Knowledge And Wisdom

[zerostao]

i am a simple minded creature. but how i like to look at the diference between knowledge and wisdom

is that wisdom is the use of knowledge for it greatest good.

[Aaron]

So the act of "Seeing" is the process of removing the interference created from our fixated view of the world and expanding our perception beyond the limitations of physical capacities so that we can "See" life in the full spectrum of its entirety as it is actually happening; we are in fact "quickening" our perception and catching up with life.

 

As a further clarification, if I was to give an encyclopedic clarification on Seeing it would be:

 

"Seeing is the direct and instantaneous flow of awareness between the perceiver and the perceived."

 

Now because I can directly equate "wisdom" to this type of "seeing" then in my view:

 

Knowledge = fixated conceptualization via descriptions and labels

 

Whereas:

 

Wisdom = the direct and instantaneous flow of awareness between the perceiver and the perceived. It is knowingness rather than knowledge.

 

 

Hello Stigwead,

 

I like Alan Watts description of sight in "The Book". He states that the best way to understand vision is to imagine it as touching things that we can't touch with our hands.

 

with that said, if one seriously looks at the difference between Wisdom and Knowledge, my attempt at a humorous post also makes a point. Knowledge is not so much the application of knowledge, but rather the accumulation of what one knows. One can be knowledgeable and not wise.

 

Wisdom is the application of what one knows. The use of knowledge in a common sense fashion. One that is wise knows how to work with nature, one who is knowledgeable knows how nature works.

 

Aaron

Edited December 2, 2010 by Twinner

[rene]

[Aaron]

Edited December 2, 2010 by Twinner

[rene]

I think the problem is that people are discussing Wisdom as it's viewed in the western hemisphere. You are talking about an esoteric understanding of wisdom as it applies to the mystical (and eastern philosophy), in other words experiential, whereas most people in the West view it as a logical process.

 

Also how does wisdom manifest experience? Experience by definition is the knowledge of something that's happened to us, so how can we manifest knowledge of something if we've never experienced it?

 

Aaron

 

Aaron, That's why I like W.Wang's approach on this (see post #29, just above). He speaks to the knowledge/wisdom of the manifest, and Wisdom of a bit different nature.

[Aaron]

Aaron, That's why I like W.Wang's approach on this (see post #29, just above). He speaks to the knowledge/wisdom of the manifest, and Wisdom of a bit different nature.

 

That was a very interesting read. Is there any explanation for why they came up with those definitions? I'd be interested in reading how they came to there decisions, not so much for validity, since it seems quite logical once one thinks about it, but rather just to see how it plays out within the characters.

 

Aaron

[rene]

[Marblehead]

I think the problem is that people are discussing Wisdom as it's viewed in the western hemisphere. You are talking about an esoteric understanding of wisdom as it applies to the mystical (and eastern philosophy), in other words experiential, whereas most people in the West view it as a logical process.

 

Hi Aaron,

 

I actually speak of wisdom in two different categories. First is the wisdom gained through knowledge. The other is intuitive (inspired) wisdom. I think this second category is want Rene was speaking to in her post from "The Dynamic Tao".

[themaninthesuit]

Hey marblehead thanks for creating the thread. I dont have internet at my house, so i only get to use it a few hours a day when i am helping my grandma with my sick uncle. I would have responded much earlier if this was not the case. Thanks everyone your posts really helped me with the concept. The one thing that always held me up about it is that knowledge and wisdom seem closely related. But knowledge seems more frowned upon then wisdom, so it was kind of hard to understand. Maybe its the scientist in me, analyzing things too much to where i miss the answer right under my nose. Thanks everyone.

[Marblehead]

Maybe its the scientist in me, analyzing things too much to where i miss the answer right under my nose. Thanks everyone.

 

Yep Purrr!

 

Oftentimes over-analyzing causes confusion. Sometimes that ole gut feeling is the best answer and likely we didn't even have to ask the question.

 

This has been a good thread, I think.

[themaninthesuit]

Haha most definitely been a good thread, seemed like some wisdom was being thrown around. I definitely agree with the gut feeling, the more ive been cultivating the more accurate it becomes. I feel like curiosity or reasoning has been a big hinderence in my life. Its good to a point which i always go beyond. So i have been telling myself things to get through the day and help my perceptions. Because i realized that people know who they are, or what they are, and what their purposes is. But i dont know these things about myself, and if i spend time figuring it out, i will probably be a different person by that point. What does it matter if i know who i am or what I am to do? The wind is not aware its blowing Northeast at 6 mph, the rain doesnt care if people dont like it, the sun is not aware it is setting. So why should i think my nature is any different then theirs, just because i can think it? What are we without heaven and earth? Compared to the ocean, i am nothing more then a particle in a handful of dust. Why should i act like i am something better?

[Marblehead]

What does it matter if i know who i am or what I am to do? The wind is not aware its blowing Northeast at 6 mph, the rain doesnt care if people dont like it, the sun is not aware it is setting. So why should i think my nature is any different then theirs, just because i can think it? What are we without heaven and earth? Compared to the ocean, i am nothing more then a particle in a handful of dust. Why should i act like i am something better?

 

That is beautiful. You done good!

[Aaron]

Haha most definitely been a good thread, seemed like some wisdom was being thrown around. I definitely agree with the gut feeling, the more ive been cultivating the more accurate it becomes. I feel like curiosity or reasoning has been a big hinderence in my life. Its good to a point which i always go beyond. So i have been telling myself things to get through the day and help my perceptions. Because i realized that people know who they are, or what they are, and what their purposes is. But i dont know these things about myself, and if i spend time figuring it out, i will probably be a different person by that point. What does it matter if i know who i am or what I am to do? The wind is not aware its blowing Northeast at 6 mph, the rain doesnt care if people dont like it, the sun is not aware it is setting. So why should i think my nature is any different then theirs, just because i can think it? What are we without heaven and earth? Compared to the ocean, i am nothing more then a particle in a handful of dust. Why should i act like i am something better?

 

 

Because merely asking the question means a part of you thinks you are better. Wisdom, the wisdom that Dawei is referring to is not expressed in words or platitudes, but rather in action. That is why the Sages did not teach through talking, because what they had to teach could not be taught in words. Remember, "the Tao that can be talked about is not the eternal Tao, the name that can be named is not the Eternal Name."

 

Wise sayings are not wise, because wisdom doesn't arise from knowledge, but from experience.

 

"Few things under heaven are as instructive as

the lessons of Silence,

Or as beneficial as the fruits of Non-Ado."

 

 

Aaron

[themaninthesuit]

Haha thanks marblehead, i could have not done it without my taoist friends i.e. you guys.

 

Because merely asking the question means a part of you thinks you are better. Wisdom, the wisdom that Dawei is referring to is not expressed in words or platitudes, but rather in action. That is why the Sages did not teach through talking, because what they had to teach could not be taught in words. Remember, "the Tao that can be talked about is not the eternal Tao, the name that can be named is not the Eternal Name."

 

Wise sayings are not wise, because wisdom doesn't arise from knowledge, but from experience.

 

See i was also kind of wondering about the phrase teaching without words. But it definitely makes sense now. Words can only be used to describe the truth, they can not attain it. It also kind of makes sense why if i talked about taoism my friends didnt seem to understand it. Because my words will never come close to letting them feel the truths i do.

[strawdog65]

Haha most definitely been a good thread, seemed like some wisdom was being thrown around. I definitely agree with the gut feeling, the more ive been cultivating the more accurate it becomes. I feel like curiosity or reasoning has been a big hinderence in my life. Its good to a point which i always go beyond. So i have been telling myself things to get through the day and help my perceptions. Because i realized that people know who they are, or what they are, and what their purposes is. But i dont know these things about myself, and if i spend time figuring it out, i will probably be a different person by that point. What does it matter if i know who i am or what I am to do? The wind is not aware its blowing Northeast at 6 mph, the rain doesnt care if people dont like it, the sun is not aware it is setting. So why should i think my nature is any different then theirs, just because i can think it? What are we without heaven and earth? Compared to the ocean, i am nothing more then a particle in a handful of dust. Why should i act like i am something better?

 

 

Hi tmits!

 

 

Very beautiful realization!

 

You have, to me, described the most natural of states to attain.

 

Total non-self consciousness!

 

To be like the wind, or the water. To move about without obvious aim...

But to find our way back to the very source of everything.

 

We matter not... but our actions do.

 

Because we have these pesky brains, and an insatiable ego, constantly

thinking it controls who and what we are, our actions/non-actions

become the true challenge of life.

 

This is to me, where wisdom is of vital importance.

 

We have the ability to control the monkeymind that is our ego,

and let our actions/non-actions reflect the teachings of the Way.

 

No words can ever measure up to the actions we put forth

everyday, everyone of us, all over this small blue, fragile world.

 

Wisdom is the realization of what course of action/non-action

should be taken, that takes into consideration all aspects of

possible outcomes.

 

Peace!

Edited December 2, 2010 by strawdog65

[Birch]

Is wisdom just knowing when to shut up and admit you don't know anything?

[trailmaker]

Is wisdom just knowing when to shut up and admit you don't know anything?

 

Right, always liked "Knowledge Belief and Faith" = "Rock Paper Scissors" - makes for neat discussion

some of the time...

[Brian]

Is wisdom just knowing when to shut up and admit you don't know anything?

 

That's an important component of it, IMO.

 

I see "knowledge" as predominantly the product of an external state of acquisition while I see "wisdom" as predominantly the product of an internal state of assimilation. That which is acquired is assimilated; sometimes, wisdom results.

[Stigweard]

Is wisdom just knowing when to shut up and admit you don't know anything?

Ha! I'm with you sister!

 

[Aaron]

 

The Dead actually did a pretty cool jam on "There Is A Mountain" during "Alligator" on occasion...

 

I'd contribute to this thread by saying that the relationship between knowledge and wisdom is rather similar to (but not quite the same as) the relationship between data and information.

 

I saw Donovan in concert in '95 or '96, great song. Never thought I'd be one of those people who said that... hehehe. Age is sneaking up on me.

 

Aaron

[Aaron]

Is wisdom just knowing when to shut up and admit you don't know anything?

 

I think that's definitely wise.

 

Aaron

[Marblehead]

Is wisdom just knowing when to shut up and admit you don't know anything?

 

 

Yes Kate. That's part of it, I think.

 

 

 

I love that Donovan song. Excellent concept for a Taoist discussion. (I think we have already had one of the concept.)

[Brian]

Yes Kate. That's part of it, I think.

 

 

 

I love that Donovan song. Excellent concept for a Taoist discussion. (I think we have already had one of the concept.)

 

I introduced the Donovan song because I think it relates to the knowledge/wisdom discussion, too. You and I once had a conversation about the existential reality of matter from the "cat-box paradox" perspective. I think "mountain, no mountain, mountain" parallels this same journey from ignorance to knowledge to wisdom that is gleaned from learning that your chair may not be real but then accepting that it is, if you follow me.

 

Just as with knowledge, wisdom is not an on-off switch, BTW; it is not binary...

[manitou]

I think wisdom is self-realization. After the self-realization begins to occur, (Know Thyself) wisdom is infused into our words and actions.

[Marblehead]

I think "mountain, no mountain, mountain" parallels this same journey from ignorance to knowledge to wisdom that is gleaned from learning that your chair may not be real but then accepting that it is, if you follow me.

 

Nicely said, I think.