Drawbacks of cultivation

[hagar]

Ok, this is an obvious no-no, so why not bring out there right away and see how people respond.

 

Most people come to qigong, meditation etc for improving something; most often their lives, their health, their mood, better this, better that, more of this, less of that, higher..you understand what I mean.

 

The interesting thing is as our practice goes along, its not that straight forward. Some things get better, some things shift, yet a whole bag of things also gets alot worse. Even things you care about.

 

So here's my question:

 

In your own experience, (and be honest) from an ordinary life perspective; How or in what way has your practice, outlook, lifestyle, priorities created unintended drawbacks, problems and even suffering in your life?

 

Don't be shy.

 

h

[Gerard]

I won't be shy at all. I see only good things to the point where I realised how "dark" is the world of most humans and other sentient beings. They don't have good karma from the spiritual perspective. Very unfortunate but that's what Samsara is all about, sucking everything in like a huge vortex. Escaping it ain't an easy job but well wortwhile all the spiritual, mental, physical, emotional and karmic effort required to break through it.

 

And Samsara has many faces, the worst is the belief one is already enlightened from the dharmic perspective. I failed prey to this and realise now that still got a lot of work to do. Very ardous task but I don't perceive drawbacks for dedicating this present life to this task. Maybe the only drawback is slowness, this process involves full dedication and a lot of energy. Loneliness is another factor that pops up in my head from time to time, but again the more you advance the less you need others company to succeed in this enterprise, which is understandable as everyone is at a different karmic stage.

 

To sum up my main hurdles are: slowness and loneliness.

[King Kabalabhati]

No drawbacks so far.. sorry

 

OK when I started serious Qigong it was a crisis time in my life. So for a person who has everything going good in worldly life it could be a trade-off, for me it has been a lot of relief and healing.

Edited December 2, 2010 by King Kabalabhati

[pilot]

symptoms to monitor that can come and go: pain in knee, pressure-headache, chi block, burnout (and resulting effects along the road to slow recovery), insomnia, various mild injuries from exceeding physical demands on body structure (wrists, fingers, back, knees)

 

the rest are not due to the practice itself, but more to the devotion/commitment aspect. the best analogy I can come up with is raising a wild animal in a domestic setting, having a mutual attraction, being one with it and apart from it, primal power that creates and heals as much as it destroys and harms. incidentally this agrees with a totem animal dream incubation experiment.

[Maddie]

I guess a drawback would be that the longer I practice the less and less I feel that I have in common with most people.

[King Kabalabhati]

I guess a drawback would be that the longer I practice the less and less I feel that I have in common with most people.

 

..and more in common with the entire universe

[Ninpo-me-this-ninjutsu-me-that]

Too much information .... as in knowing what people are thinking and feeling. Sometimes you really don't wanna' know. It can be rather disappointing. It's not like you have a choice... it simply pops up.

 

Still, I suppose is the long run it's a good thing where understanding humanity and yourself is concerned.

 

Headaches were also a problem as someone else mentioned, the secret smile seemed to take care of that quite well though.

[Kali Yuga]

I guess a drawback would be that the longer I practice the less and less I feel that I have in common with most people.

How would that be so? What do you practice exactly? Some practices tend to isolate people very much from others; which is not so good in my opinion. It seems that your practice and thought stream made you more distant emotionally, correct?

 

In my own experience I've been there, then switched to another practice. The new practice distanced me from another people in a way I never knew was possible - I was feeling energy all around me from everyone, and had to stay away from certain places because it became too much to handle! overload in sensory input. Haha once again i quote myself that culitvation is sometimes a double-edged sword.

[Maddie]

How would that be so? What do you practice exactly? Some practices tend to isolate people very much from others; which is not so good in my opinion. It seems that your practice and thought stream made you more distant emotionally, correct?

 

In my own experience I've been there, then switched to another practice. The new practice distanced me from another people in a way I never knew was possible - I was feeling energy all around me from everyone, and had to stay away from certain places because it became too much to handle! overload in sensory input. Haha once again i quote myself that culitvation is sometimes a double-edged sword.

 

I do several practices, 8 brocades, MCO/cold draw, inner smile/healing sounds, ect... I guess in my case what I noticed is that where as I used to want to be around people as a distraction from my own emotional issues, now that such issues are improving and I feel a lot more stable emotionally I no longer have the reasons to seek out company that I used to. I guess I've become more content with myself and since a lot of other people have issues that they do not deal with or even acknowlege they are not so pleseant to be around.

[Astral_Anima]

Loneliness. I mean I don't follow just one system and sum of my practices are rather extreme, but through my cultivation it's often hard to relate to everyday people. It seems that everyone is...well i'm upset at the condition of most people and I know I shouldn't partake of thier habbits, but I find it hard to otherwise relate to others which leaves me feeling ungrounded, isolated and lonely. I mean honestly I just need to find sum like-minded people to hang out with but for right now thats by biggest issue.

[Kali Yuga]

I do several practices, 8 brocades, MCO/cold draw, inner smile/healing sounds, ect... I guess in my case what I noticed is that where as I used to want to be around people as a distraction from my own emotional issues, now that such issues are improving and I feel a lot more stable emotionally I no longer have the reasons to seek out company that I used to. I guess I've become more content with myself and since a lot of other people have issues that they do not deal with or even acknowledge they are not so pleseant to be around.

That is great man! When you progress emotionally and grow out from a place like that the joy of life improves dramaitcally.

 

Once I solved my neediness for example, i found out that I no longer liked to hang around my needy friends. You learn to let go and just let things flow without purpose, distinction, or reason. You stop trying to make things better or change things, you find a fullness within yourself that is independent of cause of purpose. And somehow when you fill a hole within yourself and become whole again, everything around you just seems to get better and improve. You find that you never needed to change anything; that all you needed was right here inside from the very start.

 

Only distinction are those who are stuck in the same low level vibration who notice that you are changing.. Eckhart Tolle refers to this thing within that kind of people as the "pain-body". People will need to drain your energy and bring you down in order to feel good about themselves and feed that pain body. People are naturally jealous when you don't suffer, because of your enlightened choice to not suffer, is not within their capacity to make.

[-O-]

This is a great question and topic!

 

I have struggled with "just what have a gained from all of this" as well as having to admit "false cause" for allot of benefits that I attributed to the benefits of meditation.

 

I spend the better part of 12 years (in the last twenty) with a main focuss and dedication to mediation. What I mean by this is meditation was my life's purpose. That is how I felt about it.

 

When I look back at the last 20 years and assess the changes in myself and my life I would say roughly about 5% of the growth which I have come to (kicking and screaming the whole way) I can directly attribute to meditation - about 15% is undecided and the remaining growth I feel comes from simply standing up the challenges of life in a real way.... however this same question 10 or even 4 years ago I would have said 70% of the growth was due to meditation.

 

Well, what changed that assessment? I stopped practicing. And found that I had gained as much growth, as quickly through my marriage, through being a parent and in business. I also noticed how much wisdom there is in people who have never practiced a day in their life which I assumed could only come from developing awareness. I some cases I've met people that had more insight into lfe, mind, self than anyone I've met from a spiritual context....

 

The one thing that stands out is the absolute changes in my thinking and being which have come from in some cases a 20 minute conversation which didn't occur in a spiritual context. When I review my world view and awareness now I can attibute more change (positive change) from those conversations than anything I have gained from meditation. Obviously this caused a bit of a "crisis of faith".

 

However, the 5% growth from meditation was crucial for about half of all the other growth. I don't think that I HAD to meditate to access that growth as I've seen others come to similar places through other contexts (like, school, carreer, family etc.)... just for me it came through meditation.

 

When I look back now I do have one regret. It is the amount of time and dedication I put into meditation which had been taken from other things, like carreer, family, friends etc. And allot of time was lost due to decisions I had made which were rationalised on a spiritual basis. In the end was just nonsense. That lost time, being somewhat isolated from others (either metally of physically), spent in my mind or heart; in dealing with the consequences of "spiritual" decisions etc is where I feel a loss.That is not to say that I think I wasted my time, nor to imply that I spent that time holed up somewhere meditating.

 

My opinion now, if I had approached meditation like an adjunct to my life, like a hobby, or a personal interest and not a sole - primary focuss I think I would have benefited more both spiritually and pragmatically. In fact I have learned as much about self, nature, self-discipline and have found as much fullfillment in other "hobbies" as I have from spiritual practice. IMO I think if you a the type of person who is interested in meditation then you are most likely interested in growth itself, or the nature of things etc.... and this in itself opens you up to grow awareness in those areas. Meditation is just one context or vehicle which it can be gained... but so is fishing, or hiking or cooking if in your heart your are the type.

[Maddie]

Only distinction are those who are stuck in the same low level vibration who notice that you are changing.. Eckhart Tolle refers to this thing within that kind of people as the "pain-body". People will need to drain your energy and bring you down in order to feel good about themselves and feed that pain body. People are naturally jealous when you don't suffer, because of your enlightened choice to not suffer, is not within their capacity to make.

 

Yea exactely, the people who most don't like the changes in me are my family members who have known me the longest. I guess they are used to how I am "supposed" to act, and now that I am not "playing my role" it seems to disturb them.

[NeiChuan]

Only regret is I have to talk to people who think being cynical means they're smarter then the average person. (And I notice now) lol

 

Self Development in a matter of a couple of years shattered my shell, and only now can I grow.

 

[strawdog65]

Only regret is I have to talk to people who think being cynical means they're smarter then the average person. (And I notice now) lol

 

Self Development in a matter of a couple of years shattered my shell, and only now can I grow.

 

 

 

Hello NeiChuan!

 

The cynical attitude of people kind of baffles me. There is always someone

worse off than yourself.... what is the sense in constant negativity?

 

It has been a journey for me to leave the negativity.... so when I

now encounter this... I try pointing out the positive there is...

usually to no avail.

 

Since the Tao is without judgment.... should we not aspire to be

the same?

 

Being a used to be more complex man, and now being a much

less complex man...I can say I prefer the life I have now.

We decide to make things/life complex by our choices of how

we go about our lives.

 

You can choose to be simple.

Isn't that what all this cultivation is really for?

To bring us back to the simplest imaginable form?(metaphysically speaking)

So we become our true nature and able to be in acceptance

with the non judgmental flow that is the Tao?

 

I am a simple man... and I choose this,

because it is the most natural way I can be.

 

 

Peace!

Edited December 2, 2010 by strawdog65

[nickyro]

Hello.

I wont talk about taoism or qigong, but spirituality as a whole since my routine is a mix of kunlun/AYP/NEW.

Im 24 and I think Im a lot more mature than before the practice, always in a good mood, no depression anymore, with a lot more energy and better self esteem (Back then I had no energy and everything was a pain to do).

I had more nevrosis; I remember I could find 2 or 3 personalities in me, not schizophrenic but I was very lunatic, those personalities have unified to something better.

 

Technically speacking, I can raise chi to the point I can hurt myself (as having medically resistant headache because you cooked your brain with chi too much time in the head

I know now what is chi, I can feel it. I know how to move it, to raise it, to cultivate it, and that is because of taobums and other boards (thanks again).

Bad sides: sometimes I wake up 2-3times per night, after the routine, It didnt happen before.

[Birch]

This is a great question and topic!

 

I have struggled with "just what have a gained from all of this" as well as having to admit "false cause" for allot of benefits that I attributed to the benefits of meditation.

 

I spend the better part of 12 years (in the last twenty) with a main focuss and dedication to mediation. What I mean by this is meditation was my life's purpose. That is how I felt about it.

 

When I look back at the last 20 years and assess the changes in myself and my life I would say roughly about 5% of the growth which I have come to (kicking and screaming the whole way) I can directly attribute to meditation - about 15% is undecided and the remaining growth I feel comes from simply standing up the challenges of life in a real way.... however this same question 10 or even 4 years ago I would have said 70% of the growth was due to meditation.

 

Well, what changed that assessment? I stopped practicing. And found that I had gained as much growth, as quickly through my marriage, through being a parent and in business. I also noticed how much wisdom there is in people who have never practiced a day in their life which I assumed could only come from developing awareness. I some cases I've met people that had more insight into lfe, mind, self than anyone I've met from a spiritual context....

 

The one thing that stands out is the absolute changes in my thinking and being which have come from in some cases a 20 minute conversation which didn't occur in a spiritual context. When I review my world view and awareness now I can attibute more change (positive change) from those conversations than anything I have gained from meditation. Obviously this caused a bit of a "crisis of faith".

 

However, the 5% growth from meditation was crucial for about half of all the other growth. I don't think that I HAD to meditate to access that growth as I've seen others come to similar places through other contexts (like, school, carreer, family etc.)... just for me it came through meditation.

 

When I look back now I do have one regret. It is the amount of time and dedication I put into meditation which had been taken from other things, like carreer, family, friends etc. And allot of time was lost due to decisions I had made which were rationalised on a spiritual basis. In the end was just nonsense. That lost time, being somewhat isolated from others (either metally of physically), spent in my mind or heart; in dealing with the consequences of "spiritual" decisions etc is where I feel a loss.That is not to say that I think I wasted my time, nor to imply that I spent that time holed up somewhere meditating.

 

My opinion now, if I had approached meditation like an adjunct to my life, like a hobby, or a personal interest and not a sole - primary focuss I think I would have benefited more both spiritually and pragmatically. In fact I have learned as much about self, nature, self-discipline and have found as much fullfillment in other "hobbies" as I have from spiritual practice. IMO I think if you a the type of person who is interested in meditation then you are most likely interested in growth itself, or the nature of things etc.... and this in itself opens you up to grow awareness in those areas. Meditation is just one context or vehicle which it can be gained... but so is fishing, or hiking or cooking if in your heart your are the type.

 

Excellent post!

 

I think I've been through enough meditation/cultivation-related drawbacks to start enjoying some fruits. The ability to turn off the monkey is a great one. As is an "understanding" (however simple) of the rivers of consciousness through oneself and others and the world. The capacity to know when one has a choice vs not; yet another advantage, and to feel that choice completely. The other drawbacks elsewhere mentioned are real IMO and small experience and are part of practice. They could also be part of a practice that one is not suited for or vice-versa.

 

I don't agree with Eckhart Tolle. I think other people just want/need your respect, attention, care and love. They're pained because they don't/can't see it when you give it to them (of course if you're not giving it to them then they're right to be consternated (sp?) IMO.)

[Brian]

This is a great question and topic!

 

<snip>

 

Thanks for your thoughts here, -O-! Your words (which I have snipped only for space purposes) resonate with me.

[NeiChuan]

Hello NeiChuan!

 

The cynical attitude of people kind of baffles me. There is always someone

worse off than yourself.... what is the sense in constant negativity?

 

It has been a journey for me to leave the negativity.... so when I

now encounter this... I try pointing out the positive there is...

usually to no avail.

 

Since the Tao is without judgment.... should we not aspire to be

the same?

 

Being a used to be more complex man, and now being a much

less complex man...I can say I prefer the life I have now.

We decide to make things/life complex by our choices of how

we go about our lives.

 

You can choose to be simple.

Isn't that what all this cultivation is really for?

To bring us back to the simplest imaginable form?(metaphysically speaking)

So we become our true nature and able to be in acceptance

with the non judgmental flow that is the Tao?

 

I am a simple man... and I choose this,

because it is the most natural way I can be.

 

 

Peace!

 

Aaaahmen

[Mal]

[thelerner]

I tend to practice in cycles. There's a point where after 2 or 3 weeks of daily emptiness meditation when my mind is getting quiet so that what thoughts are there become louder. When you dial down the static what comes through can be disturbing. A week to two later it settles down or something happens and I break up my routine.

 

Earlier this year I was doing Zhan Zhang. I found a spot where the the afternoon sun streamed through a window strongly and did 20 minutes standing each day. Even with my eyes closed the sun would throw my vision into neon oranges and reds. After 3 weeks I had the feeling of energy bouncing way too fast up and down my center.

 

My heart literally hurt afterwards. In 25 years of practice I'd never experienced that kind of rush. I followed the advice I've seen and given other. Backed off that particular meditation. I did and in a week or two I felt better. I think the standing combined with strong light overloaded my system. I've done Zhan Zhang since, but not in a position where I soak up so much sun for so long.

 

 

 

Michael

[Ninpo-me-this-ninjutsu-me-that]