Big Brother 1984 in U.S.

[ralis]

I just saw this and it really freaked me out!

 

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2010/12/homeland-security-messages-coming-walmart-hotels-malls/

 

 

Edited December 7, 2010 by ralis

[Sloppy Zhang]

This is something that I read about, talk about, and write about pretty frequently, especially in the post 9/11 era- there is no real definition of "suspicious" that you hear anybody give. You hear them SAY suspicious.... but what is suspicious?

 

With no clear definition, people are left to judge suspicious using whatever prejudices and preconceptions they have at their ready disposal. This doesn't help stop crime/terror/whatever, it just gives a loophole for people to report those of different faiths/appearances to the police.

 

 

 

On that note, how do you guys feel about the wikileaks business?

[ralis]

This is something that I read about, talk about, and write about pretty frequently, especially in the post 9/11 era- there is no real definition of "suspicious" that you hear anybody give. You hear them SAY suspicious.... but what is suspicious?

 

With no clear definition, people are left to judge suspicious using whatever prejudices and preconceptions they have at their ready disposal. This doesn't help stop crime/terror/whatever, it just gives a loophole for people to report those of different faiths/appearances to the police.

 

 

 

On that note, how do you guys feel about the wikileaks business?

 

Assange is doing what all journalists should be doing. Frankly, there are very few real journalists at this point in time. Corporate shills are the norm!

[NeiChuan]

I just saw this and it really freaked me out!

 

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2010/12/homeland-security-messages-coming-walmart-hotels-malls/

 

 

 

Im fine for the whole thing except for the mentioning of wal-mart. But my idea of suspicious activity may be different.

 

Look, we don't need a tv advertisement to tell us "Our government is in league with lobbyists, and bankers". Its BEYOND obvious. For one example, look at ALL the mainstream media pummeling the wikileaks founder over presenting more information, that our governments are corrupt.

 

Why would they all attack him/them? Because they are doing the right thing, which their bosses disagree with in the situation.

 

Sorry to make everything about wikileaks, although it does display a point of how impressionable people are due to alittle image of power.

[NeiChuan]

This is something that I read about, talk about, and write about pretty frequently, especially in the post 9/11 era- there is no real definition of "suspicious" that you hear anybody give. You hear them SAY suspicious.... but what is suspicious?

 

With no clear definition, people are left to judge suspicious using whatever prejudices and preconceptions they have at their ready disposal. This doesn't help stop crime/terror/whatever, it just gives a loophole for people to report those of different faiths/appearances to the police.

 

 

 

On that note, how do you guys feel about the wikileaks business?

 

 

Assange is doing what all journalists should be doing. Frankly, there are very few real journalists at this point in time. Corporate shills are the norm!

 

Right when im writing a reply that has to do with wikileaks you two mention it

[Sloppy Zhang]

Right when im writing a reply that has to do with wikileaks you two mention it

 

How can we not?

 

But it's interesting- there's a lot of anger directed towards wikileaks, even amongst citizens, because they claim that the government has a right to hide some things, that there are some things that the public just doesn't need to see, etc etc. It seems that a lot of people are thinking, "as long as I don't have to see or know about it, I don't care."

 

Which in my opinion, is a very, VERY dangerous position for people to take, especially in a country where it's the people who are supposed to (in theory) be the check to the government! It only has as much power (in theory) as the people let it have, and people are WILLINGLY letting the government have it!

 

Groups like wikileaks come out, and there are people who are calling for him to be tried for treason (even though people don't seem to understand that he's not from the US, so you can't try him for treason.....)

 

Now I don't support releasing information that puts lives in danger. And I don't think that wikileaks releases that stuff (in fact, apparently Assange has kept those files encrypted, only to be released in the event that someone makes an attempt on his life).

 

From what I've perused myself, it's mostly stuff for internal usage.

 

But on top of that, people don't even look into things like media ownership. As soon as you start talking about this, the word "conspiracy" inevitably gets thrown out into the mix. And when people hear that, they think of UFO's. When they think of those, they think of nutjobs in the middle of nowhere. And when they think of that, you automatically lose credibility. Because obviously you are a nutjob in the middle of nowhere because you believe in corporate conspiracies which means that you believe in aliens and everyone knows that's all made up.

 

The way society on its own reproduces itself needs very little prodding from the government. And of course, we turn to the people who are in power and they just stay in power. The people push it along on their own. The snowball is already well on its way down the hill.

Edited December 7, 2010 by Sloppy Zhang

[surfingbudda]

If America ever becomes like 1984, all the people of Tao Bums should form their own Taoist Country and call it Taobumia

[Sloppy Zhang]

If America ever becomes like 1984, all the people of Tao Bums should form their own Taoist Country and call it Taobumia

 

"America will never become like that, the people are too smart, and will stop it long before it gets there." - Actual words from somebody in a class I took when we discussed this very subject

[NeiChuan]

How can we not?

 

But it's interesting- there's a lot of anger directed towards wikileaks, even amongst citizens, because they claim that the government has a right to hide some things, that there are some things that the public just doesn't need to see, etc etc. It seems that a lot of people are thinking, "as long as I don't have to see or know about it, I don't care."

 

Which in my opinion, is a very, VERY dangerous position for people to take, especially in a country where it's the people who are supposed to (in theory) be the check to the government! It only has as much power (in theory) as the people let it have, and people are WILLINGLY letting the government have it!

 

Groups like wikileaks come out, and there are people who are calling for him to be tried for treason (even though people don't seem to understand that he's not from the US, so you can't try him for treason.....)

 

Now I don't support releasing information that puts lives in danger. And I don't think that wikileaks releases that stuff (in fact, apparently Assange has kept those files encrypted, only to be released in the event that someone makes an attempt on his life).

 

From what I've perused myself, it's mostly stuff for internal usage.

 

But on top of that, people don't even look into things like media ownership. As soon as you start talking about this, the word "conspiracy" inevitably gets thrown out into the mix. And when people hear that, they think of UFO's. When they think of those, they think of nutjobs in the middle of nowhere. And when they think of that, you automatically lose credibility. Because obviously you are a nutjob in the middle of nowhere because you believe in corporate conspiracies which means that you believe in aliens and everyone knows that's all made up.

 

The way society on its own reproduces itself needs very little prodding from the government. And of course, we turn to the people who are in power and they just stay in power. The people push it along on their own. The snowball is already well on its way down the hill.

 

Hm credibility. A degree is a nice little sign of credibility, but when you lie and crap on 100s of people repeatedly, your words are empty.

 

Alot of these people belong in jail, let alone not have any credibility in the media.

[Sloppy Zhang]

Hm credibility. A degree is a nice little sign of credibility, but when you lie and crap on 100s of people repeatedly, your words are empty.

 

Alot of these people belong in jail, let alone not have any credibility in the media.

 

Yes, well that credibility is all part of social reproduction.

 

People with a degree are more credible than people who don't have degrees.

 

You get degrees by working inside a structure in one way or another. Even after you get your degree, you can have it removed.

 

Obviously the methods in order to get the degree will teach you the "right ways". Anything outside that "right way" is the "wrong way".

 

People accept that, and work with it. Now obviously there's some wiggle room. Things evolve. Mostly as society changes. At one point, if a scientist contradicted Aristotle, or the Church, or their king/dictator/benefactor, they were removed. Until we became "enlightened" and we started doing science for the sake of unbiased knowledge. Right? We still do that... right?

 

Reporters learn how to report so they can tell us things accurately, right? But much has been written and said about the limitations of journalism. Reliance on "official" sources means you're only going to get the response that the source wants you to get. You can investigate, and find alternate views, but only if those alternatives are also "credible".

 

If you don't have a degree or a significant amount of experience on the field, then you aren't even fit to comment on the situation. Even if someone takes a dump on hundreds of people, well, they obviously knew more than us, who are we to criticize them?

 

Rather sickeningly twisted if you ask me.

Edited December 7, 2010 by Sloppy Zhang

[surfingbudda]

"America will never become like that, the people are too smart, and will stop it long before it gets there." - Actual words from somebody in a class I took when we discussed this very subject

 

I hope your right, America seems to have a good amount of Gullible people who will believe whatever were told and don't think for themselves. A big part of it all I think is the media, which is really all controlled by big corporate and government money, for example my dad's friend went to an anti-Iraq protest at Washington D.C. with that had over 100,000 people and the news did't even cover it. Then theres a Tea Party protest with 5,000 people and the news goes crazy covering it everywhere.

 

Heres some facts from the Wikipedia Tea Party page about the unfairness of the media.

Media coverage

US News and World Report reported that the nature of the coverage of the protests has become part of the story.[173] On CNN's Situation Room, journalist Howard Kurtz commented that "much of the media seems to have chosen sides." He says that Fox News portrayed the protests "as a big story, CNN as a modest story, and MSNBC as a great story to make fun of. And for most major newspapers, it's a nonstory."[173] There are reports that the movement has been actively promoted by the Fox News Channel, indicating a possible media bias.[174][175]

 

 

Tea Party protesters walk towards the United States Capitol during the Taxpayer March on Washington, September 12, 2009.

According to Fairness and Accuracy in Reporting, there is a disparity between large coverage of the Tea Party movement and minimal coverage of larger movements. In 2009, the major Tea Party protests were quoted twice as often as the National Equality March despite a much lower turnout.[176] In 2010, a Tea Party protest was covered 59 times more than the US Social Forum (177 Tea Party mentions versus 3 for Social Forum) despite an attendance that was 25 times smaller in size (600 Tea Party attendees versus at least 15,000 for Social Forum).[177]

[Sloppy Zhang]

My outlook on Americans being "too smart" is not very optimistic. Because of how deeply ingrained the thoughts are in the culture and society itself. Because it's not JUST media conglomerates controlling the news that are the problem. It's the organization of various institutions which instruct people from the time they are born that society is a certain way, that there are certain standards. It's the very gradual way that people WILLINGLY hand over their power and their rights.

 

I'll hand over a little bit, I still have a lot left.

 

I'll hand over a little bit, I still have a lot left.

 

I'll hand over a little bit, I still have a lot left.

 

I'll hand over a little bit, I still have a- oh fuck.

 

Except even then, it doesn't occur that way! It's more like:

 

I've always had so much, I'll hand over a little bit, I still have a lot left.

 

I've always had so much, I'll hand over a little bit, I still have a lot left.

 

I've always had so much, I'll hand over a little bit, I still have a lot left.

 

I've always had so much..................

 

Nobody recognizes how much they've given over, because they've never known otherwise.

[surfingbudda]

Like you say, people are raised from the beginning to hand over their power, no offense to anyone but I think the Church and other mainstream religions are all about controlling the masses and teach people from the start that they have no power themselves and must put faith in "God" and the church for their "savior".

[Sloppy Zhang]

Like you say, people are raised from the beginning to hand over their power, no offense to anyone but I think the Church and other mainstream religions are all about controlling the masses and teach people from the start that they have no power themselves and must put faith in "God" and the church for their "savior".

 

I'm hesitant to say it's any one thing. Because really, society is large and complex. Plenty of people grow up in Church culture, and actually wind up swinging wildly the OTHER way.

 

So how do you control that?

 

By telling people they are free and can do what they want..... but you've already accounted for that.

 

The best slaves are the ones that don't realize they're slaves.

 

Kinda an extreme view, but interesting I think.

[surfingbudda]

Interesting...ya society is definitely way too complex to pinpoint anyone thing, I do think the Military Industrial Complex is one of the main factors behind much of the evil in this society though. President Eisenhower even warned against the MIC during his final speech.

So are you saying that the biggest slaves are people who practice things like Taoism and think they are free but really aren't?

Edited December 7, 2010 by surfingbudda

[Sloppy Zhang]

So are you saying that the biggest slaves are people who practice things like Taoism and think they are free but really aren't?

 

I'm saying that one has to be very, VERY careful when treading such a path. However, I think that such a path which encourages introspection and really rigorous observance of self can help prevent you being just another slave that thinks you're free.

 

What are your motivations for doing the things you do? Where did it come from? How are your actions impacting others/society as a whole? Questions along this line are things you should be frequently asking.

 

It's kind of like, take a person who's arrogant, and always saying, "haha, I'm better than you, I'm stronger than you, I'm faster than you, haha!" and he learns, "oh, I need to be more humble!" then he goes around saying, "I'm more humble than you! I can go soooo long without bragging. Yeah, I got the humility thing down. You should practice more, because I'm beating you."

 

Is that person REALLY being more humble?

 

It's so easy to THINK you've escaped, but still be trapped in an potentially more ensnaring trap, because you think you are not trapped...

 

Now one person might REALLY be more humble than another person. And if you are making such an appraisal about yourself or someone else, well, really try to understand the motivations and reasons and other checks that you go through before saying/thinking that. Be critical with yourself- is your appraisal really HONEST?

Edited December 7, 2010 by Sloppy Zhang

[surfingbudda]

[Alfred E]

quote name='ralis' date='07 December 2010 - 02:47 PM' timestamp='1291704448' post='227873']

I just saw this and it really freaked me out!

 

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2010/12/homeland-security-messages-coming-walmart-hotels-malls/

 

 

 

What does it take to make a Terrorist?

An Invading Army.

 

What does it take to make A suicide bomber?

A dead; son, brother, father, sister or wife..

 

 

The same scenerio has been played in the past -

Beginning with the Holy crusades A.K.A. Bush On a Mission for God?

The results were The Ottoman Empire that lasted from 1299 to 1923 & covered Europe.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ottoman_Empire

 

This was one of the reasons I relocated to Peaceloving & Neutral China ...

 

The place where there are more nuclear warheads stored than any other?

The place that has used nuclear bombs on civilian populations?

Education is the key to survival.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Depleted_uranium

 

X

Edited December 7, 2010 by Alfred E

[Sloppy Zhang]

What does it take to make a Terrorist?

An Invading Army.

 

What does it take to make A suicide bomber?

A dead; son, brother, father, sister or wife..

 

 

The same scenerio has been played in the past -

Beginning with the Holy crusades A.K.A. Bush On a Mission for God?

The results were The Ottoman Empire that lasted from 1299 to 1923 & covered Europe.

http://en.wikipedia..../Ottoman_Empire

This was one of the reasons I relocated to Peaceloving & Neutral China ...

 

Because, you know, China hasn't done anything to, say Tibet recently.

 

This is a game that EVERYONE plays. Not just America. America is certainly one of the bigger (biggest?) players. Same old story. Different times. Different players. Same game.

 

Not to mention that, depending on your working definition, there are terrorists even in countries that aren't invading. How is it you are defining terrorist? "Terrorism" as a type of tactic can take many forms. Street gangs can be terrorists. Street gangs, and other relatively low level forms of organized crime are all over the world.

Edited December 7, 2010 by Sloppy Zhang

[Alfred E]

It seems you conviently left out the part where I wrote:

"Education is the Key to Survival."

Have you been to Tibet? I have and the people that work their farms are happy to have land that they were not allowed to own under the rule of the Lama/LandLords.

Look - I'm not going to argue with your kind. Let's just wait and see who survives.

 

Meanwhile Enjoy my Iggy.

Edited December 7, 2010 by Alfred E

[Sloppy Zhang]

It seems you conviently left out the part where I wrote:

"Education is the Key to Survival."

 

It seems you conveniently added that in long after my initial comment (you first edited in two lines that started with "the place", which I had seen when I wrote my post, and then when you made this new post apparently had simultaneously added in the bit about education- that's how I saw it on my end, anyway).

 

At the very least you could hold me accountable for stuff that I would have realistically seen at the time of my writing of the post!

 

Look - I'm not going to argue with your kind.

 

What exactly is "my kind"?

Edited December 7, 2010 by Sloppy Zhang

[ralis]

Assange was just arrested. I think the charges are bogus. After he threatened the banks, then the pressure to shut him down was greatly increased. He is not being given due process and is already being treated as guilty. No bail is being granted.

 

 

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/12/07/wikileaks-arrest-julian-assange-arrested_n_793077.html

Edited December 7, 2010 by ralis

[Sloppy Zhang]

Assange was just arrested. I think the charges are bogus. After he threatened the banks, then the pressure to shut him down was greatly increased. He is not being given due process and is already being treated as guilty. No bail is being granted.

 

 

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/12/07/wikileaks-arrest-julian-assange-arrested_n_793077.html

 

Yeah, pretty lame. It says this:

 

Judge Howard Riddle told Assange that he had "substantial grounds" to believe the 39-year-old Australian wouldn't turn up for subsequent proceedings. He then put Assange into U.K. custody ahead of an extradition hearing.

 

I don't know what "substantial grounds" he had, as Julian Assange gave all his contact information and location to the British police as soon as he entered the country. He and his legal team have never backed away from legitimate investigations. Media circus? Yes, that is what they have been avoiding.

 

The case that the warrant was issued for was already thrown out, but was only reopened significantly later. It's all highly suspicious.

[goldisheavy]

I just saw this and it really freaked me out!

 

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2010/12/homeland-security-messages-coming-walmart-hotels-malls/

 

Couldn't agree more.

 

I think somehow the USA government is becoming more distant from the people than ever and less beholden to the people. It's almost like a kind of mini-monarchy of sorts. Sure, certain people can get elected into it, but the field is not wide open, to say the least. It's an exclusive club with a lot of secrecy and while it should be serving the public, it feels like it's trying to rule the public instead, at least on some days. It's very disgusting.

 

But then again, I was shocked back when they created "The Patriot Act" followed by FISA. This video just adds insult to injury, and I am not surprised to see the cocksucking Walton family assist the government in this. I hope they choke on their billions which they've earned on the backs of many wages slaves and many real Chinese slaves living in barracks and making Walmart products.

Edited December 7, 2010 by goldisheavy

[joeblast]

Capitolism!