The purpose...

[Aaron]

I see the question periodically, sometimes frantic, sometimes quizzical, and sometimes just as a joke, is there a purpose to life?

 

As members of a secret society, at least by Western standards, you'd think we've have unequivocal answers to either aye or nay, but that's not so. What it seems most of us have, is more questions. Sometimes the questions boggle the mind and all we can do is think, "bloody hell, if there isn't a purpose, we're all screwed!"

 

Hmm... I spent the better part of four decades seeking a purpose, in God, in Church, in meditation, in my inner psyche, and in the end the best I could come up with was that if there was a purpose I couldn't figure it out. Then one day I woke up and I got it, the answer, and it was so simple it was like it was staring me in the face. Why couldn't I have figured it out sooner?

 

What is the purpose? Well before I tell you I need to remind you that purpose is subjective, so the purpose that I come up with might not be the same purpose that you come up with, that's one of the problems. So if someone does answer the question and does so in a way that leaves no doubt, then it better be a good answer, one that people can't argue with.

 

Well that's all fine and good, but people can argue about anything, even the price of butter, so how are you going to answer a question as important as purpose, not just any purpose, but "the purpose" without having anyone argue with you about it. Simple, by not arguing with them.

 

This is the trick, one I have yet to master, but can see that it works in the small bits that I have mastered. I have the option to argue with someone, to disagree with them. If I choose to disagree with them, then I have the option of how I can continue my conversation with them. Do I tell them they're an idiot and leave it at that? Do I smile knowingly at the foolish person who is unmistakably misguided? Or do I say, it really doesn't matter and let it go? I'm not going to tell you which one I choose, because I don't know how anyone is going to respond yet, when they respond you'll find out soon enough, rather I will tell you what "the purpose" is.

 

The purpose of life is simpler than anything I thought, as I said it stared me in the face, in fact I participated in it for years without knowing, I think at times it must have been laughing at me, perhaps smiling knowingly. So here it is, without any further ado, the purpose of life is to live.

 

Yes. I know you wanted more, so did I at first. It seems too plain, too ordinary, so much like everything else I hear and do through out the day, but it's more than just that, you're just not looking close enough.

 

We like to believe that we're trapped on this earth, really trapped. That our bodies are somehow holding us back from achieving something so much more magnificent than anything we've experienced so far, but we haven't always felt like that.

 

Remember being a child and feeling something soft, a kitten, a feather, or even a velor pillow, how much you really enjoyed that experience? What about the taste of ice cream? Your father ate his cone with a dour face perhaps, you looking at him, not really caring, because you knew that you had within your hands at least ten minutes of pure bliss. You were living, truly living, with a purpose that wasn't being defined, but rather experienced.

 

That is the problem, we don't see the purpose when it's still there, because somewhere along the lines we were slowly told that the purpose that we had wasn't the purpose that we should have, that enjoying the moment wasn't enough, we had to prepare for the possibility of the next moment. When we started to look at the next moment, the moment that we couldn't see, we slowly stopped seeing the moment that we were in, actually being there, living there. Yes we breathed and felt, and we tasted, even smelled, but we didn't live there anymore. At some point the present became a hindrance, and our bodies, those shells that we enjoyed for so long, were able to take so much pleasure in, suddenly became very alien to us, as if they were no longer us, but rather something that prevented us from living.

 

Our future became the prison that stopped us from living. The questions about the future, wealth, family, death, suddenly became more important than what was staring us in the face. People even tell us the answer, "stop and smell the roses." And yes we do, we really do, but it's never the same, because we're comparing those roses to roses we've already smelled and nothing seems to compare to that first rose, oh that glorious rose we can barely even remember, yet it's there.

 

Of course the future sometimes haunts us, because it reminds us of the past. That's the other side of the coin, the past influences our decisions about the future. Someone hurts us and we're afraid of being hurt again. We lose money in an investment and we worry about losing it again. The list goes on and on, but the simple fact is that we're tricked into worrying about the future, because we're reminded of the bad things from the past. We're never allowed the solace of really living in the moment.

 

My mission in life, my true mission is to live in the here and now. Not to worry about what happens tomorrow or even the next minute, but just to be able to stop and live in the present, to enjoy the taste of ice cream without comparing it to other ice creams. To spend time with my loved ones and appreciate that moment for what it is and not compare it to other moments I've had. I want to never say, "this was the best" of anything ever again, but rather allow the moments I experience to be everything they can be right then.

 

Anyways, I'm sure by now you're bored and disappointed. I tricked you and I admit I tricked you. I didn't give you the purpose for life, because the only thing I have the answer to is the purpose for my own life. You need to find the purpose in your own life. I can tell you that we are alive because we live. I'm just not sure if that's enough for most people. If it's not, I certainly hope you find a purpose, if you don't, then I certainly hope you can find that complete peace you feel when you can just stop and enjoy something for what it is.

 

Thanks for reading this far and I truly hope you find your purpose.

 

Aaron

Edited December 9, 2010 by Twinner

[Sloppy Zhang]

I prefer to ask: why does life need to have a purpose?

[Aaron]

I prefer to ask: why does life need to have a purpose?

 

Hmm... well I was hoping after you read what I wrote, you wouldn't care so much about either.

 

Aaron

[Sloppy Zhang]

Hmm... well I was hoping after you read what I wrote, you wouldn't care so much about either.

 

Aaron

 

I didn't give you the purpose for life, because the only thing I have the answer to is the purpose for my own life. You need to find the purpose in your own life. I can tell you that we are alive because we live. I'm just not sure if that's enough for most people. If it's not, I certainly hope you find a purpose, if you don't, then I certainly hope you can find that complete peace you feel when you can just stop and enjoy something for what it is.

 

Thanks for reading this far and I truly hope you find your purpose.

 

Aaron

 

I prefer to ask: why does life have to have a purpose?

 

Why do we feel the need to attach purpose to something?

 

What do we get by having a purpose? What do we lose by not having a purpose? What do we get by not having a purpose? What do we lose by having a purpose? Where is all that coming from?

Edited December 9, 2010 by Sloppy Zhang

[Vajrahridaya]

is there a purpose to life?

 

I will answer from the point of view of my interpretation of Mahayana Buddhism.

 

1. The purpose of life for a Buddhist is to realize the already liberated nature of everything.

 

2. The result being blissful awareness.

 

3. Then to liberate oneself from that.

 

4. As being liberated from clinging to self experience through recognition of the constancy of interconnected and formed flow leads to selfless service instead of absorption into a formless and transcendent state of being.

 

5. This results in self objectivity and constantly enlightened engagement with the world around you.

 

6. Then to hone and master the methods that lead to a constant state of recognizing change and impermanence for you for the sake of others.

 

7. Thus always expressing the same truth in different ways according to the needs of the now.

 

8. This is done for the sake of helping endless sentient beings to the same... "awake" (Buddha-ness).

 

From Wikipedia:

 

8 fold path...

 

1. Right view

2. Right intention

3. Right speech

4. Right action

5. Right livelihood - Ethical conduct

6. Right effort

7. Right mindfulness

8. Right concentration - meditation based upon right view

 

leads to...

 

9. Superior right knowledge

10. Superior right liberation

 

Thus of course, right expression reflective of liberation (which might or might not be conformed to conventional reality)

[ralis]

Is this a discussion about existentialism? Existential angst?

[Aaron]

I prefer to ask: why does life have to have a purpose?

 

Why do we feel the need to attach purpose to something?

 

What do we get by having a purpose? What do we lose by not having a purpose? What do we get by not having a purpose? What do we lose by having a purpose? Where is all that coming from?

 

You do realize you're asking, "What is the purpose?" You're just trying to be clever about it.

 

Aaron

[Aaron]

Is this a discussion about existentialism? Existential angst?

 

Hello Rallis,

 

Absolutely. I'm saying that one should accept things for what they are, that in the moment that exists right now there is the potential for joy or pain, but regardless of which you experience, you should be here in this moment. The future isn't here yet and the past is gone, so where else should you be? When you can live in this moment, then you can truly appreciate life for what it's intended to be.

 

Aaron

Edited December 9, 2010 by Twinner

[Aaron]

I will answer from the point of view of my interpretation of Mahayana Buddhism.

 

1. The purpose of life for a Buddhist is to realize the already liberated nature of everything.

 

2. The result being blissful awareness.

 

3. Then to liberate oneself from that.

 

4. As being liberated from clinging to self experience through recognition of the constancy of interconnected and formed flow leads to selfless service instead of absorption into a formless and transcendent state of being.

 

5. This results in self objectivity and constantly enlightened engagement with the world around you.

 

6. Then to hone and master the methods that lead to a constant state of recognizing change and impermanence for you for the sake of others.

 

7. Thus always expressing the same truth in different ways according to the needs of the now.

 

8. This is done for the sake of helping endless sentient beings to the same... "awake" (Buddha-ness).

 

From Wikipedia:

 

8 fold path...

 

1. Right view

2. Right intention

3. Right speech

4. Right action

5. Right livelihood - Ethical conduct

6. Right effort

7. Right mindfulness

8. Right concentration - meditation based upon right view

 

leads to...

 

9. Superior right knowledge

10. Superior right liberation

 

Thus of course, right expression reflective of liberation (which might or might not be conformed to conventional reality)

 

Honestly Vaj,

 

I'm at the point where, if you can't explain this to a five year old and get them to understand it, I really don't want anything to do with it.

 

Aaron

[Vajrahridaya]

Honestly Vaj,

 

I'm at the point where, if you can't explain this to a five year old and get them to understand it, I really don't want anything to do with it.

 

Aaron

 

Yeah, the Buddha said that a 7 year old could understand his teaching. I didn't word anything I said for any 7 year olds though, as I would think everyone here was educated enough to read and understand the gist of what I wrote.

 

Put a 5 year old in front of me and I can manifest the appropriate metaphors using references to toys and school kids, utilizing soft energy and speech, as well as engaging fun and possible laughter.

 

But, we are not in a playground, we are on a discussion board filled with adults who know how to read and type. So stop making excuses to not go deeper out of pride. All that I said is very simple.

.....

 

 

Realize the nature of things, including yourself as self liberated, and express from there, in every moment, in conjunction with every moment as a reflection of every moment perfectly and clearly recognized.

Edited December 9, 2010 by Vajrahridaya

[Vajrahridaya]

What do the Theists say? "God is in the details?" Well a Buddhist would say the same thing about Nirvana.

[gendao]

"We must discover the cause of our own ignorance." - Bruce Lee.

 

Underlying all your varied pain & desire is often a single life challenge. And once you find it, you may find how everything in your life was a result of or attempt to cope with it, in varied ways.

 

Now, if you dig down deep enough and are lucky enough to pinpoint YOUR root issue...and can successfully resolve it...then you will become an emotionally free man in this life. I daresay, even a HAPPY man...finding true happiness!

 

Ohh, and I am getting close now...on this dreadful lifelong quest!

 

But simply living is not going to accomplish this, and you will only continue to suffer...

Edited December 9, 2010 by vortex

[Vajrahridaya]

"We must discover the cause of our own ignorance." - Bruce Lee.

 

Underlying all your varied pain & desire is often a single life challenge. And once you find it, you may find how everything in your life was a result of or attempt to cope with it.

 

Now, if you dig down deep enough and are lucky enough to pinpoint YOUR challenge...and can successfully resolve it...then you will become an emotionally free man in this life. I daresay, even a HAPPY man...finding true happiness!

 

Ohh, I am getting close now...on this dreadful lifelong quest!

 

But simply living is not going to accomplish this, and you will only continue to suffer...

 

That's good! I'm taking this one home with me... as in to heart! Thanks Vortex!

 

P.S. made my eyes water... just thought you should know.

Edited December 9, 2010 by Vajrahridaya

[gendao]

That's good! I'm taking this one home with me... as in to heart! Thanks Vortex!

 

P.S. made my eyes water... just thought you should know.

Awesome my buddhy!!

 

In writing that, I remembered how I had asked what true "happiness" was at the age of 9. And how my world just fell into pieces after that. It's been succchh a long journey, but I feel like my circle is actually coming towards completion now. Just the other night, I believe I found my root challenge...and how it alone really has shaped my entire life.

 

This now puts me on the precipice of resolving it...and if so, finally attaining that true happiness that I had first sought out as an innocent child almost 30 years ago. A long, dark period filled with ongoing depression, withdrawal, frustration, anger & desperate seeking..

 

Just to find the root of my ignorance alone is already relieving - in that it makes sense of all the madness. But to cure it and finally find that happiness I first sought before this suckiness all began...would be so deeply & personally meaningful & fulfilling - a good definition of "happiness" itself! Which is exactly what I had asked and longed for this whole time..

 

I feel like my heart's a timebomb waiting to EXPLODE right now!

Edited December 9, 2010 by vortex

[Vajrahridaya]

Awesome my buddhy!!

 

I feel like my heart's a timebomb waiting to EXPLODE right now!

 

All that you said is fantastic! I have faith in you...

[Aaron]

Vaj,

 

The fact I never asked anyone the question about the purpose of life tells me most of you likely saw the length of the post and didn't bother to read it, instead you just spouted your own brand of religion... "Oh Yay! The Purpose of life? I already know that, don't need to read this! Insert basic Buddhist propaganda and presto. Saved myself three or four minutes of reading and no one is the wiser."

 

Why is everyone so gung ho to answer the posts, but not actually read what others have to say? It's like the only reason some people come here is to hear themselves talk.

 

Aaron

Edited December 9, 2010 by Twinner

[goonis38]

Aaron,

I think that was beautifully wrote. And I have thought something close to this before. This is kind of the same. I think it is good to stay "child like". And I believe this to be what you are saying...

 

I try to do this, and look at people and life through those eyes. Not the jaded ones that life will try and give you later in life. A child loves all, trust all, and thinks about people and things in the most simplest of ways. "beautiful" and I agree.

 

I have always said if life makes us hardened, we lose. And I'm not going to let it win.

 

Hugs... take care Melanie[/color][/size][/size]

[Vajrahridaya]

And the fact I never asked the question tells me you people most likely saw the length of the post and didn't bother to read it, instead you just spouted your own brand of religion... "Oh Yay! The Purpose of life? I already know that, don't need to read this! Insert basic Buddhist propaganda and presto. Saved myself three or four minutes of reading and no one is the wiser." *Rubs hands together with an evil laugh*

 

Aaron

 

Oh, I read it!

 

Eventually you're going to want something that is grounded and definitive, as well as transcendent and transparent. Something that will guide you as a deep lasting and evolving narrative.

 

If you see what I wrote as propaganda and don't get the meaning, or depth of it? Then what I said regarding pride still stands. If you see Buddhism as merely another religion, like Christianity? Then you're not ready for clarity.

 

What you said is true to a degree, because life is subjective. Purpose and intention are like things, empty of inherent substance and arise dependently. There really is no inherent purpose to life, and because of the different types of people, we have different manifestations that reflect the different goals and aims of all these different people, spiritual traditions, religions, etc. What the Buddha said covers all that, sees through it, and grants a gem of wisdom as something one can work with, forever. Because it recognizes that you will die, be reborn and if you don't have a grounded aim that recognizes endless inter-connectivity, endless transmigration of the individual mind stream, you will be floundering in ambiguity, the type of bliss that arises dependent upon ignorance rather than wisdom.

 

Buddhism also offers a peer support group stretching into endless dimensions that can help through so many metaphysical traps. The Buddha offered with his triple gem refuge vow (Buddha, Dharma, Sangha) clarity and support that lasts beyond the confusion of this life, while fully embracing what this life has to offer on the highest level of acceptance.

 

This is mostly written for the sake of writing it, like anything I write here. I'm not really trying to convert anyone, as everyone has their process, which is valid and true for them, as there is no universal truth, except that things, purposes and states of mind arise dependent upon causes and conditions of things, intentions and states of mind since beginningless time and forever after.

 

To deny something you don't truly understand, or have yet to delve into the depths of, is... not wise. I've delved into so many spiritual traditions over so many lifetimes, and understand where all these different interpretations lead to in an ultimate sense, thus I've exhausted all the possibilities of these different points of view, so I've come to the Sanatana Dharma (eternal way) of the Buddhas and will be sticking with it for the rest of eternity, because it grants me a purpose that lasts past any amount of deaths and rebirths.

 

I agree! Purpose is subjective and there really is no inherent purpose to anything, except to evolve. That's all there is, evolution, impermanence, going, doing, manifesting... infinite potential.

 

Once you realize the ever present peace, bliss and malleability of everything... what are you going to do with it? How are you going to channel that inspiration so that it truly lasts and has the conditions to support it's constant experiencing and sharing?

 

That is the purpose of the 8 fold path. It's far from propaganda, and far from "just another religion." Most of which end with a goal in a high heaven, or merging with a static state of formless being in an attempt to escape, or go beyond everything.

 

The Buddhist goal is constant re-experiencing in every moment the bliss of engaged activity and knowing the tools, both physical and metaphysical that manifest the conditions which support this constant re-experiencing in every moment!

Edited December 9, 2010 by Vajrahridaya

[Aaron]

Aaron,

I think that was beautifully wrote. And I have thought something close to this before. This is kind of the same. I think it is good to stay "child like". And I believe this to be what you are saying...

 

I try to do this, and look at people and life through those eyes. Not the jaded ones that life will try and give you later in life. A child loves all, trust all, and thinks about people and things in the most simplest of ways. "beautiful" and I agree.

 

I have always said if life makes us hardened, we lose. And I'm not going to let it win.

 

Hugs... take care Melanie[/color][/size][/size]

 

Thanks Melanie,

 

I'm glad you liked it.

 

Aaron

[Aaron]

Hello Vaj,

 

I'm not going to debate with you about Buddhism. I am only stating that for many people, myself included, not accepting Buddhism, has nothing to do with a lack of clarity, but rather we don't believe it to be true. You've made your post regarding this, please don't bring it here. I think it's been beaten over the head over and over. Also I stated with a great deal of clarity that purpose is subjective, your purpose isn't my purpose, so why do you feel the need to make it so? Let it go, be like Buddha, enjoy your pudding and quit beating yourself in the hopes of finding enlightenment.

 

Aaron

[Alfred E]

I see the question periodically, sometimes frantic, sometimes quizzical, and sometimes just as a joke, is there a purpose to life?

Aaron

 

Silly Question.

 

Try Evolution

 

in the puzzle

 

game

 

X

[Vajrahridaya]

Hello Vaj,

 

I'm not going to debate with you about Buddhism. I am only stating that for many people, myself included, not accepting Buddhism, has nothing to do with a lack of clarity, but rather we don't believe it to be true. You've made your post regarding this, please don't bring it here. I think it's been beaten over the head over and over. Also I stated with a great deal of clarity that purpose is subjective, your purpose isn't my purpose, so why do you feel the need to make it so? Let it go, be like Buddha, enjoy your pudding and quit beating yourself in the hopes of finding enlightenment.

 

Aaron

Like I wrote... I was writing for the sake of writing, because I was inspired to write! I enjoyed what I wrote as much as I enjoyed writing it. So... I guess I was merely writing for my own enjoyment? I guess you didn't really read either of my posts... so be it. I guess you saw the word Buddhism and you ran.

 

To quote from the gist of my previous post without the word Buddhism in it...

 

"This is mostly written for the sake of writing it, like anything I write here. I'm not really trying to convert anyone, as everyone has their process, which is valid and true for them, as there is no universal truth, except that things, purposes and states of mind arise dependent upon causes and conditions of things, intentions and states of mind since beginningless time and forever after.

 

I agree! Purpose is subjective and there really is no inherent purpose to anything, except to evolve. That's all there is, evolution, impermanence, going, doing, manifesting... infinite potential.

 

Once you realize the ever present peace, bliss and malleability of everything... what are you going to do with it? How are you going to channel that inspiration so that it truly lasts and has the conditions to support it's constant experiencing and sharing?"

Edited December 9, 2010 by Vajrahridaya

[Sloppy Zhang]

I prefer to ask: why does life have to have a purpose?

 

Why do we feel the need to attach purpose to something?

 

What do we get by having a purpose? What do we lose by not having a purpose? What do we get by not having a purpose? What do we lose by having a purpose? Where is all that coming from?

 

You do realize you're asking, "What is the purpose?" You're just trying to be clever about it.

 

Aaron

 

Vortex addresses some of the stuff I was hinting at with my response-

"We must discover the cause of our own ignorance." - Bruce Lee.

 

Underlying all your varied pain & desire is often a single life challenge. And once you find it, you may find how everything in your life was a result of or attempt to cope with it, in varied ways.

 

Now, if you dig down deep enough and are lucky enough to pinpoint YOUR root issue...and can successfully resolve it...then you will become an emotionally free man in this life. I daresay, even a HAPPY man...finding true happiness!

 

Ohh, and I am getting close now...on this dreadful lifelong quest!

 

But simply living is not going to accomplish this, and you will only continue to suffer...

 

In trying to cope with something, people often come up with a purpose. "I am suffering... why, there must be a purpose, I can't be suffering for no reason... I know, it must be my karma! That makes sense, I deserve it." or, "why can't I find true love? Maybe that's not God's plan for me, that must be it, I know, I'll go become a celibate monk."

 

Or maybe they kick around many different ideas, but realize, "oh wow, the purpose of life is to live! Yay! Just be present, enjoy the moment, no strings attached! Whoopee!" (not saying you necessarily say/think all of those things, but I for one have seen it happen in that way, and it's representative of a more general concept).

 

So I'm saying to ask yourself why you need a purpose- is it because you aren't happy? Is it because you don't have what you want out of life? Well what is it you want out of life? Why are you not getting it? Why are you trying to come up with a purpose? To make an excuse?

 

Do you gain an excuse by having a purpose? Do you lose the ability to make an excuse if you have a purpose, but don't fulfill it? Do you gain freedom by not having a purpose? Do you lose freedom by having a purpose? Who gives this purpose? Etc etc.

 

Vaj,

 

The fact I never asked anyone the question about the purpose of life tells me most of you likely saw the length of the post and didn't bother to read it, instead you just spouted your own brand of religion... "Oh Yay! The Purpose of life? I already know that, don't need to read this! Insert basic Buddhist propaganda and presto. Saved myself three or four minutes of reading and no one is the wiser."

 

Why is everyone so gung ho to answer the posts, but not actually read what others have to say? It's like the only reason some people come here is to hear themselves talk.

 

Aaron

 

I feel like some people freak out when they don't get answers in the form they expected...

 

Perhaps you should look more closely at what people have been writing, and look more closely at your preconceived notions, examine why you are feeling what you feel when reading posts that you think "don't fit", or are "not what you're talking about".

 

Maybe they are? Maybe these people really DO just want to hear themselves talk? Maybe you have done a poor job in conveying your meaning? Maybe you just don't want to hear anything which does not conform to your mental package of what a TTB response looks like?

Edited December 9, 2010 by Sloppy Zhang

[TzuJanLi]

Greetings..

 

HI Twinner: For many years i have found the following to be consistent and without valid contradiction, it is very similar to your conclusion..

 

The One became many (we/us/Life), so it could experience its own existence.. Experience is the purpose.

 

Be well..

[Aaron]

Well I tried. Obviously you're not ready for simplicity, it's all a bit too little to reconcile everything you've been told. I would however recommend rather than dismissing it, that you try it first. After all I'm not promising you enlightenment or an end to rebirth, rather simply a moment of true, unadulterated, joy. I'm sure Buddha wont send you to hell for that. Afterwards if you still feel the need to be enlightened, then go for it, nothing wrong with that.

 

Aaron