Dabbling in bagua zhang

[sean]

BTW, if that's you on the horse. Keep your feet on the balls of the feet in the stirups with your heels down. Otherwise if you fall off one of your feet could get hung up in a stirup. If that was a one time deal then save the tip for next time.

Nice tip, thanks. Any tips for a sore ass and a weird gait for the 24 hours that follow a long ride?

 

Sean

[Baguakid]

Nice tip, thanks. Any tips for a sore ass and a weird gait for the 24 hours that follow a long ride?

 

Sean

 

Ha ha... yep, that's what a good woman is for... LOL..

[JessOBrien]

In terms of elbow positioning, in my training with Kumar there is a major emphasis on the principle of "Chun Jin Dewi Jiao" (that's how it's pronounced, not sure of the pin yin). Sink the Shoulder, Drop the Elbow.

 

Kumar is near fanatical about dropping the elbow, growing the arm out of the shoulder, connecting to the spine, Lower Tan Tian and the legs. This is something that anyone who does his Ba Gua distance program will be hearing a lot about. I mean a LOT!

 

Numerous times he's walked by and smacked my elbow from below, to test if my elbow is dropped. If someone's elbow was over extended it would result in extreme pain, and if in a fighting situation would result in a broken elbow quite easily. This is one of his favorite martial arts techniques for people who over reach when they punch.

 

So for anyone who has trained Ba Gua with Kumar, dropping the elbow is going to be considered a principle of the highest importance.

 

In terms of his lineage, his last teacher had learned during a time when the Yin Fu/ Cheng Ting Hua division of the system was not yet set in stone. He bowed to Cheng Yu Long, but he was mentored by multiple students of Cheng Ting Hua, Yin Fu and other disciples of the founder. So his Ba Gua system is a mixture, and could be described as half Yin Fu, half Cheng Ting Hua.

 

Sincerely,

 

Jess O

[sean]

Interesting Jess, thanks for that background.

 

PS - This paragraph of yours from a few posts back is really sticking with me. Seems like great advice, thanks for sharing.

After training in his school for quite a while now, my advice is to train step by step, but don't hold yourself back. Too many of my classmates miss opportunities because they say "Im not ready for Double Palm" or "I'm not advanced enough for rou shou" or whatever. Take everything you can get, by hook or by crook. Beg borrow or steal. Work on the foundation, but if something more advanced comes along get it and keep it and later it will come in handy. His system is a big cycle, it doesn't matter where you jump in on the cycle because it will always go full circle and come back to where you began.

[Mal]

[gendao]

Also, his free introduction to zuowang meditation mp3 is excellent.

Someone mind uploading this one up somewhere?

[sean]

One uping other arts, always a good seed for a discussion While I do agree most of the current Tai Chi forms are not actually that old, the creation myth is core components developed by Chang San-fang.

Bagua > Tai Chi. ;p

 

Hah, totally not trying to imply that. Hope I haven't offended you or anyone by even posting the quote. In some ways it's out of context as the entire book is devoted to speaking extremely highly of both arts without downplaying either.

 

I guess I was just kind of surprised by the quote because I'd always just assumed Tai Chi is THE Taoist movement art, whereas Bagua, Xing Yi are more inherently martial. To read of Bagua's distinctly Taoist roots was fascinating.

 

Sean

[sean]

Someone mind uploading this one up somewhere?

It's free, just click Add to Cart, go to Checkout, fill in your info, they are not going to spam you, and you'll get the download link. Worth the trouble, it's a great lesson.

 

Sean

[Franklin]

Hey Sean

 

good luck with your journey in bagua

 

 

the Ze Zhong Pai Gao Bagua is a great system

well laid out and Yusen is a great teacher...

 

I guess now we are Kung Fu Brothers!

 

I am in the first class.....

 

 

Franklin

[Mal]

Bagua > Tai Chi. ;p

 

Hah, totally not trying to imply that. Hope I haven't offended you or anyone by even posting the quote. In some ways it's out of context as the entire book is devoted to speaking extremely highly of both arts without downplaying either.

 

hehe I'm just teasing

 

I guess I was just kind of surprised by the quote because I'd always just assumed Tai Chi is THE Taoist movement art, whereas Bagua, Xing Yi are more inherently martial. To read of Bagua's distinctly Taoist roots was fascinating.

 

Tai Chi certainly lays claim to the deep Taoist association. But with most of the well known forms being at most 100~200 years old it's quite possible that association is only a relatively modern thing (like the internal external distinction)

 

{cool I managed to get both quote box "styles" in the one post, wonder how that happened }

[sean]

Hey Sean

 

good luck with your journey in bagua

 

the Ze Zhong Pai Gao Bagua is a great system

well laid out and Yusen is a great teacher...

 

I guess now we are Kung Fu Brothers!

 

I am in the first class.....

 

Franklin

Thanks Franklin. Good to hear confirmation on this system from another bum. It seems fantastic, but all I have to go on is my intuition since my knowledge of TCMA is minuscule. I'm enjoying Yusen's teaching. Very detailed. I'm only on the first lesson, working on the first two standing exercises. They are kicking my ass after only a few minutes! I have my work cut out for me it seems.

 

Sean

[Franklin]

keep at it

 

i think i have been doing that class for about 2 years now i think

 

it really is a great system

and the teacher really wants to share it

and it is not that expensive for monthly tuition

 

that is a very rare combination

 

 

i have practiced another style of bagua since 1997/8 (don't remember exactly- would have to check my note books)

also a great style but very different from the gao

 

the gao is structured great for a beginner

in other words you can start as a beginner and really make progress

 

some other styles of bagua it is almost better to have a strong foundation already

otherwise it is very hard to make progress

 

my advice would be stick with it

i have read some of BKF's books

and he seems to go really deep into details and details

i think the details are good but you really need to spend the time to get the knowledge in your body

and that only comes with time

the refinement comes gradually

(in other words just keep practicing with the details in mind but don't get too frustrated if you can not manifest all of them perfectly)

 

 

and i would disagree that taichi < bagua

tai chi is my first love

been practicing that since around 1992

 

but i have found that good taichi is as hard a good bagua to find

there is lots of stuff out there

but hard to find the good stuff

 

i have had tai chi teachers

teach how the small heaven circuit happening during the form

and also how to draw heaven and earth energy into the body while practicing the form with the small heavenly circuit

but that is all stuff for much latter in practice

after everything else is happening correctly

(i don't claim to be at that level- maybe some day:) )

but with tai chi you can't have this stuff happen with modified forms

if the transitions are messed up then the circulation can not match with the movements

 

 

Franklin

[bindo]

Jerry Alan Johnson video. The Fighting Techniques of Pa Kua Chang.

[zerostao]

Jerry Alan Johnson video. The Fighting Techniques of Pa Kua Chang.

if you can find some of jerry alan johnson's early books on pakua .worth the read.

[Brian]

If you're sure then PM me your address and I will send :-)

 

Looks like my wood:water balance is something like 264:3!

[zerostao]

http://www.youtube.com/user/zerostao?feature=mhum#p/a/f/1/ajaonqHRwLQ

[sean]

http://www.youtube.com/user/zerostao?feature=mhum#p/a/f/1/ajaonqHRwLQ

hah, love this one.

 

Sean

[Mal]

[sean]

[Prince...]

Good luck with the Bagua. I would try my best to get close to Kumar since you are doing his stuff. There is no money in teaching Bagua for fighting, but Kumar has proved that you can make a killing by marketing the side effects from legit IMA training to hippies, new age spiritual people, and the alternative health crowds.

 

I would also try to get as much as I could out of the gao bagua stuff because those guys are serious when it comes to IMA. I personally know the person who runs EmptyFlower. He was teaching Bagua at an MMA school for awhile. Now he teaches out of his garage (with all the gear he scored from the MMA school and he's committed to improving not only his art, but his students)

 

I gotta nitpick about something because we don't actually know what Yang Luchan's form actually was (or if he even practiced a form). You can tell from early and later pictures of Yang Chengfu that his stances were changed. Even with the "Yang Chengfu" form being practiced today, there are variations even within the Yang Family. In Kentucky I studied under one of Yang Jun's disciples. When I saw a student of Yang Zhenduo's older brother perfrom his form, the stances were lower and there were variations in the movements.

 

From my research on Yiquan, it is my opinion that Hsing Yi is older than Taiji, and that it has buddhist origins. I don't consider Taijiquan to be a Taoist art at all. This is only my opinion. Although I practice my own personal Yang Chengfu form that includes aspects from the 3 teachers I learned under, the Taiji that I actually study opens with "Pray to Buddha." Not very Taoist sounding is it? The stances are 50/50 Yang Chengfu and an old Chen style. The postures are more Xingyi than Taiji, and there are Bagua influences throughout.

 

Like most things when it comes to China, I'm not sure if you can really call anything completely "Buddhist" or "Taoist." Kumar talks about how in Hebei the Xingyi and Bagua schools collaborated. Even look at my Taiji form-- it has elements of Chen & Yang styles, Xingyi, and Baguazhang-- but claims to be the form that Yang Banhou taught.

 

**this is the longest post I think I've written in over a year...groovy

[Dainin]

Another DVD set on Gao bagua that sounds promising:

 

Tom Bisio's Ba Gua Concepts

[Franklin]

Another DVD set on Gao bagua that sounds promising:

 

Tom Bisio's Ba Gua Concepts

 

completely different Gao style Bagua

 

but probably still very good....

(haven't seen the dvds or researched the branch in depth myself)

 

 

just wanted to point out that there are 2 different Gao styles that are very different....

 

 

 

Franklin

[sean]

Prince, great post. Thanks for the insights.

 

Happy to keep hearing confirmation that Bruce and Yang Yusen are decent teachers, and that I am connecting with valid sources.

 

Between Bruce's home study course and the gao bagua material I feel like I'm getting access to some solid fundamentals. But I definitely want to expose myself to a good live training as soon as I can. Even just to have fun practicing this stuff with others!

 

Sean

[Prince...]

Between Bruce's home study course and the gao bagua material I feel like I'm getting access to some solid fundamentals. But I definitely want to expose myself to a good live training as soon as I can. Even just to have fun practicing this stuff with others!

 

Sean

 

Not sure where you're located, but the gao bagua groups try to have a yearly meetup. If you're ever in the Middle Tennessee area, Brian's group (the owner of emptyflower) would love to have you drop by for a visit.

[sean]

Not sure where you're located, but the gao bagua groups try to have a yearly meetup. If you're ever in the Middle Tennessee area, Brian's group (the owner of emptyflower) would love to have you drop by for a visit.

Thanks, I'm actually thinking of moving to Asheville, NC soon-ish, so that would not be far at all. Is there a website or contact info for this group?

 

Sean