About a milion questions

[Just me]

I have lots of questions about being taoist and figured I'd just ask them all here. I looked around a little bit here and online and only found vague answers and would like some clarification.

 

1) How does one become Taoist? Is there an initiation or is it more of a decision?

 

2) What do Taoists believe and how do they practice their beliefs? I've heard that meditation is one of the practices but I'm not very good at it.

 

3) Are there any rules/laws (ex. the Ten Commandments in Christianity)? If yes, what are they? If no, why not?

 

4) What's the stand on things like abortion, divorce, gay rights, etc? Or is that subject to personal opinion?

 

Thanks a lot! I really appreciate it.

[Just me]

I almost forgot:

 

5) What's the best (or most reliable) translation of the Tao Te Ching? I just ordered the Jane English version. What other books/websites would you recommend for someone interested in Taoism?

[Just me]

6) What's the stance on deity?

[Marblehead]

Hi Just You,

 

Yes. Many questions.

 

Short answers forthcoming.

 

1. You are already Taoist. It is Te (Virtue) that we all need establish.

 

2. We believe that we exist in this manifest world and we should live our life to it fullest. Yes, meditation is part of the process of finding Te.

 

3. No. Because Lao Tzu specified that Tzujan (the naturalness of nature), as well as 'cause and effect, rule. Man=made laws are not necessary.

 

4. I would say that those are personal although there could be a really good arguement against abortion.

Check the values of your Te and you will find your own answers.

 

5. Many translations can be found at this website: http://terebess.hu/english/lexikon/l.html

 

6. Varies greatly. Some hold to none, others hold to many. Really no standard. Whatever gets you through your life.

 

Welcome to the world of no absolute answers. Hehehe.

[Maddie]

6) What's the stance on deity?

 

I've found that the Tao in some ways resembles the Christian concept of god in someways, but not perfectly. Also the more gnostic epistles and gosples of the new testament seem to be more similar to the tao than the old testament/ torah version of Jehova who was always angery and jealous. What I mean is that all things come from the Tao, so you have that parallel with the creator god. But on the other hand the Tao is less of a personality and less personal than the god of the bible. So in some ways the tao seems to fit some of the characteristics of god, and in other ways it does not. But perhaps that is because the tao that can be named is not the tao, so if you try to slap a lable on it like "god" then you just lost it lol.

[rene]

Hi Just me,

 

One thing that might be helpful as you read the replies to your questions - is to first understand about the words "Taoism" and "Taoist". For a long time, there seemed to be rather distinct categories: Philosophical Taoism, Religious Taoism, Alchemical Taoism, etc - and the people who embrace one or another of those approaches all tend to call themselves "Taoists" and what they practice as "Taoism". In your explorations, you might run across debates as to who/which is the 'real Taoist/Taoism'

 

There might be a softening of this now; and the differences are seen only as a method of approach. Of course there will always be those who hold up the barriers and cling to the label, keeping others out (and themselves locked in).

 

As you read the replies, and explore around elsewhere, you might be able to spot the approach of the person providing the information, which can give you perspective on their reply.

 

Best of luck!

[zerostao]

howdy just me.

a little book that helped me with some of my questions and i think it will adress some of yours

THE SECRET OF THE GOLDEN FLOWER

[wayki]

hi there :-)

 

try not to look for many rules or constraints.....or you will find them.....just be......but add any parts of any philosophies that you can enroll into your own path - to enrich your experience :-)

 

as soon as someone says "i am a X" they label themselves and then subconsciously close off to other things.

 

 

 

 

 

www.waykiwayki.com

[adept]

howdy just me.

a little book that helped me with some of my questions and i think it will adress some of yours

THE SECRET OF THE GOLDEN FLOWER

 

Only if it's the Thomas Cleary translation. The best description of meditation I've read, and easy to understand.

The Wilhelm book is incredibly difficult to understand, even for folks who have been on the path for a while, let alone a beginner.

[strawdog65]

I have lots of questions about being taoist and figured I'd just ask them all here. I looked around a little bit here and online and only found vague answers and would like some clarification.

 

1) How does one become Taoist? Is there an initiation or is it more of a decision?

 

2) What do Taoists believe and how do they practice their beliefs? I've heard that meditation is one of the practices but I'm not very good at it.

 

3) Are there any rules/laws (ex. the Ten Commandments in Christianity)? If yes, what are they? If no, why not?

 

4) What's the stand on things like abortion, divorce, gay rights, etc? Or is that subject to personal opinion?

 

Thanks a lot! I really appreciate it.

 

 

Hello Just me!

 

Welcome to the path!

 

Being a Taoist is slightly different to each experiencer.

 

I realized that I had Taoist beliefs... much to my own surprise.

One day while reading about Taoism, it just clicked.

 

It is entirely possible to be a Taoist thinking/acting person

and never realize that this "label" pretty much describes you!

 

When reading the Tao Te Ching ... it always seems to me, that the advice

is very simple and straight forward.

 

Be as natural as you are able to be, do not use force to influence the

outcome any situation, unless your life is at risk, and even that choice is debatable,

but since Taoism contains all possible outcomes... there can be no wrong outcome.

This is the flow of non interference. Sometimes the best action to take is

one of non-action, which is the principle of Wu Wei. To me Taoism is always

taking the highest road possible in any given situation, to treat others as part

of yourself, to see from another's viewpoint and stay open to the Mystery that is Tao.

 

Many Taoists on this site practice what they believe in physical, or philosophical

ways. You will see much here to open your eyes to the world of Taoism.

 

I practice philosophical Taoism. Which means, My interest is in taking the

wisdom of books such as the Tao Te Ching, and making my best attempt

to use that advice to practice within the wilderness that is our society.

 

It is something very useful, and changes ones entire outlook on life

and everyday existence. Rather than seeing obstacles and difficulties as

insurmountable problems, you are encouraged to understand what is

going on and why your own action/reaction is what it is. To find clarity

in understanding that the world is as it should be, and that the amount

of control we think we have over our lives is an Illusion.

 

Nothing need be done.

All will be done whether we involve ourselves or not,

It is only up to us to endeavor to live lives of true Virtue.

 

Peace!

[fiveelementtao]

You will find multiple answers to each of your questions depending on who you ask...

I have found there are three major types of Taoists who will have very different opinions on each of your questions:

1) Philosophical Taoists.

These are people who focus on texts like the Tao Te Ching and are mainly interested in the philosophy of living based on the texts. They tend not to be very religious. They may or may not practice energy work and meditation. This is a very inclusive group with few rules and no initiation needed.

2) Religious Taoists.

This is the most traditional type of Taoist. Like any religion some sects are more exclusive than others. they usually do require initiation and depending on your level of involvement there may be some rules. Religious Taoists are polytheist and in this sense it has alot of similarities with other traditional polytheism. There is usually extensive training in mysticism, ritual and mediation also..

3)Energetic Taoist (My term)

Alot of these types (including myself) on this forum. These are folks who are attracted to the energetic practices usually associated with Taoism like, martial arts, Qigong, Tai Chi and meditation.

 

So, my suggestion is to ask around. If you are serious about Tao(ism) Find a teacher if you can. Books are very helpful but there is only so much a book can teach you... In terms of the Tao itself, I would agree with some others that the Tao simply means "the Way" In that sense we are all Taoists, the real questions is how effectively we flow in the Tao all around us...

 

good luck,

Mike

[The Way Is Virtue]

I have lots of questions about being taoist and figured I'd just ask them all here. I looked around a little bit here and online and only found vague answers and would like some clarification.

 

1) How does one become Taoist? Is there an initiation or is it more of a decision?

2) What do Taoists believe and how do they practice their beliefs? I've heard that meditation is one of the practices but I'm not very good at it.

3) Are there any rules/laws (ex. the Ten Commandments in Christianity)? If yes, what are they? If no, why not?

4) What's the stand on things like abortion, divorce, gay rights, etc? Or is that subject to personal opinion?

Thanks a lot! I really appreciate it.

 

[Edit:] Decided to make my reply more to the point.

Here's a good resource:

FYSK Daoist Culture Centre Database

http://en.daoinfo.org/wiki/Main_Page

Edited December 1, 2010 by The Way Is Virtue

[thelerner]

I have lots of questions about being taoist and figured I'd just ask them all here. I looked around a little bit here and online and only found vague answers and would like some clarification.

 

1) How does one become Taoist? Is there an initiation or is it more of a decision?

 

The strange truth is- I decide if someone is a Taoist or not. Looking at your picture I have decided---....you are a taoist. Now go study and meditate.

 

 

 

1 question answered 999,999 to go

[Just me]

The strange truth is- I decide if someone is a Taoist or not. Looking at your picture I have decided---....you are a taoist. Now go study and meditate.

 

 

 

1 question answered 999,999 to go

 

Thanks, O Mighty One.

 

Thanks everyone for answering my questions. I have others but am blanking right now (it's been a long day).

[Stigweard]

1) How does one become Taoist? Is there an initiation or is it more of a decision?

 

Good question ... big question.

 

fiveelementtao gave you the right answer in terms of the types of Taoists:

 

1) Philosophical Taoists.

These are people who focus on texts like the Tao Te Ching and are mainly interested in the philosophy of living based on the texts. They tend not to be very religious. They may or may not practice energy work and meditation. This is a very inclusive group with few rules and no initiation needed.

 

2) Religious Taoists.

This is the most traditional type of Taoist. Like any religion some sects are more exclusive than others. they usually do require initiation and depending on your level of involvement there may be some rules. Religious Taoists are polytheist and in this sense it has alot of similarities with other traditional polytheism. There is usually extensive training in mysticism, ritual and mediation also..

 

3)Energetic Taoist (My term)

Alot of these types (including myself) on this forum. These are folks who are attracted to the energetic practices usually associated with Taoism like, martial arts, Qigong, Tai Chi and meditation.

 

Keep in mind that it would be very unlikely for someone to be only one of these categories but instead would be a varied blending of them all. Check this poll for more discussion:

 

What type of Daoist are you?

 

Also keep in mind that there are both Taoist sympathizers and Taoist adherents. Sympathizers, who would make up the vast majority of members here, are people who use Taoism as a supplement to enrich their lives whether that's through philosophy, cultivation or whatever. Adherents are people who have fully adopted the path of Taoism (again in whatever mix of philosophy, religion, and cultivation is relevant to them). Most often, but not necessarily always, adherents have engaged in formal training and study with a teacher. Initiation is more prevalent in the religious branches of Taoism though numerous Master / disciple relationships would include initiation of sorts.

 

2) What do Taoists believe and how do they practice their beliefs? I've heard that meditation is one of the practices but I'm not very good at it.

 

This depends on what type of Taoist you are talking about. Each branch will have their slightly different take on what the "goals" are. For example the Quanzhen tradition, which I am most closely aligned with, believes the process of spiritual attainment proceeds through six phases or levels, beginning with personality refinement and conscious refinement and culminating in becoming Tao.

 

Step One: Chi refinement and Natural Meditation as the cultivation of chi.

Step Two: Teh Tao: Receiving or discovering the path and learning the Tao.

Step Three: Wu Tao: Enlightened by Tao.

Step Four: Ming Tao: Lucidified with Tao.

Step Five: Teh Tao: Gaining Tao, and Tao also gains you. You live beyond your personal cares.

Step Six: Chen Tao: Attaining Tao. Your physical presence gradually merges with the invisible reality of Tao, but you are still able to respond, if you choose, and appear in form. You have achieved spiritual immortality, not physical immortality in the ordinary sense of a life that needs to eat, sleep, and pay taxes."

 

Here is a traditional list of Taoist practices:

 

~ Nei Tan, Internal Medicine, which can support a person's spiritual future through refinement of the physical, mental and spiritual essence,

~ Tai Shi, Internal Breathing, which is higher than external breathing, although both are usually practiced together,

~ Tao Yin, Energy Channelling, for purposes of health and spiritual benefit,

~ Chun Shih, Visualization or concentration,

~ Fu Erh, External Nutrition, using natural herbs and other things,

~ Shing Jeau, Walking, for gathering and refining energy,

~ Fuh Chi, Internal Energy Maintenance,

~ Bei Gu, to stop eating food completely (especially helpful to those who are cultivating spiritually so that they can stop looking for and preparing food for themselves - eventually they combine their life with the environment),

~ Fu Chi, Intaking Natural Energy through breathing and swallowing, which should be practiced with Bei Gu,

~ Fang Jung, Sexual Cultivation,

~ Fu Jyeo, Secret Talismanic Characters, Words and also Invocations,

~ Jing Tan, Golden Elixir,

~ Shr Jeah, Method of Exuviation into a New Life."

 

3) Are there any rules/laws (ex. the Ten Commandments in Christianity)? If yes, what are they? If no, why not?

 

4) What's the stand on things like abortion, divorce, gay rights, etc? Or is that subject to personal opinion?

 

Once again it depends on the type of Taoism. Some advocate celibacy whilst other branches go as far as to promote sex as part of cultivation.

 

If anything there is the San Bao (three treasures):

 

Frugality

Compassion

Humility

 

To this I might add:

 

Appropriate response: in that we endeavor to respond appropriately in any given situation

Subtle view: in that we avoid being fixated to conceptual descriptions

 

5) What's the best (or most reliable) translation of the Tao Te Ching? I just ordered the Jane English version. What other books/websites would you recommend for someone interested in Taoism?

 

What's the best tree to piss up against?

 

Each translator will render the text based on their fundamental world view. Mine works best for me because ... well ... its mine Always do some comparisons and find which one "speaks" to you the best.

 

Have a look at Translation Resources

 

6) What's the stance on deity?

 

Again it depends. Mostly its the religious Taoist sects that worship dieties and those that are worshiped are more about masters who have become immortal rather than creator gods. Other gods, like the Jade Emperor for example, are representations or embodiments of Universal forces or principles. Here's a list of the common dieties:

 

Laozi / Lao Tzu 老子

Eight Immortals (Baxian / Pa-hsien 八仙)

Fu Xi / Fu Hsi 伏羲

Guan Yu 关羽

Chang'e 嫦娥 (Goddess of the Moon)

Huangdi 黄帝 (Yellow Emperor)

Jade Emperor (Yu Huang 玉皇)

Sanqing 三清 (Three Pure Ones)

Xiwangmu 西王母 (Queen Mother of the West)

 

Hope this helps

Edited December 1, 2010 by Stigweard

[Just me]

So can anyone explain a little bit more about "energy" taoism? And what's alchemical taoism?

[The Way Is Virtue]

So can anyone explain a little bit more about "energy" taoism? And what's alchemical taoism?

 

The web link I posted for you previously has lots of information about Taoism.

If you want to learn more about the actual Taoism that was/is practiced in China you can

get a good overview from that website. Here is the web page that has information about

the Taoist internal alchemy and external alchemy traditions and practices.

FYSK Daoist Culture Centre Database - Religious Practices

http://en.daoinfo.org/wiki/Portal:Religious_Practise

 

The information on the 'Commandments of the Orthodox Oneness Sect' (zhengyi sect)

and the 'Commandments of the Complete Perfection Sect' (Quan Zhen sect) may be interesting

to others as well. Those are the two main surviving branches of Taoism in China today.

The Quan Zhen branch was influenced by both Buddhism and Conducianism.

Edited December 2, 2010 by The Way Is Virtue

[pilot]

The whole purpose of a term like taoist is to create a contrast to everything else non-taoist in order to make it unique and therefore carry any sort of meaning.

 

I guess the point that I see is within taoism you have different perspectives. Of these, I see self-styled cultivators or energetic taoists (as mentioned in this thread) as having the most 'soft' definition both within and to the broader term of taoism. I propose that at a more extreme end of that particular subset, one can 'subscribe' to more than just taoism without rendering selected alternative practices/perspectives mutually exclusive or incongruous in any way. For example, yoga theory and practice, at least particular subsets within those, correspond to taoist practices to the point of being practically, metaphysically, and empirically interchangeable.

 

simply something to point out.

[zerostao]

The strange truth is- I decide if someone is a Taoist or not. Looking at your picture I have decided---....you are a taoist. Now go study and meditate.

 

 

 

1 question answered 999,999 to go

wow i think i have to give a plus one for this. grin

[thelerner]

wow i think i have to give a plus one for this. grin

 

Nice picture, you are also a taoist.

 

 

but seriously, I think of 'energy'/alchemical taoism in terms of what Mantak Chia teaches (though some argue it may be a bastardization of the real thing(huh bastardization is considered a real word by the word processor dictionary, wouldn't it be amazing to use it in a scrabble game, I digress)). Its the exploration of energy systems in the body. The meridians, chakra's, organ/gods etc. To get a handle on one way its taught you can go to HealingTaousa.com and look under FAQ:Straight Answers.

 

Again everyone has there own definitions and it goes from circulating energy all the way to immortality. Taoists have different levels of immortality, frankly unless the person is at least 200 years old they're talking second hand .

 

 

Michael