Is This The Truth About Kundalini?

[三江源]

I find what VJ writes and his presence interesting, consistent and of high quality.

[joeblast]

I find what VJ writes and his presence interesting, consistent and of high quality.

Emphatically reiterated - plain speak is being regarded as corkscrewed-to-a-point redress.

[ralis]

I find what VJ writes and his presence interesting, consistent and of high quality.

 

Vajraji's narrative includes inappropriate use of terms and an incessant condescending attitude to his audience, as a means to elevate his position. Last night he claimed to be pragmatic while stating Buddhism as a body of proven facts. Religions such as Buddhism are not factual and belong in the realm of philosophical and mythological discourse i.e, story telling. Pragmatic arguments deal only in the realm of factual discourse.

 

In response to my latest critique of his arguments, he accused me of being sectarian. Again his use of sectarian is a fabrication.

[joeblast]

Ralis, you're stretching terminology to the point where it could be considered putting words in his mouth. I just read this entire thread within the last couple hours and what I saw was a few of you reading what you chose to read of his words. As far as condescending, that is the plain speak I referred to - you are ascribing an emotion, a status, an ego, to words that were produced with none. If you guys arent getting what he's saying, read them again without the shit-colored filter

[manitou]

What is the matter with posting on this one? I would think that if one is truly a student of the Tao, there is nothing to reject.

 

CowTao, you are absolutely right here. I apologize to all, especially Veejay, for the stupid statement about him posting elsewhere. Veejay's posts are very knowledgeable and I stand corrected. My bad. Bad bumb. Bad.

[Ulises]

Here

http://www.kundalinisupport.org/

good support coming from big-hearted, non-sectarian people, with lots of first-hand experience

 

Dorothy Walters has an interesting blog posting about her experience with kundalini

http://kundalinisplendor.blogspot.com/

Edited December 7, 2010 by Ulises

[3bob]

CowTao, you are absolutely right here. I apologize to all, especially Veejay, for the stupid statement about him posting elsewhere. Veejay's posts are very knowledgeable and I stand corrected. My bad. Bad bumb. Bad.

 

Hello Manitou,

 

For what it is worth I think your earlier feeling was right although it may not have come out exactly right in words,

thus I see no need for the stabbing of yourself - imo. Anyway... take someone like Xabir or Cowtao who do not make it a personal point to beat and belittle the hell out of other people with "Buddhism" regardless of their knowledge related to it, to me that is what is meant by what can be posted here under website protocol. Thus I do not accept your apology as stated above.

 

Om

Edited December 7, 2010 by 3bob

[3bob]

"Any tricked-out and tripped-out harpings made about any form of spiritual vehicle being the ultimate is BS."

 

I agree but first time round I read: "Any tricked-out and tripped-out form of spiritual vehicle" and it lead me to consider briefly that maybe yes, ANY spiritual vehicle needs to be somewhat tricked-out and tripped-out or you won't recognize it as one and it won't take you sufficiently off the beaten path for you to start going "wait a minute, you mean...?"

 

Ok in some ways, yet ime the tricks and trips are based in the mind - not in heart/spirit.

 

Om

[Vajrahridaya]

What I have trouble with is your incorrect use of terms. Read what you wrote! Sectarian? Seriously, you should look up and attempt to understand what sectarian really means!

 

What's wrong with your creative bone? I was expanding the meaning to make a point.

 

 

You have some need to resort to personal attacks. Why?

 

I just redirected what you said to me to the source of it.

Edited December 7, 2010 by Vajrahridaya

[Vajrahridaya]

"It seems that in seventh and eigth century Kashmir, and even in later centuries, there reigned a great freedom of spirit and that the yogis and yoguinis, when it was a matter of realizing the ultimate, hardly worried about the etiquette of the masters or about their belonging to one group or another. The great Abhinavagupta himself had many masters, some of whom were not Shaivite."

Yoga Spandakarika.The Sacred Texts at the Origins of Tantra, by Daniel Odier.

(Preface)

 

Hey, you are welcome to your dogma and interpretation of spirituality. As am I. You consider the non-conceptual as ground of being. I do not. I come from a perspective that differs from yours. That should be ok. I don't find your view to be complete, as you don't find mine to be. I'm ok to disagree.

 

"So let us understand that reality transcends all of our notions about reality. Reality is neither Christian, Hindu, Jewish, Advaita Vedanta, nor Buddhist. It is neither dualistic nor nondualistic, neither spiritual nor nonspiritual. We should come to know that there is more reality and sacredness in a blade of grass than in all of our thoughts and ideas about reality."

Adyashanti

 

I don't follow these types of teachings anymore. I see where they lead, they are nice, and give you that gushy feeling, but it's not the same realization as Buddhadharma, and that is the path I follow, and thus I have a different insight, arising dependent upon a different level of experience. For me, and plenty of others, it's deeper, subtler and more refined. You don't think so. So what?

 

In 25 years of studying the mystical traditions

 

Me too in this lifetime and have had the great good fortune of having met some very highly realized beings of different traditions. I am not denying the power and luminosity of all traditions, as most traditions are a training ground that teach the 4 immeasurables, the infinitude of the 4 great virtues. I found that the Buddhadharma teaches more clearly, is more practical, goes that extra little bit deeper that makes a whole lot of difference. I just share from my own experience, as you do from yours. Hey! How wonderful!

 

I still disagree with your take on things though.

[Vajrahridaya]

CowTao, you are absolutely right here. I apologize to all, especially Veejay, for the stupid statement about him posting elsewhere. Veejay's posts are very knowledgeable and I stand corrected. My bad. Bad bumb. Bad.

 

You're so sweet. Seriously... you really are. A sweety!

 

You're not bad at all!

Edited December 7, 2010 by Vajrahridaya

[Vajrahridaya]

[Vajrahridaya]

I find what VJ writes and his presence interesting, consistent and of high quality.

 

Thanks cat, I appreciate that. I feel the same about your posts.

 

May God bless you! What I mean by that is, may your beginning-less stream of karmas see the light of awareness illumined emptiness!

 

The quote that you can't see is: "Since everything is but an apparition, having nothing to do with good or bad, acceptance or rejection, one may well burst out in laughter"

-Longchenpa

[Ulises]

Hey, you are welcome to your dogma and interpretation of spirituality. As am I. You consider the non-conceptual as ground of being. I do not. I come from a perspective that differs from yours. That should be ok. I don't find your view to be complete, as you don't find mine to be. I'm ok to disagree.

 

 

 

I don't follow these types of teachings anymore. I see where they lead, they are nice, and give you that gushy feeling, but it's not the same realization as Buddhadharma, and that is the path I follow, and thus I have a different insight, arising dependent upon a different level of experience. For me, and plenty of others, it's deeper, subtler and more refined. You don't think so. So what?

 

 

 

Me too in this lifetime and have had the great good fortune of having met some very highly realized beings of different traditions. I am not denying the power and luminosity of all traditions, as most traditions are a training ground that teach the 4 immeasurables, the infinitude of the 4 great virtues. I found that the Buddhadharma teaches more clearly, is more practical, goes that extra little bit deeper that makes a whole lot of difference. I just share from my own experience, as you do from yours. Hey! How wonderful!

 

I still disagree with your take on things though.

 

 

 

"it's deeper, subtler and more refined", "Not in the line of the teaching of the Buddha","the Buddhadharma teaches more clearly, is more practical, goes that extra little bit deeper that makes a whole lot of difference"

I see...if I substitute "Christ", instead of "Buddha", it sounds very known to my ears...no problem, but don't try to impose your conversion on the rest of us..

Look, Vajrahridaya, I was living for two years in a rented flat built on the site where the castle of Inquisition was built, in Seville, Spain.

People thinking that their insights were "deeper, subtler, more refined" that those of other people began to burn them...I could feel the insanity in the air, the horror of it all. Perhaps I even was a victim in that time... And that experience has left me with a deep alergy to all kind of belief systems, religions, schools, etc...

I don't believe nothing, I don't follow nobody, I trust Reality is inherently initiatory...that's all

 

Again: if Buddhism works for you, because of your karma or whatever it is, FINE.

But I'm sick of people trying to convert other people.

It makes a lot of sense to me one of the late yogic experiences of Mirra Alfassa, when she received the message of "No more religions, don't change this unfolding in another religion..."

Edited December 7, 2010 by Ulises

[Vajrahridaya]

"it's deeper, subtler and more refined", "Not in the line of the teaching of the Buddha","the Buddhadharma teaches more clearly, is more practical, goes that extra little bit deeper that makes a whole lot of difference"

I see...if I substitute "Christ", instead of "Buddha", it sounds very known to my ears...no problem, but don't try to impose your conversion on the rest of us..

Look, Vajrahridaya, I was living for two years in a rented flat built on the site where the castle of Inquisition was built, in Seville, Spain.

People thinking that their insights were "deeper, subtler, more refined" that those of other people began to burn them...I could feel the insanity in the air, the horror of it all. Perhaps I even was a victim in that time... And that experience has left me with a deep alergy to all kind of belief systems, religions, schools, etc...

I don't believe nothing, I don't follow nobody, I trust Reality is inherently initiatory...that's all

 

I see, so your entire interpretation of me is based upon the fear instilled into you during past lives. That does make sense. To compare the teachings of the Buddha to Christian conquests paved in murder, is reflective of your own state of mind concerning religion in general, which is strongly conditioned by Western Monotheism.

 

You are really saying more about where you are at than where I am at. My intentions are far removed from those that you are associating me with. It seems that you have a brother in ralis when it comes to this.

 

Again: if Buddhism works for you, because of your karma or whatever it is, FINE.

But I'm sick of people trying to convert other people.

It makes a lot of sense to me one of the late yogic experiences of Mirra Alfassa, when she received the message of "No more religions, don't change this unfolding in another religion..."

 

Who says I'm trying to convert anybody? I'm sharing my view and experience for the fun of it, and you guys have so many buttons... really.

 

Yes, everyone says all this, but I'm just saying, the Buddha did actually teach a religion, Buddhism was not a later development that came about after he died. He created an order of monks and he created an order of nuns, as well as the practices and contemplations that lead to being a Buddha, just like him.

 

Did Jesus do that? Jesus was cool, but he didn't really teach with a lot of clarity, at least not to a whole lot of people. Maybe he did to some Essenes? But, we don't really know for sure and we don't really have a clear picture of what he taught.

 

So yes, I am Buddhist, and I am going to speak from the Buddhist view of things, always, because it's complete, clear, deep, subtle, refined, grounded, also transcendent at the same time.

 

I'm not trying to convert you, I'm just sharing... I think it's your fear taking control of you, some deep seeds possibly from what you just mentioned concerning some past life karma.

[ralis]

I see, so your entire interpretation of me is based upon the fear instilled into you during past lives. That does make sense. To compare the teachings of the Buddha to Christian conquests paved in murder, is reflective of your own state of mind concerning religion in general, which is strongly conditioned by Western Monotheism.

 

You are really saying more about where you are at than where I am at. My intentions are far removed from those that you are associating me with. It seems that you have a brother in ralis when it comes to this.

 

 

 

Who says I'm trying to convert anybody? I'm sharing my view and experience for the fun of it, and you guys have so many buttons... really.

 

Yes, everyone says all this, but I'm just saying, the Buddha did actually teach a religion, Buddhism was not a later development that came about after he died. He created an order of monks and he created an order of nuns, as well as the practices and contemplations that lead to being a Buddha, just like him.

 

Did Jesus do that? Jesus was cool, but he didn't really teach with a lot of clarity, at least not to a whole lot of people. Maybe he did to some Essenes? But, we don't really know for sure and we don't really have a clear picture of what he taught.

 

So yes, I am Buddhist, and I am going to speak from the Buddhist view of things, always, because it's complete, clear, deep, subtle, refined, grounded, also transcendent at the same time.

 

I'm not trying to convert you, I'm just sharing... I think it's your fear taking control of you, some deep seeds possibly from what you just mentioned concerning some past life karma.

 

 

Your so called sharing comes across with an edge of superiority. Further, to make random judgments in regards to someone's life or even past lives, is unconscionable. Are you psychic or something? Moreover, you misunderstand Ulises's point of view.

 

What should be so simple and clear has been mucked up ad infinitum by those that proclaim to be devotees of the Buddha.

Edited December 8, 2010 by ralis

[Vajrahridaya]

Your so called sharing comes across with an edge of superiority. Further, to make random judgments in regards to someone's life or even past lives, is unconscionable. Are you psychic or something? Moreover, you misunderstand Ulises's point of view.

 

Ok ralis. Contemplate why you feel that way, it's subjective.

[ralis]

Ok ralis. Contemplate why you feel that way, it's subjective.

 

Now you are my guru?

[Vajrahridaya]

Now you are my guru?

 

By the way... Ulises mentioned that it might have been his past life, having to do with Christian burnings.

Edited December 8, 2010 by Vajrahridaya

[ralis]

By the way... Ulises mentioned that it might have been his past life, having to do with Christian burnings.

 

You are taking that completely out of context! He said "perhaps". That is different than absolutely certainty.

Edited December 8, 2010 by ralis

[Vajrahridaya]

You are taking that completely out of context! He said "perhaps". That is different than absolutely certainty.

 

I was being sarcastic. Man... so much is lost on you ralis. We exist from two very different dimensions of reality and interpretation. We are really from different planets or something.

 

Seriously... not literally, though maybe??

 

Seriously though...

[ralis]

I was being sarcastic. Man... so much is lost on you ralis. We exist from two very different dimensions of reality and interpretation. We are really from different planets or something.

 

Seriously... not literally, though maybe??

 

Seriously though...

 

State what you mean. Use an emoticon for clarity.

[Vajrahridaya]

State what you mean. Use an emoticon for clarity.

 

Yes, well at the same time, I was willing to be serious if he was. But yes, it was coming from 60 percent sarcasm and 40 percent trying to make a point.

[Birch]

Ok in some ways, yet ime the tricks and trips are based in the mind - not in heart/spirit.

 

Om

 

Yes I know that. But maybe you need to trick and trip it (mind) out to get there? Hence practice is a vehicle. I'll leave "to where?" well alone at this point lest our friends with an idea of "where" that ought to be jump in...

 

Of course it's easy (for me?) to argue this after all that - because it'spretty much where I was to start with but with kind of a difference... The difference is that I know for sure what it is and where it came from and which of it is me (heart/spirit) and which is not.

 

I also believe ALL people know this. Always have and always will. Which is why it hurts so often IMO. We know but we persist in things that are against us because we don't have faith in what we know for sure. Why don't we have faith? Because we gave it away.

 

 

 

Still, I'm sure this might look like a circular argument or a begging of questions from elsewhere. Go figure

[Birch]

And I feel I should add also:

 

"because we didn't have much of a choice"