my average earnings of 19 years of adult life equals $8603. a year. I don't know why I do not seem to ever be able to get a good job, and make any money, but since this has gone on for so long it does make one wonder WHY? I am not an alcoholic or a drug user, I am pretty responsible and a hard worker, so what gives?! Is this karma? or what?

[Aetherous]

You explain the problem yourself...

 

I generally don't really like to think about money and career stuff too much

 

If you made money a bigger part of your life, you would naturally get more of it. Not necessarily in a magical way, although many believe that helps...but perhaps you'd try for better paying jobs/save what money you do have/invest/etc.

 

Money is a really good thing to think about. Maybe spend 20 minutes each day taking care of financial stuff, and planning.

[LBDaoist]

One of the most insightful philosophies that I have had passed along to me is that of the "four pillars". In our lives we have four pillars that we need to maintain. Those pillars are; our health, our relationships, our finances and our career / job / work. Only after all four are in balanced and in harmony can we turn our attention to higher pursuits. When one is out of wack, it undermines the others.

 

For example, if you are having problems with your career you might have problems with money. If you have problems with health, you might not be able to work as much. Your health problems might lead to doctor's bills. If you have relationship problems, they might distract you when you should be focused on work. If you do not make enough money, you might not be in the position to contribute equally to a solid relationship. There are probably infinite interactions among the four that one can recognize.

 

It has been said, "If you enjoy what you do, you will never work a day in your life." Along a similar line of thought, if you focus your efforts on empowering others to help themselves, you will find the rewards come to you in round about kinds of ways. Realize that your time is valuable. It is not bad to expect compensation for what you do.

[Gerard]

Is this karma?

 

Yes.

 

 

 

I saw several one of them tied up like that at the local Chinese supermarket yesterday and thoughts of releasing them sprung to my mind. But honestly, I couldn't do that or I'd have got myself into trouble and asking the owner to stop selling crabs wouldn't be a realistic option either. That's the nature of existence.

 

About your particular situation, just try to make the best of what you got and keep going. Never lose focus of your spiritual practice. Have you considered ordination?

[DalTheJigsaw123]

Bumpin'

I am somewhat having the same problem.

I am starting to think about it more.

[mike1234]

There's a saying-- In America you are paid exactly what you are worth, and not a penny more.

 

Your problem is that you are only worth $9,000/yr to your employer.

 

1) You remedy your low market value by developing a skill set that is worth more money to the marketplace.

 

2) Start a low overhead business and follow the mechanical process that makes money.

 

No spiritual riddles needed. America provides you a consumer base of sheeples that will buy snuggies. Take advantage of this by providing real or perceived value to them.

[Apech]

I think sometimes our values make us think we shouldn't want or need money or material wealth or property. Actually it is healthier to think that as a cultivator the universe would benefit by allowing you enough money so that you have the time and energy to devote to practice. I'm not saying that money will fall into your lap if yu change your mind set - but it is a beginning. There are creative visualization practices for gaining the money you need. I'm not recommending them I'm just saying they are out there if you look for them.

[Jetsun]

No I don't think it's Karma, people have used Karma theory in this way in many Asian countries for a long time as a form of mind control as the vast majority of the wealth in many Asian countries is controlled by a very small percentage of the population so to stop them rising up in revolutionary arms and changing the situation they told the people it was their Karma why it was like this. It's another form of mind control hypnotising the masses to keep them placid and asleep.

[Maddie]

Um so far I have not really seen much of a taoist explination. If I had wanted the typical western point of view on this I would not have asked on this forum. I'm looking for a "bigger picture" explination.

[mike1234]

Um so far I have not really seen much of a taoist explination. If I had wanted the typical western point of view on this I would not have asked on this forum. I'm looking for a "bigger picture" explination.

 

The big picture is that you have not taking the steps to make more money. I wouldn't take advice on money from traditions that come out of nations that make their money by pimping out their workers for pennies.

[Maddie]

The big picture is that you have not taking the steps to make more money. I wouldn't take advice on money from traditions that come out of nations that make their money by pimping out their workers for pennies.

 

how do you know which steps I have made or not made? I just earned a Bachelors degree, I have a medical assistant diploma, I opened a cafe for a while, I have done all the things that they say you should do, and that others have done sucessfully and still..... so this is why at this point in my life I'm holding the big "WTF" sign over my head and wondering what the hell is up??!!

[mike1234]

how do you know which steps I have made or not made? I just earned a Bachelors degree, I have a medical assistant diploma, I opened a cafe for a while, I have done all the things that they say you should do, and that others have done sucessfully and still..... so this is why at this point in my life I'm holding the big "WTF" sign over my head and wondering what the hell is up??!!

 

So you are looking for some taoist answer to why you failed at running a cafe, why you couldn't make more money with a medical assistant diploma, and why you've average 8k/yr over a 19yr span... Your situation isn't special, and it is not beyond the common sense answers that were given. Good luck-- Let's hope that the next 19yrs will be better.

[Maddie]

So you are looking for some taoist answer to why you failed at running a cafe, why you couldn't make more money with a medical assistant diploma, and why you've average 8k/yr over a 19yr span

 

Yes

[manitou]

What a great question and a great topic. I, myself, am one who cannot manage to rub two nickels together. By the grace of Whatever I live on a pension.

Part of my identity is shamanic - a new age shaman with a developed third eye would triangulate this situation to determine why you are manifesting the things you are manifesting. If you are continuously manifesting lack, there is a reason your consciousness (actually, more like subconscious) has been given the signal to manifest continual lack. The shaman would put one end of the tripod in Truth (which is Love, and this is the eye that the shaman would use as a lens), the second leg of the tripod in the current manifestation of your life situation, and the third leg of the tripod would be placed at the base of a childhood memory that repeatedly comes to your mind. (It's up to you to supply the memory, but it might have something to do with being guilty for having too much, or the message that there are starving kids in the world, or perhaps a vision of The Ugly American) Or...a whole bunch of us here seem have really developed social consciences and I suspect that you're one of them...and it's hard for me to be truly happy and into "obtaining more and bigger stuff for myself" when we're already so very privileged, after all's said and done. At least we're sitting here with computers and not grubbing around for food in an alley somewhere. There is a small voice that reminds me of that continually, for some reason. I'd just as soon not have the voice at all at some level, life would be easier. Just like life would be easier if I weren't kundalini active and have crazy internal electrical happenings and ringing ears. But....here we are. On this path that seems to demand total devotion, no matter how often we stray or decide to walk away from it 'cuz it's too much trouble. Wow. I'm glad you're all here. I'm glad I'm not here alone.

[Maddie]

What a great question and a great topic. I, myself, am one who cannot manage to rub two nickels together. By the grace of Whatever I live on a pension.

Part of my identity is shamanic - a new age shaman with a developed third eye would triangulate this situation to determine why you are manifesting the things you are manifesting. If you are continuously manifesting lack, there is a reason your consciousness (actually, more like subconscious) has been given the signal to manifest continual lack. The shaman would put one end of the tripod in Truth (which is Love, and this is the eye that the shaman would use as a lens), the second leg of the tripod in the current manifestation of your life situation, and the third leg of the tripod would be placed at the base of a childhood memory that repeatedly comes to your mind. (It's up to you to supply the memory, but it might have something to do with being guilty for having too much, or the message that there are starving kids in the world, or perhaps a vision of The Ugly American) Or...a whole bunch of us here seem have really developed social consciences and I suspect that you're one of them...and it's hard for me to be truly happy and into "obtaining more and bigger stuff for myself" when we're already so very privileged, after all's said and done. At least we're sitting here with computers and not grubbing around for food in an alley somewhere. There is a small voice that reminds me of that continually, for some reason. I'd just as soon not have the voice at all at some level, life would be easier. Just like life would be easier if I weren't kundalini active and have crazy internal electrical happenings and ringing ears. But....here we are. On this path that seems to demand total devotion, no matter how often we stray or decide to walk away from it 'cuz it's too much trouble. Wow. I'm glad you're all here. I'm glad I'm not here alone.

 

Ok finally I've get a response that is of the type I was looking for lol. Do you do this shaministic viewing yourself? One thing you said that rang a bell is that I distinctly remember when I was in 4th grade being at McDonalds eating one of their crappy burgers and I started crying cause I was thinking of all the starving kids in India, and also mad cause it seemed like none of the fat kids stuffing their faces could have cared less, and I felt kind of ashamed about it all. Plus my father was/is an oil company exectutive and a huge arse as well and I really don't want to be like him at all. Perhaps I came to associate making large amounts of money with being greedy, selfish, arrogant in my subconscience?

 

*edit: oh and admittidly I tend towards the idealistic side of things, and I don't think these kinds of people tend to make lots of money

Edited November 29, 2010 by dmattwads

[manitou]

That would be my guess, that you came to associate money with something greedy and arrogant. Somehow I got that message too, early on. Yes, I do the triangulation for people.

When you find the memory (I think you've found it with your McDonald's experience) I would get a piece of paper and write as much as you can about it. Just get it out. Try to see where it originated or at what moment you "saw" your father's lifestyle as obnoxious. Then the trick is to imprint to the "opposite". This would be to give something away. If you were here, I would conduct a ceremony for you, complete with rattles and drums. I would have you stand in a power circle that you drew on the ground. I would come up behind you and whisper in your ear to get your soul's attention. I would talk to your innards, the intelligence that gives your body the messages it gets. I would tell it that in a prior life you were one of those starving children, and in this life it's your turn to not starve and have a more comfortable life. That seems to be the only way my psyche can live with the inequities of life that we see. I would whisper that in this life, because you have more, you have to give more. I would then devise some sort of action for you to take wherein you "imprint" sharing what you have with the world. Perhaps something as simple as burying a McDonald's hamburger in the ground to "share" with others in the world. I'd have to give that some thought, but there would be an imprint for your soul.

For your soul to feel comfortable with earning and accumulating money, you may need to do something similar. How about making a pledge to yourself that for every, say, $100 you earn, you will do something to put back into society - something small in your community, etc. Some sort of device where your soul feels like it's 'giving back' some of the booty you earn in the future. that way, you will be motivated to earn more so that you can give back more - which, if I'm reading you correctly, is really what blows your skirt up.

[Maddie]

Manitou

 

You know its been a very interesting time since you write your first responce yesterday. It was like as soon as I read the sentence where you mentioned a childhood memeory it was like *poof out of no where came back that McDonald's memory out of no where. Then later that evening I was at the gym working out a bit. In comes this very pretty girl (and the fact that I am in celibate monk mode at the moment is besides the point). I finally caught myself hearing this automatic voice in my head that said "you don't deserve her". Now I am no longer even thinking about the girl, but about that automatic voice in my head, which I realized had been speaking to me for a very long time, but I did not realize it. So then I realized that this voice inside me had been telling me for a long time not only that I did not deserve a nice girl, but that I did not deserve pretty much anything nice at all. I think I was almost more shocked that I actually realized what had been going on than anything.

 

So this morning I woke up and its time for my morning Qigong practice. I was still thinking about this incident last night so I decided I would try to figue out where this "voice" was coming from and work on that. I decided to start with my spleen since that is the organ that is all about worry. I theorized that perhaps that I worry about rejection when it comes to pretty girls. So after a few minuets of doing the spleen inner smile and healing sound I just did not feel like I was hitting "pay dirt". So I stopped and decided that a voice saying "you are not good enough, you don't deserve that" is not a voice of worry, but a voice of anger and meaness. So I began to do the same thing but this time with my liver, and bigo I instantly hit pay dirt. As I began the inner smile and healing sounds in my liver all these repressed memories that I had totally forgottn of my father always telling me "you don't deserve this or that" just came bubbeling up and rushing out. Then all these feelings from varoius points in my life of not being good enough for good things came out as well.

 

Then I got extemely tired which sort of goes along with another issue I have been facing and trying to figure out lately as well, and this is my fatigue I have been experiencing. I'm starting to really believe that any kind of detox process either physical or energetic uses a large amount of energy, because everytime I do something where I feel like I make progess in removing a blockage (which I have been doing a lot of lately) I feel totally exhausted aferwards. In this case today it happened to be my liver, but pretty much every day lately I am finding something somewhere and removing it and then feeling totally drained afterwards. I guess all the things that I mentioned and have been talking about lately are somehow realted.

[manitou]

The reason I suggest to do the writing about your memory is because we are so very good at fooling ourselves when we're just thinking about this stuff - this 'going in' stuff. Please do grab a pen and don't shortchange yourself on this important revelation. It's worth taking about a half hour and doing it. Things will magically come out of your pen (because you're committed to a sentence or finishing a thought), whereas if you're just cogitating this stuff, your brain will weave and bob around so it doesn't get too uncomfortable for you. Baloney. Get a pen. Write. You'll get deeper revelations.

Then the imprint. The actual physical act, as I mentioned before: bury a Big Mac. Put it in a box along with a photo of some starving kids. Commend it to the earth, along with some words about offering this food up to those who have none. Do this from the heart; sit down on the earth and talk to it. Do this as a ceremony; perhaps someone else can do some drumming or rattling. First prepare the area, smudge with burning sage or sweetgrass - if you don't have those things, grab some pine needles or anything burnable that throws off a good clean scent. It's the Intent that you're dealing with, not worrying so much about the details. There's no 'magic way' to do this. Just ceremonialize it. Then, once you've finished, zip up the ceremony somehow - I'l usually walk around the outside of the circle with my staff and close the ceremony with gratitude for spirit, and the word "Washte", which pretty much has the same connotation as Namaste, only it's the indigenous word that the Native Americans would have used.

Then the continual maintainance. That refers to the giving I was talking about earlier. On a long-term basis find a way to continually give back - it doesn't have to be a big deal, only something between you and your heart that makes things a little easier for someone else. Maybe a monthly donation to a charity you prefer - preferably one close to home that you can actually see some results. Or if a charity isn't down your alley, maybe a pledge to be a big brother or something - you know what I'm getting at. That'll be the grease that keeps your financial wheel turning.

I too share your feeling that I'm worth nothing and would certainly never deserve anyone wonderful. There's a couple tricks here I would recommend too. Can you find a picture of yourself as a baby or a young boy? Can you frame it and place it on your nightstand? Can you say good morning to him each morning and tell him you're going to take care of him today? To feed him the best food, to find a nice mate for him? This sounds so hokey but I had to do it and it worked to some degree, at least to get me started. Again, you might have a childhood memory here that needs triangulating, but in reality on something like this you can change your mindset with Love. All that means is that it takes the focus off yourself and your perceived unworthiness and focus on the situations around you. What can you bring to them to elevate the situation? Is there someone you come in contact with daily that is rather off-putting, for example - but what if you were to take the time periodically to listen to what that person had to say? If they're off-putting to you, they're probably off-putting to everyone else too. Maybe nobody listens to them at all. There are so many ways we can find to love each other, just in simple kind ways. But it does involve taking the focus of self and/or self-pity (which you don't seem to have) and getting into LIFE in a different way. One day at a time. One person at a time. One situation at a time. There a way to infuse Love into every situation in our daily lives, even if we're waiting in a line at Walmart.

[thelerner]

No I don't think it's Karma, people have used Karma theory in this way in many Asian countries for a long time as a form of mind control.

/quote]

 

I agree with the first part of this. Sometimes its not karma and not you, its the IT, the world. We have been going through a long ongoing recession (or depression). Its been a lousy time financially for the majority of people. For many this is all they know. Things get better. I think there are some signs of recovery happening (slowly) now.

 

Keep an eye out for opportunities, but remember to lean on the other pillars of life- friends, family, spiritual practice. All of them as important as money.

 

Michael

[Birch]

Cool thread!

 

Manitou, interesting ceremonial and about the writing part.

 

i think another thing is that most people just aren't properly taught about how money "works" - i.e. they're taught something along the lines of "work hard and..." And that just doesn't work for everything.

 

What does it work for??

 

"Causality" in the financial world is something extremely difficult to fathom - which is why there's an entire "science" dedicated to it called economics. I think taking yourself off the wrong "causal" train regarding anything is a good idea.

 

We could go into money vs prosperity - which is something along the lines of what Manitou and others have said.

[Maddie]

ok now my "WTF" sing above my head is huge and blinking. Since I got to San Antonio I have been told by two places that they would hire me. The first place still says that they are waiting for "paperwork" and this is after a month practically. I was supposedly hired for another job the day before last and was supposed to start today and then they called me last night and said they are reevaluating the possition. Before I came to Texas the only thing I could find was delivering pizza, and before I came to Washington, I was working for Starbucks in Alaska. Before returning to Alaska I had tried to move to Texas before and spent 7 months looking for a job, and finding nothing. I could go on, but I think just that little sample is enough to get the gist of my career life. It's not because I don't want a job, or money, or anything like that, cause I do, in fact I have no idea how I am going to pay my rent, so wanting money is the first thing on my mind right now. I see other boobs with less education, intelligence, and work ethic than me get these pretty good jobs, and so I'm left standing there with the big neon "WTF" sign over my head. In a past life was I a big fat capitalist pig who paid his workers low wages like Scrouge? I'm so utter fed up with this, as it has been going on for a long time and I'm sick of it. What the hell do I need to do to change this?

[Maddie]

Hey dmatt,

 

Hang in there. I hope your struggles lead to positive outcomes.

 

A thought:

Have you considered creating your own personal practice sub forum? From what I've gathered, I have a hunch that you might benefit from compiling your cultivation practices and life challenges in one easy-to-find spot. The cool thing about having your own sub forum is that you can create as many posts on multiple topics therein. A natural outcome of a PP log is that you will develop allies that check in with you on your path and offer you advice.

 

Again, just a thought.

 

Yea I requested one of those before too, but I guess getting one has been about as sucessful as the rest of what I do lol.

 

p.s. btw I found your article interesting

Edited December 2, 2010 by dmattwads

[Maddie]

As with all the other issues I have dealt with while on TTB I have been doing a fair amount of research into this issue, and so far the most likely explination I have come up with for these money issues I have is that its a Root chakra issue, as the root chakra has to do with issues concerning physical survivial (money and rent). Since I have begun to do the cold draw I have sort of been in a hurry to resolve sexual issues and sort of wisked all that jing past my root chakra point straight to my sacral chakra area. On that note I suppose that the thing to do is to focus now on my root chakra and see what results I get from that. The fact that I have gotten very good results from focusing on my sacral chakra encourages me to try this with my root chakra now.

[Aetherous]

ok now my "WTF" sing above my head is huge and blinking. Since I got to San Antonio I have been told by two places that they would hire me. The first place still says that they are waiting for "paperwork" and this is after a month practically. I was supposedly hired for another job the day before last and was supposed to start today and then they called me last night and said they are reevaluating the possition. Before I came to Texas the only thing I could find was delivering pizza, and before I came to Washington, I was working for Starbucks in Alaska. Before returning to Alaska I had tried to move to Texas before and spent 7 months looking for a job, and finding nothing. I could go on, but I think just that little sample is enough to get the gist of my career life. It's not because I don't want a job, or money, or anything like that, cause I do, in fact I have no idea how I am going to pay my rent, so wanting money is the first thing on my mind right now. I see other boobs with less education, intelligence, and work ethic than me get these pretty good jobs, and so I'm left standing there with the big neon "WTF" sign over my head. In a past life was I a big fat capitalist pig who paid his workers low wages like Scrouge? I'm so utter fed up with this, as it has been going on for a long time and I'm sick of it. What the hell do I need to do to change this?

 

Simple: apply to more jobs. It's unfortunate that 2 places are dicking you around, but that's what happens sometimes to everyone, especially these days. You don't have bad money karma. So just keep trying.

 

I know you would rather hear some mystical explanation, but it really comes down to trying harder. You shouldn't be satisfied with crappy jobs like pizza delivery...keep looking and putting yourself out there while you work those jobs.

[Maddie]

I guess I've been somewhat supprised at a lot of the resonces here so far. It seems that a lot of people who practice cultivation and have no trouble believing that energy is behind our health and spiritual development, can not seem to wrap their minds around the notion that our energy also affects our "outer life" as well, including our econimic situation. The reason I say this, is because when I was trying other methods for my inner life nothing really seemed to do the trick until I began to work on my inner energy. If this has been the case, then why would it not stand to reason that the vibrations we send out into the universe do not affect out outter life as well. Why do the rules stop just because its money, or something else that is not in our paradim of understanding.

From what I have read of the Root chakra and its blockages, it would seem that my problem is very much related to a blockage there. Since the same principles have held up with other things I have wanted to change about myself, why would this be any different? Why do we not want to take a peek behind the curtain when it comes to money?