Has taobums helped you?

[z00se]

Has it? Do you feel more enlightened by reading the great wealth of knowledge here within?

 

It is great to read everybody's stories, some much more enlightened than others. Some very advanced, some beginning their paths. Many helping others. It really is wonderful to see it all.

 

However i find the more i read the further i distance myself from the tao. It can help me from time to time to create tension within myself to rediscover the path of the tao but each time it steps me back before i step forward. But perhaps when i become more determined to rediscover the path of the tao i temporarily lose my connection to it.

 

I am no master but i have spent plenty of years cultivating and learning seems to be the biggest barrier to my internal peace and quiet. Being happy with what you got becomes more and more difficult as you listen to others, and in the endeavour to have what they have you end up with less and less.

 

Anybody else's feelings?

[Apech]

I think its good to have such a wide range of contacts and views on here. You can read about all sorts of stuff that you would find it hard to come across normally. Great to chat with like minded people or at least people who share some of the same interests. Its a good support to practice but no substitute for practice. You have to get on with your own work.

 

What other people have achieved or done means little to me ... I am only really concerned about my own progress and understanding ... good luck to them ... that's it.

[manitou]

As to getting away from the Tao because of the postings here - I agree that there is some definite abrasiveness from time to time; if someone crosses my ego (which I do my best to keep tamped down but sometimes it catches me off-guard) I find myself thinking about their response - say later that day when I'm driving down the street - or what my response should have been. (This is sheer ego, I know...but the damn thing is there whether I want it or not). But the point is that it is because of these little tiffs that I get to work things out in my head, often times leading to a wonderful Aha! It's after that moment that love and peace can return to me.

[Aaron]

If it works for you, it works. If it doesn't, it doesn't. The idea someone will reach enlightenment visiting an online forum is silly. Enlightenment can't be taught, it can only be experienced. No words said here will lead you to that path. If that's the reason you're visiting, I'm afraid you'll be sorely dissapointed.

 

Aaron

[Marblehead]

I enjoy my visits to TaoBums.

 

Yes, a great variety of concepts discussed here, some of which I have no interest but others do, and concepts that I have freat interest in and these are the ones I involve myself in.

 

If for no other reason, my discussions with others help me to question my own understandings. This is important, I think. Do we "really" believe what we think we believe? Only through critical thought can one determine this.

 

Oh, sure, there are many things said here that do not lead to further understanding of the Way of Tao. Even some things are said that lead one astray from the Way. But this too is useful because it allows us to determine what we are going to accept or discard.

 

Nothing is black or white but rather different shades of gray. Creation and destruction: just different aspect of the same process. (No, I have no idea why I said that.)

[strawdog65]

Has it? Do you feel more enlightened by reading the great wealth of knowledge here within?

 

It is great to read everybody's stories, some much more enlightened than others. Some very advanced, some beginning their paths. Many helping others. It really is wonderful to see it all.

 

However i find the more i read the further i distance myself from the tao. It can help me from time to time to create tension within myself to rediscover the path of the tao but each time it steps me back before i step forward. But perhaps when i become more determined to rediscover the path of the tao i temporarily lose my connection to it.

 

I am no master but i have spent plenty of years cultivating and learning seems to be the biggest barrier to my internal peace and quiet. Being happy with what you got becomes more and more difficult as you listen to others, and in the endeavour to have what they have you end up with less and less.

 

Anybody else's feelings?

 

 

hi z00se!

 

My personal view of all this is most similar to what you have said.

 

I came to this path accidentally (or you could say, on purpose as well because

there is a reason for all the things we do.) for I never knew what Taoism was

until about 2 years ago. Without ever being instructed in what it was, after doing

some reading, I realized I was most in line with what composes Taoism.

 

Life and all its challenges has been my greatest teacher. I have not been fortunate

enough to have instruction from anyone called a "master".

This is not regretful to me. If the opportunity arose and it was something I could

afford, then that would be a different matter.

Different paths, different individuals, all seeking the same Tao.

No path is better or worse. I do believe the TTC and associated stories of Chuang Tzu

illustrate that enlightenment is open to all... including the lesser intelligently gifted

among us. To be what is most natural to you is a form of Simpleness within

nature, is this not in accordance with Tao?

 

I can see what you say about the more you read and delve into the writings.

 

The Tao is not something that is supposed to be written about... that is the issue.

Like talking about colors to a person born with blindness.

Tao is to be lived.

Speaking of it is like listening to birds chirp and insisting you

understand every nuance of the sounds meaning.

Sometimes understanding "meaning" is less important than

just "experiencing" and allowing it (whatever "it" may be) to just BE.

 

Writing about something that is ever present and and unnamable is foolish,

but nonetheless human in nature. But by the very act of describing and quantifying

what Tao is, we are making ourselves too self- conscious to just "be" in that moment

and flow with our lives which are within the Tao.

 

It is almost as if we should read and learn,

and then right after that, forget it all and just "be"!

This is only my opinion of what is happening, for it is present in my own life.

When I can just focus on the moment and flow with what is happening right then without

thinking of future or past events, when I can just "be" right then without placing my own

expectations/judgment of what I believe should be at that moment,

that is when I feel most like I am flowing fully with Tao.

 

The only conscious thing I try to carry with me at all times is the realization

that we are all part of the whole, and to hurt others is in essence to also hurt yourself.

Think of how when we are purposely hurtful, how the negativity can become like a

fire out of control, it has the ability to consume everything we are.

 

The path of negativity is an easy one. The challenge is to see the beauty of the whole,

and know that it all works together, within the perception of "bad", is also the seed of "good".

Nothing exists with out complimentary opposite. The Tao does not "choose" any side.

It is all sides existing at once, only our actions/non-actions determine the flow of events

to follow from moment to moment.

 

We are creating our lives with each passing moment.

 

Are we fully living those moments?

Or are we judging everything and placing expectation of what we think

should be happening, thereby removing ourselves from the flowing nature of the Tao.

It is possible to be present in your life moment by moment, and to let yourself

experience without the distortions of judgment.

 

It is not something we are ever shown in the western world, it is not taught to us.

Nonetheless... the wisdom of 2500 years ago credited to Lao Tzu, does give us the

necessary advice, to break through those barriers that are our judgments and

expectations, and really see our true existence as part of the whole.

 

Being happy with what you have.

The inherent beauty of what those words mean.

Contentment, to me, is not having desires for anything other than what is already present.

No expectation, no judgment of anything not being good enough, or for that matter the idea

of somehow "deserving" more. To think we deserve something more than what is present,

right now in this moment, is one of the seeds of being insatiable and never being able to

be happy with anything.. in the long run.

 

To accept what is right NOW...

To see what is right NOW as whole and complete,

and accept where you are as what is part of your path,

and to know deep within that flowing with this moment is the path of Tao. :wub:

 

 

Peace!

[pilot]

books, websites, videos can't talk beyond their original publication. it is the people that learn, practice, and write (full circle) that make them alive with meaning.

 

the forum has clarified a lot to me and because of that I find it worthwhile to contribute back however I can. it's been a favourable signal to noise ratio so far, and being on the former team with parsimony without loss of poetic meaning is rewarding.

 

as others have said, a discipline can be fairly isolating from the world. this may not replace those friendships that we keep for life, but its a small step in the right direction to connect, celebrate diversity, and act on the emerging glimpses of how much we really share. after a while it can only be

[devoid]

I enjoy my visits to TaoBums.

 

Yes, a great variety of concepts discussed here, some of which I have no interest but others do, and concepts that I have freat interest in and these are the ones I involve myself in.

 

If for no other reason, my discussions with others help me to question my own understandings. This is important, I think. Do we "really" believe what we think we believe? Only through critical thought can one determine this.

 

Oh, sure, there are many things said here that do not lead to further understanding of the Way of Tao. Even some things are said that lead one astray from the Way. But this too is useful because it allows us to determine what we are going to accept or discard.

 

Nothing is black or white but rather different shades of gray. Creation and destruction: just different aspect of the same process. (No, I have no idea why I said that.)

 

I think you managed to phrase it very eloquently, Marblehead. Your words also express how I feel about TTB.

[rookie]

Has it? Do you feel more enlightened by reading the great wealth of knowledge here within?

 

It is great to read everybody's stories, some much more enlightened than others. Some very advanced, some beginning their paths. Many helping others. It really is wonderful to see it all.

 

However i find the more i read the further i distance myself from the tao. It can help me from time to time to create tension within myself to rediscover the path of the tao but each time it steps me back before i step forward. But perhaps when i become more determined to rediscover the path of the tao i temporarily lose my connection to it.

 

I am no master but i have spent plenty of years cultivating and learning seems to be the biggest barrier to my internal peace and quiet. Being happy with what you got becomes more and more difficult as you listen to others, and in the endeavour to have what they have you end up with less and less.

 

Anybody else's feelings?

 

I think you have hit on a really good point. Inner cultivation is a continuous process and noticing the things that work against that is a fork in the road. What do you choose? Scattering your energy and attention? or attending to inner cultivation.

 

You know this is a really good post because it brings out that ongoing choice. It applies to everyone.

 

What do I come here for? Not all the academic, theorital discussions. Those have become more and more a part of this board. Just as you say, I find all the mental learning to be distracting and draining rather than building. Guarding the one in daily life doesn't happen for me when the mind is engaged in learning.

 

I remember when I first joined this was a very lively place. Lots of viewpoints and much more open discussion of personal practice. I remember more colorful characters too, and people with more experience.

 

I miss that. I am not sure why it has all happened, but the community has become more monolythic, if you knwo what I mean. And very tame. A lightning bolt is very cool and fun every now and then LOL

 

So I come here to see what is going on now and then. And I will reply to a post if I find it interesting, like this one.

 

I guess I am going to repeat that the thing I find most valuable is the sharing of personal experience. I find this community much more mental and theoretical. I guess I am much more a reality, experience based cultivator rather than an abstract thinker when it comes to this.

 

So thank you for your sharing your experience of what is happening for you with this board.

[surfingbudda]

Taobums has been of IMMENSE help to me in my spiritual quest. I have always been drawn to the spiritual, but never quite knew which path to take. A series of events recently lead me to this amazing site and since then I have been blown away by the concepts of the Tao. No other ideology besides Taoism has resonated so well with me. But Taoism is a BIG subject and like everything, there seems to be millions of ways to express it, so it can be mind boggling to try and find one's right path by themselves. This forum allows me to find within Taoism, which views I agree with or those I feel no connection towards, (it has been a very fun learning experience ). A while ago I used to be on Robert Bruce's Astral Dynamics forum, which was alright, but I feel this forum is way more stuffed full of diversity of views and knowledge. I have never seen a forum with such a wide range of people, from the casual beginner, to the adept practitioner, to authors of books, to qigong masters, this site has them all. So thank you TAOBUMS, I can safely say after much exploring, I have found my true path which I am thrilled to have done. Now I just need to step out the door and begin my long journey on the chosen path. I hope Taobums has been as helpful to others as it has to me.

Best regards,

Ben

[surfingbudda]

I agree with you Rookie, I think reading people's personal experiences has been of the greatest benefit to me. Theoretical concepts are great, but I think they are best when paired with people's experience bringing the theoretical into their everyday life.

[Sloppy Zhang]

Most definitely

 

Some stuff I'm interested in and helps a lot.

 

Sometimes I see people going through the same things I've gone through, so we can both be helped by our experiences.

 

Sometimes there's a topic I'm not interested in, but later on it will come up, so I'll come back, find it, and see what everyone has to say. Or not.

 

Overall, it's fun.

 

I've gone through periods where I don't really post too often. Then I'll come back. The I'll go, then come back. Don't force it if you feel this is antagonistic to your goals, stop. Maybe one day it will help you out some more again, without taking any steps back.

[Birch]

It's possibly fair to say that TTB's saved my life. Good enough fer ya?

[z00se]

 

Sometimes I see people going through the same things I've gone through, so we can both be helped by our experiences.

 

Sometimes there's a topic I'm not interested in, but later on it will come up, so I'll come back, find it, and see what everyone has to say. Or not.

 

Overall, it's fun.

 

Yeah i agree. It's good helping other people. It's good to ask a question and get responses from lots of people. It's nice to see some good quotes of the literature, i could never be bothered reading through all the literature to find some of the good quotes people have posted in here.

 

However...

 

If for no other reason, my discussions with others help me to question my own understandings. This is important, I think. Do we "really" believe what we think we believe? Only through critical thought can one determine this.

 

This is what i find myself doing if i spend alot of time on taobums. Questioning things, using critical thought and "working things out". All of this is counterproductive for me as i try to live with the tao. I think trying to reason things out using logic is of no use. Someone might work it out and 'ah ha' get their moment of peace but it won't be long till theres something else troubling them and the tension is created again until the next 'ah ha' moment. It's similar to being addicted to buying things or even smoking cigarettes in the way of depriving yourself of inner peace.

 

It's the thought process which is the problem. The rational mind is doing the steps of a + b = c, when really you didn't need to do the a + b part, just jump straight to c. It's easier. I find it the best way of living with the tao. By not thinking at all and there will be no questions but all the answers.

[JustARandomPanda]

If for no other reason, my discussions with others help me to question my own understandings. This is important, I think. Do we "really" believe what we think we believe? Only through critical thought can one determine this.

 

This is a good question Marble. I'm curious to know if critical thinking is your primary or even only tool for self-investigation. If that is too personal a question please ignore it.

 

Speaking only for myself:

 

One thing actually practicing meditation and energy work has demonstrated that - at least in my case - there's a LOT of stuff going on under the hood of which beliefs are only one part of what's going on. It's been a big surprise to discover some things lurking around emotionally, energetically - hell even trapped in my actual physical muscle memory (how the hell did *that* ever happen?!) - that seems to demonstrate beliefs, will and volitions I have held so long (probably since I was a toddler) no amount of critical thinking or examination will bring them out to full understanding.

 

I think maybe it's because things working on those levels did not start at the level of thought (or even pre-thought) - whether rational or non-rational - and so using critical thinking as a tool will give at best only a one-dimensional understanding of all the things that drive me. And those things that drive me however stubborn they are in being revealed critically are assuredly just as much The Tao (including the stuff that makes me sit here and write on a message board instead of practicing more) as the stuff I like to pat myself on the back for for "being more Tao-esque" (is that even a word? Can one be Tao-esque? Tao-ish?).

 

To be honest I've never been able to convince myself that every belief, will, volition, energy or whatever that drives me will be completely revealed by a critical thinking "hammer". You know that old cliche? When all you have is a hammer everything starts looking like a nail. But then again, maybe me telling myself that is a cop out. I sure have never been able to figure out exactly where *that* belief came from either. *shrug*

 

TaoBums has made me aware of strange things I never dreamed of existing even five years ago. The me of five years ago would be shocked speechless by the me of today who's learned many things as a result of this forum.

 

Meh.

 

Don't mind me...I'm just mumbling out loud.

[Marblehead]

Nice post Serene,

 

This is a good question Marble. I'm curious to know if critical thinking is your primary or even only tool for self-investigation. If that is too personal a question please ignore it.

 

 

Yes, critical thinking is my primary tool but not the only tool because I do hold to the importance of intuition. Some things are 'just right' without justification.

 

To the other stuff you spoke of, I do, to a degree, agree with you that there are times when we cannot find the original cause for a particular belief because it was instilled at a very early age and we have forgotten the particulars.

 

But I still believe that if we question the validity of our deeply ingrained beliefs we can make a conscious decision as to whether we wish to continue holding to the belief or that we should replace it with an alternative.

 

So I do hold firmly to the guidance in the TTC and Chuang Tzu that we should observe the processes (nature, other humans, and ourself) and do our best to live in accord with these processes. Where we see conflict between ourself and the natural processes we should try to eliminate the conflict by correcting ourself.

 

Beware though. Some of the processes are not very gentle. And we still have to try to be at peace with our Self.

[Eric23]

I came here to learn, and boy have I learned. I have been exposed to new paths, new ways of thinking, new experiences and new practices. Don't participate in too many discussions, yet read just about all of them. Follow the links given in many topics. I've found the Personal Practice Forums to be very valuable, following the progress of one member on their path is very illuminating. Some of the old timers have become a part of my "on line" life and are friends even though we may never meet in person. I did have a chance to enjoy a pot of tea with a Taobum once, very nice experience, hope there are more in my future. Yes, The Taobums has helped me.

[zerostao]

Has it? Do you feel more enlightened by reading the great wealth of knowledge here within?

 

It is great to read everybody's stories, some much more enlightened than others. Some very advanced, some beginning their paths. Many helping others. It really is wonderful to see it all.

 

However i find the more i read the further i distance myself from the tao. It can help me from time to time to create tension within myself to rediscover the path of the tao but each time it steps me back before i step forward. But perhaps when i become more determined to rediscover the path of the tao i temporarily lose my connection to it.

 

I am no master but i have spent plenty of years cultivating and learning seems to be the biggest barrier to my internal peace and quiet. Being happy with what you got becomes more and more difficult as you listen to others, and in the endeavour to have what they have you end up with less and less.

 

Anybody else's feelings?

i feel tao and taoism are 2 very different things.anything to be fully appreciated has to be experienced not just expressed in words. taijiquan is an example, even tasting water. how can i describe to you what water really tastes like? but if you have experience in tasting water then my words may have deeper meaning for you? i visit this site maybe once a year for a couple of weeks. then i go back to my practices. i find this site very useful . does the site sometimes have a few bummer moments? of course it does, but it also offers up some golden nuggets from time to time. for me this site is a treasure.

[SeriesOfTubes]

Yes I would definitely say it has. Being able to assess the pros and cons of various systems by reading opinions over the last couple years has helped me make an informed decision on how to spend 2 to 3 hours of my day on qi gong or meditation practice that woud otherwise be left to whatever cards i was dealt.

 

All the Buddhism discussions and emphasis on DO has helped me critically examine my own perceptions and caused me to research further in order to actually understand this POV and not gloss over an important piece of human wisdom/heritage. It also helps me with (hypnotism) clients who might be of this persuasion.

[Aetherous]

I came here to learn, and boy have I learned. I have been exposed to new paths, new ways of thinking, new experiences and new practices.

 

Same here. I love this place for that reason.

 

Has taobums helped me? Yes, in my quest for knowledge. But it's up to me to help myself with that knowledge...and not simply spend all of my time taobumming.

[Mal]

[hyok]

even though there are bits of misinformation littered around the site, for the most part there is a strong current of truth rumbling through its underbelly. I honestly don't think another forum has as many genuine seekers and teachers as this site does.

[leo17]

Being here has encouraged me to keep my own Book of Shadows and write down my experiences these last couple of months. Also with the feedback I've gotten for my questions, I've been able to improve my normal skills as well.

[King Kabalabhati]

Soon after coming to TTB I found my current practice (SFQ). Not because it's being advertised here, it wasn't back then but because I saw no negative input on it from the users here. Anyway I'm very happy with it and I hope this forum is equally helpful for others in finding what suits them.

 

Back then I was also going through some crisis with my self and my woman and the support and input from Freeform and many others kept me going with the process and helped understand what might be happening and how to relate in the most constructive manner. This was a very important crisis since all things in my life have gotten better since that and I even got my marriage back together, only this time it's much better since a lot of confusion and emotional problems, attachments, social programming etc. were cleared up in the good old practical Taoist way.

 

Most of the stuff I read here contributes to my "less useful" mental chatter but occasionally I run into interesting or touching bits of information. Thank you all for sharing and much Love vibration to everyone!

Edited December 8, 2010 by King Kabalabhati

[King Kabalabhati]

The idea someone will reach enlightenment visiting an online forum is silly.

 

 

 

The idea may be silly but in this universe... who knows?