A WW2 1 hour Video on how China survived

[Alfred E]

The Battle of China (English) : History Documentation

 

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4719704121538289172#

[Alfred E]

The Battle of China (English) : History Documentation

 

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4719704121538289172#

 

Interesting - Videos get views but no replies.

[Sloppy Zhang]

I'm going to paraphrase a point someone made in another thread.....

 

Just because nobody comments doesn't mean people don't watch. What are we supposed to say, "nice video"? That's not a comment of substance.

 

The number of comments do not necessarily reflect the number of people who view the thread, nor does it reflect the quality of attention paid to the contents of said thread.

[Alfred E]

[ralis]

Then the "Cultural Revolution" happened under Mao and untold millions were slaughtered! For what purpose? As always, the psychotics wage genocide in the name of some higher cause!

[Alfred E]

Then the "Cultural Revolution" happened under Mao and untold millions were slaughtered! For what purpose? As always, the psychotics wage genocide in the name of some higher cause!

 

The reality of the Cultural Revolution of China can be seen through the actions following the Cultural Revolution as compared to other like events.

 

I think the results of this timeline of like events may interest you.

 

History:

1: Preceeding the cultural Revolution there was the McCarthyism of USA beginning in 1950 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McCarthyism.

 

2: The Cultural revolution of China 1965 to 1968 (McCarthism by a different name? http://www.historylearningsite.co.uk/cultural_revolution.htm )

 

3: Now think the following events of the Cultural Revolution listed at this webpage: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gang_of_Four

 

4: Who did China punish for the cultural revolution and when? Was Mao Tse Tung Punished or someone else? (The answer is in the timelne of events in the above, #4, website). If you ReaLLy want to see Mao Tse Tung - read what he wrote: archive/mao/works/red-book/

 

By the way - before the war - Mao was a librarian. He valued books. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mao_Zedong

 

5: This is where things get interesting.

During the Cultural Revolution and afterwards - Mao seemed to have developed a case of Alzheimers disease where he was mentaly incapicatated - only When President Richard Nixon went to China in 1972...Nixon's_visit_to_China to visit Mao - Mao's mental problem cleared up - for 2 weeks and then returned after Nixon left.

 

You will need to do some research, if you want more convincing, but the details are in the book listed on this webpage as written by Mao Tse Tung's personal Doctor: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Private_Life_of_Chairman_Mao

 

I've read the book and what I discovered was that one day after Mao died - his doctor (Had Air tickets in hand) flew from China to USA where he was rewarded highly with recognition for services. (The information is largely in the description of the Author - who was Mao's doctor)

 

A few years later - during the presidential term of Ronald Reagan - Ronald Reagan

developed the same disease... but it was kept hidden untill after he left office.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ronald_Reagan

[Sloppy Zhang]

The reality of the Cultural Revolution of China can be seen through the actions following the Cultural Revolution as compared to other like events.

 

I think the results of this timeline of like events may interest you.

 

History:

1: Preceeding the cultural Revolution there was the McCarthyism of USA beginning in 1950 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McCarthyism.

 

2: The Cultural revolution of China 1965 to 1968 (McCarthism by a different name? http://www.historylearningsite.co.uk/cultural_revolution.htm )

 

3: Now think the following events of the Cultural Revolution listed at this webpage: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gang_of_Four

 

4: Who did China punish for the cultural revolution and when? Was Mao Tse Tung Punished or someone else? (The answer is in the timelne of events in the above, #4, website). If you ReaLLy want to see Mao Tse Tung - read what he wrote: archive/mao/works/red-book/

 

By the way - before the war - Mao was a librarian. He valued books. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mao_Zedong

 

5: This is where things get interesting.

During the Cultural Revolution and afterwards - Mao seemed to have developed a case of Alzheimers disease where he was mentaly incapicatated - only When President Richard Nixon went to China in 1972...Nixon's_visit_to_China to visit Mao - Mao's mental problem cleared up - for 2 weeks and then returned after Nixon left.

 

You will need to do some research, if you want more convincing, but the details are in the book listed on this webpage as written by Mao Tse Tung's personal Doctor: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Private_Life_of_Chairman_Mao

 

I've read the book and what I discovered was that one day after Mao died - his doctor (Had Air tickets in hand) flew from China to USA where he was rewarded highly with recognition for services. (The information is largely in the description of the Author - who was Mao's doctor)

 

A few years later - during the presidential term of Ronald Reagan - Ronald Reagan

developed the same disease... but it was kept hidden untill after he left office.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ronald_Reagan

 

So.... what is it exactly that you are saying?

 

The cultural revolution isn't the fault of the Chinese? It's only the fault of a few Chinese? It's the fault of some evil foreign empire that was trying to harm the Chinese country from the inside?

[Alfred E]

So.... what is it exactly that you are saying?

 

The cultural revolution isn't the fault of the Chinese? It's only the fault of a few Chinese? It's the fault of some evil foreign empire that was trying to harm the Chinese country from the inside?

 

Dear Slappy,

As is Life - It is an IQ test.

Read the information and make your OWN decision.

[Sloppy Zhang]

Dear Slappy,

As is Life - It is an IQ test.

Read the information and make your OWN decision.

 

Well obviously everyone can make their own decision, but I would like to hear what YOUR decision is. You made the thread and supply the information, and you make some rather interesting points in various threads, and I would like to know where you're coming from. If all I have is the opinions, biases, and prejudices I bring to the topic, then I'm never going to understand the points you make in the way you see them.

 

So I'd like to hear from you something like a thesis statement, central opinion, abstract, or whatever other term you'd like to use for "central position" from which you post during this (and a few other) discussions.

 

This would further my own understanding, and help smooth out discussion. Because before I take up a discussion with someone, I like to actually know what it is they are saying. Keyword being, "what it is they are saying". Not what I'm saying. Not what media says. Not what a textbook says. Not what wiki says. What it is the other person is saying.

 

And in this case, that means you

Edited December 10, 2010 by Sloppy Zhang

[Guest tao4joe]

The Battle of China (English) : History Documentation

 

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4719704121538289172#

Awesome video, i want to find more. thanks dude.

[ralis]

Well obviously everyone can make their own decision, but I would like to hear what YOUR decision is. You made the thread and supply the information, and you make some rather interesting points in various threads, and I would like to know where you're coming from. If all I have is the opinions, biases, and prejudices I bring to the topic, then I'm never going to understand the points you make in the way you see them.

 

So I'd like to hear from you something like a thesis statement, central opinion, abstract, or whatever other term you'd like to use for "central position" from which you post during this (and a few other) discussions.

 

This would further my own understanding, and help smooth out discussion. Because before I take up a discussion with someone, I like to actually know what it is they are saying. Keyword being, "what it is they are saying". Not what I'm saying. Not what media says. Not what a textbook says. Not what wiki says. What it is the other person is saying.

 

And in this case, that means you

 

 

He comes off as an apologist for the "Cultural Revolution". The estimates are upwards of 60 million dead since the beginning till the present. How can anyone condone this!

[Aaron]

I'm not up on all of the conspiracy stuff these days. It doesn't seem useful to worry about what might have happened, I try to spend my time thinking about what is happening.

 

In regards to that, rather than trumpet the "Chinese Holocaust" or allude that the American government caused it (i.e. we drugged Mao via his Doctor then drugged Reagan for God only knows what reason), why don't you worry about Darfur or something relevant to the here and now.

 

Aaron

[Sloppy Zhang]

I'm not up on all of the conspiracy stuff these days. It doesn't seem useful to worry about what might have happened, I try to spend my time thinking about what is happening.

 

In regards to that, rather than trumpet the "Chinese Holocaust" or allude that the American government caused it (i.e. we drugged Mao via his Doctor then drugged Reagan for God only knows what reason), why don't you worry about Darfur or something relevant to the here and now.

 

Aaron

 

Understanding history is a great way to understand the present.

 

Many present day problems are the direct repercussions of past events, and many present "new ideas" for how to fix solutions are, in fact, not new at all- they have been done in the past by various peoples, and their outcome is quite obvious.

 

Yet people continue making the same decisions.

 

"Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results."

-Albert Einstein

[Aaron]

Understanding history is a great way to understand the present.

 

Many present day problems are the direct repercussions of past events, and many present "new ideas" for how to fix solutions are, in fact, not new at all- they have been done in the past by various peoples, and their outcome is quite obvious.

 

Yet people continue making the same decisions.

 

"Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results."

-Albert Einstein

 

I agree Sloppy,

 

But there's a distinct difference between paranoia and truth. If someone came up on the street and told me this stuff, I'd probably think they were crazy. It's the whole idea that the truth can't be that simple, that something can't just happen, there has to be a reason that makes sense to us, when the fact is most of the time very little seems to make sense. Accept the things you cannot change.

 

There's this saying that I paraphrase. I will strive to find serenity, so that I can accept those things I cannot change, change the things I can, and through wisdom know the difference. Every once in awhile I am able to do this and when it happens, life becomes much simpler and those things that I used to worry about, the conspiracies that seemed to occupy my time, simply fade away like so much dust.

 

My preference these days is to try to develop compassion, humility, and insight, and through them a deeper relationship with the world around me.

 

Aaron

 

When I suffer you suffer.

Edited December 11, 2010 by Twinner

[Alfred E]

He comes off as an apologist for the "Cultural Revolution". The estimates are upwards of 60 million dead since the beginning till the present. How can anyone condone this!

 

ralis, If you are pointing to the information I posted - I did it in such a way that you can see that the information did not come from me but rather from documented history.

 

The Gang of Four that was executed by the Chinese Government (actually the Chinese government does not exicute but rather the family of the criminal must buy the bullet(s) that do the work) Included Mao Tse Tung's wife who was seen as one of the main conspirators that formed the Cultural Revolution of China.

Furthermore: The courts did not execute her untill after Mao had died, from natural causes, so as to not expose Mao to the emotional torture.

 

Here is the building where China has Mao's body entoumbed with the Chinese flag over his body. I have been there and seen the, more than 2 miles long, line of Chinese that forms 'Daily' beginning at 3 AM to pay respects to Mao Tse Tung.

http://architecture.about.com/od/asiasouthasia/ig/Ancient-Beijing/Mao-Tse-tung-Mausoleum.htm

 

One last point - as a scientist, I do not follow the 'Belief' system which is why I went to a fair amount of research to document/outsource my claims.

If any of you want the same respect that I recieve from my writing/documentation style -I suggest that you do the same - from reputable sources.

 

Which I strongly doubt that you will be able to do.

 

This will take this conversation out of the Argumentative level that it currently is in - into the form of an Educated Debate.

Edited December 11, 2010 by Alfred E

[Alfred E]

I agree Sloppy,

 

But there's a distinct difference between paranoia and truth. If someone came up on the street and told me this stuff, I'd probably think they were crazy. It's the whole idea that the truth can't be that simple, that something can't just happen, there has to be a reason that makes sense to us, when the fact is most of the time very little seems to make sense. Accept the things you cannot change.

 

There's this saying that I paraphrase. I will strive to find serenity, so that I can accept those things I cannot change, change the things I can, and through wisdom know the difference. Every once in awhile I am able to do this and when it happens, life becomes much simpler and those things that I used to worry about, the conspiracies that seemed to occupy my time, simply fade away like so much dust.

 

My preference these days is to try to develop compassion, humility, and insight, and through them a deeper relationship with the world around me.

 

Aaron

 

When I suffer you suffer.

Is this turning into some sort of psychotic-freakish web revenge ? Is Twinner Mal ?

Why has the 'Name History' been disabled in profiles ?

Edited December 11, 2010 by Alfred E

[johndoe2012]

Conspiracies only exist in the mind. They are a waste of time IMHO when you could do something more useful.

 

All conspiracies share the same pattern: "official history is written like this, but did you know that this or that happened, and the government / etc. is denying it, and how do you explain the following: Apollo mission, 9/11, bla bla."

[ralis]

History:

1: Preceeding the cultural Revolution there was the McCarthyism of USA beginning in 1950 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McCarthyism.

 

2: The Cultural revolution of China 1965 to 1968 (McCarthism by a different name? http://www.historylearningsite.co.uk/cultural_revolution.htm )

 

 

 

You are comparing McCarthyism to Maoism? Complete nonsense! During the McCarthy era, people were not executed en masse for their beliefs. Under Mao they were! Here is a link for the estimated murders of Chinese during the "Cultural Revolution". Scroll down to #7.

 

 

http://users.erols.com/mwhite28/warstat1.htm

Edited December 11, 2010 by ralis

[Sloppy Zhang]

I agree Sloppy,

 

But there's a distinct difference between paranoia and truth. If someone came up on the street and told me this stuff, I'd probably think they were crazy. It's the whole idea that the truth can't be that simple, that something can't just happen, there has to be a reason that makes sense to us, when the fact is most of the time very little seems to make sense. Accept the things you cannot change.

 

There's this saying that I paraphrase. I will strive to find serenity, so that I can accept those things I cannot change, change the things I can, and through wisdom know the difference. Every once in awhile I am able to do this and when it happens, life becomes much simpler and those things that I used to worry about, the conspiracies that seemed to occupy my time, simply fade away like so much dust.

 

My preference these days is to try to develop compassion, humility, and insight, and through them a deeper relationship with the world around me.

 

Aaron

 

When I suffer you suffer.

 

 

Conspiracies only exist in the mind. They are a waste of time IMHO when you could do something more useful.

 

All conspiracies share the same pattern: "official history is written like this, but did you know that this or that happened, and the government / etc. is denying it, and how do you explain the following: Apollo mission, 9/11, bla bla."

 

That the word "conspiracy" has even been brought up (and I knew it would, as it always does) means that there is already a bias AGAINST different sources of information.

 

Why do conflicting sources of information and accounts of history automatically mean "conspiracy"? The word has so many unsavory connotations in this society, that I prefer never to use it, and it's sad when it comes up, because it means that free discussion is already moving downhill. "Well it's a conspiracy so what am I supposed to say to that?"

 

How about we just stick to facts (or as close to possible as the facts). Saying, "well I can't change it" does not excuse the acts, nor does it make them go away, nor does it in any way help- in fact, it could lead to worse as those perpetrating the acts can do so without consequence.

 

If there are facts behind those that are popularly spread, they should be known, investigated, acknowledged, and acted upon.

 

Why would you think they were crazy if someone came up to you and presented something that challenged your own embedded view of history? Because it's a tough pill to swallow? How about we all listen to the point, and see if the facts make sense.

 

I'm willing to listen to Alfred E. as long as he puts up the facts and can put them together coherently. However, so far I've seen a lot of different historical accounts, but I don't know how he is choosing to string them together. If his story makes sense, I'll consider it. But so far I have no idea where he's going. Sure, I can infer something from my own thoughts, but that would just be me generating an opinion, then arguing about it. I'd rather hear his opinion in his own words.

Edited December 11, 2010 by Sloppy Zhang

[ralis]

That the word "conspiracy" has even been brought up (and I knew it would, as it always does) means that there is already a bias AGAINST different sources of information.

 

Why do conflicting sources of information and accounts of history automatically mean "conspiracy"? The word has so many unsavory connotations in this society, that I prefer never to use it, and it's sad when it comes up, because it means that free discussion is already moving downhill. "Well it's a conspiracy so what am I supposed to say to that?"

 

How about we just stick to facts (or as close to possible as the facts). Saying, "well I can't change it" does not excuse the acts, nor does it make them go away, nor does it in any way help- in fact, it could lead to worse as those perpetrating the acts can do so without consequence.

 

If there are facts behind those that are popularly spread, they should be known, investigated, acknowledged, and acted upon.

 

Why would you think they were crazy if someone came up to you and presented something that challenged your own embedded view of history? Because it's a tough pill to swallow? How about we all listen to the point, and see if the facts make sense.

 

I'm willing to listen to Alfred E. as long as he puts up the facts and can put them together coherently. However, so far I've seen a lot of different historical accounts, but I don't know how he is choosing to string them together. If his story makes sense, I'll consider it. But so far I have no idea where he's going. Sure, I can infer something from my own thoughts, but that would just be me generating an opinion, then arguing about it. I'd rather hear his opinion in his own words.

 

 

I am uncertain as to what his point is.

[Alfred E]

You are comparing McCarthyism to Maoism? Complete nonsense! During the McCarthy era, people were not executed en masse for their beliefs. Under Mao they were! Here is a link for the estimated murders of Chinese during the "Cultural Revolution". Scroll down to #7.

 

 

http://users.erols.com/mwhite28/warstat1.htm

 

I'm comparing McCarthyism to the Cultural Revolution.

As far as being nonbiased about "Mao Zedong's regime" - remember the part where Mao was kept in a drugged state by his doctor and wife.

 

Why was The wife executed for the crimes, along with 3 others and Mao enshrined for eternity in a very-very large building at Tieneman square with the flag of China draped over his coffin - from his death in 1975 untill today???

 

Try to remember that I have been living in China and studying Chinese culture, philosophy and history for close to 15 years. My girlfriend for those 15 years has a Masters degree in the Philosophy of education with Distinction in Chinese history from Chinese University in Hong Kong and teaches, in English, form 7 (the equivalent of 2nd year university in USA) to graduating students that are accepted to Universities of their choice -anywhere in the world... By the way - Hong Kong schools are rated consistantly in the top 5% in the world.

 

Your website is about as clear as mud. What is the point? Are you saying that the Chinese went door to door slashing their neighbors for fun ???

Simply put - these figures do not agree with anything I've seen in Chinese textbooks or textbooks in the USA.

 

What your # 7 says is:

"People's Republic of China, Mao Zedong's regime (1949-1975): 40 000 000 [make link]

◦Agence France Press (25 Sept. 1999) citing at length from Courtois, Stephane, Le Livre Noir du Communism:

■Rural purges, 1946-49: 2-5M deaths

■Urban purges, 1950-57: 1M

■Great Leap Forward: 20-43M

■Cultural Revolution: 2-7M

■Labor Camps: 20M

■Tibet: 0.6-1.2M

■TOTAL: 44.5 to 72M"

 

After thinking about it - it does seem as if you are trying to hijack a topic which was the video I posted.

Edited December 11, 2010 by Alfred E

[Mal]

Is Twinner Mal ?

 

Nope not me.

 

Why has the 'Name History' been disabled in profiles ?

 

It hasn't been disabled.

[Alfred E]

Nope not me.

It hasn't been disabled.

Yes, I've msg'd with the moderator and they straightened me out on the confusion.

It seems that some people's name history was able to be displayed whereas other's were not.

It was mostly in the timings.

Edited December 13, 2010 by Alfred E