Collected Robert Bruce Posts on Kundalini

[RongzomFan]

and I am still working on mastering the vision screen, although I have been able to access it.

[Sloppy Zhang]

I can only OBE for a few minutes if that.

 

I don't even think Robert Bruce can OBE for more than a few minutes.

 

Yes, but a couple minutes is a long time, especially when (as I have heard) you can travel anywhere pretty damn quickly. From there you can obtain some objectively verifiable information, then return, and report.

 

I'm not sure how the access to psychic abilities work, so I'm not sure how the mechanisms with that, though, but I'm sure something can be set up to test.

[RongzomFan]

Yes, but a couple minutes is a long time, especially when (as I have heard) you can travel anywhere pretty damn quickly. From there you can obtain some objectively verifiable information, then return, and report.

 

 

 

You can't use "instant travel"

 

If you tried that you would wind up in a mind made astral approximation of the destination.

 

Not the destination itself.

[RongzomFan]

By the way, I could teach anyone to view auras in seconds.

 

This would help prove the legitimacy of my claims.

 

EDIT: It also would prove Robert Bruce's techniques because thats where I learned it.

Edited December 11, 2010 by alwayson

[Sloppy Zhang]

You can't use "instant travel"

 

If you tried that you would wind up in a mind made astral approximation of the destination.

 

Not the destination itself.

 

Hm, a bit contrary to other sources, but we'll run with this-

 

Even with that, you could set something up in another room, have someone write something or have something that is unique, that you have no knowledge of. Then in OBE you could move to that room, collect the information, then return.

 

Ever tried this?

[RongzomFan]

Hm, a bit contrary to other sources, but we'll run with this-

 

Even with that, you could set something up in another room, have someone write something or have something that is unique, that you have no knowledge of. Then in OBE you could move to that room, collect the information, then return.

 

Ever tried this?

 

 

This kind of thing I do all the time. You notice something in another room, and yeah its like that in real life.

[Sloppy Zhang]

This kind of thing I do all the time. You notice something in another room, and yeah its like that in real life.

 

You know you can make a lot of money with that, right? Ever think about it? Improve our understanding of the human abilities? Test it under scientific procedures?

[RongzomFan]

You know you can make a lot of money with that, right? Ever think about it? Improve our understanding of the human abilities? Test it under scientific procedures?

 

 

I doubt anyone except maybe Robert Bruce himself could do it under test conditions.

 

Do you know how utterly relaxed you have to be? Its hard to overemphasize how much relaxation is required.

 

I tried doing this for other people before. Its just not possible.

[Sloppy Zhang]

I doubt anyone except maybe Robert Bruce himself could do it under test conditions.

 

Do you know how utterly relaxed you have to be? Its hard to overemphasize how much relaxation is required.

 

I tried doing this for other people before. Its just not possible.

 

Practice? Learn to relax under different scenarios?

 

I mean, don't take this the wrong way, but saying like, "yeah, I can be psychic whenever I want on a daily basis, I just can't have anyone around, and I have to be alone in my room, and relaxed, and you can't test me or ask me questions about anything, because I just won't be relaxed" isn't.... you know.... very convincing.

[RongzomFan]

Ok so the whole key to OBE is utter relaxation.

 

And thats the one thing you are lacking under test conditions.

 

Its like driving a car without wheels man.

[Sloppy Zhang]

Ok so the whole key to OBE is utter relaxation.

 

And thats the one thing you are lacking under test conditions.

 

Its like driving a car without wheels man.

 

Not if you've practiced....

 

Professional athletes are under stress all the time, but they managed to stay relaxed enough to perform their skill.

 

When I hear people say they can do something repeatably, that to me says they have reached a point where they have practiced enough that they have control over when they can do it, and they have trained under a variety of conditions and can still pull through, on top of having tested it themselves and verifying it to a reliable amount.

 

If that does not describe you, that's okay, it'd just be nice if there would be someone like that who could step up.

[RongzomFan]

Not if you've practiced....

 

Professional athletes are under stress all the time, but they managed to stay relaxed enough to perform their skill.

 

 

 

Except relaxation isn't the KEY component of sports, is it?

 

Relaxation IS the key component of OBE

[Sloppy Zhang]

Except relaxation isn't the KEY component of sports, is it?

 

Relaxation IS the key component of OBE

 

Actually, yes, it is.

 

If you aren't relaxed, you tire yourself out very quickly.

 

If you aren't relaxed, you won't be able to perform certain acts which involve extending, or having smooth movements, as well as without.

 

Go join a training program for tennis, basketball, boxing, golfing, swimming, running, etc (it can even be a group class!) with any halfway decent trainer, and you will hear the same thing over and over: RELAX!

 

It's the key to bringing out your body's full potential, and it's the key to making sure you carry out the technique (whatever it is) with maximum efficiency. A tense, jerky movement will not go as well.

 

And from what I recall of Robert Bruce's writing, he says that just like falling asleep, you can OBE while not completely relaxed. It's just that relaxing really helps smooth out the process.

 

The way Robert Bruce relays it, OBE sounds like any other skill. So it'd be nice to hear from someone who's been developing it for a while and can reliably demonstrate it.

[RongzomFan]

Actually, yes, it is.

 

If you aren't relaxed, you tire yourself out very quickly.

 

If you aren't relaxed, you won't be able to perform certain acts which involve extending, or having smooth movements, as well as without.

 

Go join a training program for tennis, basketball, boxing, golfing, swimming, running, etc (it can even be a group class!) with any halfway decent trainer, and you will hear the same thing over and over: RELAX!

 

It's the key to bringing out your body's full potential, and it's the key to making sure you carry out the technique (whatever it is) with maximum efficiency. A tense, jerky movement will not go as well.

 

And from what I recall of Robert Bruce's writing, he says that just like falling asleep, you can OBE while not completely relaxed. It's just that relaxing really helps smooth out the process.

 

The way Robert Bruce relays it, OBE sounds like any other skill. So it'd be nice to hear from someone who's been developing it for a while and can reliably demonstrate it.

 

 

If relaxation was KEY to sports, everyone on the lucid dreaming forums who can OBE would be NFL quarterbacks.

 

And relaxation does not simply "smooth out" OBE.

 

Robert Bruce makes the point that one can attain a full trance state and fail the projection, because some muscles are not relaxed enough. On the other hand, if one is totally relaxed one only needs a light trance. So relaxation is key.

Edited December 12, 2010 by alwayson

[Sloppy Zhang]

If relaxation was KEY to sports, everyone on the lucid dreaming forums who can OBE would be NFL quarterbacks.

 

Because everyone who can OBE can do so as often as an NFL quarterback can throw a successful touchdown pass?

 

If that's the case, why have no OBEers collected any money?

 

At least NFL quarterbacks can perform in front of an audience, even a hostile one!

[RongzomFan]

Because everyone who can OBE can do so as often as an NFL quarterback can throw a successful touchdown pass?

 

If that's the case, why have no OBEers collected any money?

 

At least NFL quarterbacks can perform in front of an audience, even a hostile one!

 

 

I am just trying to make the point that relaxation is not the central thing in sports like it is for OBE.

[Sloppy Zhang]

I am just trying to make the point that relaxation is not the central thing in sports like it is for OBE.

 

And I'm trying to make the point that even conditioned, professional athletes rely on their ability to relax in order to perform effectively.

 

Even if they are in a giant stadium full of opposing fans who hate them and want them to eat dirt every pass, an NFL quarterback can still perform. If he tenses up, gets cramped, is short on the passes, he gets booted and replaced with someone who can perform.

 

So it's painful to see supporters of OBE's and psychic phenomena say, "well I can't perform in front of people or in a test because I have to be relaxed or it won't work." It's like, uh... how about you have some self confidence? How about you practice consistently and test yourself rigorously enough to know that what you're doing is real, and that you are going to do it regardless of whether there are people around, and regardless of whether they want you to fail!

 

If you (generic you, not you specifically) can't do that, maybe they should either train, or find someone else who can.

 

Because as of now, despite the nice words (even of Mr. Bruce), I haven't seen anybody step forward to actually prove that anything they say they are doing is actually happening. For all the talk of communicating with friends across the globe, visiting places they've never been, walking around their house and listening in on other peoples' conversations, you'd think SOMEONE would have verified this, and you'd think SOMEONE, at least ONE PERSON would have said, "hey, I can make a big change with this!"

 

So far all you ever hear someone say is, "I can do it, so I've proven it to myself, maybe you should prove it to yourself too one day!"

[RongzomFan]

And I'm trying to make the point that even conditioned, professional athletes rely on their ability to relax in order to perform effectively.

 

Even if they are in a giant stadium full of opposing fans who hate them and want them to eat dirt every pass, an NFL quarterback can still perform. If he tenses up, gets cramped, is short on the passes, he gets booted and replaced with someone who can perform.

 

So it's painful to see supporters of OBE's and psychic phenomena say, "well I can't perform in front of people or in a test because I have to be relaxed or it won't work." It's like, uh... how about you have some self confidence? How about you practice consistently and test yourself rigorously enough to know that what you're doing is real, and that you are going to do it regardless of whether there are people around, and regardless of whether they want you to fail!

 

If you (generic you, not you specifically) can't do that, maybe they should either train, or find someone else who can.

 

Because as of now, despite the nice words (even of Mr. Bruce), I haven't seen anybody step forward to actually prove that anything they say they are doing is actually happening. For all the talk of communicating with friends across the globe, visiting places they've never been, walking around their house and listening in on other peoples' conversations, you'd think SOMEONE would have verified this, and you'd think SOMEONE, at least ONE PERSON would have said, "hey, I can make a big change with this!"

 

So far all you ever hear someone say is, "I can do it, so I've proven it to myself, maybe you should prove it to yourself too one day!"

 

 

You still don't get it

 

You never will

 

Relaxation isn't a support for OBE.

[Sloppy Zhang]

You never will

 

Perhaps your psychic predictions should be put to better use.

 

Like making money.

 

Or if that's not your deal, just helping mankind by proving to the world that such things are possible.

[RongzomFan]

Perhaps your psychic predictions should be put to better use.

 

Like making money.

 

Or if that's not your deal, just helping mankind by proving to the world that such things are possible.

 

 

Anyway a lot of the benefits of NEW, couldn't be proved.

 

For example I can see auras and have uncontrolled clairvoyant visions after years of practice. You can't prove these things at all.

 

EDIT: Again I am NOT a natural psychic at all. All these things can be developed.

Edited December 12, 2010 by alwayson

[Sloppy Zhang]

Anyway a lot of the benefits of NEW, couldn't be proved.

 

For example I can see auras and have uncontrolled clairvoyant visions after years of practice. You can't prove these things at all.

 

Auras? No.

 

Clairvoyant visions? Yes, yes you can. Well, as long as they are visions of things that correspond to the physical reality that most of us happen to share at the moment.

 

Subjective energy experiences, heaven realms, bliss realms, visions of deities- can't be proven.

 

Using non physical (as the term is presently defined) means of receiving information? (clairvoyance, OBE's to travel to other rooms and look at information, communicating with others in an OBE state and comparing notes)- that IS provable. You can match up your findings with that of the shared physical reality most of us inhabit, and verify what's taking place.

 

 

[edit]I, at least, have absolutely no problems with subjective experiences. People can believe whatever they want. They can believe they went to some alternate dimension and met with all kinds of great beings and did all sorts of things. Good for you.

 

But when people start making claims that they can do things which can be objectively verified, and that they can do them repeatedly? Well you just stepped out of the realm of subjectivity and belief, and have now entered the realm in which factual observation can determine the veracity of those claims. And if you want those claims to be in any way treated with any sort of legitimacy, they must be proven, just like everything else.

 

Of course, it's your prerogative to not prove them, and just do whatever you want.... but we're talking about how claims are legitimized within the society that we live in now. And if you want people to believe you, believe what you're doing, and accept as a reality the other modes of human perception and the other realms beyond what our five senses give us..... you gotta put something up!

Edited December 12, 2010 by Sloppy Zhang

[RongzomFan]

 

But when people start making claims that they can do things which can be objectively verified

 

 

I never claimed these things can be objectively verified.

[Alfred E]

I never claimed these things can be objectively verified.

 

alwayson,

I've been OBE active since I was 13 years old. 'Was taught the Yogic methods of OBE when I was 17 by a master that came to find me in real life.

 

I didn't actually experience Kundalini untill about 5 years ago - which fits in with Robert Bruce's concept.

I learned Kundalini from The five Tibetans book by Christopher Kilham

 

For these things to be objectively verified only one person needs to be convinced - you - and you are not a circus monkey performing for peanuts.

In other words you are not anyone's teacher because they want to see you perform for them. Take your time, do the meditation and you will grow.

They will be forever standing around wanting someone or something to entertain them.

A couch potato AKA: TV junkie -That I keep on Ignore.

 

The reason we don't teach the entire experience is because it will program a person what to expect - which then makes the person to not be sure of what they experience or if they were hypnotized. Remember- A real teacher will not tell you what to expect. They will teach you how to mentaly condition yourself in the dreaming state so as to understand what is real and what is imagined.

 

The key you are searching for is to be found in the yoga of the savasana - which should be taught by a teacher as it has certain key mental aspects that must be learned in order to progress. It is a simple exercise that only needs to be practiced for about 3 months in order to perfect them. Here is an introductory webpage/article but not the full information : http://www.yogachicago.com/sep05/savasana.shtml

 

Don't worry about the TV junkies - they won't be able to skip the 7 o'clock news.

Edited December 12, 2010 by Alfred E

[Alfred E]

http://www.saltcube.com/files/RobertBruce_PostsOnKundalini_2004.pdf

One of the people that began the Kundalini study in the west: http://www.ecomall.com/gopikrishna/

 

There is quite a bit known of him as his case was very famous in India and the west.

 

The website has videos of him speaking, his beginnings, free books and much more that I don't want to steal the joy of discovery away from you.

 

By the way - It is almost 100% documented.

 

1: AM in my area of China - sleepy time - G'night all .

[Ninpo-me-this-ninjutsu-me-that]

 

An OBE fizzles out in minutes at best.

 

 

Concentration fizzles out and then the OBE fizzles out. Developed concentration equals longer lengths of time, another factor is the state of the body, how tired it may be, less tired and it will pull you back much quicker. Yet the more tired the body may be the more concentration is required to maintain consciousness within the other body.