[TTC Study] Chapter 6 of the Tao Teh Ching

[mwx]

i just read your post #1, and others i didn;t read.

i am a chinese , and i try to learn Dao for some years.

 

In my understanding , this Chapter 6 is talking another thing , all the translatation you post here , is not right understanding.

Maybe on Chinese charterer, they got no wrong , but , on meaning ,they are wrong.

This Chapter 6 is talking about some general of how body works(by old Chinese ways understanding), no talking about spirit.

[mwx]

ok , i read others reply.

I think , this chapter talks this:(chinese part I use chinese pinyin )

gu shen bu si

This talks human get energy from corn, in human body , some parts work together to get the energy from the corn , and by using the energy , human live.

 

shi wei xuan pin.

This talks some of the human inside parts that work together to get the energy, these parts are called Xuan Pin.

Xuan Pin can understand as mystery gate，by this gate ,human get energy to live . but this gate not only include corn energy.

 

xuan pin zhi men , shi wei tian di zhi gen.

this part i can't understand well.

 

mian mian ruo cun ,yong zhi bu qin.

tells Xuan Pin provides energy , all the time , for normal human , the power is Constant. for normal human , you should not get your output power more then Xuan Pin can provides.

[Marblehead]

shi wei xuan pin.

This talks some of the human inside parts that work together to get the energy, these parts are called Xuan Pin.

Xuan Pin can understand as mystery gate，by this gate ,human get energy to live.

 

I would go along with that.

[ChiDragon]

Chapter 6 The Mysterious Female

1. 谷神不死

2. 是謂玄牝。

3. 玄牝之門

4. 是謂天地根。

5. 綿綿若存，

6. 用之不勤。

 

In PinYin

1. gu shen bu si,

2. shi wei xuan pin.

3. xuan pin zhi men,

4. shi wei tian di gen.

5. mian mian ruo cun,

6. yong zhi bu qin.

 

English translation:

1. The spirit of the valley never dies.

2. It is called the mysterious female.

3. The door of the mysterious female,

4. It is called the root of heaven and earth.

5. She seems existed eternally,

6. With her endless reproduction capability.

 

Annotation:

1. The spirit of the valley was referred as Tao by LaoTze in this chapter. Gu(谷) means valley.

2. 谷神(gu shen) actually means the "god of the valley". Perhaps, it may sound better in English as the "spirit of the valley".

Edited December 11, 2011 by ChiDragon

[Marblehead]

Perhaps, it may sound better in English as the "spirit of the valley".

 

Indeed, I much prefer it this way.

[dawei]

[Marblehead]

 

The question is, how did LZ mean to use it? (in the original form--浴神 (Yu Shen)

 

I'll be damned if I know.

 

I've always considered the valley as a place of rest, where we regain our energy, not necessarily a place of immortality. Of course, I'm not into the immorality stuff so that would be understandable, I think.

[mwx]

I would go along with that.

others reply shows they misunderstand the chapter 6.

vally..............I can't understand what vally tells................

maybe I should write a book on my own way.

Edited December 12, 2011 by mwx

[Marblehead]

others reply shows they misunderstand the chapter 6.

vally..............I can't understand what vally tells................

maybe I should write a book on my own way.

 

Sure, go ahead, write a book.

 

My life would make a good story. My present path would make a nice story. But no, those are my memories. Anyone else who wishes to have a story needs live their own life.

 

Actually, I know the valley that is spoken of. No, in my life it is not in China but rather in Italy - in the foothills of the Alps Mountains.

 

There are many valleys but the spirit resides in all of them. But the spirit does not openly present itself. And we cannot seek it out. It simply becomes a part of us if we are receptive.

 

(Yes, my friends, I realize that this post is not consistent with my normal post. Big deal! Hehehe.)

[ChiDragon]

others reply shows they misunderstand the chapter 6.

vally..............I can't understand what vally tells................

maybe I should write a book on my own way.

How about a little introduction for now the way you think that Chapter 6 was all about....???...

[ChiDragon]

[dawei]

[flowing hands]

Hang on a minute,

 

where's the valley?

 

My masters verse of no.6 has no valley in it at all?

 

The root of Heaven and Earth,

can be found in its spirit.

Search and feel this spirit, for it is ever present; the gateway to all mysteries.

The spirit is the primordial mother of the ten

thousand things.

It is ever present and eternal.

 

Why should just the valley have only spirit?

[ChiDragon]

Hang on a minute,

 

where's the valley?

 

My masters verse of no.6 has no valley in it at all?

 

The root of Heaven and Earth,

can be found in its spirit.

Search and feel this spirit, for it is ever present; the gateway to all mysteries.

The spirit is the primordial mother of the ten

thousand things.

It is ever present and eternal.

 

Why should just the valley have only spirit?

Classic text:

1. 谷神不死(The spirit of the valley never dies.)

 

The spirit of the valley is in the first line of the original classic text. Your masters verse had been ignored it.

Edited December 14, 2011 by ChiDragon

[lienshan]

Edited December 15, 2011 by lienshan

[Marblehead]

Well, I still return to the valley whenever I can.

[ChiDragon]

浴神不死

 

Washing the spirit is being alive.

I didn't know you have a dirty spirit that need to be washed....

Edited December 15, 2011 by ChiDragon

[lienshan]

I didn't know you have a dirty spirit that need to be washed....

 

浴 is too used in the Mawangdui chapter 66 which confirms your information,

that the two characters 浴 and 谷 were interchangable meaning "valley" or "valley streams".

 

But I tried to give his "to bathe" a chance

[ChiDragon]

浴 is too used in the Mawangdui chapter 66 which confirms your information,

that the two characters 浴 and 谷 were interchangable meaning "valley" or "valley streams".

 

But I tried to give his "to bathe" a chance

 

......................

 

It was nice that you had a clean start....

[dawei]

[lienshan]

Valley streams would of been better than Valley in 66.

I agree so lets try valleystreams here in this chapter.

 

A term like 'the spirit of vallystreams' makes no sense so a grammatical plausible solution is:

 

Valleystreams and spirits do not die.

This is called the mysterious femaleness.

 

That'll say Laozi points at a principle and not something specific.

That valleystreams are inside valleys and spirits are inside bodies might be what they have in common?

If so then the second last line of the chapter 綿綿若存 means:

 

The softness of softness is equal to being alive.

[Marblehead]

Well, I still like "Valley Spirit". So there!!!

[ChiDragon]

Well, I still like "Valley Spirit". So there!!!

It is not a matter of liking but understanding.

Somebody need to put the hammer away......

[Marblehead]

It is not a matter of liking but understanding.

Somebody need to put the hammer away......

 

No, no. The hammer must always remain servicable and ready to use.

[dawei]

I agree so lets try valleystreams here in this chapter.

 

A term like 'the spirit of vallystreams' makes no sense so a grammatical plausible solution is:

 

Valleystreams and spirits do not die.

This is called the mysterious femaleness.

 

That'll say Laozi points at a principle and not something specific.

That valleystreams are inside valleys and spirits are inside bodies might be what they have in common?

If so then the second last line of the chapter 綿綿若存 means:

 

The softness of softness is equal to being alive.

I agree with the above bolded comment.

 

It is not really trying to force the spirit on just one thing; it is the spirit which moves along as water moves along the valley.