Is This The Truth About Kundalini?

[joeblast]

Or actually following the buddha dharma, for that matter We dont say that all of Islam are terrorists now do we?

[Vajrahridaya]

I've heard of Miranda Shaw. I did a google search on her and yes, I am most definitely interested in the things she has to say about Vajrayana and Tibetan Buddhism in general, the vast majority of which are completely positive! Why would you quote the above Ulises when there are so many more positive and worthwhile things to quote from her...

 

Here's one such link: Buddhist Goddesses of India

 

My Mom who is has her PHD in Womens Art and Spirituality would love these books and the wonderful things she has to say about Women in Buddhism and Vajrayana, as well as the Tibetan History of women in Vajrayana.

 

Why don't you guys flip the coin?

 

Passionate Enlightenment by Dr. Miranda Shaw

 

Review

A feminist critique of a male (and Western) view of the Tantric tradition [and also] a balanced reassessment of a tradition too long misunderstood. -- Review

Product Description

The crowning cultural achievement of medieval India, Tantric Buddhism is known in the West primarily for the sexual practices of its adherents, who strive to transform erotic passion into spiritual ecstasy. Historians of religion have long held that the enlightenment thus attempted was for men only, and that women in the movement were at best marginal and subordinated and at worst degraded and exploited. Miranda Shaw argues to the contrary, presenting extensive new evidence of the outspoken and independent female founders of the Tantric movement and their creative role in shaping its distinctive vision of gender relations and sacred sexuality.

 

5.0 out of 5 stars well researched and essential reading, December 16, 1995

By A Customer

This review is from: Passionate Enlightenment (Paperback)

This study by Miranda Shaw is a must for everyone trult interested in the finer aspects of Tantric Buddhism. The author thoroughly explores the role of women in the development of vajrayana and comes to the justified conclusion that women's role has been much greater than is usually admitted by both Tibetan AND Western scholars. Rufus C. Camphausen

 

5.0 out of 5 stars The best book I have read on the subject, May 6, 1998

By

Ronald Albury (Cincinnati, OH USA) - See all my reviews

(REAL NAME)

Amazon Verified Purchase(What's this?)

This review is from: Passionate Enlightenment (Paperback)

Many of the books I have read on Tantra are basically garbage. This one, however, is that jewel that makes it worth while sifting through the garbage. It is well written, well researched, and can be understood by westerners. I highly recommend it.

 

5.0 out of 5 stars outstanding scholarship, very substantial teachings, spiritually tuned-in-- an amazing book, November 6, 2009

By

roar99 - See all my reviews

This review is from: Passionate Enlightenment (Paperback)

This book is amazing. Shaw describes the content of the Tantric texts starting from an awareness of women's full participation in creating Tantric buddhism as a religious system. She reads the texts through the eyes of who the participants in Tantra really were and uncovers a ton of material about visualization practices, gender relations, enlightenment, and relationships between men and women. She is very sensitive to the interplay between religious texts, awareness practices, and social realities and really talks about Tantra as a religious construction meant to bring awareness within a particular social setting (a setting which is not that unfamiliar in certain tragic respects-- ie patriarchy). It was extremely satisfying to be introduced to the concept of "dakinis" with as much depth and poetry as she brings to her discussion.

 

I used a lot of the images and text in her book to do my own visualizations, with very powerful results in my own life. I think these Tantric buddhists are really on to something.

 

I am in a feminist episcopal community and a lot of her discussion about the way the metaphysics and theology of Tantra supported female enlightenment and full participation by women in this religious community, in a context of patriarchy, was illuminating. I can see in our own Christian community many of the dynamics she describes and this book helped shed light on various strategies for engaging those dynamics.

 

Much respect for the proud and fierce women who created the dakini images of Tantra-- and much respect for Miranda Shaw for writing with such depth and passion about such an important religious accomplishment. The level of commitment that was required to write a book with this kind of substance is amazing to contemplate. Thank you Dr. Shaw for bringing the fruits of your research to light, for the benefit of others.

Edited December 9, 2010 by Vajrahridaya

[Vajrahridaya]

Or actually following the buddha dharma, for that matter We dont say that all of Islam are terrorists now do we?

 

Exactly!!

[ralis]

"obvious pulls of nature that are based upon the fear of death"

 

How about "based upon the love of life"?

 

I believe love/life "wants" to resolve everything, make it the best possible. I wonder if that's why it kills egos that are badly constructed during single lifetimes. VJ, did yours pop?

 

I suggest this is Tao in action. To desire to go against this flow, is IMO a human (I won't say "ego" but I could I suppose) desire - but is it a desire found everywhere?

 

A desire to escape from the embrace of life and one's relationship to it is actually IMO a pulsion towards death. Techniques (or traditions, so I don't get accused of B-bashing because it could also apply to many secular practices) that attempt this, are IMO taking on the very arduous task of attempting to fight life's desire and smack much more of social control than paths to enlightenment.

 

Where things get confusing IMO is when spiritual tools are used (and one could say "hoarded") by traditions in order to draw in adepts.

 

I won't get into the seemingly sanctioned child sexual abuse (calling your penis a lingam is cute but you're still an old dude sticking it to a child). I am also aware that such things exist in many cultures and traditions so don't assume I'm B-bashing.

 

 

Excellent insight! Wilhelm Reich's "Mass Psychology of Fascism" analyzes the rigidly armored personality. The armoring is characterized by rigid inflexible emotion, fanaticism toward a higher cause (usually religion) and physical armoring in the muscles and fascia. Jack booted goose stepping Nazi's and religious fanatics are just two examples of the effects of rigid indoctrination that insists on suppressing the life force. As you pointed out in the last paragraph, that is a perfect example of justifying abuse in the name of some nebulous higher cause.

 

 

 

BTW, I have taken responsibility to rid myself of character armoring. The work is not finished.

 

Rolfing, Feldenkrais training and honest introspection. This has taken years and no amount of meditation could ever take the place of that work.

 

 

Here is a good example of a hierarchy gone amuck!

 

 

Edited December 9, 2010 by ralis

[Ulises]

I don't see this as eye opening. I also already knew about this. This is still a confused age of information and degradation, money, power and sex. The vast majority of human kind are confused and lost in darkness.

 

I still don't focus on that... what for?

 

Just as there are those that have abused the term and practice of "tantra", there are those that have not.

 

None of what any of you have said takes away from the merit of the practices of Buddhism when they are actually applied and utilized for their intended purpose.

 

 

..."when they are actually applied and utilized for their intended purpose"

...and we are humans, too humans: most of the gurus, swamis, rinpoches etc. in America and elsewhere, have practised sexual predation disguising as "spirituality"...ENOUGH!

My point is to spread as much truth about idealized sugar-coated visions of the "traditions"as possible: that could save unnecessary suffering to many innocent people.

The era of gurus and any kind of hierarchies is ending...my intuition was telling me this, and now I'm finding more and more contemporary mystics saying the same..

In the Kalahari, in the "spirituality" of the Original People there aren't special robes, distinctions,or privileges, or any kind of "us,Dharma brothers and them": everybody access to the Mysteries without intermediaries, together, creating an amazing mystical sinergy virtually unknown to most of the later traditions (it was known in the beginnings of Tantra: the ancient Pashupati lineage)

This could be an inspiration for us to retrieve our direct relationship with this Sacred Cosmos...

In fact, I'm finding rings of people experiencing deeper and deeper, transformative states of consciousness out of any tradition...really exciting

 

 

I know, I know, Buddhism is better, deeper, longer, brighter, bigger,etc. etc. OK

Edited December 9, 2010 by Ulises

[Vajrahridaya]

..."when they are actually applied and utilized for their intended purpose"

...and we are humans, too humans: most of the gurus, swamis, rinpoches etc. in America and elsewhere, have practised sexual predation disguising as "spirituality"...ENOUGH!

My point is to spread as much truth about idealized sugar-coated visions of the "traditions"as possible: that could save unnecessary suffering to many innocent people.

 

You'll probably ignore my post on Dr. Shaw above. She has far more positive things to say about the Buddhist tradition than negative things.

 

All the other stuff you said is true to a degree, but we still need our living examples and guides.

 

Also, No, it's not MOST of the guru's, swamis and Rinpoches that are in America are abusing their position, only some are, and because you focus on that... you live in that perception of a tradition that is essentially pure, but filled with flawed Buddhists. But also filled with great examples!

 

My own Rinpoche,

Tulku Orgyn Rinpoche

Karmapa

Sogyal Rinpoche

Yongey Mingyur Rinpoche

Venerable Lama Thubten Zopa Rinpoche

Dilgo Khyentse Rinpoche

Chokyi Nyima Rinpoche

The incredible Garchen Rinpoche who spent 20 years in a Chinese prison just doing his practices in secret in his mind and came out even more enlightened than when he went in.

 

What you choose to focus on is what colors your perception. You want to expose all the negative things about everything... that's an endless journey bro!

 

Exposing the positive things is just as endless... why not go there? Who's sugar coating anything? Life is full of dualities, and most of us know that already.

Edited December 9, 2010 by Vajrahridaya

[ralis]

With all the posturing around Tibetan monasteries, exactly what has been accomplished for the physical welfare of others?

 

1. Clinics and hospitals?

2. Feeding the hungry that live in close conjunction to the local monastery?

3. Clothing the needy?

 

 

A perfect example of neglect is this display of arrogance in the name of the Dharma. Gangteng Tulku spent a fortune on refurbishing this antique stupa while neglecting the local poor people. Why? So he could sit on his golden throne and dispense, whatever he dispenses!

 

 

[Vajrahridaya]

With all the posturing around Tibetan monasteries, exactly what has been accomplished for the physical welfare of others?

 

1. Clinics and hospitals?

2. Feeding the hungry that live in close conjunction to the local monastery?

3. Clothing the needy?

Yes, Dilgo Khyentse did build and fund these things. So have many other Rinpoches, some of which I named above.

 

You certainly have a nac for focusing on the negative ralis. As well as a nac for convincing yourself that it's the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth!

 

Quite sad really. Your mind is like a steel trap.

Edited December 9, 2010 by Vajrahridaya

[ralis]

I wonder if the examples I have sited are a misuse of the kundalini forces. If these spiritual leaders really considered that taking care of business in the physical, instead of floating around in mental spiritual concepts, their attitudes might change.

Edited December 9, 2010 by ralis

[ralis]

Yes, Dilgo Khyentse did build and fund these things. So have many other Rinpoches, some of which I named above.

 

You certainly have a nac for focusing on the negative ralis. As well as a nac for convincing yourself that it's the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth!

 

Quite sad really. Your mind is like a steel trap.

 

That is one occurrence!

[Vajrahridaya]

That is one occurrence!

 

No, it is not... WOW... this goes to show how little research you have done in the positive. This also reveals where your mind is at as the information that reaches it and penetrates it is reflective of the state of perception of it. Even the Dalai Lama and the Karmapa fund hospitals and help fund organizations that clothe the needy. I could name 12 Rinpoches that I know of that give money to organizations that do such things. I'm sure there are hundreds more! I don't know of that many Rinpoches.

 

But, teaching the Dharma is worth more than any of this, which is something you just don't understand.

Edited December 9, 2010 by Vajrahridaya

[Ulises]

"Every form of addiction is bad, no matter whether the narcotic be alcohol, morphine or idealism."

"One does not become enlightened by imagining figures of light, but by making the darkness conscious."

— Carl Gustav Jung

 

Time to have the courage to face the collective shadows of all religions. Nietszche went crazy because he was alone. Now, together, we can, we will.

Our gratitude to the boats who carried us to this point: time to fly without religions

Edited December 9, 2010 by Ulises

[Aetherous]

I wonder if the examples I have sited are a misuse of the kundalini forces. If these spiritual leaders really considered that taking care of business in the physical, instead of floating around in mental spiritual concepts, their attitudes might change.

 

This is a very valid point. Spiritual reflections do help people on a deep level, I think, but does it really matter without taking care of basic needs? Maslow's heirarchy!

[ralis]

This is a very valid point. Spiritual reflections do help people on a deep level, I think, but does it really matter without taking care of basic needs? Maslow's heirarchy!

 

The photo of Gangteng's stupa above carries with it a description of the facilities for retreat and a religious university. It makes no mention of taking care of the needy. This all smacks of personality worship!

 

HH. Gangteng Rinpoche is responsible for more than 25 private Nyingmapy monasteries and temples in Bhutan and Gangteng Gonpa - the largest private monastery Buthanu throughout the Kingdom. Since completion in 1992, the strict seclusion of another, Gangteng Tulku works continuously to strengthen and spread the teachings and practices of the lineage of Pema Lingpa. The fruit of his intense Buddhist activities in Bhutan is created a new three-year retreat center, science center Dzogchen retreats, new shedra (school for the monks at the university level), as well as many temples and religious schools.

[Vajrahridaya]

 

Our gratitude to the boats who carried us to this point: time to fly without religions

 

It's interesting, that word religion. Everyone has a different experience and definition of this word.

 

"I'm actually not religious, but spiritual..." Ah another ambiguous term that is defined only by the context of what it appears around!

 

How about we fly past all our pre-conceptions about things, pre-conceptions about concepts, and pre-conceptions about spiritual traditions of any form!? Just fly free, and truly fly free!

 

If everyone was flying free... there would be no need for Guru's, Rinpoches and Monasteries, or even spiritual traditions with time tested and working tools that bring people in touch with their intrinsic freedom. All of these are just practical methods arising dependent upon the needs of the people.

 

If you really don't think you need them or think they are the antithesis to your process. That is fine, as you do have your process, as unique as it is, own it. But don't expect me to take your dark and murky, as well as dogmatic outlook of a tradition that has illumined countless Samsarins into the experience of constant awakening, as the absolute truth.

 

[Vajrahridaya]

The photo of Gangteng's stupa above carries with it a description of the facilities for retreat and a religious university. It makes no mention of taking care of the needy. This all smacks of personality worship!

 

You have a very narrow view of the needy. What he teaches is feeding the needy, and inspiring many more people to help those less fortunate. What, you think all money should be spent dressing people many of whom created the situation they are undergoing? This isn't an excuse to not help if and when you can, but real help is instilling the inspired tools that help people help themselves into a new state of perception and action. Of course, many are so poor and fighting for survival that they don't have time to apply any sort of spiritual tools or contemplation. Still... all that money used for the stupa, would have maybe fed a few hundred people for a month, then what? But wisdom lasts even beyond this life.

 

Your view still smacks of jaded negativity.

 

HH. Gangteng Rinpoche is responsible for more than 25 private Nyingmapy monasteries and temples in Bhutan and Gangteng Gonpa - the largest private monastery Buthanu throughout the Kingdom. Since completion in 1992, the strict seclusion of another, Gangteng Tulku works continuously to strengthen and spread the teachings and practices of the lineage of Pema Lingpa. The fruit of his intense Buddhist activities in Bhutan is created a new three-year retreat center, science center Dzogchen retreats, new shedra (school for the monks at the university level), as well as many temples and religious schools.

 

This is utterly amazing and deeply positive! What do you think Chogyal Namkhai Norbu Rinpoche does??

 

Your constant state of negative perception around spiritual traditions is bewildering to me. You are obviously not a student or supporter of the Dzogchen lineage and teachings if they are deemed so unworthy of spreading and spending money on.

[rain]

With all the posturing around Tibetan monasteries, exactly what has been accomplished for the physical welfare of others?

 

1. Clinics and hospitals?

2. Feeding the hungry that live in close conjunction to the local monastery?

3. Clothing the needy?

 

 

A perfect example of neglect is this display of arrogance in the name of the Dharma. Gangteng Tulku spent a fortune on refurbishing this antique stupa while neglecting the local poor people. Why? So he could sit on his golden throne and dispense, whatever he dispenses!

 

 

 

Absolutely, in Nepal most schools are private, to my knowledge at least a handfu(l), probably more, built and run through the initiative of single monks operating on the Dalai Lamas incentive to strengthen tibetan and nepalese culture through educating them in both english and mother tounge. Children from the age of 6 to 16 are dressed educated and fed. Exchange is made between medics in China, Malaysia, India, France, Germany, Norway and numerous other countries.

Enlightenment may be sold on every corner, but there is still individuals who dedicate their entire lives to this work.

Edited December 9, 2010 by rain

[Vajrahridaya]

Absolutely, in Nepal most schools are private, to my knowledge at least a handfu(l), probably more, built and run through the initiative of single monks operating on the Dalai Lamas incentive to strengthen tibetan and nepalese culture through educating them in both english and mother tounge. Children from the age of 6 to 16 are dressed educated and fed. Exchange is made between medics in China, Malaysia, India, France, Germany, Norway and numerous other countries.

Enlightenment may be sold on every corner, but there is still individuals who dedicate their entire lives to this work.

 

Exactly the type of information ralis ignores in his staunch stance against everything religious.

[Mandrake]

Absolutely,

It would be wrong to throw out the baby with the bath water. But in order to progress, we have to take an earnest look at the existing problems and the historic baggage. Does monastic systems have anything good to contribute? Off course - but we have to diligently evaluate continuously that they _are_ creating surplus value, and doing what they are supposed to do. Is there any kind of abuse going on - whether of children, visitors, of offered money, monks being lazy or whatever you think of - then we need to acknowledge this without self-deception and improve the institution.

Can the whole institution be remade in order to serve society better? Would a different version suit today's and the future's world better regarding benefit to humanity?

Organizations that are lazy and careless about this kind of evaluation and self-criticism are potentially dangerous organization, potential breeding ground for all kinds of shadow-stuff.

 

And of course there were some tremendous good that emerged in pre-China Tibet, but there were also some serious problems that we must not overlook just because we want to preserve an lalala utopian outlook on Tibet.

 

Mandrake

 

There is lots to agree with here. I've also read lots of incredible and positive success stories concerning pre-Chinese Tibet, from biographies and autobiographies. I think it's interesting that the human psyche clings more to the stories of negative revelation than positive revelation. Don't you think?

 

Is the glass half full or half empty? Or neither, maybe it's just a glass and you fill it to the degree and with the substance you want to fill it with?

[Birch]

"What you choose to focus on is what colors your perception. You want to expose all the negative things about everything... that's an endless journey bro!

 

Exposing the positive things is just as endless... why not go there? Who's sugar coating anything? Life is full of dualities, and most of us know that already."

 

This is effectively true in my experience and I'll add something more. IMO (and IME) focusing solely on "the positive" is akin to a child faced with reality (some of which, yes, is dark), sticking his fingers in his ears, closing his eyes and singing "lalalala" to avoid facing what's actually going on.

 

But by adulthood (if you've reached that point - somewhat debatable in a society which seems to encourage, glorify and sustain pubescent behaviour and thinking and IMO in which religion could have a stake in ensuring this continues ad nauseum- I don't need no "Father in heaven")

 

This is termed a "spiritual bypass" and renders people who may otherwise be in a position to act creatively towards positive ends, ineffectual. A contemporary example is the "positive thinking" fashion in North America. See where that got people...

 

As long I continue to hear victims of abuse and poverty blamed for what is happening, I refuse to adhere to any religion, however interesting the spiritual practices that stem from it may be. I'll take them with pleasure, thank the person or teacher who shared and be on my path if you need me.

[KoolAid900]

The incredible Garchen Rinpoche who spent 20 years in a Chinese prison just doing his practices in secret in his mind and came out even more enlightened than when he went in.

 

 

http://www.forthebenefitofallbeings.com/preview.html

 

<3 <3 <3 <3

 

 

I have experienced a lot of love in my life... especially as a child. Enough that since I was a teenager I have striven to help others feel such love. It has been an aspiration of mine since then to go where there is unhappiness so that I can give some love. It is what I do for a living (social services) and I have dedicated my adult marriage to it.

 

The immense love from my family that inspired this, did not compare with the depth of Love I felt from Garchen Rinpoche in 20 seconds... when I gave him a steak knife and he saw me.

 

I bawled for hours.

 

I don't have the eloquence to express these emotions in words. He is what Jesus is supposed to be.

completely.

there is nothing greater than this.

 

 

Thank you Garchen :')

[Ninpo-me-this-ninjutsu-me-that]

 

The Buddha had bigger muscles than arnold schwarzenegger, and he was tapping the honies left right and center!

 

 

Obviously that isn't your quote above Vaj, I was just having a little fun .

 

I do wanna ask you something though, it's not about Kundalini, but little else on this thread for the last six or so pages is, so I'll take it that no one minds.

 

All this talk of friction and good old fashioned lust and stuff has got me thinking. The whole reincarnation deal I believe to be quite true, but not quite true.

 

As you know the math for reincarnation for the world population just doesn't add up, unless something else is happening. I take it that the Buddhist view is based on independent origin, and that view is the right way to view it, a person may not necessarily get to the end of the view to see what's happening, but that's the view they should maintain(am I right so far??)?

[Vajrahridaya]

"What you choose to focus on is what colors your perception. You want to expose all the negative things about everything... that's an endless journey bro!

 

Exposing the positive things is just as endless... why not go there? Who's sugar coating anything? Life is full of dualities, and most of us know that already."

 

This is effectively true in my experience and I'll add something more. IMO (and IME) focusing solely on "the positive" is akin to a child faced with reality (some of which, yes, is dark), sticking his fingers in his ears, closing his eyes and singing "lalalala" to avoid facing what's actually going on.

 

But by adulthood (if you've reached that point - somewhat debatable in a society which seems to encourage, glorify and sustain pubescent behaviour and thinking and IMO in which religion could have a stake in ensuring this continues ad nauseum- I don't need no "Father in heaven")

 

This is termed a "spiritual bypass" and renders people who may otherwise be in a position to act creatively towards positive ends, ineffectual. A contemporary example is the "positive thinking" fashion in North America. See where that got people...

 

Yes, I agree that there is the rose colored glasses phenomena. I am not suggesting that. I'm just talking about negative focus and how damaging it is to wise and open awareness.

 

As long I continue to hear victims of abuse and poverty blamed for what is happening

 

Who is blaming the abused? At the same time, if I don't understand the continuum of life, than I wouldn't see how the outer world and it's circumstances that I've experienced and come into direct contact with are reflections of my own previous actions and intentions as life is a bank where I get 100 percent what I put into it. Shit doesn't just happen without causes, and that goes with personal experiences have personal causes. If I can't recognize how much power I have I would remain bound by the idea of chaos and would feel helpless to change my circumstances, or I would succumb to just stupidly waiting for charity as if I were owed something? Instead of manifesting my own destiny through self empowerment. Why should I play the role of the victim? Have a pity party? I manifested the situations in my life, not souly, as there is inter-dependent co-creating going on here. But, I did align myself with all those early, early situations of abuse through my past lives in some way or another, and so did other victims of abuse. Now abusers... well... should we just shoot them all? As most abusers were victims of abuse in a cycle of abuse. I'm not justifying the actions either, as anyone can be like me and contemplate their way out of the cycle. Then again, I'm only able to do that due to having been influenced with the right tools in order to do so. So many victims of abuse have never been influenced by positive and personal role models, thus they wouldn't even know how to break the cycle even if they tried.

 

I being the victim of abuse and neglect which resulted in subsequent acting out, and eventually poverty and homelessness a few times, can speak from personal experience when I say that I forgive my abusers, no matter how painful it all was, and I see how much of the situations had to do with me on an unconscious level. Also, who knows what kind of karma I burnt by going through such abuse? That doesn't justify an abuser, as they are just making more karma for themselves and not contemplating the nature of action/reaction. But, I must be responsible for myself, first and foremost.

 

 

I refuse to adhere to any religion, however interesting the spiritual practices that stem from it may be. I'll take them with pleasure, thank the person or teacher who shared and be on my path if you need me.

 

I don't see a problem with that... as long as a person keeps cultivating their own positive evolution and keeps learning with every new step, as well as unlearning all that's not needed.

[Vajrahridaya]

 

http://www.forthebenefitofallbeings.com/preview.html

 

<3 <3 <3 <3

 

 

I have experienced a lot of love in my life... especially as a child. Enough that since I was a teenager I have striven to help others feel such love. It has been an aspiration of mine since then to go where there is unhappiness so that I can give some love. It is what I do for a living (social services) and I have dedicated my adult marriage to it.

 

The immense love from my family that inspired this, did not compare with the depth of Love I felt from Garchen Rinpoche in 20 seconds... when I gave him a steak knife and he saw me.

 

I bawled for hours.

 

I don't have the eloquence to express these emotions in words. He is what Jesus is supposed to be.

completely.

there is nothing greater than this.

 

 

Thank you Garchen :')

 

 

That is amazing K.A.! Yes, Garchen is a very rare being... sadly... I wish there were more of him on the Earth, but right now... we must have some kind of merit to even have him aboard star ship Earth at this time. Man... he is powerful, and I've never met him in person, but I've heard so many stories and I just really, really connected with him when I first saw him in the Yogis of Tibet video. I bawled just through seeing him on the video. Also the older Rinpoche... I forgot his name? He was on the video, though he passed on recently. He was totally amazing!! I fell out of my seat when I saw and heard him talk. I could feel him so deeply. Anyway... yes! Garchen-la!! I hope to meet him in person sometime soon. I know he loves to travel and give White Tara transmissions. I actually paid for one in 09' when he was in NJ or NY? But, I had to cancel and get a refund because of some really hard times. They gave me a huge sliding scale discount, and I still couldn't go because of transportation costs. But... man. He just looks like a walking heart! :wu:

 

Oh yeah... Drubwang Rinpoche.. that's the old guy I was talking about. He's on the video you shared above.

Edited December 10, 2010 by Vajrahridaya

[Vajrahridaya]

Obviously that isn't your quote above Vaj, I was just having a little fun .

 

I was gona say!! I was thinking.. hmmm... I might have said that jokingly some time ago... but I know I didn't say it in this thread! :lol:

 

I do wanna ask you something though, it's not about Kundalini, but little else on this thread for the last six or so pages is, so I'll take it that no one minds.

 

All this talk of friction and good old fashioned lust and stuff has got me thinking. The whole reincarnation deal I believe to be quite true, but not quite true.

 

As you know the math for reincarnation for the world population just doesn't add up, unless something else is happening. I take it that the Buddhist view is based on independent origin, and that view is the right way to view it, a person may not necessarily get to the end of the view to see what's happening, but that's the view they should maintain(am I right so far??)?

 

First I'll just throw out a correction, because there is a huge difference between the intent and meaning of independent origination and dependent origination. So, the Buddhist view is dependent origination, the Theist view is independent origination. These contemplations lead to entirely different understandings of the nature of things. Independent origination proposes a universe that is originated by an independent source, endowed with creative will as the one behind the many. Dependent origination reveals infinite regress and endless differences without beginning or end, and this is the Buddhist view.

 

Ok, moving on...

 

As far as the math for reincarnation. Do you see how many people act like animals? Well, plenty of people were animals. Also beings are being born here from other dimensions all the time, lower dimensions, higher dimensions, alien worlds. I've met some straight up aliens, first time humans. Sometimes very, very strange who admit to having been alien in their immediate past life. Anyway... it's not so linear as you are considering.

 

What you are asking when you say... "a person may not necessarily get to the end of the view to see what's happening" A person won't get to the first cause of themself, if that's what your asking, as there isn't one. But, you can get to the personal cause of Samsaric experience. That is found by delving into your own mind and removing all illusions of self attachment and clinging on an experiential level, first philosophically, then meditatively, then through self liberation in activity.

 

But if you are looking for the beginning of your personal mind stream? That is an attachment that will never be fulfilled, as long as it remains an attachment, or desire. That is part of the craving of grasping at a self. To try and find a primordial Self is considered impossible by Buddhist standards. Because Buddhism doesn't consider the big bang the beginning, but merely an aspect of a never ending cycle of infinite potential, the ever many. Which is why Buddhists don't go for the concept of universal oneness, or get lost in an experience of "oneness" as that experience has a tendency to overwhelm subtle discernment with an attachment to bliss as an absolute Self.

 

All that is worth going after is the inner cause of your experience of Samsara, and that does have a beginning, in each and every new moment. That can be unraveled and understood completely.

Edited December 10, 2010 by Vajrahridaya