The double standard of religious acceptance

[strawdog65]

Hello Everyone!

 

What do we as Taoists do when we are faced with ....

 

"The double standard of religious acceptance".

 

Have you ever noticed how it is not only acceptable, but taken

for granted that it is alright to talk about religion in the work place

if the religion is Jesus/ god oriented?

And that all other belief is treated as taboo?

 

I am not actually offended by this, but it has affected me in the way that

I feel like I'm part of some "fringe" group that is not only outside of

normal society, and not really tolerated as well.

 

An example of a situation at work, to illustrate what I mean:

 

Bob comes into the breakroom and starts talking about how people

should remember to keep the "christ" in christmas. Around the table all

heads nod except for mine. When asked why, I respond that I don't

believe in christ and that christmas in a stolen pagen holiday anyway,

as is the christmas tree. When asked what I believe, I say Taoism.

To which the response is "there's a religion surrounding chairman Mao"?

 

The point being, it is not only acceptable to believe in christ, but it is

to a large extent a given that you do. Which is why people talk about

Jesus never thinking that maybe you don't believe what they do.

And of course the moment you say otherwise you are an outcast,

"crazy", "looney", person who is going to hell because of your non-belief.

 

So to me, I am openly who I am, but am scoffed at for what I believe,

even though to me it is incredibly apparent and obvious in everything

in this world.

 

It's almost a kind of discrimination, because you don't believe in jesus.

 

And the response to what I would have to say about the world

in the context of what my beliefs are, is not acceptable.

 

There must be an ultimate creator / god, and you must see the need for there

to be a heaven and a hell, otherwise how would the sinners be punished for

their dastardly deeds commited against the holy father in the sky?

There must be these things, the world view of the believers demands it, so it must be true!

 

How dare I believe something that removes sin, and punishment in the

fires of purgatory!

 

How dare I believe that we all have the inherent capability of doing good,

that there is no actual evil other than the judgment that exists in

the mind of man, how dare I!

 

I must be an insane lunatic not to believe in god!!!!

 

In our society you must believe in God, otherwise you are an immoral

person with no redeeming qualities.

 

And believing in "General Mao's religion" I must be a communist as well!

 

I know that 99 percent of this stems from outright ignorance, and intolerance.

But it is a real issue.

 

I do not have a problem tolerating people of other beliefs, their actions are

much more important than their beliefs. As long as they act in a way that is

somehow beneficial and of service to the world, it's all good.

 

So how do we as Taoists interact within a social environment that is inherently

not accepting of any belief system that is other than the monotheistic religions

that compromise the majority of the people we meet?

 

Are we as believers of Tao, are we immoral?

Do we not have a sense of right and wrong?

How do we as Taoists explain what we believe?

 

And not sound like a nut?

 

Merry Pagan Holiday!!

 

Peace!

[manitou]

Again.....HAPPY FESTIVUS!! For the restivus!

 

I managed to land smack dab in the middle of the bible belt without realizing it until it was too late. I can't begin to tell you what a trip it's been and the culture shock that Joe and I have had to deal with. Yes, we too are looked upon as communists around here due to our politics; and that's before religion even gets into it.

 

My young cousin who lives in this town is constantly sending me things to save my soul. I put up with it for a while. But he's high school age, and I figured if he's old enough to send this stuff out, he's old enough to hear my response. Basically, I told him he was delusional, only I said it really nicely. The thing that gets to me more than anything, Dawg, is the way these folks will fight to the death to make sure every baby is born, and then fight to the death against health care for the same baby. I didn't realize the full dichotomy of the mindset before I moved back here and started having coffee at Tim Horton's every morning.

 

I guess I've just been keeping my mouth shut for the past month during the holidays. My relatives send me christmas cards that have Christ underlined, just to make sure I get the point. At this point I tend to think of them as well intended people that are stuck in a box. One of these days, when someone really wants to sit down and talk about this, I'm going to have a conversation about Jesus, if he even existed, being an Essene and a shaman; but that conversation really has to have the right time, place, and mindset. I'd also like to have a conversation with them about all of us are sons of 'god', not just Jesus - and that the more we walk our individual paths the closer we come to being able to actually do what the Nazarere was fabled to do. And I'd especially like to sit down and have a talk with them about walking like they talk; to stop celebrating Jesus' birthday, which seems to be about all they do, and actually become the loving and forgiving spirit that they worship from afar.

 

That's it, really. They're worshipping something from afar, or at least the ones I'm talking about. I've not met anyone in this incestuous little town that seems to have spiritually crawled through the Jesus box. I'm sure they're here, I've just not met one yet......

[ralis]

I would say that all religions are systems that limit the experience of the adherents of. Systems by their very nature are limited.

[suninmyeyes]

Hello Strawdog,

interesting to read your post from the other side of the world and note cultural differences.I have never been to USA(I have tried to get the visa once but have not suceeded due to being from "scam of the earth" second class country).

Cannot relate to your post at all due to growing up in communisam (in atheist household)religion was almost banned.

And being most of adult life either on the road or in total fringe of society enviroment where I dont encounter such attitudes.

However it does sound annoying.And I think I am starting to understand why so many American Tao Bums have almost a type of allergy and dislike to anything Christian .

Best,Sun

[strawdog65]

 

I guess I've just been keeping my mouth shut for the past month during the holidays. My relatives send me christmas cards that have Christ underlined, just to make sure I get the point. At this point I tend to think of them as well intended people that are stuck in a box. One of these days, when someone really wants to sit down and talk about this, I'm going to have a conversation about Jesus, if he even existed, being an Essene and a shaman; but that conversation really has to have the right time, place, and mindset. I'd also like to have a conversation with them about all of us are sons of 'god', not just Jesus - and that the more we walk our individual paths the closer we come to being able to actually do what the Nazarere was fabled to do. And I'd especially like to sit down and have a talk with them about walking like they talk; to stop celebrating Jesus' birthday, which seems to be about all they do, and actually become the loving and forgiving spirit that they worship from afar.

 

 

Hi Manitou!

 

Thanks for your thoughts!

 

This is what I'm talking about. People treat you like you need to be saved by them!

Never once thinking that maybe they should let us save them!

 

It seems a very inconsiderate imposition, to me, that someone would just assume

that because I look like them, that I think and believe like them as well.

 

The imposition being, when they automatically talk to you like you believe

all they believe. Never once thinking, "oh maybe they don't see things like me,

and I should not intrude by pushing my own belief down their throat".

 

The christmas card thing is hilarious!

I receive a christmas card with jesus all over it from a co-worker every year.

She knows I do not believe as her. I have just come right out and said in front

of her that "there is no god and that it is a story we are told as children and

we believed it". And still she tries to save my soul from eternal damnation.

 

Why do people assume that their belief is something that is Unilateral?

 

Why do they not see the imposition of their acts ?

And where is the religious tolerance of that belief?

 

It is tiring to listen to all the talk and mention of god, and jesus this and jesus that.

I always tell people that jesus is easy for me to find, I put him behind the sofa!

 

Thats another subject.... religion and a sense of humor!

 

Anyone have a spare drawing of mohamed? I could use a laugh!

 

Peace!

[strawdog65]

Hello Strawdog,

interesting to read your post from the other side of the world and note cultural differences.I have never been to USA(I have tried to get the visa once but have not suceeded due to being from "scam of the earth" second class country).

Cannot relate to your post at all due to growing up in communisam (in atheist household)religion was almost banned.

And being most of adult life either on the road or in total fringe of society enviroment where I dont encounter such attitudes.

However it does sound annoying.And I think I am starting to understand why so many American Tao Bums have almost a type of allergy and dislike to anything Christian .

Best,Sun

 

 

Thanks for replying Suninmyeyes!

 

I bet you are very confused at times readings the comments we make.

Coming from a communist back round, it must seem very alien.

 

I think a lot of it stems from the way religion is force fed to a lot of

us from an early age. So when we make a break from what we've been

told all our lives, it can be very bitter.

 

Of course it would help immensely if our society was more open

to acknowledging that there are many more paths than christianity.

 

Peace!

[Marblehead]

Hi Strawdog,

 

Of course, I don't get involved in that stuff at a work-place as I no longer work but if the subject of religion does come up I start off with something like, "I am a follower of an ancient Chinese philosophy called Daoism."

 

The questions that follow will vary but I generally end up telling whoever a bit about Taoist Philosophy.

 

Of course, the question always comes up, "Do you believe Jesus was God?" or something to that effect.

 

My natural response is something like, "No, Jesus wasn't born for another 500 years after my philosophy was founded."

 

Basically I try to suggest that I hold to a belief that is much older than the Christian religion.

 

It doesn't take long for them to understand that I have no need for their guidance or saving and they mildly walk away.

 

However, my good friend, who is a non-denominational Christian, and I discuss beliefs now and then and we try to find parallels between the two.

 

Personally, I think it is bad manners to discuss religion at the work place.

[phore]

I think manstream christianity uses scare tactics to unbalance people who would otherwise develop into loving and accepting spiritual people naturally. I personally think that is crippling the spiritual potential of western society.

Alas, i long for the days when we all followed the moon.

[manitou]

I've noticed that atheism in its internet-organized fashion is becoming more vocal. They too have felt like they've had to swallow their words for many years - at least the ones I've known. No longer. Perhaps we'll see Atheist-Pride parades in front of the crystal cathedral.

[3bob]

"judge the tree by its fruit..."

 

Btw, how insane is it for certain Chinese parents (and certain other Asian parents) who live in the lands where "Taoism" arose to murder their female daughters because having sons is better??

 

So please don't narrow mans inhumanity to man (by concentrating on certain so called Christians) when in fact such is a universal problem that happens under various names and at various times and places, which has included just about all of mankind at sometime or another in our history.

 

Om

[strawdog65]

"judge the tree by its fruit..."

 

Btw, how insane is it for certain Chinese parents (and certain other Asian parents) who live in the lands where "Taoism" arose to murder their female daughters because having sons is better??

 

So please don't narrow mans inhumanity to man (by concentrating on certain so called Christians) when in fact such is a universal problem that happens under various names and at various times and places, which has included just about all of mankind at sometime or another in our history.

 

Om

 

Lets agree then that it is the controlling religion of that particular

age that usually becomes corrupted to the point of committing the

historical precedent of atrocities. Matters not if it's christian, muslim,

Nazi, or any other belief system. Ultimate power, even in the hands

of the self proclaimed righteous, still ultimately corrupts.

 

 

Peace!

[3bob]

Lets agree then that it is the controlling religion of that particular

age that usually becomes corrupted to the point of committing the

historical precedent of atrocities. Matters not if it's christian, muslim,

Nazi, or any other belief system. Ultimate power, even in the hands

of the self proclaimed righteous, still ultimately corrupts.

 

Peace!

 

True religion is a manifestation of True Spirit. True Spirit is ultimate power and not corruptible nor corrupting and ultimately un-nameable. Also the truly righteous have no need for self-proclamation just as the sun has no need to say that it shines.

 

That which can be named (and manipulated by ego) can be corrupted in relative view and twisted permutations, although such is not automatic nor to be made into an all inclusive generalization such as that often heard echoed about.

 

Thus True Peace Is,

 

Om

Edited December 25, 2010 by 3bob

[surfingbudda]

Lets agree then that it is the controlling religion of that particular

age that usually becomes corrupted to the point of committing the

historical precedent of atrocities. Matters not if it's christian, muslim,

Nazi, or any other belief system. Ultimate power, even in the hands

of the self proclaimed righteous, still ultimately corrupts.

 

 

Peace!

 

Absolute power corrupts absolutely. Its a shame that most americans, and people for that matter can't be more open to the possibility of new ideas. I think all religions have something to offer, but as a whole they are all pretty much just a means to control the masses. I still don't get how people from religions which at their core are supposed to be very peaceful and loving like Christianity and Islam can agree to go to war and kill other people. Its sad that christianity has become coined with being patriotic and political, I highly doubt the real Jesus would be too happy with the way things have turned out. I bet if we were able to put Jesus, Buddha, Lao Tzu, ect. in a room together they would get along quite fine and agree that their philosophies weren't all that different, its because true spiritual knowledge comes from looking inside and at the core of all of us we all come from the same source. I think if a religion doesn't teach one to respect all forms of life and teach one to become a loving and compassionate being, then the religion is useless in my book.

[3bob]

Absolute is not two...

 

"Tao" as "absoulte" is not two...

 

Thus if Tao of absoulte power is corruptable and corrupting then all is in utter vanity, and kiss your ass goodbye.

 

(this one has seen otherwise )

 

Om

[strawdog65]

Absolute power corrupts absolutely. Its a shame that most americans, and people for that matter can't be more open to the possibility of new ideas. I think all religions have something to offer, but as a whole they are all pretty much just a means to control the masses. I still don't get how people from religions which at their core are supposed to be very peaceful and loving like Christianity and Islam can agree to go to war and kill other people. Its sad that christianity has become coined with being patriotic and political, I highly doubt the real Jesus would be too happy with the way things have turned out. I bet if we were able to put Jesus, Buddha, Lao Tzu, ect. in a room together they would get along quite fine and agree that their philosophies weren't all that different, its because true spiritual knowledge comes from looking inside and at the core of all of us we all come from the same source. I think if a religion doesn't teach one to respect all forms of life and teach one to become a loving and compassionate being, then the religion is useless in my book.

 

 

Hi surfingbudda!

 

It is debatable whether there even was an actual jesus. And the same could be said

for many other historical figures. But even so, I do believe that if they were all in a

room together, they would find much in common, and welcome each others ideas.

 

The problem of even the best intentioned belief system is the corruption that

is used as a means of controlling people, power, and wealth. Anytime there is

something to be gained in the physical world, the possibility of corruption exists.

 

It's what happens when material wealth becomes the focus of religion. I don't

see too many "shabby" churches being built. look inside of those churches and

feast your eyes on the myriad of things begat only from wealth. Hows that golden

chalice in your house?

 

Do you own a house that sits unoccupied 75% of the time?

A large house that could be used daily to help feed and shelter the homeless people

in that community. Of course it's better to not use what you have without a paying

audience I guess.

 

Churches can help in ways they DO NOT. The words spoken in masses are just printed

words on a page. The are not put to use by the church itself.

 

Are you able to not pay taxes and accumulate wealth while asking for a percentage

of peoples pay every week in tithings?

 

I don't see to many TV evangelists dressed in shabby clothing. When those who

represent a belief system are fixated on material wealth themselves,

what else will people get from their message?

 

Better to have no religion, than one that is blind to it's own hypocrisy.

 

 

Peace!

Edited December 25, 2010 by strawdog65

[surfingbudda]

 

 

Better to have no religion, than one that is blind to it's own hypocrisy.

 

 

 

Amen!

[Komako]

It is best to release one's pride in this situation. Sometimes it is not welcome to let others know you are a follower of the Way, and silence is key. Or simply say: "I am not a follower of Christ, but I understand his teachings, and I too wish to be compassionate and generous to all."

[strawdog65]

It is best to release one's pride in this situation. Sometimes it is not welcome to let others know you are a follower of the Way, and silence is key. Or simply say: "I am not a follower of Christ, but I understand his teachings, and I too wish to be compassionate and generous to all."

 

 

Hi Komako!

 

Thank you for such a direct logical response. I agree, thats a great way to handle

the situation!

 

Thank you. Peace!

[Otis]

I think there's always a double standard when there is a dominant local belief system. Look anywhere in the world, and you have the in-crowd announcing their faiths from the steeples, while believers of other systems keep their heads down and mouths shut.

 

But there's a great gift, in being one of those on the outside. The followers of the dominant belief system rarely have their beliefs questioned, and so, rarely have to examine them.

 

But we, who seem out-of-touch with consensus reality, have our beliefs questioned all the time. Thus, we are forced to "clear the brush" of our beliefs, getting rid of the superstitious and self-serving junk, and paying attention to what really makes sense.

 

If we are not able to find the Occam's razor simplicity behind our beliefs, then chances are, our beliefs should be let go of. If our beliefs make no sense, but we insist on them anyway, then we are every bit as hypocritical.

 

So count yourself lucky that you are not the dominant belief system. Far better to be doubted, and to doubt my self, until the water "runs clean", then to hold onto unexamined beliefs because they make me feel special or right.