Ejaculation, Body armouring & Retention?

[Seth Ananda]

16 years ago I began studying Tantra in great depth. One of the first things I came across [no pun intended] was the semen retention thing. Unfortunately many schools said different things on if/when.

So I pretty much had to spend the next long period trying to see for my self what was good for me.

 

In the periods where i was not doing much meditation, I never noticed much from regular ejaculation, unless I was doing martial art with lots of low leg strength stances. If I ejaculated in a few days before, a lot of my seeming progress would be lost, as my legs/foundation would be shakier.

 

As I have been meditating for a long time, I have found the longer I am from an ejaculation, the more steady my mind or concentration is, as well as my energetic responses.

 

For Instance, In terms of tummo kind of practices, where I have been able to heat up my body with my chi field, and sit outside in a hail storm wearing only shorts and a Tshirt, but remain feeling toasty, all that disappeared after a bunch of Great sex, with ejaculation.

 

Conservation gives me a kind of stable Inner warmth feeling. I like to ejaculate once every 3-4 weeks, when I get to the point that If I do not I will have no chance of going to sleep. When I let that little bit off the top so to speak, It does not seem to negatively Impact my practices.

 

 

But, one Grey area, for me is When my heart is really really Open. Like when I am a pulsing field exchange of Love with the Universe kind of Open. In that space ejaculation seems to give me energy, but often in that space is also when Injaculation [the real kind] happens. [naturally]

 

A friend learnt from a Tahitian Shaman, and he said they use ejaculation to gain energy, but when they tried to share this with westerners it did not work. He described that their [our] bodies are too closed.

This seems to mirror my experiences. In that open hearted space my body softens and more 'armouring' melts away. Reich's work pointed out that when we are completely 'de armoured' the body is in a constant state of Orgasmicness. I have experienced this... lol

 

So I wonder sometimes whether the traditions from closed warlike or patriarchal cultures, developed semen conservation systems, but older shamanistic cultures, who at least in places like Tahiti and Hawaii where body armouring was less present, Just had wonderful energising ejaculatory sex?

 

Any opinions?

 

Be Well!

[Sloppy Zhang]

Don't have much personal experience with the area, but I find that last bit intriguing.

[fiveelementtao]

16 years ago I began studying Tantra in great depth. One of the first things I came across [no pun intended] was the semen retention thing. Unfortunately many schools said different things on if/when.

So I pretty much had to spend the next long period trying to see for my self what was good for me.

 

In the periods where i was not doing much meditation, I never noticed much from regular ejaculation, unless I was doing martial art with lots of low leg strength stances. If I ejaculated in a few days before, a lot of my seeming progress would be lost, as my legs/foundation would be shakier.

 

As I have been meditating for a long time, I have found the longer I am from an ejaculation, the more steady my mind or concentration is, as well as my energetic responses.

 

For Instance, In terms of tummo kind of practices, where I have been able to heat up my body with my chi field, and sit outside in a hail storm wearing only shorts and a Tshirt, but remain feeling toasty, all that disappeared after a bunch of Great sex, with ejaculation.

 

Conservation gives me a kind of stable Inner warmth feeling. I like to ejaculate once every 3-4 weeks, when I get to the point that If I do not I will have no chance of going to sleep. When I let that little bit off the top so to speak, It does not seem to negatively Impact my practices.

 

 

But, one Grey area, for me is When my heart is really really Open. Like when I am a pulsing field exchange of Love with the Universe kind of Open. In that space ejaculation seems to give me energy, but often in that space is also when Injaculation [the real kind] happens. [naturally]

 

A friend learnt from a Tahitian Shaman, and he said they use ejaculation to gain energy, but when they tried to share this with westerners it did not work. He described that their [our] bodies are too closed.

This seems to mirror my experiences. In that open hearted space my body softens and more 'armouring' melts away. Reich's work pointed out that when we are completely 'de armoured' the body is in a constant state of Orgasmicness. I have experienced this... lol

 

So I wonder sometimes whether the traditions from closed warlike or patriarchal cultures, developed semen conservation systems, but older shamanistic cultures, who at least in places like Tahiti and Hawaii where body armouring was less present, Just had wonderful energising ejaculatory sex?

 

Any opinions?

 

Be Well!

really interesting. That answers alot of questions for me.

I spent 6 1/2 years working with celibacy. I experimented with semen retention, Million dollar point etc... I was practicing a very intense energy martial art and form of mysticism. What I found ( at least within the martial system I was using) was that ejaculation was not really the issue. It was relationships. I came to find out that ejaculation was combined with either meaningless sex or with someone that had co-dependent issues, that my energy was severely drained.

If however, I had real lovemaking (including ejaculation) with someone I cared for and who also was strong enough in themselves to give their energy to me without strings or expectations, then we both felt our energy increase.

After my 6 1/2 years of no relationships, I had meaningless sex and I immediately felt all the energy drain out of my legs and proceeded to get a very nasty case of the flu.

I am married now and lovemaking with my wife helps my energy and MA power.

 

there have been times when I have not ejaculated for long periods, but I was also practicing very high level energy, qigong, meditation, MA etc.. and I was able to go for long periods without ejaculation as a result of the energy work. It was never forced. When sexual urges got strong, I allowed myself release.

 

I think when people are seeking sexual retention without it being a natural result of high level energy work within a good system, I think they have the cart before the horse. Rocket fuel is no good without a rocket...

My .02

[walkerinthewoods]

I totally agree that there is a lot more to Taoist Sexual Practices than merely ejaculating or not. There have been times when I found ejaculating energizing and times when I felt that retention was more energizing. This has given me something to think about and pay attention to.

[Aetherous]

Seth Ananda,

 

Your experience mirrors my own exactly, and I'm gradually extending my conservation times in between.

 

Not to scare people...but I wonder if the extra energy we get during sex is good to be using (for those who are more open)? Maybe we can only know by how many years we live, and by then it will be too late. It seems like it's less of a big deal since we're so charged up and energy is flowing so easily, but maybe it's actually worse for our kidneys and inherited life force? Normal people have tons of sex into old age, but many energy workers die young...

 

I'm not sure of the idea that different cultures have naturally open channels, so the sexual energy can rise to the brain. Everyone goes through training or initiations and does different spiritual practices, which further enables this...so I think it's just that people need more appropriate training, to reach that foundational stage.

[Seth Ananda]

 

 

I'm not sure of the idea that different cultures have naturally open channels, so the sexual energy can rise to the brain. Everyone goes through training or initiations and does different spiritual practices, which further enables this...so I think it's just that people need more appropriate training, to reach that foundational stage.

 

I think some cultures like in Tahiti, were straight up paradise. Survival was guaranteed, fruit and coconuts growing everywhere, fish just leaping into your nets, and volcanic soil so fertile that the little agriculture they did, meant that any vegetable just exploded up out of the soil.

Mix that with a culture with zero sexual shame, polyamorous reality and no oppresive religions...

Not only that community massage was a valued past time.

 

= Very litle body armour. = open channels.

 

lol Lets move there...

[Aetherous]

When you put it that way, I see more of what you mean!

 

Tahiti? Totally beats midwest USA this time of year.

 

 

Oh well, I love the snow.

[hyok]

I think some cultures like in Tahiti, were straight up paradise. Survival was guaranteed, fruit and coconuts growing everywhere, fish just leaping into your nets, and volcanic soil so fertile that the little agriculture they did, meant that any vegetable just exploded up out of the soil.

Mix that with a culture with zero sexual shame, polyamorous reality and no oppresive religions...

Not only that community massage was a valued past time.

 

= Very litle body armour. = open channels.

 

lol Lets move there...

 

 

Sort of off-topic, but for some reason your description of Tahiti reminded me of the opening scenes from The Thin Red Line where a younger James Caviezel found himself in a tribal village experiencing the closest thing to Paradise that he'd ever known.

 

I have a personal theory that the writer/director, Terrance Malick, had a Kundalini awakening sometime between Days of Heaven (1978) and The Thin Red Line (1998) and I conclude this by the way he opens The Thin Red Line as well as his most recent film, The New World.

 

Not surprisingly his next movie is entitled The Tree of Life.

[Creation]

Seth,

 

Thank you for posting this.

 

Posts like the op are the thing that attracted me to this forum in the first place, and they are so very rare these days.

 

One small contribution to a discussion that is over my head is that I found it interesting that when you have such a deep heart centered experience sometimes you ejaculate and sometime you injaculate. For one, I am happy to know that both are "natural" if you are open enough, which makes most of the ejaculate or not debate obsolete. It is just an issue of opening [relief!]. But I wonder, have you noticed and factors that effect which happens? I mainly wonder because of that ever so pragmatic issue of birth control.

 

Also, even though you are capable of achieving this state of openness, I gather that you are not in it every time? What changes? Can you intentionally open, or does it just happen sometimes?

 

Thank you and best wishes to you.

[Jetsun]

My view is that there is often a danger in taking a teaching or method from another time or culture and trying to apply it to your current situation as each era and culture has it's own unique blocks and hangups. This is where I agree with Osho in that he saw that most of his western students were hung up and neurotic about sex and anger so trying to normalise that was the first necassary step before they get into silent sitting and older methods.

 

Many of the old meditation methods were created at a time when the majority of people were rural farm workers so they were far more in touch with their bodies and grounded to the earth, they had a lower centre of gravity, whereas now in the intellectual computer age we are far more up in our heads so we need techniques and teachings for our own time to bring us down again and thousand year old teachings may not be as useful in the beginning anyway.

 

This is where some Taoist methods perhaps are relevant because as Bruce Frantzis said in one of his books there are some comparisons between Imperial China and some modern western cultures like where I live in the UK in that both are very emotionally repressed so the techniques to make you more open and spontaneous developed then could be just what many of us need right now.

[三江源]

Hi Seth, nice post.

 

You just know that the way that we do things is so key. Not just what we do.

 

I thought I'd add to the thread to include a word about Alexander Lowen in case anyone is interested in unravelling their body armouring and finding out more about what their posture is enclosing and how to unlock it.

 

 

Alexander Lowen is the founder of Bioenergetics, a body/mind therapy. He was a student of Reich. He is interested on how our sexual response can expand when we free up habitual locks, amongst other things..

 

Here is a link to a site about him, his work, his books, and some video footage of him :

 

Lowen foundation

[Birch]

Thanks Cat!

 

It's a website with some really interesting stuff, not least of all that docu about the use of Freudian psychoanalysis for social control...

 

[S-Curve]

My experience has been that ejaculation has never really affected my qi levels. So I've never really bought in to the whole tantra thing.

 

But this opinion should be tempered with the understanding that the energy levels I experience are far higher then what most practitioners experience.

 

There are exceptions, however. If I am feeling extremely fatigued, or sick, then ejaculation can definitely take me to a lower level.

 

I will also say that I infinitely prefer a loving, monogamous relationship to promiscuity. For myself, I cannot imagine that a "non-chaste" lifestyle would be beneficial. For others, it may be different.

[9th]

My experience has been that ejaculation has never really affected my qi levels. So I've never really bought in to the whole tantra thing.

 

It is very, very unfortunate to regard semen retention as being "the whole tantra thing". I would have trouble accepting your claims of "far higher energy levels" in light of such a gross misunderstanding, if I didn't actually see this lack already. Perhaps your view is just a result of the relative scale you are familiar with.

[Seth Ananda]

 

Also, even though you are capable of achieving this state of openness, I gather that you are not in it every time? What changes? Can you intentionally open, or does it just happen sometimes?

 

Thank you and best wishes to you.

Hi Creation, no I am not always in it, though I wish I was!

I would be one hell of a Love God if my heart was always that open. What changes? Life I guess. Some times the contractions get a deeper grip...

 

Blessings!

[Seth Ananda]

Hi Seth, nice post.

 

You just know that the way that we do things is so key. Not just what we do.

 

I thought I'd add to the thread to include a word about Alexander Lowen in case anyone is interested in unravelling their body armouring and finding out more about what their posture is enclosing and how to unlock it.

 

 

Alexander Lowen is the founder of Bioenergetics, a body/mind therapy. He was a student of Reich. He is interested on how our sexual response can expand when we free up habitual locks, amongst other things..

 

Here is a link to a site about him, his work, his books, and some video footage of him :

 

Lowen foundation

Thanks Cat

On the whole body de-armouring thing, I am a huge Fan of pleasure as my number one tool. Reichs body work was/is very painful at times and I do not think that this is necessary when somatic/pleasure/movement is so easily available and just melts through rigidity... and feels great!

I look forward to watching your links in detail shortly though...

 

Enjoy

[三江源]

Thanks Cat

On the whole body de-armouring thing, I am a huge Fan of pleasure as my number one tool. Reichs body work was/is very painful at times and I do not think that this is necessary when somatic/pleasure/movement is so easily available and just melts through rigidity... and feels great!

I look forward to watching your links in detail shortly though...

 

Enjoy

 

ha, Yes. It's a pleasure to agree with you about your number one tool.

 

I am a fan of pleasure too, transformative in itself if taken deeply enough into the self.

 

Unfortunately not everyone can access pleasure greatly, some barely at all,due to blockages. Bioenergetics is not necessarily painful.. but this really depends on how armoured someone is.

 

I used to think that love could solve everything, that falling in love was the best thing that could happen to anyone, that it would cure all ailments.

 

Now I see that Love itself is a path of great learning and we dont just 'know' how to Love without stumbling and falling and getting hurt, and that all manner of issues block pleasure receptors and even an open heart under challenge can be as erratic as old elevator doors.

Melting through rigidity.. again, and again, and again..

 

But yes, I applaud your blazoning of pleasure and open heart as the way forward. I'm with you totally.

 

I still think that love can solve everything, but now I am less heroic in my attitude about it. Strong shoes and appropriate hat needed, a hip flask for emergencies, and of course a torch and some chocolate.

[Seth Ananda]

ha, Yes. It's a pleasure to agree with you about your number one tool.

 

I am a fan of pleasure too, transformative in itself if taken deeply enough into the self.

 

Unfortunately not everyone can access pleasure greatly, some barely at all,due to blockages. Bioenergetics is not necessarily painful.. but this really depends on how armoured someone is.

 

I used to think that love could solve everything, that falling in love was the best thing that could happen to anyone, that it would cure all ailments.

 

Now I see that Love itself is a path of great learning and we dont just 'know' how to Love without stumbling and falling and getting hurt, and that all manner of issues block pleasure receptors and even an open heart under challenge can be as erratic as old elevator doors.

Melting through rigidity.. again, and again, and again..

 

But yes, I applaud your blazoning of pleasure and open heart as the way forward. I'm with you totally.

 

I still think that love can solve everything, but now I am less heroic in my attitude about it. Strong shoes and appropriate hat needed, a hip flask for emergencies, and of course a torch and some chocolate.

 

Fantastic!

Bio Energetics sounds very Interesting. Do you know how far it has moved from traditional Rechian therapy? [in practice or intent]

 

So Far I have not had any trouble helping people access deep states of pleasure to melt body armouring, but I have many tricks up my sleeve and am always ready for more...

 

Enjoy

[RiverSnake]

What a great thread. Thanks for the input Seth and others.

 

-My 2 cents, Peace