Tibetan Yoga meditation methods revealed

[Birch]

I thought the website was really neat. Thanks again for posting it.

 

I think the criticisms of "WTF is Tummo for" are interesting. I don't know what Tummo is "for" - except, I guess, for when it's really cold out and to show you that you can do real awesome stuff both objectively and subjectively upon yourselves. Maybe that's the point? I think I prefer wearing a coat but I guess if I need to do Tummo (outwith a monastery demo) then I guess I could train for it. Do I need to? Not sure

[C T]

Do I need to? Not sure

Aah... but do you not see that every single living cell in your body, at this very minute, is already 'doing' tummo? Its not a 'choice' thing... its a 'focussed, sustained awareness' thang.

[Aetherous]

[Birch]

Aah... but do you not see that every single living cell in your body, at this very minute, is already 'doing' tummo? Its not a 'choice' thing... its a 'focussed, sustained awareness' thang.

 

Becoming overly cryptic in my current understanding mr Cow. Thank you. I had also read (elsewhere) that "tu-mo" was just a term for the "sushuma" (sp?) and not an actual practice. I'm coming to consider that "practices" are in fact "anti" or "non" or just "opposite" whatever I feel. Letting oneself get rid of "this" more than adding that. A while back I considered that "practices" (many of the ones I tried) were just there to irritate one into a sense of "this is enough" and purge the channel.

 

Then I get to this weird point where I know there's a channel and it's just my silly channel but it works anyway.

[Seth Ananda]

the Yantra Yoga book does not teach tummo.. Namkhai Norbu Rinpoche does teach tummo and you can buy books through the Dzogchen Community with instructions in it and other powerful practices, but it's all within the Dzogchen context. You have to receive transmission and be a member of DC.

 

Tummo without the larger context would be pretty useless. It creates a lot of bliss, and if one isn't on the proper path it will just create more attachment to pleasure rather than wisdom. The purpose of tummo is actually to create a lot of bliss for the purpose of not being conditioned by it and increasing Presence. More bliss = more presence = more wisdom.. but also very easy to get more attached and then the practice is useless and becomes dangerous. That's why I don't think it should be practiced by those who aren't on the path.

Yes, my friend was a Nyingma Lama, and in his many years of training he did a 2 year tummo retreat.

The begining practice was almost as simple as alwayson makes it sound, and as is described in the various books by Lamas. That seems to be the first level of tummo and is considered fine to put in writing for the general public, but there is a lot more subtlety that comes in as it gets up and running, and that requires guidance and thus is never in print in anything I have read.

My favourite tummo description is in Kathleen Mcdonalds 'How to meditate' book. its short. I did love Lama yeshe's book too.

I personally can always get some inner warmth going with it, but I can only really heat up my extremities and whole body when I have been avoiding ejaculation with great discipline...

 

I am going to take up Yantra Yoga early 2011, as some teachers will be in Melbourne again, so Woohoo! My house mate does it and Is a bit of a fanatic about it [in a good way] and it looks like an awesome practice...

 

Be Well everyone

[Sunya]

Cool. I got the book but found it difficult to learn. I then got the DVD from the Dzogchen Community store which shows one of the top teachers doing the preliminaries and I think the first 3 series. I still can't learn it too well. I wish there was a teacher near me who I can learn from. If you have a teacher teaching Yantra, that's awesome

[Alfred E]

Rubbish. Slavery is forbidden.

 

Now it is.

 

Although in the past if you wanted to eat.......

[markern]

Cool. I got the book but found it difficult to learn. I then got the DVD from the Dzogchen Community store which shows one of the top teachers doing the preliminaries and I think the first 3 series. I still can't learn it too well. I wish there was a teacher near me who I can learn from. If you have a teacher teaching Yantra, that's awesome

 

Aren`t there tummo and yantra teachers in the New York area?

[markern]

I think it is important to distinguish between the tummo techniqe itself and the larger context of mahamudra practice. Mahamudra is a system aiming at full enlightenment, so of course there are going to be things you do before tummo that are not, strictly speaking, prerequisites for doing tummo, and practices you learn after tummo that build on it, and practices learned after that don't strictly seeking require tummo to perform.

 

With that preamble, I ask, is it so illegitimate to use tummo in any other context than a complete system aiming at full enlightenment in one lifetime? I think it is kind of warped to say if you are not doing tummo as a part of mahamudra it is "just a technique with some benifit." As I understand it, the Taoist view is that not everyone is not here for enlightenment in this lifetime, and those that are aren't any better than those who aren't, so anyone with a use for an energetic practice (that the teacher judges won't abuse or hurt themselves with it) should be allowed to learn it.

 

I suspect the technique for tummo itself, independent of the rest of mahamudra, is not that hard, and does not require transmission or right view or bodhistattva vows or 100,000 prostrations. It certainly requires some preliminary training for safety reasons. But if it has health benefits, benefits for healers, etc., why hold back on using it in that way too, and making teaching available for the technique and the preliminaries for the technique (rather than the preliminaries for the whole mahamudra system)?

 

This is what Taoists did with qigong, and I think a great many have benefited from it. So really I'm espousing a general philosophy of dispensing teachings, not just of tummo specifically.

 

There are versions of Tummo in Taoism, amongst inuits, in Sufism and probably most other corners of the world. Santiago has learnt seven or eight different versions from different traditions. Obviously these are taught in different context within these different traditions. What you practice as preliminaries, what you practice alongside it and what you practice after having reached a certain level in your Tummo practice obviously varies significantly. I am betting several of the taoist versions are in systems that are largely based on alchemy with little emphasis on insight meditation such as Dzogchen. The inuits and Sufis I am sure have their own spin on it and their own slightly differnt puspose of using it in their context.

 

There is a version of Tummo taught in KAP that is Santiagos own version based on what he found to work best from the different styles he was thaught. The effects of tummo are here balanced with and work in context with the other practices of KAP and that seems to work just fine.

 

I am not sure if I belive pure alchemical systems with little or no emphasis on insight/wisdom or devotion etc. can bring enlightenment although I am open to the possibility that they might. If it can then Tummo can be used in a pure alchemical contect where its sole purpose is generating energy and purification fo the body as part of a larger set of practices aimed towards transforming the body to get people enlightened.

 

Even if a pure alchemical system does not work I Don`t see why combining an alchmical system that has tummo in it with another form of insight meditation than Dzogchen would work.

 

I personally think KAP lacks some sort of insight meditation and think that combining it with Vipassana or Zen or something similar to maximize the chances of getting enlightened is a very good idea. Maybe the void work in KAP 3 compensates for this lack, I don`t know, but at least adding it in seems reasonable ont eh first two levels. Anyway, I think that a use of tummo in the context of KAP and Vipassana is a good example of how tummo can be taken out of its tibetan context and be used as part of a combined path of alchemy and insight or maybe alchemy alone as a path towards enlightenment. THis is one example of what I think is MANY ways tummo can surve a purpose in other systems.

[Dainin]

This book and DVD set is coming out soon:

 

Awakening the Sacred Body by Tenzin Wangyal Rinpoche

 

Product Description

 

Awakening the Sacred Body brings the ancient art of Tibetan breathing practices to the mainstream. Teacher Tenzin Wangyal Rinpoche outlines the theory and process of two powerful meditations: the Nine Breathings of Purification and the Tsa Lung movements that can help you change the way you think, feel, and experience the world.

 

There is an excerpt on YouTube:

 

 

Sounds interesting!

Edited December 17, 2010 by Dainin

[Vajrahridaya]

Transmission is masturbation. Having a special "lineage" is masturbation.

 

Get it directly from the source. Cut out the middleman; the priest, the so called "master" the "community" etc. Ooooh look at us we're special because we have this and others don't. They won't be saved or be enlightened or just aren't as good as us because they don't have the special dogma we do.. lets all go to la la land

 

That concept of going directly to the source doesn't work in Buddhism, because the source is the enlightened lineage, the Buddhas. Other than that, there is no inherent source in Buddhism to take refuge in and the Buddha mentions this in the Pali Suttas. He said, "If there was a self to take refuge in, I would teach that, but since there is no self to take refuge in, I do not teach that."

 

That idea of taking refuge in a supreme source of all works in theistic approaches, but not in atheistic approaches such as Buddhism as there is an entirely different understanding of how enlightenment manifests, and there is actually a different goal in mind, and it manifests through causes and conditions which are manifested by Buddhas since time without beginning.

 

So, in Buddhism, Buddhas are the source of your enlightenment, as they are the influence that sets up the inner causes and conditions for understanding the methods for self liberation.

[Vajrahridaya]

Cool. I got the book but found it difficult to learn. I then got the DVD from the Dzogchen Community store which shows one of the top teachers doing the preliminaries and I think the first 3 series. I still can't learn it too well. I wish there was a teacher near me who I can learn from. If you have a teacher teaching Yantra, that's awesome

 

There is at 151 30th st. floor 4 in Manhattan at Kundroling.

[Sunya]

There is at 151 30th st. floor 4 in Manhattan at Kundroling.

 

They have a yantra yoga teacher come in sometimes but there's not one there regularly I don't think. I hate the city to be honest but if they have another weekend thing there and I can afford it, then i'll do it.

[ralis]

That concept of going directly to the source doesn't work in Buddhism, because the source is the enlightened lineage, the Buddhas. Other than that, there is no inherent source in Buddhism to take refuge in and the Buddha mentions this in the Pali Suttas. He said, "If there was a self to take refuge in, I would teach that, but since there is no self to take refuge in, I do not teach that."

 

That idea of taking refuge in a supreme source of all works in theistic approaches, but not in atheistic approaches such as Buddhism as there is an entirely different understanding of how enlightenment manifests, and there is actually a different goal in mind, and it manifests through causes and conditions which are manifested by Buddhas since time without beginning.

 

So, in Buddhism, Buddhas are the source of your enlightenment, as they are the influence that sets up the inner causes and conditions for understanding the methods for self liberation.

 

 

Your arguments for a supreme Buddha are nothing more than a personification of a Buddha as deity. You consistently attempt to create a supreme source in a Buddha lineage.

 

Your insistence that Buddhism is atheistic is reactionary and creates a binding condition of substantive reality in your mind. Therefor, creating another condition to be liberated and the purification of that belief will take eons. You have your work cut out for you.

Edited December 18, 2010 by ralis

[Sunya]

This book and DVD set is coming out soon:

 

Awakening the Sacred Body by Tenzin Wangyal Rinpoche

 

Product Description

 

Awakening the Sacred Body brings the ancient art of Tibetan breathing practices to the mainstream. Teacher Tenzin Wangyal Rinpoche outlines the theory and process of two powerful meditations: the Nine Breathings of Purification and the Tsa Lung movements that can help you change the way you think, feel, and experience the world.

 

There is an excerpt on YouTube:

 

 

Sounds interesting!

 

This looks really good! And this article from his site is quite good too, https://www.ligmincha.org/retreats/tibetan-yoga.html

[Seth Ananda]

This looks really good! And this article from his site is quite good too, https://www.ligmincha.org/retreats/tibetan-yoga.html

Great! I Love TWR.

[rex]

There is an excerpt on YouTube:

 

 

Sounds interesting!

 

Wunderbar!

 

"Attempting contemplative practices without clear understanding of the body ... is like trying to milk an animal by tugging at its horns."

 

edit: Link to potential copyrighted material removed

Edited December 19, 2010 by rex