[TTC Study] Chapter 6 of the Tao Teh Ching

[Marblehead]

Thus one should not rely on them to reflect the contextual meaning of Chapter 6.

Oh, trust me, I am capable of forming my own opinions and understandings.

[dawei]

Fine...!!!

Thank you for those quotes. It seems to me those quotes are personal interpretations but not the consensus of all the knowledgeable native scholars. Thus one should not rely on them to reflect the contextual meaning of Chapter 6.

 

~~~ ADMIN MESSAGE ~~~

 

This is not about any consensus or knowledge of native scholars. This is a community discussing their own understanding, study, and research.

 

DO we really need the 'Westerners don't know shit' message again and again???

 

I would of thought your time off would of given you a chance to figure out how to stay here... but I see I may of been wrong.

 

This is a forum of personal interpretations. But you want everyone to accept your interpretation of native scholars. There is not much more time for elitist post on such issues... You have been given much more time than others. Do you even know why???

 

~~~~~~~~~

[ChiDragon]

Su Ch'e says, "A valley is empty but has form. A valley spirit is empty and has no form. What is empty and has no form is not alive. So how can it die? 'Valley spirit' refers to its virtue. 'Dark womb' refers to its capacity. This womb gives birth to the ten thousand things, and we call it dark because we see it give birth but not how it gives birth."

 

... and ...

 

Hsueh Hui says, "The words Lao-tzu chooses are often determined by the demands of rhyme and should not be restricted to their primary meaning, 'Thus, p'in:female animal can also be read p'in:womb."

 

 

I believe that Su Ch'e and Hsueh Hui are not westerners. I was aiming at them.

[dawei]

I believe that Su Ch'e and Hsueh Hui are not westerners. I was aiming at them.

 

Just look at the spelling of their names!!! OF COURSE they are not westerners... You just don't understand your angst in westerners posting... but that is part of the reason why you should stay here...

[Marblehead]

I believe that Su Ch'e and Hsueh Hui are not westerners. I was aiming at them.

This is likely true and I wouldn't even consider Red Pine a Westerner because if I remember correctly he has spent more of his life in China and other areas in Asia than he has in America.

[Marblehead]

Yes, Chidragon should stay here. I did not take offense from his post. He was challenging me. I have challenged him on numerous occasions.

 

One day he will understand that Westerners can actually think on their own without any help from a Chinese speaking person.

 

Being Chinese does not naturally make one intelligent nor does being a Westerner naturally unable to understand the Chinese mind.

 

Now, where were we?

 

I remember. We got lost in the dark womb.

[ChiDragon]

Yes, Chidragon should stay here. I did not take offense from his post. He was challenging me. I have challenged him on numerous occasions.

 

One day he will understand that Westerners can actually think on their own without any help from a Chinese speaking person.

 

Being Chinese does not naturally make one intelligent nor does being a Westerner naturally unable to understand the Chinese mind.

 

Now, where were we?

 

Who says I was living? Unless otherwise, my stay was interrupted by some administrative functions again.

 

Now, where were we?

Oh! Yes, we are at a point to have double standards. I will monitor to the native source that was used as references, with errors, more closely. And be more linear with the westerners for a change to avoid any international incidents.....

[dawei]

 

Who says I was living? Unless otherwise, my stay was interrupted by some administrative functions again.

 

Now, where were we?

Oh! Yes, we are at a point to have double standards. I will monitor to the native source that was used as references, with errors, more closely. And be more linear with the westerners for a change to avoid any international incidents.....

 

~~~ ADMIN MESSAGE ~~~

 

You were warned last time about wanting to get in one more last word of disdain to staff. And here you do it again.

 

A staff message in a thread is not looking for any further discussion on the matter, but stop what is going on. You continue to ignore this. Let this go back to topic.

 

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

[Crow With No Mouth]

It's been a long while, but I translated another chapter:

 

 

Spirit of the void never dies. She is called the mysterious mother.

From her opening comes all things manifest.

 

Like a ceaseless gossamer.

With only a hint of existence, She seem everlasting.

 

She functions effortlessly, never draining.

 

 

 

During translating this I realized that (at least to the limits of my logical capabilities, it has to be so) that matter and consciousness can't exist without each other (if one ceases, the other goes as well). And THIS is nothing but a dance between the two. I felt like this chapter was talking about how Nothing gives birth to matter and that's what this translation speaks for. Of course I realize that Lao Tzu had multiple meanings to his text, but given that it would take multiple translations to represent them all in English, it felt right to translate it this way.

 

I chose spirit of the void over spirit of valley, because it's easier to understand and believe is what's been talked about. That Nothing that had to (to the best of my logical capability) be there before anything else - mysterious mother if you will. 

 

The next line I chose mostly because the sexual undertones pleased me (pun intended).

 

"Like a ceaseless gossamer", I like how this relates to Higgs field, which is continuous, invisible, infinite all pervading field that gives things mass, which according to an article I read is a quality of physical existence. By my limited understanding of physics, other things are made of bosons, which also comes down to the next line.

 

"With only hint..." I actually like the sound of - barely visible, yet seemingly everlasting - but translated it as I did because it better describes the idea. Might still end up changing it later though. Anyway, this line represents that we can only see Her through Her creation.

 

The last line was hard to translate. It obviously has multiple meanings. I went with this one cause it supported the other lines and gives an idea of effortless creation. It just happens, it's not   work or draining in any way and there's seemingly no end to it.