Collected Robert Bruce Posts on Kundalini

[Sloppy Zhang]

I never claimed these things can be objectively verified.

 

Yes you did

 

Hm, a bit contrary to other sources, but we'll run with this-

 

Even with that, you could set something up in another room, have someone write something or have something that is unique, that you have no knowledge of. Then in OBE you could move to that room, collect the information, then return.

 

Ever tried this?

 

This kind of thing I do all the time. You notice something in another room, and yeah its like that in real life.

 

For these things to be objectively verified only one person needs to be convinced - you -

 

That is, by very definition, subjective

 

and you are not a circus monkey performing for peanuts.

 

I see this attitude a lot, and find it falls somewhere on the spectrum between amusing and ridiculous.

 

Testing something out, and having it verified by external sources, is a good way of finding out whether what you think is going on is actually going on. I don't know how familiar you are with cognitive bias, but there are LOTS of ways the human mind can trick itself into believe what it wants to believe, regardless of reality.

 

Again, if you want to talk about other realms or planes of existence, different modes of looking at the world, that's one thing, and can't really be verified objectively. In which case, you can believe whatever you want, you can prove it to yourself in whatever way you want.

 

However, claims that frequently surround OBE's and psychic abilities, such as the ability to receive accurate information about something else which can be verified by objective third parties, can easily be verified in a manner befitting the current scientific method. And if anyone expects those claims to carry any sort of legitimacy, they should be verified.

 

That those who claim to be able to do stuff only insult or belittle those asking for objective testing is sketchy, to say the least. Again, it's your prerogative to have a private life, but just remember, the burden of proof lies with the party making the claims. Don't turn it around and blame the audience, because that doesn't help your case at all.

Edited December 12, 2010 by Sloppy Zhang

[RongzomFan]

Yes you did

 

 

No I didn't.

 

You project your own common man understanding of OBE onto me.

 

I bet you believe the soul leaves the body, and if you sever the silver cord you die.

[Sloppy Zhang]

No I didn't.

 

You project your own common man understanding of OBE onto me.

 

I bet you believe the soul leaves the body, and if you sever the silver cord you die.

 

You do realize that I quoted the very post in which you made the claim, right?

 

I'll do it again, please read:

Hm, a bit contrary to other sources, but we'll run with this-

 

Even with that, you could set something up in another room, have someone write something or have something that is unique, that you have no knowledge of. Then in OBE you could move to that room, collect the information, then return.

 

Ever tried this?

 

This kind of thing I do all the time. You notice something in another room, and yeah its like that in real life.

[RongzomFan]

You do realize that I quoted the very post in which you made the claim, right?

 

I'll do it again, please read:

 

 

How does that statement support the fact that it can be objectively verified for OTHER people?

 

Clearly I am talking about myself only.

 

Thanks for wasting pages of my thread on complete bullshit.

[Ninpo-me-this-ninjutsu-me-that]

You can't use "instant travel"

 

If you tried that you would wind up in a mind made astral approximation of the destination.

 

Not the destination itself.

 

That's true.... but you can lower the vibration of that body in order to be able to see on this plane. But it's like trying to see under water without any goggles on, very blurry.

 

There is a book I read years ago which was an absolute pile of crap on Astral projection...or OBE, or whatever people like to call it. I couldn't find a picture of it just now, but it was written by someone called Sylvan Muldoon and called The Projection of the Astral body. Mostly it was just someone talking balls that they had put together using information from other books. One reason it was quite apparent that this person was talking out of their backside was the fact that in all his so called 'astral wanderings' he stated that he simply walked(floated)about in this physical world and did exciting stuff like watching his mum cooking. He also stated that he had never seen any of these other 'planes' that people talk of.

 

To anyone with some experience of OBE this is highly strange. Almost all OBE's will start in another plane, because that is the natural place for that energy body. There are more people that experience that than ever experience an OBE knocking about in the physical world. It takes real conscious effort to bring 'down' that body into this plane, not easy at all.

 

Another sign of someone talking out of their back passage is any mention of the 'silver cord'. No such thing. It's a big giveaway when someone says that. Sometimes I think it was deliberately put in books by the old occultists to see who would take the bait, and as a sure sign that someone didn't know what they were talking about.

[Ninpo-me-this-ninjutsu-me-that]

 

and if you sever the silver cord you die.

 

 

I just saw this after I posted the previous.

[Alfred E]

I've read that PDF hundreds of times, and each time I find something new (and important).

 

So I would read it atleast five times through.

Some Eye Candy to sweeten up the Harpy/seriousnessities that like to sour things:

 

http://www.dailymotion.pl/video/x1d9qz_spi...-pt1_shortfilms

http://www.dailymotion.pl/video/x1da00_spi...lity-pt2_people

http://www.dailymotion.pl/video/x1da8v_spi...-pt3_shortfilms

http://www.dailymotion.pl/video/x1dae5_spi...ty-pt4_creation

http://www.dailymotion.pl/video/x1daj2_spi...eality-pt5_blog

http://www.dailymotion.pl/video/x1danq_spi...eality-pt6_news

http://www.dailymotion.pl/video/x1dapv_spi...lity-pt7_people

http://www.dailymotion.pl/video/x1dijt_spi...lity-pt8_school

[Sloppy Zhang]

How does that statement support the fact that it can be objectively verified for OTHER people?

 

Person 1 is separated from Person 2. Person 3 comes up with a random picture, and gives it to Person 2 after everyone is separated. Person 1 in OBE goes into room that Person 2 is in, observes the picture that Person 2 has, then comes back. Person 1 tells what he or she saw to person 4. Person 4 then goes and verifies it with the observer, person 5, and the data is recorded to see if the match is good.

 

(or if you are doing this at home, just get a friend in another room to draw a picture, or write large number on a big piece of paper very clearly, or have a very unique object, which you do not know about beforehand, and verify it- of course, the more people you have and the more checks you have, the more you can eliminate the possibility that someone got hints before the OBE).

 

This experiment is done repeatedly, and over the course of many trials is compared to how statistically probable it is that Person 1 could receive the information. Other people do the experiment with someone who can have OBE's. New experiments are set up to protect against bias or flaws in the experiment design.

 

With this set up, you can prove that someone can obtain information using non-physical (as we understand it) means.

[RongzomFan]

Person 1 is separated from Person 2. Person 3 comes up with a random picture, and gives it to Person 2 after everyone is separated. Person 1 in OBE goes into room that Person 2 is in, observes the picture that Person 2 has, then comes back. Person 1 tells what he or she saw to person 4. Person 4 then goes and verifies it with the observer, person 5, and the data is recorded to see if the match is good.

 

(or if you are doing this at home, just get a friend in another room to draw a picture, or write large number on a big piece of paper very clearly, or have a very unique object, which you do not know about beforehand, and verify it- of course, the more people you have and the more checks you have, the more you can eliminate the possibility that someone got hints before the OBE).

 

This experiment is done repeatedly, and over the course of many trials is compared to how statistically probable it is that Person 1 could receive the information. Other people do the experiment with someone who can have OBE's. New experiments are set up to protect against bias or flaws in the experiment design.

 

With this set up, you can prove that someone can obtain information using non-physical (as we understand it) means.

 

 

Yeah you are using your own assumptions regarding how OBE works....like I said.

[Sloppy Zhang]

Yeah you are using your own assumptions regarding how OBE works....like I said.

 

I am going by what YOU said, which is:

 

Hm, a bit contrary to other sources, but we'll run with this-

 

Even with that, you could set something up in another room, have someone write something or have something that is unique, that you have no knowledge of. Then in OBE you could move to that room, collect the information, then return.

 

Ever tried this?

This kind of thing I do all the time. You notice something in another room, and yeah its like that in real life.

 

I took this to mean exactly what you said: you see something in an OBE in another room, and then you can physically verify it.

 

If you meant something else by those words, please clarify.

 

Because right now, it seems that you talked bigger than you really are, and for once in your life, someone is holding you accountable for the things you say.

 

My philosophy when it comes to practice is this: KEEP IT REAL

 

Be honest with yourself about what you can and can't do, and what your practice does and does not give you.

 

The spiritual community is pretty slack when it comes to this, and as a result, lots of frauds are allowed to go around saying whatever they want and charging people out the wazoo for their teachings, when there is absolutely no proof that anything that they say is correct- even when such proof can easily be gotten if they can do what they say they can do.

 

more pie guy has made this comparison many times in many threads, and I will make it again because it is very apt- whenever people go out to buy a product, they look at consumer reviews- does the product accomplish what it says it can accomplish? If it doesn't, they don't buy it. They use their brains and think about whether investing their time and money is a good idea.

 

But for some reason, that same process is thrown completely out the window in spiritual circles! Because a good student "doesn't ask questions", because a good student, "proves it to himself", because "wanting proof is the ego wanting to hold you back", and because you have people like Alfred E running around insulting anybody who DOES ask questions!

 

It's time to cut the crap- and start holding people accountable for the words that they let come out of their mouth.

Edited December 12, 2010 by Sloppy Zhang

[Vajrahridaya]

 

But for some reason, that same process is thrown completely out the window in spiritual circles! Because a good student "doesn't ask questions", because a good student, "proves it to himself", because "wanting proof is the ego wanting to hold you back", and because you have people like Alfred E running around insulting anybody who DOES ask questions!

 

It's time to cut the crap- and start holding people accountable for the words that they let come out of their mouth.

 

Fan that flame bro... fan it good!!

[Sloppy Zhang]

Fan that flame bro... fan it good!!

 

If people were upfront and honest about the things they could do, and if people would actually hold each other accountable for their words, there wouldn't be the mess that there is today.

 

I've been on forums where people were like, "oh yeah, when I was a kid I could use telekinesis and move the dishes around my kitchen with my mind, and organize them without having to lift a finger!" and all the responses were, "wow, that's really cool!" "wow, I really want to get to that level!"

 

It's like..... someone is sitting there breaking everything we know about physics, and nobody seems to, you know, take a second thought?

 

People can believe what they want to believe. But, when someone says something that can easily be verified physically, I am going to ask them about it, because I would want someone to hold me accountable if I ever made such a claim. I have been duped by frauds and I have seen other people duped by frauds, and the reason frauds are allowed to exist so easily in the spiritual community is because no one is holding anyone accountable.

 

I am not saying Robert Bruce or alwayson are frauds. I am not saying that there is no value in meditation or anything like that. But alwayson made a statement (which I have highlighted and quoted repeatedly) which seemed to indicate that he could do something that could easily be verified. And I am calling for some specification on that particular statement.

 

But alwayson's behavior does not inspire much confidence, and he seems to be using the same playbook that many other people use when they try to back out of what they said.

 

People tend to be fast and loose with their descriptions of spiritual feats, especially in forums. People can exaggerate and puff their chest and talk about all sorts of experiences, and nobody tends to question the veracity of the claims..... but I am, because I find that the claim contradicts much of what is known today about the world (after thousands of years and billions of dollars in research, not to mention how many lifetimes were dedicated to the pursuit), and I feel that it is an insult to those who have come before to let people run around and make wild claims which contradict such work, with nothing done about it. Not to mention the many aids to humanity such skills can provide.

Edited December 12, 2010 by Sloppy Zhang

[RongzomFan]

I am going by what YOU said, which is:

 

 

 

I took this to mean exactly what you said: you see something in an OBE in another room, and then you can physically verify it.

 

If you meant something else by those words, please clarify.

 

Because right now, it seems that you talked bigger than you really are, and for once in your life, someone is holding you accountable for the things you say.

 

My philosophy when it comes to practice is this: KEEP IT REAL

 

Be honest with yourself about what you can and can't do, and what your practice does and does not give you.

 

The spiritual community is pretty slack when it comes to this, and as a result, lots of frauds are allowed to go around saying whatever they want and charging people out the wazoo for their teachings, when there is absolutely no proof that anything that they say is correct- even when such proof can easily be gotten if they can do what they say they can do.

 

more pie guy has made this comparison many times in many threads, and I will make it again because it is very apt- whenever people go out to buy a product, they look at consumer reviews- does the product accomplish what it says it can accomplish? If it doesn't, they don't buy it. They use their brains and think about whether investing their time and money is a good idea.

 

But for some reason, that same process is thrown completely out the window in spiritual circles! Because a good student "doesn't ask questions", because a good student, "proves it to himself", because "wanting proof is the ego wanting to hold you back", and because you have people like Alfred E running around insulting anybody who DOES ask questions!

 

It's time to cut the crap- and start holding people accountable for the words that they let come out of their mouth.

 

 

 

If you want to keep it real, lets keep it fucking real.

 

Did I ever say I have done this with another human being involved?

 

You keep quoting me, and IT DOES NOT SUPPORT YOUR POSITION..

 

Lets keep it fucking real bro.

Edited December 12, 2010 by alwayson

[Sloppy Zhang]

Did I ever say I can do this under test conditions?

 

If you want to keep it real, lets keep it fucking real.

 

Did I ever say I have done this with another human being involved?

 

You keep quoting me, and IT DOES NOT SUPPORT YOUR POSITION..

 

Lets keep it fucking real bro.

 

That's why I ASKED you.

 

I asked you if you could, and you said NO.

 

So I said: why don't you?

 

And you responded: because in tested conditions, you wouldn't be relaxed, and then you couldn't do it.

 

And I said, that's too bad. Maybe if you (or someone else) could do it under tested conditions, we'd actually get this accepted as legitimate science, instead of being thought of as idiots by everybody else.

 

No need to be defensive or angry.

 

I just think that if you can do it yourself, you shouldn't stop there, and should strive to get it proved. You know, to rule out cognitive bias and such.

Edited December 12, 2010 by Sloppy Zhang

[RongzomFan]

That's why I ASKED you.

 

I asked you if you could, and you said NO.

 

So I said: why don't you?

 

And you responded: because in tested conditions, you wouldn't be relaxed, and then you couldn't do it.

 

And I said, that's too bad. Maybe if you (or someone else) could do it under tested conditions, we'd actually get this accepted as legitimate science, instead of being thought of as idiots by everybody else.

 

No need to be defensive or angry.

 

I just think that if you can do it yourself, you shouldn't stop there, and should strive to get it proved. You know, to rule out cognitive bias and such.

 

 

Yeah so basically here, you admit that I already addressed this stuff before.

 

So basically what the fuck is your problem?

Edited December 12, 2010 by alwayson

[RongzomFan]

If people were upfront and honest about the things they could do, and if people would actually hold each other accountable for their words, there wouldn't be the mess that there is today.

 

I've been on forums where people were like, "oh yeah, when I was a kid I could use telekinesis and move the dishes around my kitchen with my mind, and organize them without having to lift a finger!" and all the responses were, "wow, that's really cool!" "wow, I really want to get to that level!"

 

It's like..... someone is sitting there breaking everything we know about physics, and nobody seems to, you know, take a second thought?

 

People can believe what they want to believe. But, when someone says something that can easily be verified physically, I am going to ask them about it, because I would want someone to hold me accountable if I ever made such a claim. I have been duped by frauds and I have seen other people duped by frauds, and the reason frauds are allowed to exist so easily in the spiritual community is because no one is holding anyone accountable.

 

I am not saying Robert Bruce or alwayson are frauds. I am not saying that there is no value in meditation or anything like that. But alwayson made a statement (which I have highlighted and quoted repeatedly) which seemed to indicate that he could do something that could easily be verified. And I am calling for some specification on that particular statement.

 

But alwayson's behavior does not inspire much confidence, and he seems to be using the same playbook that many other people use when they try to back out of what they said.

 

People tend to be fast and loose with their descriptions of spiritual feats, especially in forums. People can exaggerate and puff their chest and talk about all sorts of experiences, and nobody tends to question the veracity of the claims..... but I am, because I find that the claim contradicts much of what is known today about the world (after thousands of years and billions of dollars in research, not to mention how many lifetimes were dedicated to the pursuit), and I feel that it is an insult to those who have come before to let people run around and make wild claims which contradict such work, with nothing done about it. Not to mention the many aids to humanity such skills can provide.

 

 

BTW

 

If you actually want proof of OBE....

 

 

Did you ever experience a sudden falling feeling while laying in a bed?

 

Almost like you want to grab the bed to prevent falling?

 

Guess what?

 

Thats was an OBE in progress.

Edited December 12, 2010 by alwayson

[Sloppy Zhang]

Yeah so basically here, you admit that I already addressed this stuff before.

 

So basically what the fuck is your problem?

 

Nothing

 

We got into a discussion of whether OBE's and such can be proven, after you posted this:

 

Anyway a lot of the benefits of NEW, couldn't be proved.

 

For example I can see auras and have uncontrolled clairvoyant visions after years of practice. You can't prove these things at all.

 

EDIT: Again I am NOT a natural psychic at all. All these things can be developed.

 

And I responded that that is not completely true, as things which correspond to a physical reality can be verified.

 

An example being some of the stuff you listed as being able to do, such as:

This kind of thing I do all the time. You notice something in another room, and yeah its like that in real life.

 

And then that's where we got off track.

 

My point is not that you PERSONALLY do it, but that someone claiming to be able to do it (which does include you after this post) who actually got around to doing it would be really nice.

 

In any case, I AM interested in this:

By the way, I could teach anyone to view auras in seconds.

 

This would help prove the legitimacy of my claims.

 

EDIT: It also would prove Robert Bruce's techniques because thats where I learned it.

 

I'm willing to learn if you're willing to teach

[Vajrahridaya]

Not to mention the many aids to humanity such skills can provide.

 

I understand your point and I think it's valid.

[RongzomFan]

 

And I responded that that is not completely true, as things which correspond to a physical reality can be verified.

 

 

 

I don't have visions of physical reality or deities.

 

I just see astral junk...like floating heads of white guys

[Sloppy Zhang]

I don't have visions of physical reality or deities.

 

I just see astral junk...like floating heads of white guys

 

 

So how about this?

By the way, I could teach anyone to view auras in seconds.

 

This would help prove the legitimacy of my claims.

 

EDIT: It also would prove Robert Bruce's techniques because thats where I learned it.

 

If you don't mind teaching, I don't mind learning.

Edited December 12, 2010 by Sloppy Zhang

[RongzomFan]

 

So how about this?

 

 

If you don't mind teaching, I don't mind learning.

 

 

first thing is to take a blue sheet of construction paper and a red sheet of construction paper and tape them to a white wall. Take a few steps back, and look at the edges. You will see the "aura" of the colors.

 

Then take a look at the edges of the leaves of a houseplant or outdoor tree.

 

Now finally...

 

Take of your glasses or contacts (this is important) and look at the edges of your bare feet in sunlight. Sunlight is important too.

[Sloppy Zhang]

first thing is to take a blue sheet of construction paper and a red sheet of construction paper and tape them to a white wall. Take a few steps back, and look at the edges. You will see the "aura" of the colors.

 

Then take a look at the edges of the leaves of a houseplant or outdoor tree.

 

Now finally...

 

Take of your glasses or contacts (this is important) and look at the edges of your bare feet in sunlight. Sunlight is important too.

 

Cool stuff.

[RongzomFan]

I forgot to say send energy to the third eye region using NEW

[Sloppy Zhang]

I forgot to say send energy to the third eye region using NEW

 

Gotcha.

 

I assume you do this before doing these steps?

Edited December 12, 2010 by Sloppy Zhang

[Mal]

If you don't mind teaching, I don't mind learning.

 

Want to borrow my book?