The Highest Buddhist Consort Practice

[RongzomFan]

Stick erect penis into a vagina

 

Then do tummo

 

While maintaining split awareness in the subnavel region and at the perineum, take a deep breath through the nostrils and hold it for as long as you can. Release air through nostrils.

 

 

I personally believe these methods are a corruption of Indian kundalini methods, but I may be wrong.

Edited December 21, 2010 by alwayson

[goldisheavy]

tummo is simply body awareness in the subnavel region plus awareness at the perineum.

 

I think this description of tummo is very wrong and it completely contradicts everything I've read or heard about it.

[RongzomFan]

I think this description of tummo is very wrong and it completely contradicts everything I've read or heard about it.

 

 

LOL, should have I used the terms vase breath, kumbhaka and mulabandha for you?

 

I could have used those terms, but I prefer simple english

Edited December 19, 2010 by alwayson

[goldisheavy]

LOL, should have I used the terms kumbhaka and mulabandha for you?

 

I could have used those terms, but I prefer simple english

 

That's not the point. First of all, one description I heard says to visualize the body as an empty balloon in the middle of which there is a fire, and the warmth emanates and spread throughout the empty balloon of the body. Another description I've read says to rub hand against hand and foot against foot, then imagine there are burning suns in the hands and feet.

 

In every description I've read visualization and warmth are important. No description I've heard mentions split awareness. In fact, splitting awareness is generally a no-no in Buddhist practice. The idea is to unify and integrate one's vision, not to split the already-fragmented awareness further.

[RongzomFan]

That's not the point. First of all, one description I heard says to visualize the body as an empty balloon in the middle of which there is a fire, and the warmth emanates and spread throughout the empty balloon of the body. Another description I've read says to rub hand against hand and foot against foot, then imagine there are burning suns in the hands and feet.

 

In every description I've read visualization and warmth are important. No description I've heard mentions split awareness. In fact, splitting awareness is generally a no-no in Buddhist practice. The idea is to unify and integrate one's vision, not to split the already-fragmented awareness further.

 

 

At the minimum, you've never heard of vase breath in relation to tummo?

 

Thats odd...

 

I believe my description of tummo in the starting post is accurate.

Edited December 19, 2010 by alwayson

[Sunya]

I believe my description of tummo in the starting post is accurate.

 

Not at all. The visualization involves bringing the solar energy in the naval up through the central channel to the lunar energy in the head and melt the white drop down. There are also physical movements that go along with the practice depending on the lineage. The melting of the lunar energy down is how this practice differs from Kundalini, which is a strictly fire practice of raising energy up. Tummo involves the cooling downward feminine energy. Also, there is resting in awareness after tummo to integrate the bliss with awareness.

 

Holding your breath and focusing on the naval is not tummo.

Edited December 19, 2010 by Sunya

[Trunk]

This is like summing up Taoist practices as "just stand there, breathe" and saying there's nothing to 'em.

[minkus]

Highest consort practice ever ? Cuddling

Edited December 19, 2010 by minkus

[三江源]

Stick erect penis into a vagina

 

Then do tummo

 

While maintaining split awareness in the subnavel region and at the perineum, take a deep breath and hold it for as long as you can.

 

 

I personally believe these methods are a corruption of Indian kundalini methods, but I may be wrong.

 

I cant quite put my finger on what it is here that just doesnt seem very 'high level' about this, right from the very start....

[suninmyeyes]

Maybe becouse it sounds like a work out manual?

One ,two stick it in and ouuuuuuut,in and ouuuuut.

[RongzomFan]

Not at all. The visualization involves bringing the solar energy in the naval up through the central channel to the lunar energy in the head and melt the white drop down. There are also physical movements that go along with the practice depending on the lineage. The melting of the lunar energy down is how this practice differs from Kundalini, which is a strictly fire practice of raising energy up. Tummo involves the cooling downward feminine energy. Also, there is resting in awareness after tummo to integrate the bliss with awareness.

 

Holding your breath and focusing on the naval is not tummo.

 

 

Right, but all that stuff is supposed to happen AUTOMATICALLY

[RongzomFan]

Om mani padme hum = jewel in center of lotus = penis in vagina

[Apech]

I cant quite put my finger on what it is here that just doesnt seem very 'high level' about this, right from the very start....

 

"Stick erect penis into a vagina"

 

yes, any old vagina will do obviously ... I thought perhaps it would be nice if the penis and vagina went out on a couple dates first ... "Hi I'm Dick, " "Pleased to meet you my names Conny" ... that sort of thing.

[goldisheavy]

Right, but all that stuff is supposed to happen AUTOMATICALLY

 

I don't think any kind of visualization will happen automatically at first. In Dzogchen manuals when they talk about tigles they discuss this. They say they are supposed to show up automatically but then they say "if they don't show up, press your eyes and let go" and other suggestions on how to kick-start them if they don't start. I would say that when it comes to manifestation, Dzogchen people don't understand the workings of mind 100%. They have a very refined analysis of phenomena and the ultimate truth, but in terms of practical understanding, they are not the greatest.

 

For example, if you know how mind works, you'd not be saying that something should happen automatically because you know that while visions can start automatically, whether or not they do depends on your conditioning for one, and also what kind of visions appear also depends on your conditioning. So right from the start they should be saying, "Depending on your conditioning, visions may or may not start, they may look like this or like that or like nothing that's described here." But they don't say it. So there is a bit of a pretense there, almost taking mind to be like some kind of physical substance that works according to immutable mind laws down to the concrete level. Mind is nothing like that.

 

Their ignorance is also evident in their Tibetan manual of the dead. Again, they describe bardo as if it happens according to immutable laws, "only this can happen when you die." Nothing is further from the truth. People's experiences at death are as individual and as tied to their conditioning as the experiences they get during the onset of dreaming. Death experiences are highly individual and depend on mental conditioning. So some people may see Christian iconography, and some may see the light at the end of a tunnel, others may see nothing at all, still others may see rainbows and unicorns mingling with druids, others see their friends and family, others see strangers, others see completely alien things like spaceships and strange beings and so on. And again, some people reincarnate immediately into another very heavy and very visceral experience. Others float around in a kind of a high-grade astral-realm type of experience. Some hang out for 10 days, some for 40, some for 300 years and some fall into unconsciousness and the next thing they know, they're a 2-3 year old kid in some country somewhere on a planet that's nothing like this planet, but it feels as if it's the same.

 

So I just described a minuscule range of possibilities. The actual range is limitless.

 

Now, in tummo, sticking your penis in or breathing a certain way, none of that is essential. The essential thing is to intend to get warm. Visualizations are not necessary but they help to realize the intent of warmness. But the key is intent, not your penis or breath or any other such thing. All things beside the intent to get warm are ornamental and are there for pure pleasure and enjoyment.

 

Spiritual energy is not physical. It doesn't follow immutable laws. It follows very malleable and very diverse (person to person and even time to time) conditioning of mind. Perhaps the only law there is that manifestation follows intent. That's it. Other than that, there are no other laws. Everything else is just conditioning. So depending on what you strongly believe at the time, depending on your mental propensities, different things will happen.

Edited December 19, 2010 by goldisheavy

[RongzomFan]

I don't think any kind of visualization will happen automatically at first. In Dzogchen manuals when they talk about tigles they discuss this. They say they are supposed to show up automatically but then they say "if they don't show up, press your eyes and let go" and other suggestions on how to kick-start them if they don't start. I would say that when it comes to manifestation, Dzogchen people don't understand the workings of mind 100%. They have a very refined analysis of phenomena and the ultimate truth, but in terms of practical understanding, they are not the greatest.

 

For example, if you know how mind works, you'd not be saying that something should happen automatically because you know that while visions can start automatically, whether or not they do depends on your conditioning for one, and also what kind of visions appear also depends on your conditioning. So right from the start they should be saying, "Depending on your conditioning, visions may or may not start, they may look like this or like that or like nothing that's described here." But they don't say it. So there is a bit of a pretense there, almost taking mind to be like some kind of physical substance that works according to immutable mind laws down to the concrete level. Mind is nothing like that.

 

Their ignorance is also evident in their Tibetan manual of the dead. Again, they describe bardo as if it happens according to immutable laws, "only this can happen when you die." Nothing is further from the truth. People's experiences at death are as individual and as tied to their conditioning as the experiences they get during the onset of dreaming. Death experiences are highly individual and depend on mental conditioning. So some people may see Christian iconography, and some may see the light at the end of a tunnel, others may see nothing at all, still others may see rainbows and unicorns mingling with druids, others see their friends and family, others see strangers, others see completely alien things like spaceships and strange beings and so on. And again, some people reincarnate immediately into another very heavy and very visceral experience. Others float around in a kind of a high-grade astral-realm type of experience. Some hang out for 10 days, some for 40, some for 300 years and some fall into unconsciousness and the next thing they know, they're a 2-3 year old kid in some country somewhere on a planet that's nothing like this planet, but it feels as if it's the same.

 

So I just described a minuscule range of possibilities. The actual range is limitless.

 

Now, in tummo, sticking your penis in or breathing a certain way, none of that is essential. The essential thing is to intend to get warm. Visualizations are not necessary but they help to realize the intent of warmness. But the key is intent, not your penis or breath or any other such thing. All things beside the intent to get warm are ornamental and are there for pure pleasure and enjoyment.

 

Spiritual energy is not physical. It doesn't follow immutable laws. It follows very malleable and very diverse (person to person and even time to time) conditioning of mind. Perhaps the only law there is that manifestation follows intent. That's it. Other than that, there are no other laws. Everything else is just conditioning. So depending on what you strongly believe at the time, depending on your mental propensities, different things will happen.

 

 

I don't agree with any of this.

[goldisheavy]

I don't agree with any of this.

 

I have a simple proposition for you then. If you're married, grab your wife and if you're not, get a girlfriend, and simply try this thing you're talking about. Then come back and tell us what happened.

 

It's possible that your mind is conditioned in a way that will result in exactly what you describe and think should happen. Good. Tell us how it went. It's also possible that deep down you don't believe some of what you're saying and that all this time you've been kidding yourself in at least some ways, if not altogether lying to yourself. This is perfectly OK too. In this case, things will still happen but not how you expect them to happen. Good. Tell us about this too.

 

Do it and let's see how it goes. Also you can describe your consort's experiences if you like and she approves.

 

Tummo doesn't require a consort, and doing tummo with a consort doesn't bring any *special* benefit that I can see. It's more about comfort. Some people are highly sexual and can't sincerely or easily enter into a celibate mindset. This is OK and mystics work with it instead of against it. The key to know is that a celibate can do anything that a non-celibate can do, so it's not a question of supremacy or ability. When I say it's not a question of supremacy, it means neither celibate nor sexually active approach can be said to be supreme. When I say it's not about ability, it means both approaches have access to full range of abilities and neither approach is limited. By combining tummo with sex, practice becomes easier and more pleasant for some people. It's also an incentive to make tummo practice as regular as your sexual encounters, which for many people is a good thing. Call it anchoring. So if you anchor sexual activity to spiritual practice, you'll not "waste" time just mindlessly fucking, but you'll grow spiritually each time you have sex. The word "waste" is in quotation marks because it's not absolutely true, it's just a certain viewpoint.

 

So try things out, and see how it goes for you. But even if it goes a certain way for you and even if it goes well, don't expect that everyone else is exactly like you.

[Sunya]

Om mani padme hum = jewel in center of lotus = penis in vagina

 

rofl and here I was thinking that the jewel symbolizes buddha nature, the potentiality for enlightenment, as the lotus grows from the mud of samsara. How silly of me. Thanks for clearing that up. So for centuries, monks have been chanting penis in vagina! It all makes sense now.

[RongzomFan]

rofl and here I was thinking that the jewel symbolizes buddha nature, the potentiality for enlightenment, as the lotus grows from the mud of samsara. How silly of me. Thanks for clearing that up. So for centuries, monks have been chanting penis in vagina! It all makes sense now.

 

 

I don't think you have an understanding of tantric buddhism

[Sunya]

I don't think you have an understanding of tantric buddhism

 

Obviously I don't since I see the sexual practice as completely unnecessary to the core of Tantric Buddhism. It's simply just another method, and completely overplayed in this modern sexually obsessed culture.

[RongzomFan]

Obviously I don't since I see the sexual practice as completely unnecessary to the core of Tantric Buddhism. It's simply just another method, and completely overplayed in this modern sexually obsessed culture.

 

I think you need to read the primary tantras that Vajrayana is based on

 

Aryadeva's Lamp by Christian K. Wedemeyer

 

The Cakrasamvara Tantra by David B. Gray

 

Hevajra Tantra by G.W. Farrow and Menon

[markern]

"Stick erect penis into a vagina"

 

yes, any old vagina will do obviously ... I thought perhaps it would be nice if the penis and vagina went out on a couple dates first ... "Hi I'm Dick, " "Pleased to meet you my names Conny" ... that sort of thing.

 

What does your hieroglyphs mean? They are really cool:)

[ShaktiMama]

rofl and here I was thinking that the jewel symbolizes buddha nature, the potentiality for enlightenment, as the lotus grows from the mud of samsara. How silly of me. Thanks for clearing that up. So for centuries, monks have been chanting penis in vagina! It all makes sense now.

 

 

 

He's actually right but he should do more than tell you to read three books.. It would be nice if he provided the pages.

 

Vajrasattva (Santiago) teaches this in the upper levels of KAP. Aghora tantrism is also a specialty of his so best to pm him and have him explain.

 

~

 

As an example of "veiled" Tibetan language ("shadow-talk"), the famous Mantra, "Om Mane Padme Hum" (Om, the precious jewel is in the lotus chalice, Hum) has also a well-understood sexual meaning, in which the "jewel" (mane/vajra) is the male member and padma, the "lotus chalice", the female organ. . . - For an excellent, entirely a-mystical discussion of these subjects see Needham, Science and Techology in China , Vol. 5.2.!

[Sunya]

He's actually right but he should do more than tell you to read three books.. It would be nice if he provided the pages.

 

Vajrasattva (Santiago) teaches this in the upper levels of KAP. Aghora tantrism is also a specialty of his so best to pm him and have him explain.

 

~

 

As an example of "veiled" Tibetan language ("shadow-talk"), the famous Mantra, "Om Mane Padme Hum" (Om, the precious jewel is in the lotus chalice, Hum) has also a well-understood sexual meaning, in which the "jewel" (mane/vajra) is the male member and padma, the "lotus chalice", the female organ. . . - For an excellent, entirely a-mystical discussion of these subjects see Needham, Science and Techology in China , Vol. 5.2.!

 

Thanks for your input, but I don't think that's an accurate interpretation. Tantric sex, as I'm sure you know, has the purpose of uniting the solar and lunar energies, and this is more often achieved in Vajrayana through trul khor (yantra yoga), but I don't deny that karmamudra is practiced in Vajrayana. But even in that context, the yab-yum image on a deeper level symbolizes the play of emptiness and energy. It's not just penis and vagina. Just like in Shaiva tantra where such imagery originated, the yoni and lingam have deeper symbolic meanings.

 

The mantra om mani padme hum is the mantra of compassion and is a prayer for the potentiality of enlightenment to awaken in all beings. To say that it means penis in vagina is a gross oversimplification and actually does harm to the tradition because those with wrong understands will form the opinion that the essence of the mantra and Tibetan Buddhism is to stick a penis into a vagina.

Edited December 19, 2010 by Sunya

[ShaktiMama]

Thanks for your input, but I don't think that's an accurate interpretation. Tantric sex, as I'm sure you know, has the purpose of uniting the solar and lunar energies, and this is more often achieved in Vajrayana through trul khor (yantra yoga), but I don't deny that karmamudra is practiced in Vajrayana. But even in that context, the yab-yum image on a deeper level symbolizes the play of emptiness and energy. It's not just penis and vagina. Just like in Shaiva tantra where such imagery originated, the yoni and lingam have deeper symbolic meanings.

 

The mantra om mani padme hum is the mantra of compassion and is a prayer for the potentiality of enlightenment to awaken in all beings. To say that it means penis in vagina is a gross oversimplification.

 

 

"Just like in Shaiva tantra where such imagery originated, the yoni and lingam have deeper symbolic meanings." Exactly, I agree. This is no different in my opinion.

 

For clarity sake, I was talking about the mystical deeper meanings. So on one level he is accurate but there is so much more. But alwayson doesn't strike me as a subtle kind of guy. Maybe he has more to show us.

 

s

[Pero]

Obviously I don't since I see the sexual practice as completely unnecessary to the core of Tantric Buddhism. It's simply just another method, and completely overplayed in this modern sexually obsessed culture.

 

Hm, not that I disagree much with the sentiment (although I haven't observed what you say among Tibetan Buddhists online) but I think that according to some (or all Sarma schools?) it's not possible to achieve Buddhahod in ones lifetime without consort practice...

 

As for Alwayson's comment, that's the most interesting thing I had ever saw him say. I never thought of it that way, it could be a kind of an inner meaning of the mantra haha. Who knew there'd be a gem like that in a competition in display of ignorance.