How much pain can you endure?

[Gauss]

[Ninpo-me-this-ninjutsu-me-that]

[Gauss]

Dude, I don't mean to be rude, but if you get close to vomiting because of the pain I suggest you stop way before that. There are no prizes for pain endurance. You can stretch those muscles needed to perform the full lotus in other ways than actually doing the full lotus. The pain is unnecessary, mild discomfort ok, but pain that takes you to the point of vomiting no no no

 

Well ,we are all different and I never recommend anyone to follow me...

 

I just want to hear how much pain others take during Lotus practice and not discuss whether it is good or bad.

[mike1234]

I can't even do a good half lotus. My groin/ hip sockets are inflexible, and I have a bad knee from running into a pole on my bicycle. It will probably take me 5 years to train myself to sit in full lotus. I practice doing a low squat to limber myself up.

[Ninpo-me-this-ninjutsu-me-that]

Well ,we are all different and I never recommend anyone to follow me...

 

I just want to hear how much pain others take during Lotus practice and not discuss whether it is good or bad.

 

Fair enough.

[NeiChuan]

There are no prizes for pain endurance.

 

except for the pain Lol

 

Do be careful of your knees.

 

Yeah big time. To over do full lotus is just an over zealous act. I mean hell I did it, the pain can only get so bad.

 

But the price on your joints/knees are just to high. You'll probably see better results, and not burn out if you're just consistent and stretch often, and not over do it.

 

Rather then forcing yourself to meditate through pain a half hour to an hour a day.

[Seth Ananda]

Gauss, I know there are spiritual benefits to forbearance and perseverance, but I would caution you about applying these to Full Lotus.

It really is a wonderful position and to me has no equal, but it can totally mess up your knees.

I know this because in my younger days I forced it and it really messed them up.

 

Find the good hip focused stretches that are training for FL and persevere with them instead. Seriously all lotus requires is flexible hips. Flexible enough that you can fold your feet up without putting strain on your knees, cause if your hips are tight, they will cause you feet to push down, creating pressure on the knees...

 

I tell you, after good stretching sessions I can sit in that position for hours without any discomfort during or after, in my knees.

 

Enjoy

[Gauss]

[leo17]

Hmmm am I the only one who doesn't feel pain in full lotus? I mean yea, after about 30-40 minutes there's numbness but no pain unless I'm sitting on a hard floor.

 

Aside from that I have moments where I can touch the insides of ovens at about 325F and not get burned (not always...mostly when I'm not aware of it).

[Gauss]

Hmmm am I the only one who doesn't feel pain in full lotus? I mean yea, after about 30-40 minutes there's numbness but no pain unless I'm sitting on a hard floor.

 

Aside from that I have moments where I can touch the insides of ovens at about 325F and not get burned (not always...mostly when I'm not aware of it).

 

Maybe but I have heard about people who had no pain in Lotus before FD but it came after they started cultivation... It is exceptional I believe if you are cultivating FD and still has no pain after a few hrs. Since genuine cultivation is about shedding attachemnts you will get pain until you let go of every attachment, desire and emotion.. Otherwise you would have no reminder about the remaining path to travel...

 

I know a girl who can sit for several hrs in double without any pain, now she is doing FD and we will see how it goes.

[Otis]

While I think it is admirable to learn about and to extend one's pain threshold, I do think that pain at the joints is something to be approached with much gentleness, and with zero macho-tude.

[Aaron]

While I think it is admirable to learn about and to extend one's pain threshold, I do think that pain at the joints is something to be approached with much gentleness, and with zero macho-tude.

 

I agree... and keep in mind that the full lotus is by no means a requirement. If you can't sit in that position there are alternatives. Reaching enlightenment does not require one to be a masochist.

 

Aaron

[RyanO]

Maybe but I have heard about people who had no pain in Lotus before FD but it came after they started cultivation... It is exceptional I believe if you are cultivating FD and still has no pain after a few hrs. Since genuine cultivation is about shedding attachemnts you will get pain until you let go of every attachment, desire and emotion.. Otherwise you would have no reminder about the remaining path to travel...

 

I know a girl who can sit for several hrs in double without any pain, now she is doing FD and we will see how it goes.

 

The severity of pain in full lotus sure is an...interesting marker of spiritual advancement.

 

Since more girls can do it than men, does that mean they are more spiritual advanced? Haha I guess they probably are!

 

Still...

 

I think it is also interesting that you say people who can sit in full lotus easily before FD have problems if they begin cultivating in this religion. Hmm...

 

It reminds me of religious flagellation, etc. Doesn't seem like a healthy perspective to me.

[fizix]

"Since I do FD I consider all pain being karma and it just needs elimination."

" Hence I don´t worry about knees etc, my body is just fine but still has some karma to eliminate."

"Sometimes I get close to vomiting from the pain but that is not too usual since I am attached to comfort... "

 

I have never been more convinced that falun gong is a brainwashing cult. You are going to regret your cultish pseudo-practice extremism. You learn these things from the Falun Gong, that pain is just karma and okay to force yourself into pain? So when you have permanently crippled yourself and still believe its just karma and want to know how to get rid of it all through the "supreme practice" of falun gong,the cult will have you trapped forever in its debt through this infinite loop mechanism - infinite pain = infinite karma, so you will never be able to leave the falun gong cult practice as you will be in infinite pain for ignoring basic laws yet be brainwashed into thinking this pain is your karma being burned! but the pain only gets worse.

 

You think all pain experienced is your karma being burned? You are sadly deluded with these sad delusions.

Edited December 15, 2010 by fizix

[KoolAid900]

It totally depends on the day for me. I usually sit in full lotus for 20-40 min at at time, sometimes 60 maybe. I don't push myself too far with it anymore though... usually I fall asleep before that and then get pain in my ankles, always where it kills me.

 

What is FD?

 

I think as long as there is no serious damage/injury being done, then the willingness to plow through the karma is OK, not that I know anything. When injury becomes self induced it is maybe not karma. Hardship on my path has always yielded quicker and more powerful results, provided I stay true to my purpose.

 

The stretching really does help though... actually facilitates lotus as quickly as sitting in the posture if not more, I think.

[Taomeow]

Hmmm am I the only one who doesn't feel pain in full lotus? I mean yea, after about 30-40 minutes there's numbness but no pain unless I'm sitting on a hard floor.

 

It depends on whether your eyes are open or closed, and if they are closed, it depends on whether you're meditating or taking a nap. Have you tried 40 minutes in full lotus with your eyes closed, meditating? How about 2 hours? If you have, and still feel no pain, I want to know what you know.

 

Cultivation pain is different from muscle/joint pain. Provided your muscles and joints are in a pliable enough condition that is -- if they are not, you will feel ordinary pain, but if they are, then closing your eyes and meditating in full lotus is very different from just sitting in full lotus.

 

That's because you gather your spirit inward this way, and once it starts gathering itself, it comes complete with all the parts that fled from painful experiences. So before you reconnect them, you have to feel that pain, it is what's in the way, it is what's between you and your spirit's wholeness. You can't get rid of any of that pain without having felt it, nor mend any of the disconnections.

 

So, once muscles and joints are ready for the task, that's when cultivation really begins -- everything you've done before are the preliminaries, the warm-up. Cultivation, once it truly begins, can't possibly be painless if it is to accomplish anything.

 

A physical therapist once tested my pain threshold with a special device and announced that it is way WAY high. It didn't surprise me. Not that I look forward to any more pain, but I don't have much "unfelt disconnected pain" left in storage, which is why any new pain is only itself, other kinds don't jump on the bandwagon. The reason for low pain threshold in anyone is just this -- a new pain resonates with an old one of a similar kind, or of any kind just waiting for its chance to surface -- and this amplifies the feeling that otherwise wouldn't be as excruciating in and of itself. This is true for both emotional and physical pain.

[Taomeow]

Nicely put TM. And good to hear. Would you say that meditation in full lotus is one of the more effective cultivation techniques for processing one's layers of pain?

 

Thanks!

 

I think in theory it's supposed to. The thing is, the way it happened with me, I processed a lot of it before I started cultivation. Then a teacher who was teaching the first qigong group I ever joined told everyone to sit in half lotus and told me to sit in full lotus. I laughed in his face, because I knew I never could, and told him so. He said, I can clearly see you can! So... turned out he was right, and he sat me down in full lotus within a minute and I could ever since.

 

So, I don't know how efficient it is as the starting point... but one thing I know is, there's cultivation and there's gymnastics, and they are not the same, despite any possible outward similarities. Full lotus as a muscular exercise... seems useful, but I'd only expect for it to have the kind of benefits similar to any exercise that works the body or its parts into a better condition. It's a very "open" method, you can use it for many things. How to use it to process stored pain... a rare and unique teacher may know, but it is not the kind of info that's free-floating (too dangerous -- in a Confucian, filial-piety based society, you are not supposed to know, you are not supposed to remember... it can overturn the whole society's foundation if everybody remembers what and who fragmented them into bits and pieces from the start and how exactly. In ours, ditto. So things that consciously and intentionally unblock early repressed material have never been taught to the general public.)

[leo17]

It depends on whether your eyes are open or closed, and if they are closed, it depends on whether you're meditating or taking a nap. Have you tried 40 minutes in full lotus with your eyes closed, meditating? How about 2 hours? If you have, and still feel no pain, I want to know what you know.

 

Cultivation pain is different from muscle/joint pain. Provided your muscles and joints are in a pliable enough condition that is -- if they are not, you will feel ordinary pain, but if they are, then closing your eyes and meditating in full lotus is very different from just sitting in full lotus.

 

That's because you gather your spirit inward this way, and once it starts gathering itself, it comes complete with all the parts that fled from painful experiences. So before you reconnect them, you have to feel that pain, it is what's in the way, it is what's between you and your spirit's wholeness. You can't get rid of any of that pain without having felt it, nor mend any of the disconnections.

 

So, once muscles and joints are ready for the task, that's when cultivation really begins -- everything you've done before are the preliminaries, the warm-up. Cultivation, once it truly begins, can't possibly be painless if it is to accomplish anything.

 

A physical therapist once tested my pain threshold with a special device and announced that it is way WAY high. It didn't surprise me. Not that I look forward to any more pain, but I don't have much "unfelt disconnected pain" left in storage, which is why any new pain is only itself, other kinds don't jump on the bandwagon. The reason for low pain threshold in anyone is just this -- a new pain resonates with an old one of a similar kind, or of any kind just waiting for its chance to surface -- and this amplifies the feeling that otherwise wouldn't be as excruciating in and of itself. This is true for both emotional and physical pain.

I sit with my eyes open. I could sit with my eyes open but it would make very little difference as I periodically sleep with my eyes open and my imagination can be very active when I want it to be. Similarly a few years ago I taught myself a way to focus even when looking at a light directly and keep my eyes from dilating...it was around the time my headaches started forming.

 

Also my parents made me take gymnastics as a child so bending into certain shapes isn't so painful. Ironically if I sit on a floor with my legs spread in front of me my feet will go to sleep =/ it's always been that way and it can be cumbersome but it's ok because I can walk and run for longer than some of my friends.

[johndoe2012]

So things that consciously and intentionally unblock early repressed material have never been taught to the general public.)

 

Kunlun / Yi Gong?

[Taomeow]

Kunlun / Yi Gong?

 

No. Shamanic interventions.

[NeiChuan]

Similarly a few years ago I taught myself a way to focus even when looking at a light directly and keep my eyes from dilating...it was around the time my headaches started forming.

 

 

 

Reminds me of the yogi who looks to the sun for energy sustenance, of course the energy is different..

 

Anyway I get headaches when I do much more meditation then I usually do. I mean looking into a light source directly I'd imagine would give you headaches for plenty of reasons.

 

Although keeping your eyes from dialating is a variable I don't know right now.

[Taomeow]

That's certainly different from qigong or full lotus.

 

Yes.

 

The best beginner TCM book I read years ago and kept recommending over the years, The Web That Has No Weaver by Ted Kaptchuck, OMD, first introduced me to the idea that traditional Chinese modalities somatize problems and avoid psychologizing them at all costs. Basically, they do not want to rock the Confucian boat. You know the Confucian drill? Emperor in the state equals father in the family, and is always right. Generals and officials in the state equal mother in the family, and are always to serve the father. Common folks equal male children in the family, and are always to serve the father and the mother. Slaves equal female children in the family, and are always to serve the father, the mother, and the male children. End of psychological nuances.

 

So any "qi imbalance" will be readily addressed provided care has been taken to prevent it from translating into any "what really happened and who did it to me" connections. So "yin deficiency," yes, "child abuse," no. "Yang blockage," yes, "social cruelty," no. "Jing depletion," yes, "neglect," no. "Toxic heat," yes, "toxic parenting/governing/ecology," no. Anything that might connect the "imbalance" to the "actual real-life people and events" is circumvented. It's the same all across the spectrum, be it qigong or full lotus or herbal formulas or acupuncture.

 

I have reasons to believe the rare and unique taoist teachers know it, and the rare and unique lineages have never broken up with shamanic ways that have always ignored Confucian political correctness. But, like I said, no one will teach this to the general public. It's a one-on-one case-by-case deal.

[Birch]

Yes.

 

The best beginner TCM book I read years ago and kept recommending over the years, The Web That Has No Weaver by Ted Kaptchuck, OMD, first introduced me to the idea that traditional Chinese modalities somatize problems and avoid psychologizing them at all costs. Basically, they do not want to rock the Confucian boat. You know the Confucian drill? Emperor in the state equals father in the family, and is always right. Generals and officials in the state equal mother in the family, and are always to serve the father. Common folks equal male children in the family, and are always to serve the father and the mother. Slaves equal female children in the family, and are always to serve the father, the mother, and the male children. End of psychological nuances.

 

So any "qi imbalance" will be readily addressed provided care has been taken to prevent it from translating into any "what really happened and who did it to me" connections. So "yin deficiency," yes, "child abuse," no. "Yang blockage," yes, "social cruelty," no. "Jing depletion," yes, "neglect," no. "Toxic heat," yes, "toxic parenting/governing/ecology," no. Anything that might connect the "imbalance" to the "actual real-life people and events" is circumvented. It's the same all across the spectrum, be it qigong or full lotus or herbal formulas or acupuncture.

 

I have reasons to believe the rare and unique taoist teachers know it, and the rare and unique lineages have never broken up with shamanic ways that have always ignored Confucian political correctness. But, like I said, no one will teach this to the general public. It's a one-on-one case-by-case deal.

 

 

Like I said, I :wub: :wub: synchronicity

[Kali Yuga]

There really is no point of being proud of how long you can sit in full lotus or not.

 

You are not a special snowflake.

 

You do not get a cookie for enduring pain.

 

The ultimate standard on spiritual practice is that you can not share it with other people; you can only point to it. Furthermore if it can be communicated, it is a bastardized, dirtied reflection of the original. This is repeated forever in any spiritual text "The Tao that can be spoken of is not the true Tao" ... "you have eyes but you do not see, ears but you do not hear?" In many ways Jesus's parables are the exact same situation as talking about the Tao, people can listen to these things day after day after day but will never understand because they choose to be brainwashed by dogma.

 

Destroy your attachment by cultivating dispassion towards the fruit of your practice. Only then shall the fruit bloom free on the tree.

[NeiChuan]

There really is no point of being proud of how long you can sit in full lotus or not.

 

You are not a special snowflake.

 

You do not get a cookie for enduring pain.

 

The ultimate standard on spiritual practice is that you can not share it with other people; you can only point to it. Furthermore if it can be communicated, it is a bastardized, dirtied reflection of the original. This is repeated forever in any spiritual text "The Tao that can be spoken of is not the true Tao" ... "you have eyes but you do not see, ears but you do not hear?" In many ways Jesus's parables are the exact same situation as talking about the Tao, people can listen to these things day after day after day but will never understand because they choose to be brainwashed by dogma.

 

Destroy your attachment by cultivating dispassion towards the fruit of your practice. Only then shall the fruit bloom free on the tree.

 

I appreciate this post Kali