If you could change history what would you change?

[strawdog65]

Hello Everyone!

 

A simple question, a myriad of possibilities!

 

If you could change one thing in the history of mankind

what would you change? And why?

 

 

So deep...I have think about it before I can post!

 

 

 

 

Lets make it interesting! .....

[RongzomFan]

Thats easy.

 

The fall of the Western Roman Empire.

 

This set human progress back a bit.

Edited December 20, 2010 by alwayson

[Taomeow]

I would get rid of the archons.

[Encephalon]

I would make sure that Genghis Khan's son Ogedei did not die in battle so he could overrun Europe and spare the world of Christian televangelists. I'd also make sure that the Great Khan Mongke lived in order to overrun Muslim Asia, sparing the world of the idea that 72 hot virgins anxiously await the souls of martyred suicide bombers.

[thelerner]

Hmmnn, I'm a few days late paying the telephone bill. Perhaps I'd go back in time and remind myself.

 

 

 

Actually

From my vast reading of scifi I've learned 1-its best not to change the past (no matter how crappy things are there's always room for more crap) and 2-when in doubt, reverse the polarity of the neutron flow.

 

Seriously, if I could change history I'd be very reluctant to do so, without G-dlike intelligence you'd be setting things in motion you couldn't foresee.

 

Unseriously, heck I don't even try to change the present .

 

 

Michael

[John Zen]

I would make it so that the Federal Reserve was never, and would never be created. Private global bankers controlling the money supply of a nation? No thank you.

[Taomeow]

Hmmnn, I'm a few days late paying the telephone bill. Perhaps I'd go back in time and remind myself.

 

 

 

Actually

From my vast reading of scifi I've learned 1-its best not to change the past (no matter how crappy things are there's always room for more crap) and 2-when in doubt, reverse the polarity of the neutron flow.

 

Seriously, if I could change history I'd be very reluctant to do so, without G-dlike intelligence you'd be setting things in motion you couldn't foresee.

 

Unseriously, heck I don't even try to change the present .

 

 

Michael

 

In the multiverse, which is where we live, you don't mess things up by changing the past. You just jump to a different timeline.

 

Imagine history as an office building... you can see through the windows, you can see people moving from one room to the other, you can see someone enter a room or leave, you see people talk, make love, fight, conspire, perspire... but you can't affect anything in those rooms by just looking. Now to actually change something, you have to enter the building. Through a door. Once you do, you have changed things inside it. Now the interesting part is, for all practical purposes it is now an altogether different building -- since now it contains you. You can communicate with people inside and affect their minds and actions. You can set the building on fire. You are a walking potential to change everything... except for the building that was there before you walked in through that door. That building, the one you're not in, is on a different timeline.

 

Affecting the past is like that -- you can "see" the past (via learning history) but everything that happened there will remain this way once it happened this way. However, if you locate the "door" to walk into the past through, you will find yourself in a building that never was -- the one containing you at that moment in time -- which only comes into being once you create it, by walking in. What you have created is a branching-off timeline. It does not eliminate the building you're not in. It just creates a new one, with its own timeline stretching into infinity. Once you go back to the "present," the "present" you find yourself in will have been the outcome of the "past" you affected. That's your timeline now -- the one where you've already changed the past by having been there. And it's different from the one you left. Very different, or slightly different -- but not the same one.

 

I view methods of locating this kind of doors, the ones through which you walk into different timelines, as the main goal of my cultivation. Heck, I would change everything... by eliminating the archons, of course. However, the timeline with archons, the one we've been stuck in for god only knows how many thousand years (no fewer than 15,000 but maybe much longer than that... to be determined once I get there) would remain unaffected... so you keep moving with this one quite unaffected by my elimination of the archons in another one... enjoy!

[NeiChuan]

Nothing.

[strawdog65]

In the multiverse, which is where we live, you don't mess things up by changing the past. You just jump to a different timeline.

 

Imagine history as an office building... you can see through the windows, you can see people moving from one room to the other, you can see someone enter a room or leave, you see people talk, make love, fight, conspire, perspire... but you can't affect anything in those rooms by just looking. Now to actually change something, you have to enter the building. Through a door. Once you do, you have changed things inside it. Now the interesting part is, for all practical purposes it is now an altogether different building -- since now it contains you. You can communicate with people inside and affect their minds and actions. You can set the building on fire. You are a walking potential to change everything... except for the building that was there before you walked in through that door. That building, the one you're not in, is on a different timeline.

 

Affecting the past is like that -- you can "see" the past (via learning history) but everything that happened there will remain this way once it happened this way. However, if you locate the "door" to walk into the past through, you will find yourself in a building that never was -- the one containing you at that moment in time -- which only comes into being once you create it, by walking in. What you have created is a branching-off timeline. It does not eliminate the building you're not in. It just creates a new one, with its own timeline stretching into infinity. Once you go back to the "present," the "present" you find yourself in will have been the outcome of the "past" you affected. That's your timeline now -- the one where you've already changed the past by having been there. And it's different from the one you left. Very different, or slightly different -- but not the same one.

 

I view methods of locating this kind of doors, the ones through which you walk into different timelines, as the main goal of my cultivation. Heck, I would change everything... by eliminating the archons, of course. However, the timeline with archons, the one we've been stuck in for god only knows how many thousand years (no fewer than 15,000 but maybe much longer than that... to be determined once I get there) would remain unaffected... so you keep moving with this one quite unaffected by my elimination of the archons in another one... enjoy!

 

 

Hi TM!

 

Please forgive me for asking... What are the Archons? Are they aliens? I looked up some stuff but, still

not sure what they are where they come from.

You've got my interest....

 

peace!

[Seth Ananda]

I would make sure that Genghis Khan's son Ogedei did not die in battle so he could overrun Europe and spare the world of Christian televangelists. I'd also make sure that the Great Khan Mongke lived in order to overrun Muslim Asia, sparing the world of the idea that 72 hot virgins anxiously await the souls of martyred suicide bombers.

Heheh, my small dash of Mongolian blood loves this!

 

It would be very tempting to just say ok, no Mozes!

There goes the entire Judeo/Muslim/Christian world view.

It would be fascinating to be able to see what good/bad developments we would have gone through without all that crap...

[Taomeow]

Hi TM!

 

Please forgive me for asking... What are the Archons? Are they aliens? I looked up some stuff but, still

not sure what they are where they come from.

You've got my interest....

 

peace!

 

You can start researching here... and there's plenty, but don't go to just "any" source -- John Lamb Lash the comparative mythologist is the real deal, researcher of the primary sources rather than repeater of the repeaters, my kind of guy...

 

http://www.bibliotec..._watchers22.htm

 

An excerpt:

 

Archon

 

From Greek archai, "origins, beginning things, prior in time." In the classical Mediterranean world, archon was commonly used for the governor of a province, or, more loosely, any religious or governmental authority. Hence the plural, Archons, is often translated in Gnostic texts as "the Authorities." (There is no Coptic word for Archon, so Gnostic texts use the Greek term in Coptic transliteration.) Pronounced Ar-kon. Adjective, Archontic (Ar-KON-tik).

 

In my usual habit of attempting the impossible, I propose three definitions, or three levels of definition:

Level One: Cosmological

 

In Gnostic cosmology, Archons are a species of inorganic beings that emerged in the solar system prior to the formation of the earth. They are cyborgs inhabiting the planetary system (exclusive of the earth, sun and moon), which is described as a virtual world (stereoma) they construct by imitating the geometric forms emanated from the Pleroma, the realm of the Generators, the Cosmic Gods.

The Archons are a genuine species with their own proper habitat, and may even be considered to be god-like, but they lack intentionality (ennoia: self-directive capacity), and they have a nasty tendency to stray from their boundaries and intrude on the human realm. Archons are said to feel intense envy toward humanity because we possess the intentionality they lack.

The Gaia Mythos describes how the Archons were produced by fractal impact in the dense elementary field arrays (dema) of the galactic limbs, when the Aeon Sophia plunged unilaterally from the galactic core. See especially Episode 10. This event is also described in detail in Alien Dreaming.

 

Level Two: Noetic-Psychological

 

In Gnostic psychology, the noetic science of the Mystery Schools, Archons are an alien force that intrudes subliminally upon the human mind and deviates our intelligence away from its proper and sane applications. They are not what makes us act inhumanely, for we all have the potential to go against our innate humanity, violating the truth in our hearts, but they make us play out inhumane behavior to weird and violent extremes.

Left to our own devices, we would sometimes act inhumanely and then correct it, contain the aberration. Obviously, we do not always do so. In the exaggeration of our insane and inhumane tendencies, and in extreme, uncorrected deviance from our innate intelligence, Gnostics saw the signature of an alien species that piggy-backs on the worst human failings.

 

Hence, Archons are psycho-spiritual parasites. Yet as offspring of the Aeon Sophia, they are also our cosmic kin.

 

As inorganic entities of two types, embryonic and reptilian, Archons can at moments penetrate the terrestrial atmosphere and terrorize humans, although there is no reason or order to these forays, for the aliens cannot remain for very long in the biosphere and, anyway, they have no master plan to accomplish here. The ontological status of the Archons is dual: they exist both as an alien species independent of humankind, and as a presence in our minds, rather like a set of programs operating in our mental environment. The risk they pose by invading our mental software is far greater than any physical risk they might pose by erratically breaching the biosphere.

 

Working through telepathy and suggestion, the Archons attempt to deviate us from our proper course of evolution. Their most successful technique is to use religious ideology to insinuate their way of thinking and, in effect, substitute their mind-set for ours. According to the Gnostics, Judeo-Christian salvationism is the primary ploy of the Archons, an alien implant.

 

Our capacity to discern alien forces working in our minds is crucial to survival and co-evolution with Gaia who, as Sophia, accidentally produced the Archons in the first place. (This comment belongs to Level One, the cosmological definition, but as so often happens with Gnostic teachings, noetic and cosmic elements tend to merge.)

By recognizing and repelling the Archons, we claim our power, define our boundaries in the cosmic framework, and establish our purpose relative to Gaia, the indwelling intelligence of the planet.

 

Level Three: Sociological

 

In the Gnostic view of human society, the Archons are alien forces that act through authoritarian systems, including belief-systems, in ways that cause human beings to turn against their innate potential and violate the symbiosis of nature. LIVE spelled backwards is EVIL, but the Archons are not evil in the sense that they possess autonomous powers of destruction, able to be applied directly upon humanity.

They are agents of error rather than evil — but human error, when it goes uncorrected and runs beyond the scale of correction, turns into evil and works against the universal plan of life. Gnostics taught that the Archons exploit our tendency to let our mistakes go uncorrected.

 

Because the Archons need human complicity to gain power over humankind, any one who assists them can be considered a kind of Archon, an accessory. How do humans assist the Archons? One way (suggested in the Level Two definition) is by accepting the mental programs of the Archons — that is, adopting the alien intelligence as if it were human-based — and implementing those programs by actually enforcing them in society. Another way is by actively or passively conforming to the agendas so proposed and imposed.

 

Jacques Lacarriere suggests that Gnostics detected the humanized face of the Archons in all authoritarian structures and and systems that deny authenticity and self-determination to the individual. He argues that Gnostics recognized "the fundamentally corrupt character of all human enterprises and institutions: time, history, powers,states, religions, races, nations..." (The Gnostics, p. 24)

Corruption occurs, not because we make errors, but because the errors we make go uncorrected and extrapolate beyond the scale of correction. Lacarriere says that Gnostics reached this conclusion "out of rational observation of the natural world and human behavior." Ultimately, they asserted the "contention that all power – whatever kind it may be – is a source of alienation... All institutions, laws, religions, churches and powers are nothing but a sham and a trap, the perpetuation of an age-old deception." (p. 28-29)

This may seem like a dark view of human affairs, but given the evidence of history (not to mention current events), it cannot be said to be unfair or exaggerated.

[Birch]

"All institutions, laws, religions, churches and powers are nothing but a sham and a trap, the perpetuation of an age-old deception."

 

Yes, I agree. And once one agrees, what building should one walk into (or out of) in order to nab the b*st*ards?

 

Is nabbing multiverse-level beings feasible? I highly doubt that it's sufficiently rewarded. Still, I'm in with the humans - being one n all. So there we go.

[i_am_sam]

sparing the world of the idea that 72 hot virgins anxiously await the souls of martyred suicide bombers.

 

I heard an (israeli) professor interviewed on the radio who conducted a study of (palestinian) suicide bombers, obviously failed suicide bombers but his sample group was over 70 who'd been apprehended, and all but one had actually tried to detonate their bomb, so it wasn't their nerve or intention that failed them.. bona fide virgin seekers.. anyway... all but a couple of them gave answers to the effect that it was the shame that imperialist (my word) occupation had bought on their country as primary reason for their actions. I'd guess the results would be the same in other countries.

 

Point being, the 72 virgins thing is fed to us by the powers that be so they can continue invading/killing in the pursuit of $$$, whilst using religion to keep us divided. Please don't fall for it.

 

 

edit:

And I'm with NeiChuan, I know the question is 'if you could'... but I can't.. so won't spend time thinking about it, when it could better be spent here, now.

At least I try.

Edited December 21, 2010 by i_am_sam

[Ninpo-me-this-ninjutsu-me-that]

I'd go back and stop myself making a big mistake with the girl in the canteen at the office Christmas party. Although on the plus side I did get free bacon egg and chips for breakfast for a week.

[John Zen]

I'd go back and stop myself making a big mistake with the girl in the canteen at the office Christmas party. Although on the plus side I did get free bacon egg and chips for breakfast for a week.

 

LOL

[Samuel]

I don't think I would change anything. Currently I'm who I am because of all the bits and pieces that have already happened. Right at the beginning (for me anyway), if a certain sperm hadn't bumped into a particular egg, who would I be? Even further, if my parent's were formed from different gametes, they wouldn't be who they are and I certainly wouldn't. I could have ended up one of those people who hadn't discovered Taoism. But then would I have been searching for it in the first place? hmm?

[goldisheavy]

Hello Everyone!

 

A simple question, a myriad of possibilities!

 

If you could change one thing in the history of mankind

what would you change? And why?

 

 

So deep...I have think about it before I can post!

 

 

 

 

Lets make it interesting! .....

 

If I could change something, I'd make sure that Jesus, Mohammed and Moses were never born. The world would be a better place without the Abrahamic religions.

[dawei]

I would change this question.

[Sunya]

If I could change something, I'd make sure that Jesus, Mohammed and Moses were never born. The world would be a better place without the Abrahamic religions.

 

To be fair, Jesus taught a peaceful message. What was done in his name during the last two millenia had nothing to do with his teachings at all. Boys will be boys.

 

What would I change? I don't know. It's hard to say because what if what I change actually makes things worse? I'm not omniscient. I could say Hitler never be born! But then perhaps because of Hitler it inspired a lot of compassion in people once they saw just how bad humanity can get. As long as we keep the memory of the Holocaust alive, another one will not happen. That's just an example. BTW Darfur doesn't count.

 

But, if I could actually make a choice I would certainly change history by putting a stop to the rise of Islam. I can't think of any benefit to the spread of that religion at all.

[goldisheavy]

To be fair, Jesus taught a peaceful message. What was done in his name during the last two millenia had nothing to do with his teachings at all. Boys will be boys.

 

I don't know. Maybe Jesus should have warned people not to start a religion out of his teachings.

 

If you like the teachings, learn them. But religion? Heck no.

[Birch]

"If you like the teachings, learn them. But religion? Heck no."

 

Top of da mornin to ya GIH.

 

I've been trying to figure out how to change that one for a while.

 

But when it comes to actual History, I'd probably change the way it's written to be more reflective of what happened. Because the thing is, I just don't know.

[island]

The world would be a better place without the Abrahamic religions.

 

Would it?

[三江源]

I'd go back and stop myself making a big mistake with the girl in the canteen at the office Christmas party. Although on the plus side I did get free bacon egg and chips for breakfast for a week.

 

ha ha, yes.

 

In those situations I think of the multiverse.. have you seen Jet Li's film "The One", where he travels across every timeline to kill each of himselves, to make The One him stronger...

 

if we could swing through timelines like a monkey in a tree, avoiding the line in which we messed up. Find the timeline where you get the good breakfast without the big mistake...

 

I guess it's a sci fi version of "Groundhog Day". Bill Murray and Jet Li together would be a nice combo.If I could change history I'd get them in a film together, and Marc Bolan to gig with Prince.

 

How could we change anything in history, wouldnt it be the butterfly effect.. if we changed one thing and stayed on the same timeline, everything would be different and maybe not for the better.

 

I would definitely like to change the time I went to a novice hairdresser and ended up looking like a rat chewed on my hair all night. Although it was quite amusing. Possibly.

[Pietro]

http://www.youtube.c...h?v=D3hHzQGBefY

Benigni trying to stop Cristoforo Colombo.

Personally I think we just should never evolved as a different species from Bonobos.

[Ninpo-me-this-ninjutsu-me-that]

ha ha, yes.

 

In those situations I think of the multiverse.. have you seen Jet Li's film "The One", where he travels across every timeline to kill each of himselves, to make The One him stronger...

 

if we could swing through timelines like a monkey in a tree, avoiding the line in which we messed up. Find the timeline where you get the good breakfast without the big mistake...

 

I guess it's a sci fi version of "Groundhog Day". Bill Murray and Jet Li together would be a nice combo.If I could change history I'd get them in a film together, and Marc Bolan to gig with Prince.

 

How could we change anything in history, wouldnt it be the butterfly effect.. if we changed one thing and stayed on the same timeline, everything would be different and maybe not for the better.

 

I would definitely like to change the time I went to a novice hairdresser and ended up looking like a rat chewed on my hair all night. Although it was quite amusing. Possibly.

 

You just reminded me of one of my more bizarre experiences years ago Cat. Back in the day when I was really quite into the OBE thing (I don't mean the royal award by the way) I had been reading bits and pieces about multiple dimensional selves, a similar 'you' but existing in a dimension removed. I decided I would really quite like to find one. Usually when there was some information I wanted to find out that wasn't possible in the normal way, when the intention/desire had built, it would trip an OBE.

 

In any case I felt the usual vibration as I was detaching but instead of my eyes fading in in my bedroom I ended up somewhere completely different already walking down a corridor feeling exactly the same as I was physical (which isn't common in an OBE). This kind of freaked me out at my surroundings were all rather 'Star Trek', for a brief moment I thought maybe it was a future life. People were walking past me so I was trying to not give away that I didn't know where the hell I was. What really flipped me out was when someone came out of a door and said hello to me and my actual name. Very soon after that I found what seemed like a cabin I could hide in and just prayed to go back to where I came from. Luckily I did (unlucky for some though).

 

I'm not sure what would have happened if I had changed something, he probably would have got in trouble! As it was he probably simply woke back up wondering what happened to about two minutes. Ever had a couple of minutes disappear? Maybe someone payed you a visit

 

Incidentally I once ended up in a females body and I gotta say you lot are sooooo lucky, your bodies are about ten times more sensitive to physical pleasure than a males (don't ask how I found that out)! I should also perhaps make it clear it was consenting! She was being nice to me

 

Misspent youth I'd say.