Should Politics be Disccussed ?

[Alfred E]

Tao is largely about the philosophy harmonous coexistance.

The above is my input.

Yours is ?

[dawei]

Tao is largely about the philosophy harmonous coexistance.

harmonous coexistence with what? --> Philosophy?

 

Is the DDJ about negative liberties or positive liberties? You can find evidence for both. Maybe it depends on what our political side is ?

[NeiChuan]

Tao is largely about the philosophy harmonous coexistance.

The above is my input.

Yours is ?

 

Yes and No.

 

If there's problems that have been made for selfish gain yes. Or perhaps there is a nice substitute for what is happening for the present.

 

Although.. If one can't refrain from political discussion without being emotionally involved in wordly affairs. Then I believe it's unhealthy, and not only does the person do damage to his/her health, but the info distributed.

[Alfred E]

harmonous coexistence with what? --> Philosophy?

 

Is the DDJ about negative liberties or positive liberties? You can find evidence for both. Maybe it depends on what our political side is ?

 

Philosophy is about the order of things - the order of things is about harmony - this is particularly true about society- take some time and read a little: http://www.wordiq.com/definition/Philosophy#Applied_philosophy

 

I wonder what your thinking is on "what is political sides ?"?

 

I can tell you that in Hong Kong, the phrase: 'going with the flow' has real meaning -particularly in Ya Ma tei - the most populated/sq meter place on earth.

AND that the philosophy of shopping malls all the way to crossing the streets is to become one with the chaos of the crowd.

 

In essence, the philosophy of Chaos is one word: cooperation.

[Gerard]

I don't care anymore, ordinary humans are nuts.

 

Keep practising the Way.

[Brian]

Philosophy is about the order of things - the order of things is about harmony - this is particularly true about society- take some time and read a little: http://www.wordiq.com/definition/Philosophy#Applied_philosophy

 

I wonder what your thinking is on "what is political sides ?"?

 

I can tell you that in Hong Kong, the phrase: 'going with the flow' has real meaning -particularly in Ya Ma tei - the most populated/sq meter place on earth.

AND that the philosophy of shopping malls all the way to crossing the streets is to become one with the chaos of the crowd.

 

In essence, the philosophy of Chaos is one word: cooperation.

 

To be pedantic, "philosophy" is "beloved wisdom" or "the love of wisdom". It has expanded to mean more things, including a structured system of learning or knowledge (see the TaoBums thread on knowledge vs. wisdom for more info). Harmony might be part of philosophy but philosophy does not equate to harmony. On the contrary, discordance is an essential component of philosophy as well. Consider harmony & discord to have a yin-yang relationship within philosophy and strive for a healthy & dynamic balance within your own thoughts & actions.

[Sloppy Zhang]

I am going to say the same thing I said when asked about whether sages of the past were martial artists- the tao, way of nature, universal energy, unending consciousness, WHATEVER way you want to put it, can be embodied in everything.

 

Talking about philosophy is nice. But philosophy is, in and of itself, rather abstract. "Empty your cup", "the tree that bends will not break", "go with the flow", "all is one". Those are nice philosophical statements. Though you could say they are pretty sterile. They are separated from the hubbub that is life. It's easy to stand a thousand miles away from the problem, and quote some philosophy.

 

The test is, when you're knee deep in a pile of shit, having your face beaten in by someone who wants to kill you, while the rest of the crowd laughs and insults you, can you say, "empty your cup", "the tree that bends will not break, "all is one," and "go with the flow"? How (if at all) does your philosophy hold up in day-to-day situations?

 

Street crowds is a good example. But why stop there? Why not talk about ALL aspects of life that can embody the tao?

 

In order to realistically and practically discuss the tao, I think that philosophy (theory) and living life (application) are important topics to discuss. Politics, as an area of life, is important. Can the tao manifest in politics? How does it do that? Are we at a point where it does? If not, how do we get to that point?

 

 

And as always, if you don't like a thread, you don't have to even open it.

[RyanO]

I don't care anymore, ordinary humans are nuts.

 

Keep practising the Way.

 

I tend to agree. Politics bothers me. But is being politically apathetic the best way to go?

 

Perhaps: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epicureanism

[joeblast]

I tend to agree. Politics bothers me. But is being politically apathetic the best way to go?

 

Perhaps: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epicureanism

Perhaps not, that approach is what got us to the current state of politics - only those that have cared have gotten in and influenced one way or another - and we wonder why the climate has devolved into hyperpartisanism!

[RyanO]

Perhaps not, that approach is what got us to the current state of politics - only those that have cared have gotten in and influenced one way or another - and we wonder why the climate has devolved into hyperpartisanism!

 

Yes it's unfortunate. It seems like those who care enough to manipulate their way to powerful positions in politics are precisely those who shouldn't have power!

[Sloppy Zhang]

I am not political in the sense that I don't follow fads, get caught up in partisan campaigns, put any stock in any smear campaign people run, and put even less stock in people who are all "goody two shoes, the real American golden guy/gal".

 

However, I DO care about the mechanisms for how my country is run, and how those mechanisms impact my life, the lives of those I know, the country as a whole, and the international scene. I try to keep up with how politics ACTUALLY happens, not with how people SAY that politics happens.

 

Find out who makes the decisions, how people get elected, what people and what positions are appointed, who is doing the appointing, who is funding projects, who owns what, who is connected with whom (in general, "follow the money"), things like that.

 

I do not think that information should be released that could jeopardize peoples' lives. But as it was pointed out to me, even that is not really a clear cut and defined goal. It's quite easily for someone to go on a mass killing spree just with the information you can find easily on facebook. Does that mean facebook should be removed (censored by some governing body) because it puts peoples lives in jeopardy?

 

I understand that some level of "secrecy" is had when negotiating, be it in politics, business, or even personal relationships. If person A, B, and C are trying to get something done, but person B doesn't like person C, person A might tell something only to person B to get everyone to go along with something, then turn around and tell person C something opposite. There are various levels of lying and deceit that are rather harmless but which occur all the time even in a day-to-day basis.

 

But those two above reasons (protecting lives and "it's an everyday thing") should NOT be used to cover up REAL crimes, REAL deceit, and REAL deliberately manipulative and exploitative actions.

 

And in a government when (in theory) the check to the government is the PEOPLE, well, the PEOPLE need to know, and hold their government accountable.

 

I may not be "political", but I do like to examine my government and hold them accountable.

[RyanO]

Nice insights Sloppy. I like your level-headed approach.

[strawdog65]

The truth behind politics is that we will never know why decisions

are made and who is actually in control of world governments.

 

Money knows no political party.

The desire to create more wealth for the relative few,

will always dictate what the status quo is for the rest of us.

A world-wide economy demands this.

 

Anyone thinking they will make real changes in government is foolish.

It is wasted effort to deeply invest one's self into political opinions.

Without ever knowing all the facts about what is the true underlying

nature of the world political agenda, it's all pointless.

 

Better to focus on what's right in front of you.

Live a simple uncomplicated life.

 

Regardless of what you believe... all things come to pass.

Good and bad are irrelevant, and we as individuals can only

endeavor to live the lives we have, as fully as possible.

 

Peace!

[pilot]

I come to taobums because it talks about the nature of reality, especially what it means to be human and how to help achieve our real potential. anything else is fundamentally irrelevant, external, and especially distracting.

 

daily life is one thing, but mixing basic things like breathing, enjoying a sunrise, finding some peace, etc. with politics, or anything else, is absurd.

 

who people are, and how they choose to carry out their daily life, including political affairs, is extraneous.

 

I am sure the internet has plenty of other forums on politics and world affairs, but few that attract so many experienced and knowledgeable people that discuss things to the point.

[Sloppy Zhang]

I come to taobums because it talks about the nature of reality, especially what it means to be human and how to help achieve our real potential. anything else is fundamentally irrelevant, external, and especially distracting.

 

daily life is one thing, but mixing basic things like breathing, enjoying a sunrise, finding some peace, etc. with politics, or anything else, is absurd.

 

who people are, and how they choose to carry out their daily life, including political affairs, is extraneous.

 

I am sure the internet has plenty of other forums on politics and world affairs, but few that attract so many experienced and knowledgeable people that discuss things to the point.

 

If a thread doesn't appeal to you, don't go in it.

 

If we can have four or five or six masturbation threads on the front page (has been that way at times), it won't kill us to have one or two politics threads in the first three.

 

I don't see that there is anything extraneous, irrelevant, or external in something that is supposedly ell encompassing, eternal, ever pervasive, and UNIFIED.

 

All is one.... except for politics, religion, economics, and anything else that isn't breathing or the sunrise???

 

Sorry, that just doesn't make sense (to me, anyway).

 

Again, if a thread doesn't appeal to you, don't go in it!

 

Thetaobums has always been a pretty catch all forum, and there's nothing wrong with that (in my opinion).

Edited December 9, 2010 by Sloppy Zhang

[dawei]

I wonder what your thinking is on "what is political sides ?"?

 

I can tell you that in Hong Kong, the phrase: 'going with the flow' has real meaning -particularly in Ya Ma tei - the most populated/sq meter place on earth.

AND that the philosophy of shopping malls all the way to crossing the streets is to become one with the chaos of the crowd.

 

In essence, the philosophy of Chaos is one word: cooperation.

In my ten trips to china, I would call it in one word: Patterns, to align to Chaos Theory.

 

Political side? It was a metaphor for the your title based on my saying "negative liberties or positive liberties".

 

You want to discuss a political philosophy but you only said, Tao is a philosophical harmonious coexistence and then appeal to Chaos Theory.

 

Tao is the natural process; or natural cycle or patterns. Call it harmonious but that is just the social context required by man. In nature, its just patterns being pursued by forces of nature. An earthquake is very harmonious to nature; but why is it considered devastation to man? Because we don't see it's 'pattern' within nature.

 

If you want to discuss the political nature of Lao Zi's message, I've yet to see you comment on how that is actually pursued.

 

I'll give you how I see the primary pattern in political china for social patterns leading to harmony:

Don't interfere and create obstacles (or artificialness) in people's lives. Let them pursue their lives, as close to an authentic self as possible (ie: same as patterns in nature).

 

This does not mean the government is to be some sort of quietism which some identify with the Dao. It needs to be active in it's pursuits of being 'less'. This is positive liberties.

 

I have said this to many people: Chinese experience more freedom than americans... it seems to defy all the western propaganda you read; but go there; see it for yourself... which you probably see.

Edited December 9, 2010 by dawei

[Alfred E]

In my ten trips to china, I would call it in one word: Patterns, to align to Chaos Theory.

 

I have said this to many people: Chinese experience more freedom than americans... it seems to defy all the western propaganda you read; but go there; see it for yourself... which you probably see.

In my more than 10 years in China I see that the Chinese do experience more freedom than do Americans simply because the family is seen for what it is and it is China.

[dawei]

In my more than 10 years in China I see that the Chinese do experience more freedom than do Americans simply because the family is seen for what it is and it is China.

你说的对极了 ！！！！

[pilot]

If a thread doesn't appeal to you, don't go in it.

I don't and I haven't. I am not calling for enforcing censorship against this or anything else. The freedom and self-moderation is actually great to see. I will write out my point more clearly: connecting practice/belief/philosophy X with political/sectarian group Y forms a relationship. my view (and not yours, but perhaps others on here) is that the practice/belief/philosophy is the only thing that matters, and it does not necessarily have to form a relationship with group Y. in fact, i believe such a relationship is detrimental to X. therefore, I have used the words extraneous, irrelevant, and external. please, disagree with my perspective, I too wish the world be a better place, but it will do so on its own terms when the time is right.

 

If we can have four or five or six masturbation threads on the front page (has been that way at times), it won't kill us to have one or two politics threads in the first three.

what sexual practices one decides to engage in falls under the personal practice category. I'm glad its part of the open discussion. but if they want to use that practice as some sort of political activism, I'm sure they can organize and discuss that elsewhere, and leave the core of the practice as a means in itself.

 

I don't see that there is anything extraneous, irrelevant, or external in something that is supposedly ell encompassing, eternal, ever pervasive, and UNIFIED.

Agreed. My perspective, however, has a point. What you practice for your own sake can remain at that level and be in of itself sufficient, and can be distinguished from others who do not share these views.

 

All is one.... except for politics, religion, economics, and anything else that isn't breathing or the sunrise???

I am saying there's a place for discussing practices, and a place for discussing politics and worldly affairs and involvement; what one does with their practice/philosophy is their own business, and they themselves are accountable, along with any group or movement they desire to raise, which I hope occurs off this website. but they can't turn around and claim, say, this act of kindness is what our movement stands for. no. the act of kindness just is, and occurs on its own.

 

Again, if a thread doesn't appeal to you, don't go in it!

Good advice. this topic appealed to me since I too tried to understand my strategy for approaching my discipline. I hope is more clear now.

 

Thetaobums has always been a pretty catch all forum, and there's nothing wrong with that (in my opinion).

I'm not denying the give and take between practice/experience/philosophy and the world, but that it is possible to discuss and focus on these without necessarily invoking third party attributes which would better fit another forum that is dedicated to that sort of thing in the first place.

[Alfred E]

你说的对极了 ！！！！

Mein Bak.

[Jetsun]

I get confused with all this going with the flow business, there are periods in history when the entire planet goes crazy and starts killing each other so to go with the flow is to participate, for example going with the flow in 1930's Germany meant becoming a fully fledged Nazi, so is going along with all this in line with the Tao the path of least resistance?