I think I just experienced enlightenment

[三江源]

Ultimately you find out that "yourself" is simply all that exists.

 

That's a whole other conversation.

[TheJourney]

That's a whole other conversation.

 

We have it in our heads that we have to merge with the ultimate or live in line with the ultimate. Really we are the ultimate. I'm not saying that as a parable. I am being very literal. You are the ultimate.

[三江源]

We have it in our heads that we have to merge with the ultimate or live in line with the ultimate. Really we are the ultimate. I'm not saying that as a parable. I am being very literal. You are the ultimate.

 

I am pretty ultimate, yeah, thanks for noticing.

[TheJourney]

I am pretty ultimate, yeah, thanks for noticing.

 

hahaha. I feel quite ultimate as well

[Otis]

perhaps the reason we all think we have the truth is that, because it's always changing, there simply is what is, no person, and we are each just experiencing part of what is. I am this truth. There is no "me" and no "truth", just experiencing what is.

Good, like you are the only blind man with the elephant. As you move around, the elephant keeps changing shape.

[TheJourney]

Good, like you are the only blind man with the elephant. As you move around, the elephant keeps changing shape.

 

Right. But we can never experience "the elaphent" because there is no elephant. There is only this shape.

[Lucky7Strikes]

Ok enlightened one,

 

Can you answer some questions?

 

What is "you"? What am "I"? and What is the "ego"?

[Lucky7Strikes]

Well, ultimately you can only affect me if I let you. I am free, and as long as I am free you only have the power that I give you insomuch as my reality is concerned. So yes, I would love all of you to believe i'm enlightened and count me as someone you desire to learn from. But that is my ego. I know it is my ego. The ego is real. However, I now control my ego, my ego doesn't control me. I pursue what I desire, understanding that it doesn't matter and however it is is perfect.

What do you mean you control the ego...

 

Then what is this "you" doing the controlling?

[TheJourney]

What do you mean you control the ego...

 

Then what is this "you" doing the controlling?

 

There are an infinite amount of egos. None of them are ultimately who we are. We are the ultimate. We are everything that exists. All that exists is the truth. The truth has no real form. Everything is the truth. In this life you are simply learning about what is. What is? The ultimate. What is the ultimate? You.

[Lucky7Strikes]

You are whatever you want to be. Your reality is whatever you want it to be. The moment that you are in, the reality that you have created, is perfect. All that exists is liberation. And because liberation is all that exists, there is no such thing as liberation, because there is nothing to be liberated from.

Again, if you say things like "all that exists is liberation" what are you saying exists? I surely don't know anything called liberation....the moment that I am in? What do you mean? Find me this moment!?

 

If liberation is all that exists...how can anything else exist, such as "I" wanting reality to be something as you say in your post?

 

If it is all that exists, then surely that statement says nothing else can exist...

[TheJourney]

Again, if you say things like "all that exists is liberation" what are you saying exists? I surely don't know anything called liberation....the moment that I am in? What do you mean? Find me this moment!?

 

If liberation is all that exists...how can anything else exist, such as "I" wanting reality to be something as you say in your post?

 

If it is all that exists, then surely that statement says nothing else can exist...

 

Right. You are all that exists. You constantly change. You are experiencing one of those expressions.

Edited December 27, 2010 by TheJourney

[Lucky7Strikes]

There are an infinite amount of egos. None of them are ultimately who we are. We are the ultimate. We are everything that exists. All that exists is the truth. The truth has no real form. Everything is the truth. In this life you are simply learning about what is. What is? The ultimate. What is the ultimate? You.

What is the ultimate...

 

Like everything?

 

Are you saying I am part of the universe? GHAHAHAHHAA...ok...what did you think you weren't part of this universe before...uh...

 

Let's examine your lofty statements again:

 

"All exist is truth, but the truth has no real form." What should I do with this statement. It's like saying there are unicorns but you won't find unicorns. Um...ok...so what you say is quite meaningless..?

 

I am learning about what is?...but "WHAT IS?" how do you learn about what is? This is like saying you are going to learn about...well..WHAT? The ultimate...lets clarify this again. What is the ultimate? Ah ok the Truth. Oh but it has no form. So how do you lean about something without form? Oh wait yes it is also me. So here we have

 

Ultimate = Truth = Me = Formless = ...but it's not ego...AH I SEE! You have aligned yourself with undefined and lofty things like Truth, Ultimate, Formless! So you can control your ego! And justify yourself doing oh so whateverrrrr you please..

 

oh WAIT, what about the ego? So everything is everything except for ego? Huh?

 

Oh Most Honored One, I'm so confused. Help me!

Edited December 27, 2010 by Lucky7Strikes

[Lucky7Strikes]

Right. You are all that exists. You constantly change. You are experiencing one of those expressions.

Does this mean you and I are the same? Surely if YOU are all that exists...and I am all that exists...logically you and I would be the same...

 

Also if we are both constantly changing...

 

Do you mean

 

1) there is something changing IN me,

2) that I AM changing?

3) Or that I AM THE change?

 

I am experiencing...do you mean

 

1) there is I experiencing expression

2) I am the experience of expression itself

3) OH BUT WAIT! I Am all that exists! So how can I experience?

[TheJourney]

lol. that's ok. I have no desire to make you see things any differently than you do.

[Otis]

It doesn't matter though. If falling into the trap is what I want to do, then it's what I should do. I can do whatever I want now. I'm free!

Of course you're free, Journey. You've always been free, as have we all.

 

The only thing which imprisons us, are our ego traps. That is: we have to be willing to walk into the cage and close the door ourselves.

 

I will not pretend to tell you what it is that you experienced, but I can warn you against believing in it too strongly.

 

The very import in what you are talking about: surrendering "truth" and becoming innocent again, is exactly what's compromised if you think that you "get it", if you start believing that you "know the truth about non-truth". Belief is a tool of the ego, to try to shape the world to suit it. Believe that you are enlightened, and you are automatically stuck within that belief. Surrender belief, and you are free.

 

Consider, too, why D.T. Suzuki says "Zen mind is beginner's mind". That is a parallel to the truth that you discovered. "Beginner's mind" is that which re-discovers truth in every moment, rather than holding on to some conceptual truth. But once you try to show people the "truth" about "non-truth", then you are no longer in the realm of non-truth.

 

The "truth about non-truth" gets you on the road, Journey, congratulations. But the road is not glamorous or messianic (nor is it alone; lots of other Tao Bums walk there, I'm sure).

 

Applying "non-truth" to our life-long habits, attachments and avoidances: that's a messy, inglorious, necessary path. The original revelation is important, but living it as a moment-to-moment re-awakening to life; that is where the discovery of freedom really happens.

[三江源]

It would be a common path to take at this point to deny the validity of the concept of the ego, The Journey.

 

You could say it's just a 'meme', then you dont have to deal with ego at all within conversation or logic.. just say PAH , to it.

 

ego, what ego.. it doesnt even exist! show me it!!

 

ah ha, ze fun we haff. it reminds me of undergrad parties.

[TheJourney]

We're all enlightened. There is nothing I have to do. I will do whatever makes me happy.

[Lucky7Strikes]

I will do whatever makes me happy.

You insult all the traditions, practitioners, and masters by claiming yourself to enlightenment in order to justify this very thing.

 

"Now I will do whatever...I love this world too much..I can now control the ego." An ideological justification to stroke your self.

 

Next time you come to the realization of how silly you are right now, please, please do not send out stuff like this. Some idiot may actually believe you.

[TheJourney]

I agree that my truth isn't your truth. Find your truth. I have found mine.

[TheJourney]

It would be a common path to take at this point to deny the validity of the concept of the ego, The Journey.

 

You could say it's just a 'meme', then you dont have to deal with ego at all within conversation or logic.. just say PAH , to it.

 

ego, what ego.. it doesnt even exist! show me it!!

 

ah ha, ze fun we haff. it reminds me of undergrad parties.

 

I don't want to deny the ego. I love this life. I love the things that my ego can experience. I'm not the ego ultimately, but that doesn't mean i'm not gonna have fun with it.

[Lucky7Strikes]

Consider, too, why D.T. Suzuki says "Zen mind is beginner's mind".

Wasn't that the other Suzuki?

[Lucky7Strikes]

I don't want to deny the ego. I love this life. I love the things that my ego can experience. I'm not the ego ultimately, but that doesn't mean i'm not gonna have fun with it.

Your posts are all contradictory in their message and actions. Colored with lofty words: Truth, Universe, Everything.

 

You cannot even answer basic questions. You never cared about the truth or freedom in the first place. A justification, a relief from responsibility was all you were after. I love it, a perfect excuse. You can now go cuddle with the Neo religious, blame it all on the ultimate.

Edited December 27, 2010 by Lucky7Strikes

[Lucky7Strikes]

I agree that my truth isn't your truth. Find your truth. I have found mine.

I agree to close my ears to everything else. I'll only hear what I hear. Now my ears are closed.

 

I agree to blind my eyes to everything else! I'll only see what I see. Now don't ask me to see something else!

 

:lol:

[三江源]

I don't want to deny the ego. I love this life. I love the things that my ego can experience. I'm not the ego ultimately, but that doesn't mean i'm not gonna have fun with it.

 

Great, ego's are for fun.

 

It's when they get elephantine that the furniture gets broken.

 

Thought that's not the right metaphor cos broken furniture isnt that important anyway unless you are too old to sit on the floor and stuff.

[TheJourney]

Great, ego's are for fun.

 

It's when they get elephantine that the furniture gets broken.

 

Thought that's not the right metaphor cos broken furniture isnt that important anyway unless you are too old to sit on the floor and stuff.

 

Exactly. It's so funny. The people who are so close to the truth think that they have to deny their ego. They just have to take that last step and understand that the ego, in it's non-existence, is all that exists. Why deny it? If you choose to that's ok. For me, it's missing out on all that life has to offer. When I thought about becoming a monk doors were closing. Now that I understand the world is mine.