Wikileaks - Thoughts

[NeiChuan]

Wikileaks was mentioned a bit ago in another post. So since it's been a big deal I figured I'd open one so people have a place to voice there opinions about wikileaks.

 

Don't be shy

[JohnC]

If you don't like people hearing about it, you shouldn't be doing it.

 

The only good government is a small one.

 

Wikileaks keeps people honest and the government in line.

 

 

John

[Ulises]

We are seeing an economic meltdown ( the psychopaths at Wall Street), a religious meltdown ( the psychopaths at the Vatican)...and now a politic meltdown (the psychopaths in all the goverments)...

Bravo, Julian Assange! we need more warriors for freedom!

 

Another step in the long road towards the retrieval of the primordial state, what the Dzogchen practitioner, professor Elias Capriles calls the "postmodern ecomunism", meaning:

"The most ancient Eurasian mystical traditions achieving a state of Communion that

discloses the true, single nature of all animate and inanimate entities veiled by the illusion

of inherent multiplicity—including Indian Shaivism, Himalayan Bön, Chinese Taoism,

Persian Zurvanism, the Egyptian cult of Osiris and the Greek Dionysian mysteries.."

from

Capriles, E., (enero 2007 ), “From Primal to Postmodern Ecommunism.”.

 

http://webdelprofesor.ula.ve/humanidades/elicap/en/Main/BookChapters

Edited December 7, 2010 by Ulises

[Ulises]

[NeiChuan]

Hm I agree, this is the first time information such has this, or this much has been released at one time.

 

If it seems the entire world has been stirred by this it's for good reason.

 

The people incharge actually have something to fear for, for once.

 

Unless people forget about it in 8 months or so, once again like many happenings.

 

God I hope not

[Apech]

The Wikileaks thing is interesting but I don't think it's as significant as people make out. I cannot imagine the diplomats being able to carry on their business without being able to brief and comment in confidence. Now they know that stuff can be leaked they will just find a new encrypted or secure way to keep chatting - which is what (most of the time) we want them to be doing. Nothing is new under the heavens - its just the technology that has got bigger and possibly better.

[idquest]

There are facts, analysis, and dirty underware in journalism. I'd say wikileaks is facts/dirty underware like 50/50 proportion. Nothing substantially new or eye-opening, lots of dirty underware though. Overall, more harm than good.

 

In life, you often need closed doors to thouroughly discuss things. Not because you are inherently bad or corrupt but because you don't want to unnecessarily hurt other people. Wikileaks makes the needed discussions harder to do. Which is not good because the accuracy will suffer and worse decision making will result from that.

[NeiChuan]

 

In life, you often need closed doors to thouroughly discuss things. Not because you are inherently bad or corrupt but because you don't want to unnecessarily hurt other people. Wikileaks makes the needed discussions harder to do. Which is not good because the accuracy will suffer and worse decision making will result from that.

 

 

There's room for debate about that.

 

The fact is that the government aswell as corporations in league with the corrupt, will now think twice.

 

Also the fact that before this all happened corruption in the government was barely mentioned on the mainstream media, or labeled conspiracy.. All people have to do is read it now, rather then hear some skewed perspective that will just disappear in a week anyway.

[Alfred E]

Wikileaks was mentioned a bit ago in another post. So since it's been a big deal I figured I'd open one so people have a place to voice there opinions about wikileaks.

 

Don't be shy

I'm tending to take China's viewpoint with this situation as the wikileak information has tried to drive a wedge between North Korea and China. This simply would not happen in Asia.

 

Wikileaks is obviously being used as a tool for propaganda.

 

Why?

To see the reality of this read Asian History -Or- more easily evident take a look at geography. China and North Korea are joined at the hip with no way of becoming separated.

 

For China to do anything to destroy this relationship it would be tantamount to political suicide. For a trusted politician, with the Chinese Government, to work to destroy this relationship it is same-same.

 

Korea has been the first point of attack for any nation trying to gain a military foothold leading into China for the past 100 or so years. (Korean/USA war, Japan/Korean war are examples) The wars are fought in Korea - China is kept safe - N. Korea is taken care of when the natural cycles of poverty, famine, etc occur.

 

Simply put - China and North Korea have had a long standing and mutually beneficial symbiotic relationship that if destroyed would damage both nations equaly.

 

As this information is common knowledge in China And Korea - even a common street pedler would not make the comments that wikileaks has claimed against China.

Claims such as this would be seen as social suicide. The person's work would suffer, their children would be ostracized at school etc -etc. A Carrer politician would definately not even think of these comments.

 

Wikileaks is obviously being used as a tool for propaganda - not by individuals but by a nation or nations with something to gain by an effort to destroy the China/Korea relationship.

 

In reality, it points toward an effort preceeding an attack, by a foreign nation on either China or N. Korea.

 

It does fit very well with this occurrence happening as an attack on South Korea being facilitated -not by N. Korea- but by another nation with objectives that would be accomplished through such an act. http://content.usatoday.com/communities/ondeadline/post/2010/03/south-korean-patrol-boat-sinks-after-explosion-in-disputed-waters/1

[NeiChuan]

I'm tending to take China's viewpoint with this situation as the wikileak information has tried to drive a wedge between North Korea and China. This simply would not happen in Asia.

 

Wikileaks is obviously being used as a tool for propaganda.

 

Why?

To see the reality of this read Asian History -Or- more easily evident take a look at geography. China and North Korea are joined at the hip with no way of becoming separated.

 

For China to do anything to destroy this relationship it would be tantamount to political suicide. For a trusted politician, with the Chinese Government, to work to destroy this relationship it is same-same.

 

Korea has been the first point of attack for any nation trying to gain a military foothold leading into China for the past 100 or so years. (Korean/USA war, Japan/Korean war are examples) The wars are fought in Korea - China is kept safe - N. Korea is taken care of when the natural cycles of poverty, famine, etc occur.

 

Simply put - China and North Korea have had a long standing and mutually beneficial symbiotic relationship that if destroyed would damage both nations equaly.

 

As this information is common knowledge in China And Korea - even a common street pedler would not make the comments that wikileaks has claimed against China.

Claims such as this would be seen as social suicide. The person's work would suffer, their children would be ostracized at school etc -etc. A Carrer politician would definately not even think of these comments.

 

Wikileaks is obviously being used as a tool for propaganda - not by individuals but by a nation or nations with something to gain by an effort to destroy the China/Korea relationship.

 

In reality, it points toward an effort preceeding an attack, by a foreign nation on either China or N. Korea.

 

It does fit very well with this occurrence happening as an attack on South Korea being facilitated -not by N. Korea- but by another nation with objectives that would be accomplished through such an act. http://content.usatoday.com/communities/ondeadline/post/2010/03/south-korean-patrol-boat-sinks-after-explosion-in-disputed-waters/1

 

 

Right so along with China/N Korea the people operating the strings take down there own puppets. Also hurt the image of the war effort in Afganistan.

 

There's also information about to be released on the Federal reserve. Tell me.. Why would the corrupt shoot themselves in the foot so badly?

 

Im sorry if the wikileaks don't seem to match your standards of classified. But these things don't happen enough, and people need all the help they can get now.

 

Instead of just sitting,listening, to what you hear about wikileaks, read it.

[Alfred E]

Right so along with China/N Korea the people operating the strings take down there own puppets. Also hurt the image of the war effort in Afganistan.

 

There's also information about to be released on the Federal reserve. Tell me.. Why would the corrupt shoot themselves in the foot so badly?

 

Im sorry if the wikileaks don't seem to match your standards of classified. But these things don't happen enough, and people need all the help they can get now.

 

Instead of just sitting,listening, to what you hear about wikileaks, read it.

There is a difference between "hurting the image of a war effort" and destroying a symbiotic relationship between two nations that has kept the peoples of the two nations safe.

 

But then again it seems your focus is not on peaceful coexistance but rather WAR for profit.

The first motivation of war being "War is poor man's pain, rich man's gain".

The second motivation I suggest for you: "WAR is good business: Invest your son".

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_are_the_natural_resources_in_Iraq

Enough of this drivel.

Enjoy your Iggy.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/06/14/world/asia/14minerals.html

[NeiChuan]

There is a difference between "hurting the image of a war effort" and destroying a symbiotic relationship between two nations that has kept the peoples of the two nations safe.

 

But then again it seems your focus is not on peaceful coexistance but rather WAR for profit.

The first motivation of war being "War is poor man's pain, rich man's gain".

The second motivation I suggest for you: "WAR is good business: Invest your son".

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_are_the_natural_resources_in_Iraq

Enough of this drivel.

Enjoy your Iggy.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/06/14/world/asia/14minerals.html

 

You haden't said anything I haven't here. I don't see your point.

 

By shooting themselves in the foot due to the surge in Afghanistan, I mean this very thing. Aswell as the troops staying in Iraq.

 

We either fight for resources, or to set up a democracy to sell weapons to in the future.

 

If you want to sit on your high horse again, please be my guest and reply.

[Soulthriller]

This entire situation with Wikileaks is quite interesting...not in that it reveals some surprising new secrets, but because of the effects this disclosure is having on the collective consciousness. Could this be the reason for the jump in novelty in Timewave Zero in October/November? Could it be the initiator of a quantum shift in awareness and realization? I think this Wikileaks situation will help stir many from their slumbers and it seems like it is providing an opportunity for humanity to take the path leading towards a bright future, rather than a dystopian darkness. Could it have been a created event within the timeline from the subtle plane of reality in order to get people to notice that there is little time to change the potentially disastrous future we are creating for our species and the planet? I think it is certainly possible...

[goldisheavy]

For the most part I love Wikileaks and I support their overall mission. I only wish Wikileaks would be a touch less dramatic in their execution. I hope this will happen soon with the recent change in management. Julian just liked to get everyone riled up a bit too much for my liking. He liked to build tension and create hype. I think he was doing that to maximize exposure and impact, but this has also had some drawbacks to the mission of Wikileaks. I still like Julian even with his flaws as I see them.

[Sloppy Zhang]

For the most part I love Wikileaks and I support their overall mission. I only wish Wikileaks would be a touch less dramatic in their execution. I hope this will happen soon with the recent change in management. Julian just liked to get everyone riled up a bit too much for my liking. He liked to build tension and create hype. I think he was doing that to maximize exposure and impact, but this has also had some drawbacks to the mission of Wikileaks. I still like Julian even with his flaws as I see them.

 

Well in one sense creating hype let's people know who you are, and let's them know that something is happening.

 

If Julian Assange suddenly died, it would be a big deal. If every wikileaks site suddenly shut down, it'd be a big deal. People would ask questions and investigate.

 

There is a certain safety in living in the public eye. It limits the number of things people can do to you, and it limits the number of people who can do them to you.

[Apech]

On the news today that hackers have closed down Mastercard and other sites which have withdrawn services from Wikileaks - also hacked the lawyers website apparently. Its more interesting to see how the cyber-battle pans out than any of the content of the leaks. This kind of thing is more or less inevitable once the internet is there - I'm just surprised its taken so long to get to this point.

[goldisheavy]

Well in one sense creating hype let's people know who you are, and let's them know that something is happening.

 

If Julian Assange suddenly died, it would be a big deal. If every wikileaks site suddenly shut down, it'd be a big deal. People would ask questions and investigate.

 

There is a certain safety in living in the public eye. It limits the number of things people can do to you, and it limits the number of people who can do them to you.

 

When I said "a touch less" I really meant it. I know Wikileaks does need some level of hype for what they're doing, but I do think they could create a slightly more somber and less excitable atmosphere. Getting everyone's panties in a bunch 2 weeks before the leak has benefit and drawbacks too. It raises the profile of the Wikileaks project, but it also creates a false impression that more damage has been done in those minds that don't like Wikileaks.

 

Compare it to cryptome.org. Cryptome also releases leaks, but it's very very low key. Thus, there was never any media hoopla about it and you might not even know about it. I think cryptome is too far on the "low key" end of the scale and wikileaks is too far on the "mega hype" end of the scale. There should be some entity that leaks things somewhere in the middle. It shouldn't be as low key and as invisible and under the radar as cryptome, but it should be less circus-like and melodramatic than Wikileaks.

 

Because cryptome is so low key, no one thinks it's damaging anything even though it's been leaking all kinds of stuff for a very long time. At the same time, no one knows who or what cryptome is, and that's bad too. A fine balance is needed.

 

Just my 2c.

Edited December 8, 2010 by goldisheavy

[Mal]

[Ulises]

Interesting post in Reality Sandwich: beyond wikileaks...

 

http://www.realitysandwich.com/twelve_theses_wikileaks

[Ulises]

Brazil's President Luiz Inacio Lula da Silva on Thursday expressed "solidarity" with jailed WikiLeaks founder Julian Assange, criticising the Australian activist's arrest as a blow against "freedom of expression."

 

Fascinating: this news appears in Arab,

http://www.emirates247.com/news/world/lula-voices-solidarity-with-assange-2010-12-09-1.327324

 

French

http://www.7sur7.be/7s7/fr/1505/Monde/article/detail/1193661/2010/12/09/Lula-proteste-contre-la-detention-du-fondateur-de-Wikileaks.dhtml

 

Argentine

http://www.lanacion.com.ar/nota.asp?nota_id=1332075

 

ans Spaniard media

http://www.elpais.com/articulo/internacional/Lula/dice/detencion/Assange/atenta/libertad/expresion/elpepuint/20101209elpepuint_18/Tes

 

 

nowhere else.... yet...

[Ulises]

[Ulises]

"When they came for the Jews and the blacks, I turned away : When they came for the writers and the thinkers and the radicals and the protesters, I turned away : When they came for the gays, and the minorities, and the utopians, and the dancers, I turned away : And when they came for me, I turned around and around, and there was nobody left..."

Hue and Cry,song recorded at Cirque Royale, Brussels.

[ralis]

One of Assange's accusers leaves for the middle east. This is getting twisted!

 

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2010/12/assange-accuser-stops-cooperating-police/

[Sloppy Zhang]

One of Assange's accusers leaves for the middle east. This is getting twisted!

 

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2010/12/assange-accuser-stops-cooperating-police/

 

Twisted indeed!

[Komako]

I used to admin a server of around 500 so called "Anonymous" members. This really isn't so much "cyber warfare" as a number of targetted server raids that aren't hard at all to pull off.

 

The media's jargon is completely off base here =/ not every person on the underbelly of the internet is a hacker, much less a "hacktivist!"

 

The government's corruption is no new news; the documents Wikileaks has released are easily available online if you know where to look (zoklet? 4chan?). Unfortunately it's been a few years since I've been connected with that community and I'm a bit off base.

 

The charges against Julian Assange are false,

 

bright blessings,

 

Koma