So Kunlun Nei Gung

[Wells]

I dunno if you knew this but....

 

I'm fairly certain orb was being sarcastic....

...well, I remembered how crazy this site is about that kunlun-shit, so I thought he was telling his true opinion.

[Sloppy Zhang]

...well, I remembered how crazy this site is about that kunlun-shit, so I thought he was telling his true opinion.

 

 

Yeah, I remember the crazy Kunlun days....

 

And it's not that I disagreed with what you were saying, because there IS lot of work involved. I just wasn't sure if you were commenting directly about orb's statement, or about the general situation, which I pretty much agree with you on

[Jetsun]

WTH...?

Who is so d***b to believe this new-age shit?

A good Nei Kung system that will lead you to success is all about hard work, investing time, energy, sweat and tears! It's about dedication and training for hours everyday! Ask John Chang, Jim McMilan or Gary Clyman. A good Nei Kung system will give you back what you invest, there is no instant-coffee having-fun way to success in energy work! This site is going downhill more and more since guys like procurator (Wu-Liu Pai School)aren't here anymore. He knew what he was talking about!

If you want the most precious thing that a human can get then you have to EARN it with HARD WORK for a long long time!

Yeah, I guess Max is like Jesus (or Sri Chinmoy): Just believe in him, open yourself to hi "energy" (nothing else than reiki or prana)and he will do all the work for you lazy weaklings!

Hahaha!

 

Yeah im pretty sure Orb was being sarcastic but I see where he and you are coming from because I had similar thoughts when I first read all that about Kunlun, it did all seem ridiculous and absurd and I probably would never have tried it if it wasn't for some people on this site who appeared sane and highly recommended it, so I did try it and it was a pretty unique experience in that no other practice has affected the content of my sleep so much and it was in trying to understand this result why I made this post.

 

I wont believe all the claims until I have experienced them myself but I think it is true that different methods work on different areas with different results, some perhaps are more dramatic than others. From the Fourth Way perspective Gurdjieff says that man has different centres such as the mental, emotional and instinctual, and different methods try to work on the different centres but very few have the ability to really work well on the instinctual centre and he said something like if you change the instinctual centre you change everything in a man. Breathing methods and some Qigong try to do this but many can be forced and artificial so they may not create the desired result or may create wrong result, whereas Kunlun seems to revert back to the innate intelligence of the body to do it's work rather than anything imposed so it appears natural. Jenny Lamb says in that Youtube interview something like some of the spontaneous healing Qigong moves she does in her level 1 she could never have consciously created herself or been given to her as they were the perfect expression of her bodies energy at that specific time and those expressions taught her a great deal about herself.

 

Im not trying to say it is superior or anything as I have no experience of that, rather im just pondering about how it possibly works and where and how it is creating change. Gurdjieff also taught that no-one can get anywhere without a great deal of conscious labour and suffering so I try to keep that in mind and would never expect a super boost to liberation with bliss all the way.

[Creation]

Hey guys.

 

Seeing as I once propagated the confusion that Max made up levels two and three (actually, I may have originated it, I don't remember), I would like to point to what Sifu Jenny has said on the matter.

 

From her website:

 

"Yi Gong is one of the highest Taoist Maoshan esoteric practices. Its system includes two aspects, spiritual and physical. The spiritual aspects have not been revealed to the public. The physical aspects include three levels, the spontaneous adjustment, celestial master points the way, and great water fall.

 

Awareness is the core of Yi Gong practice. Practicing Yi Gong without awareness is not Yi Gong. If you learn the practice and do not develop your awareness, you have lost the essence of Yi Gong."

 

So levels two and three were from Sifu Jenny, but there was a different part of the system that she did not teach Max.

 

Notice also the emphasis on awareness. Correct me if I'm wrong, but this is not emphasized in Max's teachings, what with the whole "watch cartoons when you practice" thing. This always struck me as a major difference in their respective styles of teaching the Yi Gong practice itself.

 

About the spiritual aspect of the practice, she wrote this:

 

"The spiritual aspect of Yigong is important to include when explaining a complete system of this lineage. It plays a very significant roll in distinguishing this lineage from other Taoist schools, but knowledge of the spiritual aspect is not necessary to achieve enlightenment. “Spiritual” may not be the proper word to use here. I reluctantly use the word “spiritual” to differentiate the physical aspect of practice, which I teach, from the the other aspects that involve manifestation and Ling Jie 靈界 (the spirit world).

...

That the spiritual aspect of Yigong is important to distinguish this lineage from others, does not mean that the physical aspect is not spiritual, or imperfect, or that level one is lower than level two or that level two is lower than level three. Each level has its own aim. For most people, the physical aspect of Yigong level one is all one needs. It enhances one's health and develops one's wisdom. I am still practicing level one and love to practice level one, because the Spontaneous Adjustment Qigong continuously illuminates me."

Edited December 1, 2010 by Creation

[Wells]

Hey guys.

 

Seeing as I once propagated the confusion that Max made up levels two and three (actually, I may have originated it, I don't remember), I would like to point to what Sifu Jenny has said on the matter.

 

From her website:

 

"Yi Gong is one of the highest Taoist Maoshan esoteric practices. Its system includes two aspects, spiritual and physical. The spiritual aspects have not been revealed to the public. The physical aspects include three levels, the spontaneous adjustment, celestial master points the way, and great water fall.

 

Awareness is the core of Yi Gong practice. Practicing Yi Gong without awareness is not Yi Gong. If you learn the practice and do not develop your awareness, you have lost the essence of Yi Gong."

 

So levels two and three were from Sifu Jenny, but there was a different part of the system that she did not teach Max.

 

Notice also the emphasis on awareness. Correct me if I'm wrong, but this is not emphasized in Max's teachings, what with the whole "watch cartoons when you practice" thing. This always struck me as a major difference in their respective styles of teaching the Yi Gong practice itself.

 

About the spiritual aspect of the practice, she wrote this:

 

"The spiritual aspect of Yigong is important to include when explaining a complete system of this lineage. It plays a very significant roll in distinguishing this lineage from other Taoist schools, but knowledge of the spiritual aspect is not necessary to achieve enlightenment. “Spiritual” may not be the proper word to use here. I reluctantly use the word “spiritual” to differentiate the physical aspect of practice, which I teach, from the the other aspects that involve manifestation and Ling Jie 靈界 (the spirit world).

...

That the spiritual aspect of Yigong is important to distinguish this lineage from others, does not mean that the physical aspect is not spiritual, or imperfect, or that level one is lower than level two or that level two is lower than level three. Each level has its own aim. For most people, the physical aspect of Yigong level one is all one needs. It enhances one's health and develops one's wisdom. I am still practicing level one and love to practice level one, because the Spontaneous Adjustment Qigong continuously illuminates me."

Ha! This "Sifu" Jenny talks like a politician: Saying much without saying anything.

Now after reading this, I don't know more about the practice or the goals of Kunlun than before!

It's a joke!

Edited December 1, 2010 by Dorian Black

[Creation]

Ha! This "Sifu" Jenny talks like a politician: Saying much without saying anything.

Now after reading this, I don't know more about the practice or the goals of Kunlun than before!

It's a joke!

Well for some reason or another I find Sifu Jenny's writing to be very profound and illuminating.

 

 

Perhaps reading the whole sections of her website I linked to would help you understand what she says the goal of Yi Gong is? I just pulled off bits and pieces to address the issue of the components of Yi Gong, not its purpose/goal.

Edited December 1, 2010 by Creation

[-O-]

[ralis]

[balance.]

Well for some reason or another I find Sifu Jenny's writing to be very profound and illuminating.

 

 

Perhaps reading the whole sections of her website I linked to would help you understand what she says the goal of Yi Gong is? I just pulled off bits and pieces to address the issue of the components of Yi Gong, not its purpose/goal.

 

 

The links to Jenny's site within this post actually provided me with my first opportunity to "hear" her speak....

 

... and I've come away with much the same sentiment/feeling as you, Creation.

 

 

 

best.

 

 

 

 

balance.

[joeblast]

well, the thread at least started out sans ignorant BS propagating ignorant BS...

[VCraigP]

Ha! This "Sifu" Jenny talks like a politician: Saying much without saying anything.

Now after reading this, I don't know more about the practice or the goals of Kunlun than before!

It's a joke!

 

I give you a minus for particularly pointless, troll-ish, self-absorbed, hijacking, de-railing comments out of resonance with the spirit of TTB and that add nothing to the discussion or the community

[JohnC]

So levels two and three were from Sifu Jenny, but there was a different part of the system that she did not teach Max.

 

Maybe.

 

You don't know that for sure.

 

They line up in name.

 

John

[Creation]

Maybe.

 

You don't know that for sure.

 

They line up in name.

 

John

And so the drive for precision leads to the weaving of webs. To the best of my recollection, the only reason I ever thought that levels 2 and 3 were not from Sifu Jenny was that she said there was a "spiritual" level to the practice, and did not mention a level 2 and 3 of the "physical" level of practice. Now she has clarified that these are two different things, and that there are 3 levels to the physical practice, and their names match the the description of the practices Max teaches to an uncanny degree. Of course, Max could have modified levels 2 and 3, but the root is from Sifu Jenny, or yes, seeing as I don't know for sure, I'm just weaving mental webs of speculation, they could be totally different despite the name issue.

 

I'm content to believe they are the same. Maybe I should abstain from sharing this view with others? After all, me flapping my mouth is what started this. Once I posted something that was speculation based on reasoning I now see to be faulty, and here I wanted to make up for passing my error to others. I could just leave it at that, but someone pointed out that a statement I made in the correction post might be in error, because, hey, how can you know that for sure? So here I am weaving more webs of speculation. He who knows doesn't speak and he who speaks doesn't know. But I don't know even if I don't speak.

 

Thoughts are such slippery things. A delightful fiction that quickly become anything but delightful.

 

Bet you didn't see that rant coming, did you? I need to get my writing juices flowing so I can write to my friends (they have been quite stuck as of late, you see). But I don't want to write a big rant like this... hmmm. Perhaps another post is in order, with a different feel to it? Or a part B to this post.

 

I know! OK here goes.

 

I give you a minus for particularly pointless, troll-ish, self-absorbed, hijacking, de-railing comments out of resonance with the spirit of TTB and that add nothing to the discussion or the community

Hi Craig.

 

I like your custom rating system better than the system that allows someone to anonymously give a plus to a one sentence post whose entire vibe is one of intense condescension. Which recently happened in this thread, in case no one noticed. Oh look, now it has two pluses.

Edited December 2, 2010 by Creation

[Creation]

11:11!

Not for me! But you have let me see a screenshot of your mind because the timestamp on your quotebox had your local time on it.

 

Now can you guess who I had in mind when I said I wanted to write to my friend? :wub:

 

No promises though.

[Wells]

I give you a minus for particularly pointless, troll-ish, self-absorbed, hijacking, de-railing comments out of resonance with the spirit of TTB and that add nothing to the discussion or the community

That's like in kindergarten!

Why not report me to Sean...or your mother?

[VCraigP]

That's like in kindergarten!

Why not report me to Sean...or your mother?

 

 

I am happy I provided you with some amusement.

 

Care to provide further constructive contribution to civil discourse here?

 

Craig

[-O-]

I give you a minus for particularly pointless, troll-ish, self-absorbed, hijacking, de-railing comments out of resonance with the spirit of TTB and that add nothing to the discussion or the community

 

 

pot, kettle, black....

 

 

 

On another note: I like gurgeiff and remember somewhere about a comment he made regarding practices which focuss on the breath which can be damaging (I think) to the diaphram and heart with less result across the population of practitioners, but the practices became popular because of the ease of teaching and simplicity of explaining the practice... can anyone confirm? Over the years I've tried to find that quote, but I believe it is out of one of the books which I gave away (gotta stop doing that).

 

When I began - (taught by Max - but it was still Yi gong - before the additions and before Kunlun ) I was relieved, physically and mentally to not have a breath based practice... so gurgeiff's comments resonanted with me.

[Aetherous]

On another note: I like gurgeiff and remember somewhere about a comment he made regarding practices which focuss on the breath which can be damaging (I think) to the diaphram and heart

 

It seems to me that the opposite is true. Unless one is practicing forcefully.

Edited December 2, 2010 by Scotty

[ralis]

It seems to me that the opposite is true. Unless one is practicing forcefully.

 

I have known about Gurdjieff's aversion to breathing practices since I read "Meeting's With Remarkable Men". Someone in India told him to not focus on breathing for fear of damage. There is no basis for that belief unless one is straining. Also someone in the book told Gurdjieff to stop chewing food so that his digestion would be stronger. He was even told to swallow bones. :lol:

[RyanO]

.. Also someone in the book told Gurdjieff to stop chewing food so that his digestion would be stronger. He was even told to swallow bones. :lol:

 

Haha I heard this too...strange

[-O-]

I have known about Gurdjieff's aversion to breathing practices since I read "Meeting's With Remarkable Men". Someone in India told him to not focus on breathing for fear of damage. There is no basis for that belief unless one is straining. Also someone in the book told Gurdjieff to stop chewing food so that his digestion would be stronger. He was even told to swallow bones.

YIKES!

[Jetsun]

On another note: I like gurgeiff and remember somewhere about a comment he made regarding practices which focuss on the breath which can be damaging (I think) to the diaphram and heart with less result across the population of practitioners, but the practices became popular because of the ease of teaching and simplicity of explaining the practice... can anyone confirm? Over the years I've tried to find that quote, but I believe it is out of one of the books which I gave away (gotta stop doing that).

 

Yeah it was in Meetings With Remarkable Men, I don't remember the exact quote but he said something like you need to know every part of your machine before you try to change any of the more sensitive screws as you may produce unwanted changes to the tempo of your body through breathing methods without awareness of what you are really doing. But he also said a lot of things in his books for a reason, often to make you question everything rather than being literal so in this case I am not sure.

 

Personally I would never do any forced breathing method without direct instruction from a master you implicitly trust to know what's good for you. But this is why Kunlun level 1 attracted me as it perhaps it works on the same instinctual level as breathing but your body does what is needed spontaneously rather than forcing anything through breathing, so you correct those screws which need fixing and leave those ones which don't, although the higher levels of Kunlun involve breath retention they are not so appealing.

[Wells]

...

Edited December 2, 2010 by Dorian Black

[Sunya]

...

 

Bro, how much you bench?

[Wells]

...

Edited December 4, 2010 by Dorian Black