Ching > Chi > Shen > Void

[Shimo]

Hi,

 

Sorry if this is not the proper place to post this, but the forum wouldn't allow me to post in the Tao section.

 

Lately I've become very interested in Nei-kung and Tao, but don't know that much about it. It's said that the path is to convert Ching to Chi, and Chi to Shen, and ultimately Shen to Shu (Void). Perhaps we could call those different levels of energy where Ching is the lowest in vibrational rate. Within each level, there are two polarities, the Yin (negative) and Yang (positive). So for example there's Yin Chi, and Yang Chi. Does that mean there's also Yin Ching and Yang Ching, and Yin Shen and Yang Shen?

 

The famous guy John Chang who's seen on video catching paper on fire with his Yin & Yang Chi said we need both Yin and Yang chi to do such things. That makes sense to me since it's said that creating and creativity comes when Yin & Yang meet, fire & electricity. On the other hand, Taoist Master Ni Hua Chin says that we do not want Yin energy to become immortal beings, but we only want yang energy. He says that negative beings have a lot of yin and not so much yang, that common people have both, and immortals only have Yang energy. So now I'm really confused. Is it bad to seek Yin energy so that we can use it with Yang energy to create?

 

To add to the confusion, I've read in various Channeling and UFO contact information that there's no creativity in the spiritual realms, that everything that can be created is already created there. Recently it occurred to me that Taoist Master Ni Hua Chin says to become immortal we need to get rid of Yin energy. And so if we become immortal and enter the spirit realms with only Yang, then how can we create without both Yin & Yang?

 

All of this makes sense to me, yet it still leaves unanswered questions. Should we want to accumulate both Yin & Yang? And if we do, then does that mean we can't become immortal and enter the spiritual realms?

 

Here are a few quotes in Taoist Master Ni Hua Chin's book, "The Taoist inner view of the Universe and immortal realm,"

 

"First, there are the shiens who enjoy immortality with pure and light yang energy. Then comes the balanced human beings with yin and yang. Once they lose their lives they become dim ghosts with only decreasing yin energy."

 

"Human beings are both spirit and matter, formed by the subtle and gross. As the yang energy increases and the yin energy decreases, one earns one's ascension to the Heavenly realm to enjoy Heavenly blessing. When the yin grows, the yang goes away. One walks the way of devolution close to the realm of shadow."

 

"The balanced high human beings gather yang energy from the vast universe until their spiritual moon is full. They fly away, ascending from the earthly realm to the highest realm of immortality."

 

"With pure yang energy, promote progression and ascension, expand the path of harmony, and finally achieve oneness with the eternal Tao."

 

Thanks,

Shimo

Edited November 29, 2010 by Shimo

[zerostao]

howdy,

thanks Shimo for the interesting post. seems anytime we do get an answer it just leads to more questions ; )

[trailmaker]

howdy,

thanks Shimo for the interesting post. seems anytime we do get an answer it just leads to more questions ; )

 

Right - essential to discussion - the more you know, the more you know you don't know...

 

With discussion, sometimes exponentially closer to source - if only for a moment...

[gendao]

The famous guy John Chang who's seen on video catching paper on fire with his Yin & Yang Chi said we need both Yin and Yang chi to do such things. That makes sense to me since it's said that creating and creativity comes when Yin & Yang meet, fire & electricity. On the other hand, Taoist Master Ni Hua Chin says that we do not want Yin energy to become immortal beings, but we only want yang energy. He says that negative beings have a lot of yin and not so much yang, that common people have both, and immortals only have Yang energy. So now I'm really confused. Is it bad to seek Yin energy so that we can use it with Yang energy to create?

 

To add to the confusion, I've read in various Channeling and UFO contact information that there's no creativity in the spiritual realms, that everything that can be created is already created there. Recently it occurred to me that Taoist Master Ni Hua Chin says to become immortal we need to get rid of Yin energy. And so if we become immortal and enter the spirit realms with only Yang, then how can we create without both Yin & Yang?

 

All of this makes sense to me, yet it still leaves unanswered questions. Should we want to accumulate both Yin & Yang? And if we do, then does that mean we can't become immortal and enter the spiritual realms?

 

Here are a few quotes in Taoist Master Ni Hua Chin's book, "The Taoist inner view of the Universe and immortal realm,"

 

"First, there are the shiens who enjoy immortality with pure and light yang energy. Then comes the balanced human beings with yin and yang. Once they lose their lives they become dim ghosts with only decreasing yin energy."

 

"Human beings are both spirit and matter, formed by the subtle and gross. As the yang energy increases and the yin energy decreases, one earns one's ascension to the Heavenly realm to enjoy Heavenly blessing. When the yin grows, the yang goes away. One walks the way of devolution close to the realm of shadow."

 

"The balanced high human beings gather yang energy from the vast universe until their spiritual moon is full. They fly away, ascending from the earthly realm to the highest realm of immortality."

 

"With pure yang energy, promote progression and ascension, expand the path of harmony, and finally achieve oneness with the eternal Tao."

Good question!

 

But despite fusing yin & yang qi together in the dantian in level 4...MoPai also maintains that taking your yang qi with you is what enables immortality.

"This is a specialty of our type of training, that after death you retain the characteristics and powers you had when you were alive. When you pass Level Four (5), you can take all your yang qi with you." - p 44

 

"The issue of ultimate enlightenment or immortality is one that has been written about in detail and requires several volumes to address. In short, there seem to be different stages to the game. From the point of view of John's lineage, the first stage is achieved by completing Level Four (actually Level Five, though I have not addressed the distinction to avoid confusion), which ensures that you can take all your yang energy with you when you die." - p 190, The Magus Of Java

So, taking your yang qi with you is still the name of the immortal game...

 

But I do agree, the discussion about yin & yang qi in Kosta's book does seem self-contradictory and confusing.

Edited December 3, 2010 by vortex

[Shimo]

That makes sense. So it's good to collect both yin and yang chi, but upon physical death we want to discard the yin and only keep yang?

 

As for yin yang, I always thought yin and yang were attracted to each other because they're opposite polarities. Kind of like electrons and protons except chi is much finer matter. Shen is mental / consciousness, and I'd therefore imagine it's energy on the mental plane. Since chi is one level lower than shen, I'd imagine chi is astral energy. And then that would make ching physical matter. I've read that ching is ... sperm? Maybe I forgot. Perhaps more specifically, maybe yang ching is sperm and yin ching is etheric sort of on the order of ectoplasm.

 

Hmm, on the other hand, I recall reading that physical plane laws is such that opposites attract, astral plane laws is such that opposites have weak attraction, and mental plane laws is such that like attracts like.

 

Shimo

[Apech]

Moved to discussion thread and bumped.

[Aetherous]

I saw this post a while back, and was hoping someone knowledgeable would respond. Understanding this stuff is quite a challenge. I have yet to see someone make a decent clarification on these Taoist distinctions (like how do I discern what yin shen is compared to yang shen )...

 

My personal view is that studying the first chapter of Taoist Yoga is very important for understanding/experiencing the majority of Taoist alchemy. Fixing spirit in its original cavity. Basically nothing else really works without that first step. It may seem to, but it's mostly just placebo effect. I guess you could say that cultivating "essential nature" first is like super-powering the rest of the internal processes. I suggest for those who are interested to find a Taoist school which teaches such a practice.

 

I personally don't trust any information of Mo Pai, or the opinions of Ni Hua Chin. But that's just me.

[Thunder_Gooch]

I was searching on google and found this.

 

Yang chi is like sun light, life energy, it is active and moves of it's own accord, it is aware but not consciousness.

 

Yin chi is like gravity, empty energy, it is passive and bends and warps space to bring things to it, it is like sleeping consciousness with no awareness to it.

 

Supposedly we are only alive because we have both. Our bodies are yin shells filled with yang energy, if the yang energy runs out we die. If the yin container is ruptured we die and the yang goes back into the environment at death.

 

Yang unconstrained radiates back into the universe, and needs a yin container like a balloon.

 

As I understand it when yin and yang chi are fused as one, yang no longer needs to be contained by yin, as the fusion has resulted in void.

 

Maybe this is Shen to void?

 

 

You can read more about it in the Magus of java around page 50 or so in that chapter.

Edited April 4, 2012 by More_Pie_Guy

[Trunk]

Well, my understanding is a mess - but here are two strands of the speghetti (my interpretation, not necessarily classical, certainly over simplified).

 

Seen through Chinese medicine, things can be in excess, deficient, or in balance. So (even if we stay to the two most simple intertwined concept) yin & yang can be yin/yang in balance-integration~harmony or out of it.

 

Similarly in the psychological and alchemical, they talk about True Yin/Yang and False Yin/Yang. (What exactly 'they' mean, read up, ponder, see a Teacher.)

 

Even digestion is (partly) seen as a succession of stages that separate "the turbid" from "the clear".

 

Hope that helps.

[thelerner]

Even if the highest truth is x + y = z, it means nothing. It means nothing and gives you absolutely nothing. In my opinion the power behind a person like John Chang is long hard time on the mat. You begin with 4 hours a day as a beginner from there it expands greatly.

 

In other words, whatever the 'secret' is, its meaningless unless you start on the 1000's of hours of practice needed to get up the first few rungs.

[de_paradise]

They are just characterizations, sketches of a map of a larger territory, meant to help you understand something one, in the end, needs to feel in order to understand, all with the objective to get to a higher level of cultivation. An analogy is a complex map of a human biology made by university professors, but simplified to teach 9th graders, and then further simplified to teach young kids so they know how to care for their bodies in basic ways. If you take the simple sketch maps for kids as objective maps, you are going to be sniffing at the finger pointing at the moon. When you use a computer, you dont first need to understand software programming and IC chips and hardware manufacture, you just need to click on icons. Just click on the icons. The real work of cultivation is finding the right icons to click on, then click them.

[Ya Mu]

...

In other words, whatever the 'secret' is, its meaningless unless you start on the 1000's of hours of practice needed to get up the first few rungs.

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