Cultural social differences.

[Everything]

Hey guys,

 

I'm making this topic, because I think it is important to understand how cultural differences can limit you in your social developement. I my self have witnessed this alot in my life and social circles.

 

When I was a kid, I've always found the chinese ways to be extremely mysterious, as if alien in a way. They were those mysterious old wise men. When I looked at american movies, I often saw cool guys who were more masculine to the eye, because I grew up in a society where these kind of cultures were cool and valued more. I live in a pretty multi cultural society. So I've known alot of multi-cultural people, but... There is still a cultural background for each person, because their family might not be so multi-cultural.

 

Now, I was hoping to find asian people here or perhaps someone who knows another person with a firm asian background. Perhaps in these forums we're more familiar with the cultural diffrence between asian and american cultures, since Tao Te Ching is essentially an asian text, not?

 

Let me give an example:

In asia I know that it might be considered rude when looking others in the eye or touching them, while in america that would be seen as a sign of low confidence. I'm not here to judge which way is better, because I haven't got a clue. But you're free to give a comment if you think you know the answer to that one. I'm simply interested in how this might work out for personal developement, since we should be able to cope with all cultures to prevent wars. Cultural wars are still the biggest threat on earth. And alot of the time when people can't hold eye contact while speaking or taking orders, it means they are not ready to jump in the fire for the right cause. This is known by leaders of firefighters. Not touching another person may also kill sexual attraction between those two people, ALOT! Physical escalation is one of keys to create sexual attraction between the partners. It seems very dull to take that away. Is it for the better or for worse to have such a cultural limitation? Dancing, physical games, physical teasing, all may seem innocent, but they provoke alot of sexual activity. This is why it may be positive to have little physical contact, unless you arive at one of the two extremes of fighting/surviving or loving/reproducing. I don't know which one is better....

 

What say does Tao Te Ching have in all of this?

Edited December 26, 2010 by Everything

[Non]

Hey guys,

 

I'm making this topic, because I think it is important to understand how cultural differences can limit you in your social developement. I my self have witnessed this alot in my life and social circles.

 

When I was a kid, I've always found the chinese ways to be extremely mysterious, as if alien in a way. They were those mysterious old wise men. When I looked at american movies, I often saw cool guys who were more masculine to the eye, because I grew up in a society where these kind of cultures were cool and valued more. I live in a pretty multi cultural society. So I've known alot of multi-cultural people, but... There is still a cultural background for each person, because their family might not be so multi-cultural.

 

Now, I was hoping to find asian people here or perhaps someone who knows another person with a firm asian background. Perhaps in these forums we're more familiar with the cultural diffrence between asian and american cultures, since Tao Te Ching is essentially an asian text, not?

 

Let me give an example:

In asia I know that it might be considered rude when looking others in the eye or touching them, while in america that would be seen as a sign of low confidence. I'm not here to judge which way is better, because I haven't got a clue. But you're free to give a comment if you think you know the answer to that one. I'm simply interested in how this might work out for personal developement, since we should be able to cope with all cultures to prevent wars. Cultural wars are still the biggest threat on earth. And alot of the time when people can't hold eye contact while speaking or taking orders, it means they are not ready to jump in the fire for the right cause. This is known by leaders of firefighters. Not touching another person may also kill sexual attraction between those two people, ALOT! Physical escalation is one of keys to create sexual attraction between the partners. It seems very dull to take that away. Is it for the better or for worse to have such a cultural limitation? Dancing, physical games, physical teasing, all may seem innocent, but they provoke alot of sexual activity. This is why it may be positive to have little physical contact, unless you arive at one of the two extremes of fighting/surviving or loving/reproducing. I don't know which one is better....

 

What say does Tao Te Ching have in all of this?

 

As to the touching aspect I can definately agree. I grew up very much influenced by the idea of being really courteous to women, and limiting ALL forms of contact out of respect for women. I never teased them, was always nice, etc. What did I get? Well all the people who did tease and touch who could also be considered "jerks" because they did not care about respecting a woman but went so far as to coax and dominate a woman sexually, got women to feel unconsciously sexually attracted to them. And I got nothing. Still haven't.

 

But also, women can put you down for making the slightest bit of interest even if friendly as morally wrong simply because you're not physically attractive, and leaving men thinking they could have been committing a crime.

 

As to other aspects...

 

Well it's also not helpful when you're an "alternative thinker" in a society so that you're forced to live in isolation because the majority of the people would make fun of you or ridicule you or misunderstand what you're doing. That and even the structures themselves of ssociety can be limiting. Lack of available resources, the economy, the ecology, to practice whatever "alternative thought-form" practice you want to practice also, etc.

 

Sure a lot of people have gotten off just where they live just "fine", well that may be subjective.

Edited December 26, 2010 by Non

[Sloppy Zhang]

Many cultural developments had historical reasons for doing so, some of them going back a long time. So while the FORMS of certain habits might be different, their underlying aspects are not. So the way in which you show respect for someone might be different, but showing respect for someone is still universal.

 

I have a friend who is very touchy. I was not raised to be touchy, and to mind peoples' personal space. So when he gets all touchy, hugging, or being rough or wrestling around, I'm like, dude, chill. And he's like, "why do you not like me man?" So, you know, you just gotta work things out as they come along.

 

I also studied as a foreign exchange student in Japan, and lived with a Japanese family. Yeah, some of the processes and ways of doing things were different. But many things were still very much the same- wake up, go to school/work, come home, spend time with family/friends on holidays, go places and have fun, etc etc. The shapes they took were, in some cases, different, but the elements were still there.

 

As to contact and killing sexual attraction.... I don't think so. Even in Japan guys and girls still had ways of getting physical. It just wasn't flaunted out in public (as much, as younger generations are coming up with their own ways of doing things in some areas). So just because you don't see a guy an a girl walking down the street holding hands, or making out, or walking in on people having sex in an airplane, doesn't mean it's not happening.

 

There are lots of ways to boost sexual attraction even without physical contact. The words you use, glances, social cues, can send messages. If you get a series of one word responses from a guy/girl, that's probably a clue they don't want to talk to you at the moment, and if it continues, maybe try talking to someone else. But if you ask someone how they're doing and they wind up telling you what their most exciting summer vacation was, well maybe that's a sign that moving in a little closer would be okay

 

It's a two way street. Regardless of whatever cultural norms there are, people DO have a "sixth sense" that they rely on frequently, whether consciously or not. Most people can tell if you are being a genuine person. Most people can tell if you are genuinely sorry if you make a cultural faux pas. Most people can tell if you are a happy person who is comfortable in who they are, and is willing to make a genuine effort to get to know them and interact with them. If you seem shifty, overly nervous, secretly resentful, or self sabotaging (consciously or not) then they are less likely to, well, "put up with you".

[Enishi]

Honestly speaking, although these types of things tend to be very contextual, I think some cultures are just plain better overall at allowing for a flourishing of compassion and spiritual awareness. The emphasis on free speech in America (although it is currently being eroded and watered down) is good for allowing some traditions to have a voice, but in other respects I think American culture is utterly vile. I want to leave it behind and never look back, lol.

 

In terms of developing positive chi and other social skills, yeah it can help you with women and people in general (it's currently helping me more than expected), but some people are still just not going to like you due to very different personalities and various cultural factors. Advanced spiritual practitioners with tons of positive energy have suffered at the hand of both the common man and elite controllers all throughout history.

Edited December 27, 2010 by Enishi

[Sloppy Zhang]

Honestly speaking, although these types of things tend to be very contextual, I think some cultures are just plain better overall at allowing for a flourishing of compassion and spiritual awareness. The emphasis on free speech in America (although it is currently being eroded and watered down) is good for allowing some traditions to have a voice, but in other respects I think American culture is utterly vile. I want to leave it behind and never look back, lol.

 

In terms of developing positive chi and other social skills, yeah it can help you with women and people in general (it's currently helping me more than expected), but some people are still just not going to like you due to very different personalities and various cultural factors. Advanced spiritual practitioners with tons of positive energy have suffered at the hand of both the common man and elite controllers all throughout history.

 

Bold mine.

 

Some people you are just not going to get along with. Despite your best efforts. Sometimes you are just not going to like someone for no discernible reason. Sometimes working on it doesn't help, so sometimes you just gotta let it go.

[Everything]

Bold mine.

 

Some people you are just not going to get along with. Despite your best efforts. Sometimes you are just not going to like someone for no discernible reason. Sometimes working on it doesn't help, so sometimes you just gotta let it go.

This is true, if the person of cultural diffrence is not a potential friend. But a potential friend with cultural diffrences is very valuable in my eyes. I have not gave up on them in the past and the rewards were huge. I've had so much fun with these guys, just gotta learn to understand their culture. Ofcourse there are people in our lifes that require more effort on our parts to have a good healthy relationship with. Those would neither be good close friendship material without the cultural diffrences.

 

Plus, the new friend just opened you to a whole new culture of friends. Some people still think that certain cultures are just better then others, like the culture of geeks/nerds versus the culture of soldiers/marines. The culture of nerds has got as many couragious action-prone people as soldiers got caring nurturers. You just have to find them. It can be hard to identify diffrent cultures quickly, but it pays to be discriminating when it comes to this. Perhaps this is where discrimination has been useful in our evolutionary past.

 

PS thanks for the posts

Edited December 27, 2010 by Everything

[Sloppy Zhang]

This is true, if the person of cultural diffrence is not a potential friend. But a potential friend with cultural diffrences is very valuable in my eyes. I have not gave up on them in the past and the rewards were huge. I've had so much fun with these guys, just gotta learn to understand their culture. Ofcourse there are people in our lifes that require more effort on our parts to have a good healthy relationship with. Those would neither be good close friendship material without the cultural diffrences.

 

Plus, the new friend just opened you to a whole new culture of friends. Some people still think that certain cultures are just better then others, like the culture of geeks/nerds versus the culture of soldiers/marines. The culture of nerds has got as many couragious action-prone people as soldiers got caring nurturers. You just have to find them. It can be hard to identify diffrent cultures quickly, but it pays to be discriminating when it comes to this. Perhaps this is where discrimination has been useful in our evolutionary past.

 

PS thanks for the posts

 

I was stepping outside the whole cultural discussion for a bit Even if you're from the same culture, sometimes you just rub people the wrong way, or they rub you the wrong way, and there's just no compatibility, even if there's no discernible reason!

 

Not saying don't try, I'm just saying, pick your battles!

[z00se]

Many cultural developments had historical reasons for doing so, some of them going back a long time. So while the FORMS of certain habits might be different, their underlying aspects are not. So the way in which you show respect for someone might be different, but showing respect for someone is still universal.

 

 

A simple example similar to Sloppy Zhang's personal space thing. In Australia i don't stand close to people because it makes people feel uncomfortable. In china people stand close to each other because they are used to that. There are so many people. In trains subways and busses everyone is crammed in like sardines. They line up and push in lines. Thats how they do it.

 

In Australia it's a sign of respect if you use people's names. In china to use someones name who is older than you is disrespectful. You must call them older sister, older brother etc. This is to the shop clerk or anyone. To say your fathers name is super disrespectful and will make them very angry.

 

Where most people in western society have more than enough, to give someone the last bit of drink in your drink bottle... we call it the 'dregs' is like a put down - you should get them a fresh one or something. But in china to give someone the last bit of coke or wine or anything, like the last mouthful is a sign of respect and kindness. Giving the last bit to somebody to show your respect is done very commonly.

[Everything]

A simple example similar to Sloppy Zhang's personal space thing. In Australia i don't stand close to people because it makes people feel uncomfortable. In china people stand close to each other because they are used to that. There are so many people. In trains subways and busses everyone is crammed in like sardines. They line up and push in lines. Thats how they do it.

 

In Australia it's a sign of respect if you use people's names. In china to use someones name who is older than you is disrespectful. You must call them older sister, older brother etc. This is to the shop clerk or anyone. To say your fathers name is super disrespectful and will make them very angry.

 

Where most people in western society have more than enough, to give someone the last bit of drink in your drink bottle... we call it the 'dregs' is like a put down - you should get them a fresh one or something. But in china to give someone the last bit of coke or wine or anything, like the last mouthful is a sign of respect and kindness. Giving the last bit to somebody to show your respect is done very commonly.

 

Cool stuff, I can relate to that.

The thing about naming fathers I hae grokked for a while now. Calling your biological father by its name seems very disrespectful. But when it comes to your most valued father figures, it is strange to call them father... In turkey people call strangers "uncle" when they respect him. But then again, they truely respect all father figures. In the western culture, we may find some very mature inspiring father-figures and we don't even call those "uncle." Dr. Wayne Dyer is like the father no one had, for many people. They call him "the father of inspiration." Instead of "uncle." Actually, they call him Dr. Wayne Dyer and not even father. People in western cultures are so afraid of the father figure, they even discard them as violent often. They blame all the wars on them. People find it uncomfortable to be an father to someone, an older brother or uncle. Atleast this is seen more often in western cultures. While in other cultures, father figures are more important and more respected.

In western cultures you do have gangs where people call eachother "bro" as in brother. This is also a sign of respect to the masculine, but in a more childish way and it clearly shows a lack of father figures. Something that must be adressed by Captain Hindsight!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cY_oKve-bH0

Edited December 27, 2010 by Everything

[manitou]

I think American culture is utterly vile.

 

Oh my god, I totally agree with this. The profit motive has taken us about as far as we can go in one direction. We have to swing back....

[suninmyeyes]

Cool stuff, I can relate to that.

The thing about naming fathers I hae grokked for a while now. Calling your biological father by its name seems very disrespectful. But when it comes to your most valued father figures, it is strange to call them father... In turkey people call strangers "uncle" when they respect him. But then again, they truely respect all father figures. In the western culture, we may find some very mature inspiring father-figures and we don't even call those "uncle." Dr. Wayne Dyer is like the father no one had, for many people. They call him "the father of inspiration." Instead of "uncle." Actually, they call him Dr. Wayne Dyer and not even father. People in western cultures are so afraid of the father figure, they even discard them as violent often. They blame all the wars on them. People find it uncomfortable to be an father to someone, an older brother or uncle. Atleast this is seen more often in western cultures. While in other cultures, father figures are more important and more respected.

In western cultures you do have gangs where people call eachother "bro" as in brother. This is also a sign of respect to the masculine, but in a more childish way and it clearly shows a lack of father figures. Something that must be adressed by Captain Hindsight!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cY_oKve-bH0

This may all be becouse a lot of western cultures are not as patriachal as some meditereanian,middle eastern ,eastern and etc cultures.

And thanks God for that!

What a breath of fresh air when I started travelling in my late teens.

I couldnt believe how cool and more open minded are general outlooks of people in Netherlands or UK or Denmark..For example how fresh and respectful UK guys attitudes toward women in general are in comparison.These guys rock in my opinion.

But yes,it is very intersting to note the cultular differences and yes there are so many.As well as learning a formal language you have to learn "informal"language of more subtle expression what to say when ,how to say it,what not to say as you would be misunderstood -in order to convey message accuratly.Becouse different rules apply to different countries.I always think that countries are like different persons in a way.

[Otis]

Cultural wars are still the biggest threat on earth. And alot of the time when people can't hold eye contact while speaking or taking orders, it means they are not ready to jump in the fire for the right cause. This is known by leaders of firefighters. Not touching another person may also kill sexual attraction between those two people, ALOT!

I think a lot of the tension between Islam and the West has to do with how we relate to our women in the respective cultures. In the west, we sell everything with sexuality, and we even sexualize our young girls. In Islam, of course, the female body is to be hid away from everyone but the husband and other women. Of course our culture seems like a threat to Islam, because it turns this very central (and rhetorically holy) relationship and turns it into exploitive commerce.

[Everything]

This may all be becouse a lot of western cultures are not as patriachal as some meditereanian,middle eastern ,eastern and etc cultures.

And thanks God for that!

What a breath of fresh air when I started travelling in my late teens.

I couldnt believe how cool and more open minded are general outlooks of people in Netherlands or UK or Denmark..For example how fresh and respectful UK guys attitudes toward women in general are in comparison.These guys rock in my opinion.

But yes,it is very intersting to note the cultular differences and yes there are so many.As well as learning a formal language you have to learn "informal"language of more subtle expression what to say when ,how to say it,what not to say as you would be misunderstood -in order to convey message accuratly.Becouse different rules apply to different countries.I always think that countries are like different persons in a way.

The borders/identity of a cell, person, family, group of people, company, country, continent, planet, sun-system, star-system, galaxy system, universe are all the same indeed. In a way that they all operate in a similar way, since we're all connected, we have this in relation to eachother. I love to see my self as a country with borders, trading psychological units of love intellect and freedom with the outside world.

[Everything]

I think a lot of the tension between Islam and the West has to do with how we relate to our women in the respective cultures. In the west, we sell everything with sexuality, and we even sexualize our young girls. In Islam, of course, the female body is to be hid away from everyone but the husband and other women. Of course our culture seems like a threat to Islam, because it turns this very central (and rhetorically holy) relationship and turns it into exploitive commerce.

I must admit, I'm spoiled in this way when seen from the perspective of the islam. I grew up with beautiful women wearing skirts, dancers showing their bodies move for money, etc. But I've also seen men do exactly the same thing for women. These days, more and more women are coming up and demanding males to be their sex toys. I have no understanding of how these laws of the sexes work exactly, it is so personal for each individual. I see an extreme growth in the sex industry, because sex sells the biggest of all. Wether it is parfume, cars, clothes, house hold items, games, movies, SEX SELLS. I have seen year by year how commercials use sex as its core for pursuasion that it is almost funny. Like those AXE deo commercials for men.

 

Especially the japanase culture of sex is SO STRANGE!!!! They must have little feet, and be childish... Where are the mature women in japan? The first time I heard about it was from my friends on a younger age. They talked about anime porn and accused eachother of watching it, bla bla. I checked it out and these are cartoons but porn. So there are no limitations here, anything is possible. Wether it is monsters doing with girls, 2 little boys, violence and blood, rape, pedophiles, animals, brother sister, son mother. They create new sexual fantasies that are not possible to be realized in real life, so that the customers are forced in a way to buy more of their products to satisfie their newly acquired fantasies. They are moving away from reality and the real world. They forget how wonderful real love can be.