fiveelementtao Posted December 11, 2010 3. Real fighting, and real internal martial arts for that matter, have nothing to do with dim mak, empty force, and all those types of tricks In your opinion, possibly in your experience. My personal experience says otherwise. 4. No fighter, or martial art technique, is invincible exactly my point from the beginning. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest sykkelpump Posted December 11, 2010 (edited) What is your point? I never called it a system... what perceived threat are you trying to defend against here? I have said repeatedly that MMA is very effective... My only point is that it is not invincible. What does that have to do with whether or not MMA is or is not a system? Again my only point was that I do not believe the blanket statement that a BJJr will beat a striker "every time." What about that statement specifically do you want to argue with me about? Since you ask me what my point is.The point is that an internal martial artist will be beaten up like a clown every time against a good mma fighter.Actually,I belive ima will lose most normal streetfights also,because the belive in skills that are useless in real combat.Got it? I really would like the chance to personally have an demo fight with an ima. Edited December 11, 2010 by sykkelpump Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
fiveelementtao Posted December 11, 2010 (edited) Since you ask me what my point is.The point is that an internal martial artist will be beaten up like a clown every time against a good mma fighter.Actually,I belive ima will lose most normal streetfights also,because the belive in skills that are useless in real combat.Got it? I really would like the chance to personally have an demo fight with an ima. In most cases, I believe you are absolutely correct. IMO and IME there are very few well trained internal martial artists. Can I pick the IMA fighter for you? Edited December 11, 2010 by fiveelementtao Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Immortal4life Posted December 11, 2010 (edited) I mean no offense, and no ill will. My experience is that when an alleged internal martial artist talks about empty force, lama thunderbolts, Ki blasts, and dim mak, it is just someone who never got the real fighting skills, meaning striking, grappling, schuai chiao, qinna, etc. but they want to act like they are knowledgable or are teachers, so they obscure and confuse people about what internal martial arts are and how they are applied. A lot of real internal martial artists have a big problem with people who promote empty force and dim mak, and have been willing to step up and show that empty force is not effective fighting, or even real. Edited December 11, 2010 by Immortal4life Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Trunk Posted December 11, 2010 This is just beautiful. Watching it a number of times over, first following how Gracie moves, then focusing on what it did to his opponent's structure. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YZ2NHIFTqxE Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sloppy Zhang Posted December 11, 2010 Since you ask me what my point is.The point is that an internal martial artist will be beaten up like a clown every time against a good mma fighter.Actually,I belive ima will lose most normal streetfights also,because the belive in skills that are useless in real combat.Got it? I really would like the chance to personally have an demo fight with an ima. In most cases, I believe you are absolutely correct. IMO and IME there are very few well trained internal martial artists. Can I pick the IMA fighter for you? Who would you recommend, then, for such a match? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
fiveelementtao Posted December 11, 2010 I mean no offense, and no ill will. My experience is that when an alleged internal martial artist talks about empty force, lama thunderbolts, Ki blasts, and dim mak, it is just someone who never got the real fighting skills, meaning striking, grappling, schuai chiao, qinna, etc. but they want to act like they are knowledgable or are teachers, so they obscure and confuse people about what internal martial arts are and how they are applied. I completely agree. If someone wants to experience real internal martial arts, the best place to look is for the "village styles." that haven't become commercialized yet. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
fiveelementtao Posted December 11, 2010 (edited) Who would you recommend, then, for such a match? Y'know... I don;t like where I have taken this thread... My apologies. I should have known better. Edited December 12, 2010 by fiveelementtao Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sloppy Zhang Posted December 12, 2010 (edited) Y'know... I don;t like where I have taken this thread... My apologies. I should have known better. Y'know.... that doesn't help your case, nor does it help out anyone who is looking for legitimate styles that can do what you (and others) say they can do. Especially with people like running around... I'm not trying to be a dick or goad you into some kind of confrontation... this is an honest question. There are a ton of IMAists who are full of FAIL. As a practitioner of something real, who is a real person you would recommend? If someone was looking to find a REAL practitioner/instructor, who would you recommend? Edited December 12, 2010 by Sloppy Zhang Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest sykkelpump Posted December 12, 2010 Who would you recommend, then, for such a match? You and me both know that you cant set up a fight for me,But yes I would absolutly give it a try with your pick.I dont belive in ima.And since I am over average and have done boxing judo and kickboxing for many many years and now mma .I dont see why not.Alot of people want to test theese people but they are the ones with exuses. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest sykkelpump Posted December 12, 2010 iS THIS ONE OF YOUR PICK? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sloppy Zhang Posted December 12, 2010 iS THIS ONE OF YOUR PICK? Hey, I already posted that! Find Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
fiveelementtao Posted December 12, 2010 Y'know.... that doesn't help your case, nor does it help out anyone who is looking for legitimate styles that can do what you (and others) say they can do. Especially with people like running around... I don't know why people have associated me with empty force stuff. I don't do that. I have never seen any of that stuff work either. I practice a very practical striking martial art. Listen... Qi work is an integral part of all truly authentic Chinese styles. Some are good, some are bad and within each system, there are good practitioners and bad practioners. any fithting style is only as good as the person using and combined with their commitment. Sloppy, I assume you are saying that there are people looking for a real Internal Art. There is a difference between the commercialized martial arts and the hidden stuff out there. IME, the real masters won't try and prove themselves in public and will rarely teach anyone the real thing. But, if you are saying this because you are honestly looking for a real effective internal art, then my suggestion is to make to committment to look earnestly for it. That may mean years of traveling and searching. Unlike commercialized MA's it will not come looking for you. When and if you find the real thing, you will know why it is not very well known. BUt, if you make to commitment to search it out and find it, you will. If however, like many Westerners, who want things handed to them, they will have to be satisfied with pay per view octagon... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest sykkelpump Posted December 12, 2010 Hey, I already posted that! Find lol,ok I didnt know.But that was the only ima artist I found who was willing to fight. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
fiveelementtao Posted December 12, 2010 You and me both know that you cant set up a fight for me,But yes I would absolutly give it a try with your pick.I dont belive in ima.And since I am over average and have done boxing judo and kickboxing for many many years and now mma .I dont see why not.Alot of people want to test theese people but they are the ones with exuses. OK sykkel if you are serious... Go to chinatown in Honolulu and spend some time looking for the Martial arts clubs (not the big schools) Ask around for the traditional chinese martial arts. And be prepared that they will not be easy to find. Go to these guys and ask for a lesson. The idea of wanting to prove oneself in public is a western concept. The chinese concept is very different. The real masters won't come looking for you, you have to go looking for them.... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest sykkelpump Posted December 12, 2010 OK sykkel if you are serious... Go to chinatown in Honolulu and spend some time looking for the Martial arts clubs (not the big schools) Ask around for the traditional chinese martial arts. And be prepared that they will not be easy to find. Go to these guys and ask for a lesson. The idea of wanting to prove oneself in public is a western concept. The chinese concept is very different. The real masters won't come looking for you, you have to go looking for them.... Its not my mission in life to make a fight like this so I certainly wont spend any money tracking theese guys dow.Funny you did want to send me to china when you yourself already have embaressd some mma guys with your 5% chi power Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Immortal4life Posted December 12, 2010 (edited) lol,ok I didnt know.But that was the only ima artist I found who was willing to fight. Those were not "ima artists". Those were practitioners of.... I dont even know what. Either some sort of Japanese kiai practice like its labelled as, or perhaps just people with cult followings who made things up. IMA generally refers to the chinese fighting arts of Taijiquan, Xingyiquan, and Baguazhang. Edited December 12, 2010 by Immortal4life Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest sykkelpump Posted December 12, 2010 Those were not "ima artists". Those were practitioners of.... I dont even know what. Either some sort of Japanese kiai practice like its labelled as, or perhaps just people with cult followings who made things up. IMA generally refers to the chinese fighting arts of Taijiquan, Xingyiquan, and Baguazhang. It was not IMA? Dont get hang up in the youtube text,what was he doing in the start of the video when he was throving people around without touching them? The guy who posted the video just called it what he thoght it was I guess Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Immortal4life Posted December 12, 2010 No it was not IMA, meaning Internal Martial Arts, and IMA does not do no touch stuff. All we can really go by is the video label, which says it is just "Kiai". That is a japanese term, not a chinese one. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest sykkelpump Posted December 12, 2010 No it was not IMA, meaning Internal Martial Arts, and IMA does not do no touch stuff. All we can really go by is the video label, which says it is just "Kiai". That is a japanese term, not a chinese one. The guy who posted it didnt have clue of kiai,chi or whatever.You really dont think it was the Kiai master himself who posted it do you So if empty force is not internal then what is it? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
fiveelementtao Posted December 12, 2010 Its not my mission in life to make a fight like this so I certainly wont spend any money tracking theese guys dow.Funny you did want to send me to china when you yourself already have embaressd some mma guys with your 5% chi power Oh... I didn't realize that this whole time you wanted to fight me. LOL I misunderstood you... No thanks, I have had my share of challenges. I'm too old for that now... I was under the impression you truly wanted to know if IMA's existed or not. If that were the case, then I am telling you that no IMA masters will answer any "Demo Match" challenge nonsense. Now, that may prove to you that they don't exist. That may be because according to your values, anyone who doesn't answer to public challenge matches must be a coward. This is western thinking. Chinese thinking is different. If you are truly serious and want to see if they exist, I told you exactly how to find them. If you choose not to do that, then I can only assume that you are not serious or are you are a typical westerner who feels such a sense of entitlement that you expect everything to come to you according to your terms... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest sykkelpump Posted December 12, 2010 No it was not IMA, meaning Internal Martial Arts, and IMA does not do no touch stuff. All we can really go by is the video label, which says it is just "Kiai". That is a japanese term, not a chinese one. The guy who posted it didnt have clue of kiai,chi or whatever.You really dont think it was the Kiai master himself who posted it do you So if empty force is not internal then what is it? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest sykkelpump Posted December 12, 2010 No it was not IMA, meaning Internal Martial Arts, and IMA does not do no touch stuff. All we can really go by is the video label, which says it is just "Kiai". That is a japanese term, not a chinese one. The guy who posted it didnt have clue of kiai,chi or whatever.You really dont think it was the Kiai master himself who posted it do you So if empty force is not internal then what is it? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest sykkelpump Posted December 12, 2010 No it was not IMA, meaning Internal Martial Arts, and IMA does not do no touch stuff. All we can really go by is the video label, which says it is just "Kiai". That is a japanese term, not a chinese one. All we can really go by is the video label you say? ok,but then you continue to say it is not internal?forgot the label suddenly? So if empty force is not internal then what is it? The guy who posted it didnt have clue of kiai,chi.japanese or chinese or whatever.You really dont think it was the Kiai master who posted it do you? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Immortal4life Posted December 12, 2010 So if empty force is not internal then what is it? It's not legitimate martial arts. It's students who want to worship their master, or are pressured by the social dynamics to act things out and go along with it. Suggestion, hypnosis, placebo, whatever else you want to call it. You just can't fight someone without touching them. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
