The Three Wise Men were Taoist!

[Immortal4life]

Jesus the Nazarene? What does it really mean?

 

The Essene teacher who was to come out and teach more publically to succeed and surpass Jon the Baptist who was also an Essene. Both were of sacred or royal lineages.

 

Video clips about their beliefs and life-

 

Jesus, Jon the Baptist, and their connections to the Essenes-

 

The 4 Gospels and the similarities to the Dead Sea Scrolls-

 

Information and introduction-

The Essenes were a third religious sect during the time of Christ that lived away from the towns. Instead they lived in simple communities. The Essenes practiced the seventh day sabbath, believed in reincarnation, non-violence to all living creatures and the sharing of all material possesions. They were uninvolved in the politics of the Sadducees and Pharisees and shunned publicity. Because of the discovery of dead sea scroll material, this ancient sect and their teachings are back alive. The dead sea scrolls were hidden by this ancient people long ago in the caves of Qumram. Josephus writing around 80 A.D. said that the Essenes were Jews by birth but seemed to have a greater affection for one another than they did for the Pharisees and Sadducees. Their piety toward God was extraordinary. They wore chitw garments. They used no profanity. They were ministers of peace and they spent a great deal of time studying the writings of the ancients.

 

The Dead Sea Scrolls were found in 1945, yet it took 50 years for the information to leak out about thes extraordinary people. What was so shocking to the scholars who examined the ancient documents was that there was a community of people practicing Christianity, or something very close to it, for at least 200 years before the time of Christ. Both the practice of baptism and of the sharing of the wine are recorded as part of their practices long before Jesus and John the Baptist popularized them.

 

Some historical quotes-

They possess nothing of their own, not house, field, slave nor flocks, nor anything which feeds and procures wealth. They live together in brotherhoods, and eat in common together. Everything they do is for the common good of the group. They work at many different jobs and attack their work with amazing zeal and dedication, working from before sunrise to almost sunset without complaint, but in obvious exhilaration. Their exercise is their work. Indeed, they believe their own training to be more agreeable to body and soul, and more lasting, than athletic games, since their exercises remain fitted to their age, even when the body no longer possesses its full strength"

 

"They neither buy nor sell anything among themselves. They give to each other freely and feel no need to repay anything in exchange. Before sunrise they recite certain ancestral prayers to the sun as though entreating it to rise. They work until about 11 A.M. when they put on ritual loincloths and bathe for purification. Then they enter a communal hall,where no one else is allowed,and eat only one bowlful of food for each man, ! together with their loaves of bread. They eat in silence. Afterwards they lay aside their sacred garment and go back to work until the evening. At evening they partake dinner in the same manner. During meals they are sober and quiet and their silence seems a great mystery to people outside. Their food and drink are so measured out that they are satisfied but no more. They see bodily pleasure as sinful. On the whole they do nothing unless ordered by their superiors, but two things they are allowed to do on their own discretion: to help those 'worthy of help', and to offer food to the needy. They are not allowed, however, to help members of their own families without permission from superiors. They are very careful not to exhibit their anger, carefully controlling such outbursts. They are very loyal and are peacemakers. They refuse to swear oaths, believing every word they speak to be stronger than an oath. They are scrupulous students of the ancient literature. They are ardent students in the healing of diseases, of the roots offering protection, and of the properties of stones. Those desiring to enter the sect are not allowed immediate entrance. They are made to wait outside for a period of one year."

 

"They believe that their souls are immortal, but that their bodies are corruptible. They believe the soul is trapped in the body and is freed with death. "

 

"Some of the Essenes became expert in forecasting the future."

 

"When they enter the sect, they must surrender all of their money and possessions into the common fund, to be put at the disposal of everyone; one single property for the whole group. Therefore neither the humiliation of poverty nor the pride of possession is to be seen anywhere among them."

The first reference to the Essenes comes from Josephus, writing about the death of Antigonus in 103 B.C. Josephus relates that the Essenes had an uncanny ability to successfully predict future events, and that the death of Antigonus at the hands of his brother, Aristobulus, ruler of Judea, had been accurately forecast by an Essene named Judas. (2.)

 

Josephus states that 'Judas was an Essene born and bred, indicating that he had been born into the movement at least a few decades earlier.

 

Also, what we know from the Dead Sea Scrolls-

Their theology was dominated by apocalyptic ideas, in which there were confrontations between God (the power of light) and Belial (the power of the earth and darkness). The Essenes saw themselves as the soldiers of God, and they prepared for participation in battle.

 

 

Jesus the Nazarene

 

 

Jesus Christ teacher of Rightousness

 

Buddha

Mudras & Hand Symbolism--the Power of Mudras Part 1: What Are Mudras?

 

Real Taoist mudra

 

5000 years ago, ancient spiritual tradition of India spoke of a universal source of all life. The energy called prana. This universal energy is the breath of life moves through all forms to give them life. Yogis work with this energy with breathing techniques, meditation, and physical exercise to produce altered states of consciousness and longevity

3,000 years ago, the ancient Qigong masters in China were practicing their meditative discipline to balance and invigorate the human energy field. They called this vital energy that pervades all forms, both animate and inanimate, Qi. The Qi is the vital energy of the body; while gong means the skill of moving this Qi and working with it. Practitioners use mind control to move and control the Qi to not only improve health and longevity, but also to enhance awareness, psychic powers, and spiritual development. The ancient Qigong masters also developed Tai Chi, Kung Fu, and the martial arts. In addition, they made the first model for acupuncture. Acupuncturists insert needles, or use moxa, or put magnets at specific acupuncture points to balance the yin and yang of the human energy field. When the Qi is balanced, the entity has good health. When the Qi is unbalanced, the entity has poor or impaired health.

The Kabbalah, the Jewish mystical teachings written about 538 B.C., calls these energies the astral light. Later on, Christian paintings and sculptures show a halo around the head of Christ and other spiritual leaders. Similarly, we see this halo on statues and paintings of Buddha, and also see energy or light coming from the fingers of many of the gods of India.

 

 

 

 

Jesus in India

YouTube - jesus christ in india

 

 

 

I actually think it was most likely, ultimately Tibet where Jesus spent his lost years. Where the central headquarters of the Great White Brotherhood was probably located. The Essenes were a branch IMO of the legendary great white brotherhood of Shangri La.

 

Other evidence tells us that Jesus taught the initiatic mysteries, the science of immortality, like the great Eastern mystics. In 1958 at a Greek Orthodox monastery in the Judaean desert, Morton Smith discovered a letter written in A.D. 200 by Clement of Alexandria. The letter speaks of a secret gospel of Mark, a more spiritual gospel, Clement writes ... read only to those who are being initiated into the great mysteries. This intriguing letter, written long before Eusebius, speaks of a secret mystical tradition without nationalistic borders. That Jesus taught and participated in this tradition is more than likely. So doing, he, in all likelihood, was no slave to regional agendas, rising beyond symbols of relative good and evil, Jew and Gentile, while fiercely opposed to spiritual evil embodied in corrupt priests.

Edited December 30, 2010 by Immortal4life

[Jetsun]

I have heard many rumours about the lost years of Jesus, there is a legend that he came to England and studied with the Druids at Glastonbury Tor, most of the information about the Druids has been lost but when Julius Ceasar came to England he remarked that the Druids had a complete understanding of nature and the seasons and the stars far above anything the Romans had so there is reason to believe they were men of real knowledge. Also I have heard that at that time Buddhism had spread as far as Afghanistan and much of the literature and ideas would have spread down the trade routes so he wouldn't have even had to travel as far as India to be exposed to eastern Mysticism. What is clear though is that many traditions like to claim Jesus as their own, there is barely a religious group in the workd which doesn't suggest some sort of connection with Jesus in some way or another.

[manitou]

First of all, thank you Immortal4life for posting those videos and information. You went to a lot of trouble and it was very nice.

 

After reading the Nag Hammadi a couple times and trying to understand it, it seems to me that the focus of the words and actions of Jesus were more on a "here's how you become awakened" on an individual basis, as opposed to the prevailing structured religions where "only through THIS RELIGION can you become awakened." I also think that the concept of Jesus "saving" people from their sins was an outgrowth of the church injecting fear into the mix as a means of control of the population. After all, fear of hell fires would be very effective as a control tool for unsophisticated minds.

 

The whole thing about the Essenes is very interesting. The timing seems serendipitous that our awareness of this rather shamanic (nature-loving) group is coming to the forefront at this point in time. There could not be a better time for a reawakening of an awareness of how to love the earth, how to love each other, how to share, how to live communally, how to heal each other. Perhaps the Tao is moving in the direction of an Essene-style system throughout the world; seems that the profit motive has taken us about as far down the tube as it can possibly take us. Maybe the Essene model is exactly what we need. Perhaps that will be the default mechanism in place if and when the world economy caves in on itself.

 

The concept of water as a healing force or a changeable force seems to trickle through the story of Jesus, whether at the moment of his baptism by John the Baptist, when he turned water into wine, when he walked on the water after he stepped off the boat, and particularly when he healed the deaf man by spitting on his own fingers and placing the spit in the ears of the deaf man! There's something about water! I can't remember the name of the Japanese scientist (Emoto or something close?) who will utter a beautiful word like 'Love' to the glass of water, then he will freeze the crystals. Then he'll speak an ugly word to another glass of water like 'Hate', and freeze that specimen as well. The difference in the frozen crystals, examined under microscope, over and over bears out the fact that water is a living substance that reacts to our intent. The beautiful word crystals are....well....beautiful. The hateful word crystals are misshapen and out of whack.

 

How could the prevailing temple authorities not be a bit skittish about such knowledge becoming commonplace? After all, that would render the religious structure totally unnecessary. They would lose their statuses as the wise elders. Perhaps they wouldn't be paid at all. Of course they did their best to squash anything that reeked of individual self-realization and pushed the "only through US can you find the kingdom".

 

This discussion has made me want to go back and reread the Dead Sea Scrolls. My eyes are more elevated now than they were the first time I read it.. Actually, now I can't wait....right after I finish Secret of the Golden Flower. (A heavy Tao book, wow.)

[fiveelementtao]

fiveelementtao awesome thread! thank you for this. Its very interesting.

 

The truth is, someone somewhere could make a case that any text thousands of years old is just science fiction or so called bullshit.

 

The Story of Troy comes to mind for me, thought to be only a myth, ancient science fiction....until it was found!

I completely agree Immortal and that is exactly my point. every single new testament scripture as written at least 100 years AFTER christ. the wise Men scripture was dated to the 3rd century so that puts it WELL within the same time frame as any other Jesus scripture. Seeing as how there is ample written record from the church fathers themselves reccomending that all gnostic gospels be destroyed and those who copy or carry them be killed, that makes this gospel even more likely to be authentic since it survived the church purging. I am not saying one way or the other whether this one or any of them are true. In terms of textual criticism, (according to church dogma, no less!) the rule is that the older the extant physical text, the more likely it is to be "authentic." the Nag hamaddi library are the oldest extant christian scriptures, so by the churches own standards, the gnostic gospels of Nag Hammadi are the most reliable and probably closer to the original than the four church gospels. That means my favorite "the gospel of Thomas" (according to the Church standard of authenticity) is more reliable than Matthew. In that text, Jesus had much more in common with taoists, buddhists and hindus than with modern christianity.

I highly reccomend it to anyone.From the gospel of Thomas...

Jesus said, "Keep on seeking until you find. When you find, you will become disturbed. When you become disturbed, you will marvel and reign over all."

Talk about impeccable intent! Edited December 31, 2010 by fiveelementtao

[Starjumper]

Do I think ... ? No I do not.

 

Trying the attach function

[Immortal4life]

The concept of water as a healing force or a changeable force seems to trickle through the story of Jesus,

 

I have been becoming aware of this, and have become interested in this very recently.

 

Recently I have been visiting hot springs. I just love to train martial arts, qi gong and meditation, and then visit the hot springs. Both cold pools, and hot pools. I feel so energized and healthy afterwards. I can feel the energy from the natural minerals and natural water. Its almost like it gives my energy practice a boost. I also am very hungry when I leave the hot springs, probably because my body is still working the whole time to regulate its temperature.

Edited December 30, 2010 by Immortal4life

[Vajrahridaya]

I think what Gurdjieff essentially teaches is the same thing as the Buddha, I think some of his criticisms of Buddhism were stated with the direct purpose to get you to question deeply and sincerely everything and not to become fixed or rest on anything or dogmatic about any position. But it is natural for Buddhism to have become corrupted just like everything else, the example Gurdjieff gives is that he found monasteries where people were locked up in small cells alone for almost their entire lives to meditate and to him this felt completely unnatural and against human nature as well as against the original teachings of "saint Buddha" as he calls him.

 

These are Gurdjieffs projections in my opinion as these beings did the cave retreats willfully out of an intense desire to know their own nature through and through in a way that was appropriate for themselves. None of them are forced to do closed retreat. There are all sorts of direct and clear teachings from the Buddha concerning lay disciples and renunciates. Both are natural, dependent entirely on the capacity of an individual.

 

Also, my point was that Buddhas teachings are less corruptible due to their clarity and how large of a volume of them that exist which are all attributed to the words of the Buddha himself. Not to mention the amount of great Buddhist masters that came after the Buddha.

 

But, of course people will corrupt anything. It's just that there is this unique character concerning the Buddha. He did teach with clarity and he taught for 40 years, non-stop. The Buddhas cannon is vast and clear.

 

Jesus on the other hand and plenty of other great teachers of the past, taught in parables, poetic metaphor and in other such ways which are nice, but open to interpretation. There are also very few teachings directly associated with the other great teachers while there are tons of teachings directly associated with the Buddha himself. This is very unique. The Buddha actually started the religion that we practice. We are actually practicing the Buddhas words and guidelines while Christianity for instance is interpreting the words of Jesus and creating something else entirely, for the most part.

Edited December 30, 2010 by Vajrahridaya

[Vajrahridaya]

Hi Vaj!

 

I hope you are doing and feeling better.

 

I do believe there was a person named jesus, it was a common name afterall.

I am entirely skeptical of a man named jesus that is attributed to have done

miraculous things. All mythology has the appropriate miraculous doings of

said messiah figure. A jesus yes... a jesus that was a messiah? Doubt it.

 

I am not an expert on any of the scripture( dead sea scrolls/ Nag Hammadi)

I claim no information other than is available to all of us equally.

 

The teachings proclaimed to be from a man named jesus, are worthy,

meaningful teachings. Who is to say that they were not adopted from

an earlier philosophy and belief system such as Tao? The philosophy

of Tao and treatment of man within mankind, has precedents that

predate any christian belief system.

 

Teachings that hold "true" are common in most cultures,

the only thing that changes is whom they have been attributed to.

When It's something that feels inherently true inside of

us then it is usually a common thread to most philosophies.

 

Saying that jesus was the one that said these things and imposing the

distinction that somehow he was the originator of this philosophy,

belies an attitude that somehow these were "hidden" truths and it took

jesus to bring them out.

 

I find this idea to be ludicrous.

 

I have more belief in the common man then most I guess. There will always

be ideas that "feel" true to us and speak to us and our heart of hearts.

These ideas speak to us and feel "true" because we inherently feel that

this is the right way to treat someone, or some situation.

 

The ideas and philosophy attributed to all great figures throughout history

lives inside of each of us, and we see the clues of this when we read or hear

something and that light bulb goes off in our minds and it just clicks, and we

say eureka! That eureka moment is your own awareness telling you this is the

most natural and inherently virtuous path, the designation of it being a "truth"

is just a signpost leading us in the right direction.

 

We just have to listen and be who and what we are meant to be.

 

And if the three wise men were Taoists.... maybe they should be the

ones we should be thanking for the wisdom of the jesus figure.

That is IF any of this really happened to begin with....

 

Peace!

 

Ok.

 

Fair enough.

[Immortal4life]

That Buddha taught for 40 years is something I had not considered much, in the case for the superiority of Buddhism.

[Immortal4life]

USA Today- Were the Three Wise Men from China?

http://www.usatoday.com/yourlife/mind-soul/spirituality/2010-12-03-three-wise-men_N.htm?csp=hf

 

Washington, Dec 24 : An ancient rediscovered text called 'Revelation of the Magi' tells a very different version of the Three Wise Men's journey to Bethlehem

http://www.newkerala.com/news/world/fullnews-111758.html

 

So there are tons of news stories about this new discovery that have come out in the last week or so, but does anyone know if the translated text tiself, is available anywhere online? or will be available online in the future?

[Aetherous]

Here is the book which recently came out. I look forward to reading more of it in the next couple of days.

[Vajrahridaya]

That Buddha taught for 40 years is something I had not considered much, in the case for the superiority of Buddhism.

 

Yes, the Buddha taught with clarity and repetition for 40 years (from 40 to 80 years old) the philosophy, the methods and the conclusions that all Buddhists practice with variances dependent upon the individual capacity of the listener.

 

Which is quite unique for any of the religions fire starters. That the religion of Buddhism is actually based directly on what the Buddha taught rather than assuming he meant this or that, like we find with Christianity for instance. Even though there were most definitely some really great Christians, like Meister Eckhart and St. Francis of Assisi, etc. But, even as profound as their teachings were, they still in my opinion don't hold a candle to the level of clarity that the Buddha and subsequent Buddhas taught. As the Buddha taught some really clear internal methods, not just sayings.

 

Most of the methods of the Christian mystics are quite extreme in my opinion, like self whipping and fasting for days and days in order to have a vision of their deity... etc. All things the Buddha did during the start of his journey, but went on to teach a more wholesome middle way. Even though even the Buddha and his monks only ate once a day, he taught very clear teachings for lay disciples as well as monks.

Edited January 3, 2011 by Vajrahridaya

[Starjumper]

Most of the methods of the Christian mystics are quite extreme in my opinion, like self whipping and fasting for days and days in order to have a vision of their deity

.

 

On the other hand,I know some Indians. One medicine man I know did the sun thing where they hang from arrows in their chest for three days with no food and water, he said it was totally psycherdelic and peace. I guess they're even sillier than the Christian mystics of old.

Edited January 3, 2011 by Starjumper7

[Starjumper]

and fasting for a few days is sooo extreme! Those silly Christina mystics, fasting like that.

Edited January 3, 2011 by Starjumper7

[King Kabalabhati]

and fasting for a few days is sooo extreme! Those silly Christina mystics, fasting like that.

 

It's probably been exaggerated, who could commit such brutal self punishment? I mean, no food for days.. and not even chocolate?

[Jetsun]

and fasting for a few days is sooo extreme! Those silly Christina mystics, fasting like that.

 

I think those sorts of extreme practises also are distortions of legitimate practices, for example fasting can be used to break the attachment people have to food as food is tied up to all sorts of powerful emotions and survival anxieties dating back to when you were a child and you were dependent on your mother. Food is also often used as a method of control by your parents and is often deeply tied into some very powerful conditionings, so fasting if done in the right way can be a way of making these things conscious and let go of, that's if you approach it with the right method and intent. Most of this knowledge has been completely lost from Christianity unfortunately and people just do the practises without any sort of consciousness.

[King Kabalabhati]

I think those sorts of extreme practises also are distortions of legitimate practices, for example fasting can be used to break the attachment people have to food as food is tied up to all sorts of powerful emotions and survival anxieties dating back to when you were a child and you were dependent on your mother. Food is also often used as a method of control by your parents and is often deeply tied into some very powerful conditionings, so fasting if done in the right way can be a way of making these things conscious and let go of, that's if you approach it with the right method and intent. Most of this knowledge has been completely lost from Christianity unfortunately and people just do the practises without any sort of consciousness.

 

First and foremost fasting is a way to cleanse the body of toxins.

[goonis38]

First and foremost fasting is a way to cleanse the body of toxins.

 

This is so right... And I have done this myself, it takes a lot of control to eat right. But it is so worth it... I think it is something I am proud of myself for. Doing without, will others are not. Isn't easy, but it was, and is rewarding. And I lost weight...lol

Hugs Mel

[Vajrahridaya]

.

 

On the other hand,I know some Indians. One medicine man I know did the sun thing where they hang from arrows in their chest for three days with no food and water, he said it was totally psycherdelic and peace. I guess they're even sillier than the Christian mystics of old.

 

I've experienced this transcendence, and it can serve a purpose in context, but usually it's for the sake of reifing something or other within a positive kind of grasping.

 

Look at Tibetan monks in caves who only eat dried barley and have to sit in full lotus for months on end, sleep sitting up with absolutely no light in a sealed cave.

 

But it's contextualized with anatman and dependent origination, so even if the experience is the same, the interpretation is different as is the overall result for the most part, is going to be liberating from both higher and lower realms, when most theisms aim at fasting for the sake of higher realms or communing with the "cosmic deity of all."

Edited January 4, 2011 by Vajrahridaya

[Vajrahridaya]

I think those sorts of extreme practises also are distortions of legitimate practices, for example fasting can be used to break the attachment people have to food as food is tied up to all sorts of powerful emotions and survival anxieties dating back to when you were a child and you were dependent on your mother. Food is also often used as a method of control by your parents and is often deeply tied into some very powerful conditionings, so fasting if done in the right way can be a way of making these things conscious and let go of, that's if you approach it with the right method and intent. Most of this knowledge has been completely lost from Christianity unfortunately and people just do the practises without any sort of consciousness.

 

I've done a number of fasts and they were wonderful!