Wikileaks - Thoughts

Sloppy Zhang · December 13, 2010

Change your focus, from one of watching the world outside your widow with paranoid
apprehension, to one of accomplishing what is necessary to live a fuller, more content life.

Observation does not mean you are paranoid. Just because you see scary things does not mean you are afraid. Just because you reveal scary facts does not mean you are fear mongering. Just because you turn off the tv does not mean you are free from the shackles that bind. Just because you are a nice person does not mean you are changing anything. Just because Chen style tai chi is fast does not mean it's not tai chi.

Focus on what you do know.
Know yourself... know your life...

know that its up to you to make the best of your life right now in this moment.

I agree with this, however with a caveat of my own: not to the exclusion of all else.

Is filling this moment with fear for what's unknown or even unknowable, the best use of your existence?

Just because the truth is scary does not mean you are filling this moment with fear.

If you say yes, then I'm glad you are happy. But look deep to fully understand your motivation for your
acts/thoughts, if they are based on fear then most likely they are irrational as well.

As I have said in threads concerning self defense, preparation is not paranoia. Investigation is not fear. There is nothing irrational about looking through history and seeing, "wow, this is how tyrannical, dictatorial governments are formed out of republics (such as Rome)". There is nothing irrational about saying, "wow, there are people who wouldn't think twice about stabbing me and taking my money, we should have a profession of people who can apprehend such people (police)."

Only when we see clearly
why it is for the way we act and think does the opportunity to change present itself. Only then will you know

the possibilities, that you can choose to live a life not motivated by fear, but a life motivated by everyday

compassion, awareness, and reverence for the life you live.

I agree.

Fear is a tremendous weight, it is a burden you can choose not to carry. Just put it down, and walk away.

Again: preparation is not paranoia, caution is not fear.

You may ask, what kind of life is that?
I can only speak from my own experience( more boasting...sorry )

Life's focus for me has changed from being about all the business of the world to being about

what's right here, right before me. To m, that is my family, my friends, and the people I work with.

Have you ever seen the 2002 adaptation of the film "The Count of Monte Cristo"? I find it is a great movie, and illustrates exactly what it is I am talking about:

The man, Edmond Dantes, has done nothing other than live content with is life, has a successful business career, and is loved by a childhood sweetheart. This being his only wrongdoing, his jealous childhood friend betrays him, frames him for a crime, and sticks him in a conspiracy that sends him to prison for years. Though events of the movie took a fortuitous turn, he could just as easily have rotted away in prison until death, his childhood sweetheart living the rest of her life believing the lies she'd been told.....

Being a good person does not make the rest of the world good. I'm sorry, but it just doesn't.

Taking everyday just as it comes. Taking that days moments one by one and living within them fully-
feeling all that is happening within them fully. Experiencing those moments like they are their own complete

lifetimes, each one as full of mystery and pleasure as the next. The time spent with my loved ones is fresh

and new with this perspective, there is no hurrying or thinking about something else, there is only what's

happening right then at that moment, and it is the most important thing in the world.

Even at work or around complete strangers, all are opportunities to practice living fully,

to show compassion, to give of yourself without expectation.

Focus on the NOW and see how your life changes. It did for me.

That's good. But I wonder through what circumstances would that carry you through?

Poverty? Depression? Grievous injury? Grievous injury to your loved ones? Your powerlessness as those "above" you in society do what they want with you and your loved ones?

Though I'm sure you might consider that fear mongering, I consider it awareness and preparation.

Turning off the tv does not mean that there are no longer those who would take advantage of blissful ignorance and apathy of those who just don't want to deal with such scary things because they don't want to fill their lives with fear.

Apech · December 14, 2010

I don't understand the poll - is the third option supposed to say 'wikileaks?' cos it says 'wikipedia'.

Sloppy Zhang · December 14, 2010

I don't understand the poll - is the third option supposed to say 'wikileaks?' cos it says 'wikipedia'.

I think it was supposed to be a joke.

Like, you don't know what wikileaks is, and the only thing you've heard of that sounds vaguely like that is "wikipedia", so you're wondering if that's what everyone is talking about....

Right? :blush:

strawdog65 · December 14, 2010

Hey Sloppy!

Dude... you are so thorough!

I am enjoying this discussion, thank you for participating.

I need to clarify that I think I am coming off as someone I'm not.

I do believe in corporal punishment for the offenders of our governmental

system. The constitution and all it stands for, is a masterpiece of governance.

I do not mean to sound so "dove" like. Because I am not. I do hold high standards

for my own conduct and treatment of others. This is because I find having a high

standard to be something that, even though I may not be able always attain, I like to

aim as high as I can. I guess it's a way of trying my best.

I am in agreement with most of what you said and commented.

I do choose to take issue with two things:

1:

The idea that a focus on what's simple and most important to me, my family and living

a full life, equates to ignorance because of my disgust for the slanted news media.

The news media, even not purposely watching tv, we are bombarded with constant news

related items. I would have to go live in a cave on a desert island to really get away from it!

So, even though I do not actively pursue watching TV, I am far from ignorant of what is

going on in the world. At the very worst...I'm just a little late getting up to speed.

And if something was to happen, such as world wide destruction... I'd be happy

right up to that last second before my eyeballs evaporated.

2:

The second idea being, that physicality is so frequently necessary to resolve conflict.

I do agree that it's nice having people who look out for others, physically when

there is no recourse, but a reliance on solving problems with force is unconscionable

to me, if there is an alternate and non-harmful path to be taken. Sloppy, you sound to

me like a natural protector of the people. Like a present day Shaolin monk, ever

prescient for wrong doings, and ready to handle things physically. Not a bad thing

when warranted, and the body does not react without the say so of the intellect.

I just favor more peaceful means of solving problems, more so now then when I

was a younger man. So I am content to chock it up to my softening with age!

Sloppy, thank you for your time and honesty!

Peace!

Edited December 14, 2010 by strawdog65

Brian · December 14, 2010

It gets worse everyday! Homeland Security Committee approves internet kill switch.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x9752990

There's a presidential directive in place (National Continuity Policy) that basically authorizes the President to unilaterally declare, on the basis of "any incident, regardless of location, that results in extraordinary levels of mass casualties, damage, or disruption severely affecting the U.S. population, infrastructure, environment, economy, or government functions", a state of emergency in which any "executive departments and agencies" as well as "State, local, territorial, and tribal governments, and private sector organizations" will fall under the coordination of the National Continuity Coordinator, appointed by the President and currently the Secretary of Homeland Security (I believe). This condition lasts until the government says otherwise.

Just food for thought...

Sloppy Zhang · December 14, 2010

Hey Sloppy!

Dude... you are so thorough!

I am enjoying this discussion, thank you for participating.

I need to clarify that I think I am coming off as someone I'm not.

I do believe in corporal punishment for the offenders of our governmental

system. The constitution and all it stands for, is a masterpiece of governance.

I do not mean to sound so "dove" like. Because I am not. I do hold high standards

for my own conduct and treatment of others. This is because I find having a high

standard to be something that, even though I may not be able always attain, I like to

aim as high as I can. I guess it's a way of trying my best.

I have enjoyed this conversation as well

I am in agreement with most of what you said and commented.
I do choose to take issue with two things:

1:

The idea that a focus on what's simple and most important to me, my family and living

a full life, equates to ignorance because of my disgust for the slanted news media.

The news media, even not purposely watching tv, we are bombarded with constant news

related items. I would have to go live in a cave on a dessert island to really get away from it!

So, event hough I do not actively pursue watching TV, I am far from ignorant of what is

going on in the world. At the very worst...I'm just a little late getting up to speed.

And if something was to happen, such as world wide destruction... I'd be happy

right up to that last second before my eyeballs evaporated.

Well that's very good to hear!

I do agree with you that every news resource is going to have a slant. Many things are not reported even in large, mainstream outlets, though, and even if you are bombarded with stuff everywhere else, you still might be ignorant about lots of things. But when I say "ignorant", I don't mean it as harshly as the word itself comes across- it's just a statement about what one does not know. Even "well informed" people who routinely cruise the news sites (ABC, NBC, CBS, CNN, CNBC and things like that), would still be ignorant of a lot of things!

It's hard to know what you don't know!

2:

The second idea being, that physicality is so frequently necessary to resolve conflict.

I do agree that it's nice having people who look out for others, physically when

there is no recourse, but a reliance on solving problems with force is unconscionable

to me, if there is an alternate and non-harmful path to be taken.

I agree that physical force should be avoided, because it has a nasty way of mucking things up for everyone involved. However, we do live in a physical world, and I like to keep physical concerns in mind.

Sloppy, you sound to
me like a natural protector of the people. Like a present day Shaolin monk, ever

prescient for wrong doings, and ready to handle things physically. Not a bad thing

when warranted, and the body does not react without the say so of the intellect.

:lol: I don't know about that, but I do appreciate the kind thought

I just favor more peaceful means of solving problems, more so now then when I
was a younger man. So I am content to chock it up to my softening with age!

I wouldn't say softening up. Fighting really does take up a lot of resources, and causes a lot of wounds (physical and mental and spiritual). It's just hard to tell that if you haven't gone through it yourself, and most people go through fighting in their younger days, so by their older days, they realize it's best to avoid that.

Sloppy, thank you for your time and honesty!

Peace!

Thanks for yours as well!

Everything · December 14, 2010

Hey, all! Didn't even see this topic untill now! Its great to see everyone being so passionate about this subject.

I my self cannot vote, because wikileaks kinda makes me sad. Went to school to learn about the history of propaganda and now I see media wars all over the world. So I try to avoid wikileaks, as I don't feel well the last few days.

Anyways! Have fun, everyone. :rolleyes:

Sloppy Zhang · December 14, 2010

Hey, all! Didn't even see this topic untill now! Its great to see everyone being so passionate about this subject.

I my self cannot vote, because wikileaks kinda makes me sad. Went to school to learn about the history of propaganda and now I see media wars all over the world. So I try to avoid wikileaks, as I don't feel well the last few days.

Anyways! Have fun, everyone.

Yeah, wikileaks and the media frenzy has been the focus of several of my classes on the same, or similar subjects.

Interesting (and sad) to see different mechanisms in action.

NeiChuan · December 14, 2010

I don't understand the poll - is the third option supposed to say 'wikileaks?' cos it says 'wikipedia'.

It's okay :lol:

I think it was supposed to be a joke.

Like, you don't know what wikileaks is, and the only thing you've heard of that sounds vaguely like that is "wikipedia", so you're wondering if that's what everyone is talking about....

Right?

Yea that was it Haha , eh I thought it was funny.

ralis · December 14, 2010

Assange is out on bail! I think the Swedish case is weak, given that one of the accusers is no longer cooperating with the authorities. Currently, the U.S. has convened a grand jury to put together an indictment on espionage charges. That may be a weak case, given the SCOTUS decision around the "Pentagon Papers."

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/12/14/julian-assange-bail-grant_n_796421.html

Edited December 14, 2010 by ralis

ralis · December 14, 2010

Assange is still locked up since the Swiss authorities appealed the bail bond. Very twisted!

Apech · December 14, 2010

Assange is still locked up since the Swiss authorities appealed the bail bond. Very twisted!

I think they have dropped the appeal.

Oh no - forget that.

Edited December 14, 2010 by Apech
wrong

Sloppy Zhang · December 14, 2010

The legal case in Sweden is just this back and forth deal, but I've been reading various people around the net saying that Assange/his lawyers might be giving this a lot of their attention, because the more things get mucked up with this case, the more trouble the U.S. would have to go through to get their hands on him (though Sweden on sex assault/rape vs. U.S. on espionage... who gets the prisoner?).

In any case, the legal dilemma facing Assange would be interesting, especially if he was tried for espionage. The Espionage Act is pretty broad. Nevertheless, there are still some general guidelines which cover it- Espionage Act

For example, in the section for "Gathering, Transmitting, or losing defense information", there is this bit:

Whoever, for the purpose of obtaining information respecting the national defense with intent or reason to believe that the information is to be used to the injury of the United States, or to the advantage of any foreign nation, goes upon, enters, flies over, or otherwise obtains information concerning any vessel, aircraft, work of defense, navy yard, naval station, submarine base, fueling station, fort, battery, torpedo station, dockyard, canal, railroad, arsenal, camp, factory, mine, telegraph, telephone, wireless, or signal station, building, office, research laboratory or station or other place connected with the national defense owned or constructed, or in progress of construction by the United States or under the control of the United States, or of any of its officers, departments, or agencies, or within the exclusive jurisdiction of the United States, or any place in which any vessel, aircraft, arms, munitions, or other materials or instruments for use in time of war are being made, prepared, repaired, stored, or are the subject of research or development, under any contract or agreement with the United States, or any department or agency thereof, or with any person on behalf of the United States, or otherwise on behalf of the United States, or any prohibited place so designated by the President by proclamation in time of war or in case of national emergency in which anything for the use of the Army, Navy, or Air Force is being prepared or constructed or stored, information as to which prohibited place the President has determined would be prejudicial to the national defense; or

Many sections of the Act include little phrases like this. It would be up to the U.S. to actually prove not only that he got the documents (which everyone pretty much knows), but that his intent was deliberately to cause harm to people.

So far as I know, it is shaping up pretty close to the aforementioned Pentagon Papers case. From what I know, a lot of the same issues that they brought up back then are being brought up now. And the Pentagon Papers were covered under the first Amendment. Not to mention the fact that, from the perspective of the Supreme Court, the government did not succeed in proving their case that the Pentagon Papers were causing enough harm for them to be censored.

And I haven't really seen anybody citing examples for the harm that wikileaks has caused. A lot of "hypotheticals", like "what if someone gets hurt because of the info?" and "what if other countries stop working with us?" and things like that. Nothing solid (at least nothing that would sway me if I were in court). So just from what I know, seems to be following the same kind of road....

In fact, here's what a senator said from the 1971 case (the senator supported the release of the pentagon papers):

Birch Bayh: “The existence of these documents, and the fact that they said one thing and the people were led to believe something else, is a reason we have a credibility gap today, the reason people don't believe the government. This is the same thing that's been going on over the last two-and-a-half years of this administration. There is a difference between what the President says and what the government actually does, and I have confidence that they are going to make the right decision, if they have all the facts.”

Sound familiar to anyone???

However, there's been a lot of misdirection/misrepresentation of the whole situation in the media these days. I don't know how the Pentagon Papers were covered in the media in their day, so I can't speak to that.

Edited December 14, 2010 by Sloppy Zhang

ralis · December 16, 2010

Turns out the Brits are the real culprits behind the arrest and denial of bail.

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2010/12/sweden-denies-efforts-keep-assange-jail/

Sunya · December 16, 2010

http://www.salon.com/news/opinion/glenn_greenwald/2010/12/14/manning/index.html

sean · December 16, 2010

http://www.salon.com/news/opinion/glenn_greenwald/2010/12/14/manning/index.html

ralis · December 16, 2010

Assange is out on bail. The only holdup is the bail providers need to visit the police station to fill out the necessary paperwork.

Apech · December 16, 2010

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-12005930

ralis · December 18, 2010

It appears that Wikileaks will expose Bank of America next.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x4664787

NeiChuan · December 18, 2010

Really hope Interpol doesn't stage a car crash or something like that.

Would be Royally annoying

Sloppy Zhang · December 18, 2010

Really hope Interpol doesn't stage a car crash or something like that.

Would be Royally annoying

They've already responded to threats (or insinuations) of the death of Julian Assange by putting together an "insurance" package, which his lawyer has described as a "thermonuclear device" for the information era, containing a bunch of files that has information wikileaks has not released, primarily because it contains information which could get some people (like spies) killed.

A super encrypted version of the file has been released and passed around, and in the event of Julian Assange's untimely death, the password will be released and the files will be out there and available.

At least that's what they say. Is it a bluff? Maybe. There are a lot of documents they have but have not released, so I'm sure there's something.

Taomeow · December 18, 2010

Doesn't the whole scenario remind you of anything?..

Let's see... How do the overlords go about taking away freedom? The cheapest way is to make it obvious to the public that freedom is dangerous and harmful and only serves the bad guys. Then the public will demand that the freedom be taken away.

How do they introduce tight internet censorship that's been in the pipeline for a while? Why by making it obvious to the public that freedom of information is dangerous and harmful and only serves the bad guys.

There were no leaks. Nothing of any consequence was revealed.

Assange is just another way to spell Osama.

rain · December 18, 2010

Doesn't the whole scenario remind you of anything?..

Let's see... How do the overlords go about taking away freedom? The cheapest way is to make it obvious to the public that freedom is dangerous and harmful and only serves the bad guys. Then the public will demand that the freedom be taken away.

How do they introduce tight internet censorship that's been in the pipeline for a while? Why by making it obvious to the public that freedom of information is dangerous and harmful and only serves the bad guys.

There were no leaks. Nothing of any consequence was revealed.

Assange is just another way to spell Osama.

Statement mirrroring my exact questions earlier in this thread. I wish we are wrong.

metal dog · December 19, 2010

Wikileaks and Assange.

Quite a media storm and controversy surrounding them these days.

It's being talked about everywhere...and everyone has an opinion.

Lot's of pertinent revelations spewing forth into public consciousness through the "whistleblower's receptacle" wikileaks.

And the "people's hero or villain", Assange, displayed for your approval or disapproval. Even with a little titillating sexual criminal bent to round out the tabloidesque intrigue.

Quite a show, quite an audience.

It doesn't matter to me if wikileaks is resulting in bad or good in regards to national security or creating a potential new arena for positive social change.

I don't believe that is the question to ask.

What is happening here is a cyber-war very much like the war on terrorism. Even with its own false flags and dis-info maneuverings.

The war on terror is resulting in colonialization of the middle east to dominate oil and the dominate countries which can be self-sufficient and strong enough without succumbing to the international banking system...or as is eloquently put "Muslim extremists" (Iraq).

The cyber-war related to wikileaks is a tool related to..."Financial Engineering". Which is based and run out of London.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Financial_engineering

Financial engineering is a multidisciplinary field relating to the creation of new financial instruments and strategies, typically exotic options and specialized interest rate derivatives. The field applies engineering methodologies to problems in finance, and employs financial theory and applied mathematics, as well as computation and the practice of programming; see computational finance. Financial engineering is also the process of creating new securities or processes, and designing new financial instruments, especially derivative securities. More importantly financial engineering is the process of employing mathematical, finance and computer modeling skills to make pricing, hedging, trading and portfolio management decisions. Utilizing various derivative securities and other methods, financial engineering aims to precisely control the financial risk that an entity takes on. Methods can be employed to take on unlimited risks under certain events,or completely eliminate other risks by utilizing combinations of derivative and other securities.

Such people, as overlords, who may be involved in this are far more intelligent and connected than we could ever possibly know. They may very well be pulling all the strings and wikileaks is dangling and doing the jig at the end of one of those strings.

http://143.53.36.235:8080/sjsacad.htm

D2 banking...

http://www.mi2g.com/cgi/mi2g/frameset.php?pageid=http%3A//www.mi2g.com/cgi/mi2g/d2banking.php

"Before the end of this decade every individual around the world will have the convenience and guaranteed security of one stop D2-Banking, which will become second nature to its customers as they enjoy the ability to store and access data and finances from anywhere at anytime without fear of being hacked or plagued by malicious software."

- DK Matai, Executive Chairman, mi2g

DK Matai is an engineer turned entrepreneur and philanthropist with a keen interest in the well being of global society. DK founded mi2g in 1995, the global risk specialists, in London, UK, whilst developing simulations for his PhD at Imperial College. DK helped found ATCA - The Asymmetric Threats Contingency Alliance - in 2001, a philanthropic expert initiative to address complex global challenges through Socratic dialogue and joint executive action to build a wisdom based global economy. ATCA addresses opportunities and threats arising from climate chaos, radical poverty, organised crime, extremism, informatics, nanotechnology, robotics, genetics, artificial intelligence and financial systems. ATCA has 5,000+ distinguished members from over 100 countries: including several from the House of Lords, House of Commons, EU Parliament, US Congress & Senate, G10's Senior Government officials and over 1,500 CEOs from financial institutions, scientific corporates, NGOs and 750+ Profs from academic centres of excellence.

Background - DK is a British subject, a Freeman of the City of London, a Liveryman of the Worshipful Company of Information Technologists, and a member of the Institute of Directors and The Institution of Engineering and Technology. He has worked formerly in the R&D labs of IBM, Inmos, ST Microelectronics and Helvar Electrosonic on Massive Parallel Processing and supercomputing applications. He enjoys meeting people, sharing thoughts, reading history and learning languages. He is vegetarian, teetotal and an optimist. He has lived in Asia, the Middle East, Europe and North America and he now lives with his family in Europe, with London as hub.

DK Matai claims that insurance and re-insurance are the DNA of capitalism which is only true if you are in the business of liquidating third-party assets using insider knowledge to arbitrage the result.

It is very likely that Assange is either a stooge or patsy now being hung out to dry by the higher-ups he was working for and who actually have a more secret and hidden agenda over what Assange could have ever possibly conceived. If Assange is in-the-know on this level then he will be released from these criminal charges and events only to continue in his present publicized position with wikileaks and wikileaks used as a tool for a much larger purpose. If he and wikileaks were truly a threat, then Assange and hackers would now be dead and their body's never found only listed as missing persons.

It is more involved and detailed than I have presented here but there is more, much more behind wikileaks and Assange. They are minor players with lots of media coverage...the real work has yet to be done or is being done behind the scenes.

What we are experiencing are the extremely sophisticated and complicated steps toward e-commerce, e-currency and a future cashless monetary system.

Compliments from the Corporation of London.

I raise my glass and toast...

...to the public good,

...to the good of the environment,

...to charity,

...to philanthropy,

...to the soundness of economics within a system that benefits all with equality,

...to truth,

...and to the hoodwinked public who never second guesses anyone's motives.

How is it that a team of five people has managed to release to the public more suppressed information, at that level, than the rest of the world press combined?
-Julian Assange

Yes...indeed...how is that?

Our goal is to have a just civilization. That is sort of a personal motivating goal. And the message is transparency. It is important not to confuse the message with the goal. Nonetheless we believe that it is an excellent message. Gaining justice with transparency. It is a good way of doing that, it is also a good way of not making too many mistakes. We have a trans-political ideology, it is not right it is not left it is about understanding. Before you can give any advice, any program about how to deal with the world, how to put the civil into civilization. How to gain influence on people. Before you can have that program, first you have to understand what is actually going on.... And therefore any program or recommendation, any political ideology that comes out of that misunderstanding will itself be a misunderstanding. So, we say, to some degree all political ideologies are currently bankrupt. Because they do not have the raw ingredient they need to address the world. The raw ingredient to understand what is actually happening.
-Julian Assange

"Transparency"...yes...indeed.

Who are the Crown Agents...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crown_Agents

Crown Agents describes itself as an invaluable aid to international development, having been a counter to corruption and inefficiency when in government, and now "it is promoting transparency and probity across the entire globe.

"Transparency"...yes...indeed.

The connections between the professed ideologies of the power-brokers of London and those of Assange and the purpose of wikileaks are closely allied in more ways than one and with quite a few less-known-to-the-public connections.

Wikileaks - Thoughts

41 members have voted

1. Thoughts on Wikileaks?

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