TheJourney Posted December 27, 2010 Don't grasp at a truth. If there's a truth, then there must be "goodness" within that truth. Therefore there must be morals to live by. Therefore there is a certain way of acting. This is imprisonment! Enlightenment is liberation. Liberation means freedom. How else could be free, unless there was no truth!? It is the only way. The truth is within you. Just think. Truth is what imprisons us. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lucky7Strikes Posted December 27, 2010 (edited) Don't grasp at a truth. If there's a truth, then there must be "goodness" within that truth. Therefore there must be morals to live by. Therefore there is a certain way of acting. This is imprisonment! Enlightenment is liberation. Liberation means freedom. How else could be free, unless there was no truth!? It is the only way. The truth is within you. Just think. Truth is what imprisons us. Ugh... Now on to liberate other people... Edited December 27, 2010 by Lucky7Strikes Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TheJourney Posted December 27, 2010 Ugh... Now on to liberate other people... I couldn't possibly liberate someone. You can only liberate yourself, if you're ready and it's your desire. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lucky7Strikes Posted December 27, 2010 (edited) Then why this thread? Why not just shut up if you can't do it? Preaching..."free yourself!".. Edited December 27, 2010 by Lucky7Strikes Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TheJourney Posted December 27, 2010 Then why this thread? Why not just shut up if you can't do it? Because I can help. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lucky7Strikes Posted December 27, 2010 (edited) Because I can help. Help yourself . I'm sorry, I'm just poking fun at you . Hope you delve deeper into your practice. P.S. Please don't think you are enlightened, because you don't know either way. A Zen master would've probably beaten you to a pulp, or thrown you down three stories. . Edited December 27, 2010 by Lucky7Strikes Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
fizix Posted December 27, 2010 I always get a a pitiful sense of amusement seeing these "I'm enlightened!" threads. Great example as to how you don't want to think. If you think you are enlightened, you are not enlightened. If you think you could EVER reach enlightenment and somehow be aware of it, you will never be enlightened. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TheJourney Posted December 27, 2010 I always get a a pitiful sense of amusement seeing these "I'm enlightened!" threads. Great example as to how you don't want to think. If you think you are enlightened, you are not enlightened. If you think you could EVER reach enlightenment and somehow be aware of it, you will never be enlightened. I am enlightened. We're all enlightened. The only difference between me and some others is that I realize that i'm liberated and I understand what that means. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
fizix Posted December 27, 2010 I am enlightened. We're all enlightened. The only difference between me and some others is that I realize that i'm liberated and I understand what that means. Oh, we're all enlightened now are we? What wise words from the enlightened 16 year old who had his first epiphany. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TheJourney Posted December 27, 2010 Oh, we're all enlightened now are we? What wise words from the enlightened 16 year old who had his first epiphany. Maybe it's not your truth. That's ok. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Aaron Posted December 27, 2010 We are not all enlightened. Enlightenment exists only in the minds of men, there is no real enlightenment, it's a construct, just as good and bad are constructs. The value that they have is based solely on the person who places value in it. With that said, if you value the knowledge you've gained, I applaud you, but I would also remind you that no one likes a know it all. Perhaps if you can begin to understand how your actions are effecting others, you can reach an even deeper understanding of the truth. With that said, very few people will be able to get everyone to like them, but I think those people closest to the Tao have a natural way of living that attracts others to them. I would suggest that if you really wish to reach enlightenment, then you should focus first on understanding what not being enlightened is and then realize that neither of them have any meaning whatsoever, except for the meaning you give them. Aaron Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TheJourney Posted December 27, 2010 We are not all enlightened. Enlightenment exists only in the minds of men, there is no real enlightenment, it's a construct, just as good and bad are constructs. The value that they have is based solely on the person who places value in it. With that said, if you value the knowledge you've gained, I applaud you, but I would also remind you that no one likes a know it all. Perhaps if you can begin to understand how your actions are effecting others, you can reach an even deeper understanding of the truth. With that said, very few people will be able to get everyone to like them, but I think those people closest to the Tao have a natural way of living that attracts others to them. I would suggest that if you really wish to reach enlightenment, then you should focus first on understanding what not being enlightened is and then realize that neither of them have any meaning whatsoever, except for the meaning you give them. Aaron These words I use mean nothing. They just are, as the saying goes, fingers pointing to the moon. If you think my words will help you be liberated then great! If not then don't listen to me. Just enjoy life, who cares what I have to say. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
adept Posted December 27, 2010 Enlightenment is liberation. Liberation means freedom. What needs to be liberated ? Liberated from what ? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TheJourney Posted December 27, 2010 What needs to be liberated ? Liberated from what ? You are whatever you want to be. Your reality is whatever you want it to be. The moment that you are in, the reality that you have created, is perfect. All that exists is liberation. And because liberation is all that exists, there is no such thing as liberation, because there is nothing to be liberated from. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
adept Posted December 27, 2010 You are whatever you want to be. Your reality is whatever you want it to be. The moment that you are in, the reality that you have created, is perfect. All that exists is liberation. And because liberation is all that exists, there is no such thing as liberation, because there is nothing to be liberated from. Nice. I like this very much. Thanks. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Everything Posted December 27, 2010 (edited) You are whatever you want to be. Your reality is whatever you want it to be. The moment that you are in, the reality that you have created, is perfect. All that exists is liberation. And because liberation is all that exists, there is no such thing as liberation, because there is nothing to be liberated from. Let me translate that for people who do not understand: "Peanutbutter is not always the same. You can change its flavor. No matter what flavor peanutbutter you currently have, the flavor that you have created, it is perfect. All that exists is making peanutbutter. And because making peanutbutter is all that exists, there is no such thing as making peanutbutter, because there is no one to make peanutbutter for. (I am so lonely...)" :lol: Edited December 27, 2010 by Everything Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Everything Posted December 27, 2010 (edited) Don't grasp at a truth. If there's a truth, then there must be "goodness" within that truth. Therefore there must be morals to live by. Therefore there is a certain way of acting. This is imprisonment! Enlightenment is liberation. Liberation means freedom. How else could be free, unless there was no truth!? It is the only way. The truth is within you. Just think. Truth is what imprisons us. Oh may gawd... I cannot belieeeehve IT! It is Captain Hindsight himself! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cY_oKve-bH0 God bless you sir! Edited December 27, 2010 by Everything Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
三江源 Posted December 27, 2010 Don't grasp at a truth. If there's a truth, then there must be "goodness" within that truth. Therefore there must be morals to live by. Therefore there is a certain way of acting. This is imprisonment! Enlightenment is liberation. Liberation means freedom. How else could be free, unless there was no truth!? It is the only way. The truth is within you. Just think. Truth is what imprisons us. Hi there. Nice you are all enthused. Can we just have a bit of a look at your first premise? "If there's a truth, then there must be "goodness" within that truth" What is your definiton of 'goodness' here? A tree exists, that is a truth. What is the 'goodness' in that truth? Trees are the lungs of our planet. What is the 'goodness' in that truth? A child flourishes when s/he is loved and hugged and cared for. What is the 'goodness' in that truth? A child ignored and brutalised suffers. What is the 'goodness' in that truth? Many people love and enjoy animals. What is the 'goodness' in that truth? Many people enslave and are cruel to animals.What is the 'goodness' in that truth? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TheJourney Posted December 27, 2010 When I speak of "truth" in this context I mean entire outlooks on life. If you have an outlook on life, then you have a way that you think is good. This imprisons you. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
三江源 Posted December 27, 2010 When I speak of "truth" in this context I mean entire outlooks on life. If you have an outlook on life, then you have a way that you think is good. This imprisons you. ah, thanks. So 'truth' for you here means ' entire outlook on life'. That's not a way I generally think of as 'truth' ..... (Though I know in theory people say things like "live your truth" which I think means 'be authentic'.) Do people have an entire outlook on life? People I know have an assorted collection of wishes, hopes, aspirations, fears, programming, upbringing, education, and not all of it works in the same direction, there is often a lot of conflict within their collection. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TheJourney Posted December 27, 2010 ah, thanks. So 'truth' for you here means ' entire outlook on life'. That's not a way I generally think of as 'truth' ..... (Though I know in theory people say things like "live your truth" which I think means 'be authentic'.) Do people have an entire outlook on life? People I know have an assorted collection of wishes, hopes, aspirations, fears, programming, upbringing, education, and not all of it works in the same direction, there is often a lot of conflict within their collection. Right. And all of those things you listed creates their reality. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
三江源 Posted December 27, 2010 Right. And all of those things you listed creates their reality. Yes, that assortment of many and conflictual things means that their reality is fluctuant and organic. Today someone may eat too much and tomorrow they may diet. Today they may be addicted to porn and tomorrow decide to give it up. This week they may appreciate their parents and next week find them deadly. Whilst wishing to get out of debt, they decide to buy a new car. Wherein resides their entire outlook on life that you see as their truth? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TheJourney Posted December 27, 2010 Yes, that assortment of many and conflictual things means that their reality is fluctuant and organic. Today someone may eat too much and tomorrow they may diet. Today they may be addicted to porn and tomorrow decide to give it up. This week they may appreciate their parents and next week find them deadly. Whilst wishing to get out of debt, they decide to buy a new car. Wherein resides their entire outlook on life that you see as their truth? You are simply talking about ultimate truth. You can only live subjective truth. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TheJourney Posted December 27, 2010 Wherein resides the truth that you are referring to in your original post? "truth" is the nature of non-truth. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
三江源 Posted December 27, 2010 "truth" is the nature of non-truth. The idea above is very familiar, thankyou. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
