What's up with "push hands"?

[Fireblood]

Sorry if my last post was a little 'pushy', (no pun intended). BTW I have not trained with Vu or the dog brothers, but my (previous) instructor has trained with both.

 

Staging stuff is useful sometimes to understand what the energy issued feels like. there's loads of push hands videos on utube, yahoo and google, infact on all the video search engines.

[Lozen]

Who was your previous instructor?

[Fireblood]

Who was your previous instructor?

 

Asian guy in UK, his name is Kal Raymon.

[thaddeus]

I'm training TCC because I feel like i need to do it at the moment. Martial aspect is the last thing on my mind.

 

If you want to watch something that is hard to belive, try these links:

http://www.pathgate.org/pi_video_01.html

http://www.pathgate.org/pi_video_02.html

http://www.pathgate.org/pi_video_03.html

Isn't it interesting that you never see the students of these guys ever doing this stuff?

Watching them struggling to the form in the second video was sad to me, they'll never get there. I could totally be wrong, but I wouldn't be surprised the least bit if this teacher was focused more on membership dues and sleeping with his students than actually teaching anything. Call me jaded, but I've seen enough of these scams in my day

T

[sean]

Isn't it interesting that you never see the students of these guys ever doing this stuff?

Watching them struggling to the form in the second video was sad to me, they'll never get there. I could totally be wrong, but I wouldn't be surprised the least bit if this teacher was focused more on membership dues and sleeping with his students than actually teaching anything. Call me jaded, but I've seen enough of these scams in my day

Yup, Cam posted a link to these guys a ways back and I was shocked when I realized it wasn't a deliberate joke. I thought it was a mock student film at first. I really can't see the value in this level of obvious (to me) group hypnosis, especially when it's being wrapped in a martial context.

 

Also, check out the rest of the site. It's a Tibetan Buddhist school that has a pretty legitimate looking curriculum. But now the whole school is called into question as fraudulent on a scary level once I see those clips. And then it makes me wonder how many other schools are holding on to and transmitting teachings at this same or even worse level of dangerous irrationality but without it being so immediately obvious, you know? It's like, if there are people famished enough to eat this, there must be tons of spiritually hungry people out there that are just eating all kinds of garbage. Really drives home the importance of cultivating critical thinking skills when navigating spiritual teachings and teachers.

 

Sean

[Peregrino]

I saw and dug the movie "Pushing Hands" too, Sean, although of course as a work of fiction it didn't make me a believer in the powers of "pushing hands" as an effective technique for real combat situations. (At least, it didn't convince me the way www.realultimatepower.net convinced me of the powers of ninjitsu! Sweeeeet!)

 

As for those "real-life" demonstrations, I still suspect either direct hypnosis or a Ouija-board kind of unconscious wish-fulfillment among the participants . . . As the slogan for the X-Files goes, many people want to believe. Maybe if they can convince the Penn and Teller crew, or a sophisticated but skeptical research team, or a ring-proven combat athlete, I will be more open to the claims of push-hands advocates.

 

I'm glad someone mentioned George Dillman, 'cause otherwise I was going to bring him up on another thread. Has anyone been to one of his pressure-point demos? Willingly and skeptically submitted to one of his "knockout taps"? I think there could very well be a hypnosis or placebo-type effect going on there too, especially since Dillman never took on a very public challenge from a scrappy, outspoken, karate badass called Jim Harrison, who said, "I'd love to see Dillman `drop me with a tap' . . . or even his best shot!"

In his defense, though, I do think the pics of a 51-year-old Dillman doing splits in suspension is for real, since he used the theoretically sound and empirically proven Kurz method of stretching scientifically!

Edited May 27, 2006 by Peregrino

[Smile]

The movie "push Hands" is interesting...

 

Here is a quote of TCC potential development...

=============================

 

The Song of Taiji's Real Meanings says:

 

"No shape, no shadow.

Entire body transparent and empty."

 

This means that (you) have reached "the stage of forgetting self" and have attained "the level of Wuji state."

 

No shape and no shadow means that (you) have forgotten the existence of the self's physical body.

 

(If you) are able to be relaxed, soft, reach extreme calmness, and can transport your Qi anywhere without stagnation, then the physical body will gradually disappear.

 

This is the feeling of trancparency of the entire physical body and this means that (you) have reached the highest Wuji stage of the body's regulating...

 

=============================

 

Check out this site: http://www.ymaa.com - has lots of MA related stuff for sale.

[Smile]

Check out these clips: http://www.itcca.org/site/content/org/Chi_...7/index?lang=en

[Smile]

I was watching the teacher was doing push hands with 2 students. He would extend one hand and do a slight movement with touching the hand of the student. The student's wind got knocked out and about half a time he lost his balance and fell on the floor. The other half, his partner caught him and helped to regain control.

 

He improved so much since that video was taken.