I think I just experienced enlightenment

[TheJourney]

It finally makes sense. There are no holes. It has to be true.(of course there could be details i'm missing, as this is new, but the general idea) The funny thing about it is, as I will say, even though most of you are closer to finding the truth, most of you will probably reject this.

 

Basically all that exists is chaos. It's life. It's all that exists. Chaos is made up of different subjective truths. Perhaps there are infinite subjective truths. Anyways, people start thinking about the truth. Some more than others. You may think you don't know the truth. That is basically the truth, but you don't understand that yet. The seekers are desperate for the truth. Because they believe there is a truth, they are farther from the truth, but they are on their way unlike those who don't care. As you grow spiritually, you continue to think that you have found the truth. The more convinced you are that you have found the truth, the farther you are from the truth. Even if you're closer to finally finding the ultimate truth than those who are unknowingly "closer" than you are. We're all looking for enlightenment. What is enlightenment? Understanding that there is no truth. The buddha said his teachings were a raft to get across the river. Once you cross, there is no need for the raft. Truly buddha was the greatest spiritual teacher that I can think of, but he didn't teach the truth. He tried to get us to the truth, which, as I said, is that there is no truth.

 

I'm so happy. Or content. Or whatever. Now I just have to understand that I can't just tell people and expect them to understand. Some of you may say i'm stuck in my truth. Whatever.

Edited December 26, 2010 by TheJourney

[3bob]

The truth of the life-force is key, beyond thoughts about the life-force.

[ralis]

It finally makes sense. There are no holes. It has to be true.(of course there could be details i'm missing, as this is new, but the general idea) The funny thing about it is, as I will say, even though most of you are closer to finding the truth, most of you will probably reject this.

 

Basically all that exists is chaos. It's life. It's all that exists. Chaos is made up of different subjective truths. Perhaps there are infinite subjective truths. Anyways, people start thinking about the truth. Some more than others. You may think you don't know the truth. That is basically the truth, but you don't understand that yet. The seekers are desperate for the truth. Because they believe there is a truth, they are farther from the truth, but they are on their way unlike those who don't care. As you grow spiritually, you continue to think that you have found the truth. The more convinced you are that you have found the truth, the farther you are from the truth. Even if you're closer to finally finding the ultimate truth than those who are unknowingly "closer" than you are. We're all looking for enlightenment. What is enlightenment? Understanding that there is no truth. The buddha said his teachings were a raft to get across the river. Once you cross, there is no need for the raft. Truly buddha was the greatest spiritual teacher that I can think of, but he didn't teach the truth. He tried to get us to the truth, which, as I said, is that there is no truth.

 

I'm so happy. Or content. Or whatever. Now I just have to understand that I can't just

 

 

Great! Expect a response from our local Buddhist expert soon.

[Komako]

[TheJourney]

lol. i love how people always assume that you're grasping. Makes me smile

[Komako]

That was in response to the local Buddhist expert comment ;-) Sorry if that seems confusing from a Taoist perspective!

 

Bright blessings,

 

koma

[WOOFY]

That is so wonderful to hear because people get caught up in the teaching and can't go past that point is not until you come to the understanding that all states of mind and beliefs are delusional so holding onto concepts and ideas you don't allow yourself to be free, because when you realise it was all allusion and is no difference between a state of Zen and consciousness, and to separate the two being in a is state of Zen or be in a state of deluded mind, thinking the when you learn to be in a state were both these can exists is where the real fun begins, and is no need to meditate to be in Zen and leave it to become conscious thinking if you practice these two separately, and make these things two separate mine states and that's all you have is to separate state of mind so to be in a state of conscious Zen allows you to never lose what you found, then this allows you to use what you've learnt in every moment, and have fun with it, because there is many things you can do with clarity of mind and non-delusional connectivity with thought or so-called reality. This may sound strange if you have yet experienced what I'm saying, that it exists and is so simple once you know and allow yourself to be free from the allusion of mind and the minds concept of reality, because seriously you're on the right path been there done that and master that are ready to go next level, believe me or not learn for yourself? Because when you learn the first part the essence of truth then it frees you to go to the next step that I'm talking about?

 

PS there is a teaching call the essence of truth the matrix that teaches and shows how to do this. All the best on your new-found awakening woofy

Edited December 26, 2010 by WOOFY

[Marblehead]

Hi TheJourney,

 

I am glad you have found contentment.

 

What is the truth? I don't know. Oh, sure, I have many opinions and I offer my understanding freely. Sure, I can offer scientific truths. But then, they are only understandings as well, aren't they?

 

But yes, once we can stop searching for the truth we have more time to just live.

 

Enjoy your journey.

[Lucky7Strikes]

It finally makes sense. There are no holes. It has to be true.(of course there could be details i'm missing, as this is new, but the general idea) The funny thing about it is, as I will say, even though most of you are closer to finding the truth, most of you will probably reject this.

 

Basically all that exists is chaos. It's life. It's all that exists. Chaos is made up of different subjective truths. Perhaps there are infinite subjective truths. Anyways, people start thinking about the truth. Some more than others. You may think you don't know the truth. That is basically the truth, but you don't understand that yet. The seekers are desperate for the truth. Because they believe there is a truth, they are farther from the truth, but they are on their way unlike those who don't care. As you grow spiritually, you continue to think that you have found the truth. The more convinced you are that you have found the truth, the farther you are from the truth. Even if you're closer to finally finding the ultimate truth than those who are unknowingly "closer" than you are. We're all looking for enlightenment. What is enlightenment? Understanding that there is no truth. The buddha said his teachings were a raft to get across the river. Once you cross, there is no need for the raft. Truly buddha was the greatest spiritual teacher that I can think of, but he didn't teach the truth. He tried to get us to the truth, which, as I said, is that there is no truth.

 

I'm so happy. Or content. Or whatever. Now I just have to understand that I can't just tell people and expect them to understand. Some of you may say i'm stuck in my truth. Whatever.

What is life? What is chaos? What does it mean for chaos to be the only thing that exists? What are subjective truths? Beliefs? What are beliefs? Who are beliefs held by?

 

You suppose "all seekers" are seeking the truth. Why do you suppose that? It seems like you suppose that so that you can impose it on others and stroke your own ego...a new egotism..."oh, I'm not like them." The mind searches for truths at times to feel superior to "others" being wrong and you being right. Such an easy ego trip!

 

I think you have the right idea, but the certainty that there is no truth can also be seen as a truth. Yes yes, your idea is against this, but the view that dissolves itself is the precise purpose of the view. So one should investigate the tendency in yourself to suppose something, to say "ah, I think I get it, I think I understand!." Anyways, your manner here does not reflect the content of the words...at least in my perspective.

 

I just don't think you have explored enough, but of course I could be wrong. Seems like you are too caught up in idea play. No one needs to approve or reject anything you write in the first place. It's about your experiential development and I don't think you have delved deep into your own "truth" even as you word them here. Don't just play word puzzles, delve deeper into their origin!

Edited December 26, 2010 by Lucky7Strikes

[Lucky7Strikes]

lol. i love how people always assume that you're grasping. Makes me smile

See, you just sound like an arrogant prick "oh so smarter than others."

 

Now I'm definitely sure you are not enlightened. Because 1) you condescend. 2) you condescend if you see ego, personality, or self of others. 3) if you see the inherency of "others" then you are not enlightened.

 

 

Reality is a combination of time and space. Matter represents the space, Waves represent the time. Any given moment in time there is motion. Motions involves going from "point a" to "point b." Well, what if all of this is simply the result of a motion of a wave. Time, how the wave is measured, traveled distance, meaning traveling space, merging the two together and creating our reality.

 

and what if our whole existence is simply one moment and for every moment of a life there is a whole separate reality. That is one soul. All of that exists for every soul. Each soul is a separate consciousness with whole other options for how all of the realities will be.

You wrote the above yesterday. So much for no truths. I think your ideas are great. But how much do you truly believe them?

 

Mere ideas. Nothing much to do with enlightenment...or "whatever."

Edited December 27, 2010 by Lucky7Strikes

[Capital]

I wonder what characteristics one would find in an enlightened individual.

 

I've never met one, that I've known of. I wonder if they would seem extraordinarily kind or utterly blunt. I wonder if they would move and act with complete control or whether every moment would be new to them. I wonder if murder, rape, and other such horrors would be still seem as negative, or simply neutral.

 

I love music, and I love sounds, but I don't like words too much. They are so very arbitrary, yet so confined.

Edited December 27, 2010 by Capital

[TheJourney]

See, you just sound like an arrogant prick "oh so smarter than others."

 

Now I'm definitely sure you are not enlightened. Because 1) you condescend. 2) you condescend if you see ego, personality, or self of others. 3) if you see the inherency of "others" then you are not enlightened.

 

 

I'm not smarter than anyone. Sorry if it came across as condescending. It makes me smile because buddhists and taoists and the like, the people who are so close to the truth, because they're so disillusioned by thinking "buddhism" or "taoism" are the truth that they repeat what they think it teaches is the truth. Whenever anyone says anything on these types of forum, everyone jumps in and says "yes but you are grasping to this truth. Ultimately there is nothing to grasp to. Your words show you don't understand." It makes me smile. Not in a derogatory way, in an amused way at seeing human interaction and understanding in all of it's beauty.

 

You wrote the above yesterday. So much for no truths. I think your ideas are great. But how much do you truly believe them?

 

Mere ideas. Nothing much to do with enlightenment...or "whatever."

 

I said it was a theory. A very interesting theory, and one that explains a lot. I never said it was anymore true than any other one's truth. I'm not here to put myself above anybody. I'm not here to convince anyone of anything. If you are interested in my ideas, great! I would love to discuss them with you. If you think i'm crazy, that's ok too. Everyone is on their journey. All truths are equal in their truth yet lack of ultimate validity. We have an eternity to understand. There's no rush. Be happy with wherever you are. There's nothing you need to do. Enjoy life. That is all you should do.

Edited December 27, 2010 by TheJourney

[WOOFY]

Hi TheJourney,

 

I am glad you have found contentment.

 

What is the truth? I don't know. Oh, sure, I have many opinions and I offer my understanding freely. Sure, I can offer scientific truths. But then, they are only understandings as well, aren't they?

 

But yes, once we can stop searching for the truth we have more time to just live.

 

Enjoy your journey.

truth is that is no true truth there is the essence of truth so if you get caught up in quantifying what is the truth? You become like a dog chasing its tail?

 

So what is Enlightenment freedom from delusional mind and suffering?

So if you not seeking quantifiable so-called truth that you label, it frees your mind from judgement question in quantifying

[TheJourney]

I wonder what characteristics one would find in an enlightened individual.

 

I've never met one, that I've known of. I wonder if they would seem extraordinarily kind or utterly blunt. I wonder if they would move and act with complete control or whether every moment would be new to them. I wonder if murder, rape, and other such horrors would be still seem as negative, or simply neutral.

 

I love music, and I love sounds, but I don't like words too much. They are so very arbitrary, yet so confined.

 

People's ideas of enlightenment are that once you become enlightened you become a robot. This is not true. If there is only one right way of acting, and once you become enlightened you must act that way, you are imprisoned. To be enlightened is to be free. There is no truth I have to chase after or live by. I can truly be free. It's the most wonderful feeling.

[WOOFY]

People's ideas of enlightenment are that once you become enlightened you become a robot. This is not true. If there is only one right way of acting, and once you become enlightened you must act that way, you are imprisoned. To be enlightened is to be free. There is no truth I have to chase after or live by. I can truly be free. It's the most wonderful feeling.

I do understand what you're saying, but if you believe enlightenment is only a divine state and nothing else can exist, your only quantifying your understanding of enlightenment from some teaching or from someone who is only looking at one aspect of it you found one part don't close your eyes now regardless people think you're starting to understand?

 

You may say it's like looking at only one side of the coin you think you see all there is to see , and know about the coin not until you turn the coin over then you see either new side, something new is there that previously you thought didn't exist?

Edited December 27, 2010 by WOOFY

[ShaktiMama]

Good on you.

 

 

Now the journey really begins.

 

s

[Vajrahridaya]

It finally makes sense. There are no holes. It has to be true.(of course there could be details i'm missing, as this is new, but the general idea) The funny thing about it is, as I will say, even though most of you are closer to finding the truth, most of you will probably reject this.

 

Basically all that exists is chaos. It's life. It's all that exists. Chaos is made up of different subjective truths. Perhaps there are infinite subjective truths. Anyways, people start thinking about the truth. Some more than others. You may think you don't know the truth. That is basically the truth, but you don't understand that yet. The seekers are desperate for the truth. Because they believe there is a truth, they are farther from the truth, but they are on their way unlike those who don't care. As you grow spiritually, you continue to think that you have found the truth. The more convinced you are that you have found the truth, the farther you are from the truth. Even if you're closer to finally finding the ultimate truth than those who are unknowingly "closer" than you are. We're all looking for enlightenment. What is enlightenment? Understanding that there is no truth. The buddha said his teachings were a raft to get across the river. Once you cross, there is no need for the raft. Truly buddha was the greatest spiritual teacher that I can think of, but he didn't teach the truth. He tried to get us to the truth, which, as I said, is that there is no truth.

 

I'm so happy. Or content. Or whatever. Now I just have to understand that I can't just tell people and expect them to understand. Some of you may say i'm stuck in my truth. Whatever.

 

 

That's excellent, you had an experience of emptiness!

 

Now, you need to focus more on what dependent origination means, as it not only means emptiness.

 

But yeah... thats wonderful! I don't reject this at all!

 

There is no ultimate truth!! That's the ultimate truth...

[Vajrahridaya]

People's ideas of enlightenment are that once you become enlightened you become a robot. This is not true. If there is only one right way of acting, and once you become enlightened you must act that way, you are imprisoned. To be enlightened is to be free. There is no truth I have to chase after or live by. I can truly be free. It's the most wonderful feeling.

 

True, but there is still ahimsa! Even if acting like a wild man... there is still ahimsa.

 

Even if people don't get it at first. Kind of like Trungpa. Who plenty write of as merely an alcoholic. But, there was much, much more and much deeper to him than any of that surface stuff that allowed him to find his way into the hearts of many in the West.

[TheJourney]

Think about it. Another word for nirvana or enlightenment is liberation. Liberation means free. Seriously think about this. How else could you be free? If there were a truth, then there would be a goodness within that truth that we would have to strive for. This would limit our freedom, as we moved farther and farther away with the ultimate truth. The only way you can be truly free is if there is no truth.

[Vajrahridaya]

Think about it. Another word for nirvana or enlightenment is liberation. Liberation means free. Seriously think about this. How else could you be free? If there were a truth, then there would be a goodness within that truth that we would have to strive for. This would limit our freedom, as we moved farther and farther away with the ultimate truth. The only way you can be truly free is if there is no truth.

 

Part of a poem I wrote many years ago...

Edited December 27, 2010 by Vajrahridaya

[Vajrahridaya]

Now its the simple things in life which reflect my unhidden inner treasure.

Unbidden are loves spontaneous surges that well up from inside

when I glance at the luminous moon high above in the twinkling night sky.

Or the sweet playfull laugh of a child in his mothers' arms,

this laugh that's without reason but with rhyme,

on time with the pulse and rhythm of life's eternal throb.

Or when watching the suns light falling through a collage of colorful leaves in autumn

during a walk in mentally stilled silence, the boundless joy can be staggering.

 

.....

 

This joy that is free and based on the nature of existence

and not this coming and going merry go round of life's myriad shapes and sizes.

Its this inner serenity that I take flight in when unasked for beauty touches my senses,

and since there is no grasping for or task towards,

all that I experience is pure love in essence on display in glorious manifestation.

And this is the pulse that I dance to as I skip to each moments passing.

 

by-

 

JRM. (vajrahridaya)

 

A part of a longer poem called "Change of Heart"

Edited December 27, 2010 by Vajrahridaya

[TheJourney]

Nice I liked that. Well done!

[Lucky7Strikes]

I'm not smarter than anyone. Sorry if it came across as condescending. It makes me smile because buddhists and taoists and the like, the people who are so close to the truth, because they're so disillusioned by thinking "buddhism" or "taoism" are the truth that they repeat what they think it teaches is the truth. Whenever anyone says anything on these types of forum, everyone jumps in and says "yes but you are grasping to this truth. Ultimately there is nothing to grasp to. Your words show you don't understand." It makes me smile. Not in a derogatory way, in an amused way at seeing human interaction and understanding in all of it's beauty.

Again....

 

Bunch of "they think this"...but I don't...

 

I think you've established your theory on the basis of the disillusionment of others?

 

I said it was a theory. A very interesting theory, and one that explains a lot. I never said it was anymore true than any other one's truth. I'm not here to put myself above anybody. I'm not here to convince anyone of anything. If you are interested in my ideas, great! I would love to discuss them with you. If you think i'm crazy, that's ok too. Everyone is on their journey. All truths are equal in their truth yet lack of ultimate validity. We have an eternity to understand. There's no rush. Be happy with wherever you are. There's nothing you need to do. Enjoy life. That is all you should do.

It wouldn't explain anything if it is truly not anymore true than others. You wouldn't title this "I just experienced enlightenment"... Why should I be interested in your ideas if they won't be "true" anyway?

 

We have an eternity to understand what? Your truth that there is no truth? Everyone is on a journey to where? To your end?

 

Sewn into your post are signs of spiritual arrogance...of what people "should" do....

Edited December 27, 2010 by Lucky7Strikes

[TheJourney]

ok man. I'm just arrogant. Now you can continue on your path in peace

[Lucky7Strikes]

ok man. I'm just arrogant. Now you can continue on your path in peace

Prick.

 

I hope you had the satisfaction of feeling superior and at peace taking the better road!