longevity of Tibetan masters

[ralis]

No, I know that you were there in front of Norbu, but the things you say do not reflect his teachings as expressed in his books, the talks I've been to, and what others who have been with him for decades have to say about his teachings.

 

I'm not talking about things that are up for interpretation either, but specifics. Including the belief in the ability to elongate your life indefinitely through secluded practice. He talks about such masters in "Crystal and the Way of Light." A book he wrote for popular consumption. Not to mention the books you are only allowed access to after various transmissions and initiations.

 

Your beliefs just don't line up at all ralis.

 

Which is why I say that you only saw in Chogyal Namkhai Norbu Rinpoche what you wanted to see, and that's it.

 

 

The teachings of Norbu and specifically Rigpa, means freedom from religious oppression that you so rigidly adhere to! Further, it means that I am free from goosestepping with any teacher and belief system, including Norbu and you! Provisional faith and belief systems are walls for the weak minded fools that are terrified of naked awareness. Provisional faith is the path of the weak minded.

 

The transmission of Rigpa has freed me from conditioning that power hungry religious fanatics impose on others. That imposition is always in the name of the highest cause.

Edited December 29, 2010 by ralis

[Vajrahridaya]

The teachings of Norbu and specifically Rigpa, means freedom from religious oppression that you so rigidly adhere to! Further, it means that I am free from goosestepping with any teacher and belief system, including Norbu and you! Provisional faith and belief systems are walls for the weak minded fools that are terrified of naked awareness. Provisional faith is the path of the weak minded.

 

The transmission of Rigpa has freed me from conditioning that power hungry religious fanatics impose on others. That imposition is always in the name of the highest cause.

 

Yes, like I said, you seemed to have found through Norbus teachings solidification for your projections, misunderstandings and bitterness.

 

That's not Rigpa.

 

p.s. Naked awareness, I mean truly naked awareness manifests various experiences, including insights transcending various limitations that you cling to as solid fact. This includes your ideas about re-birth, and Rigpa frees you from ideas of physical solidity, and other things reflecting these insights. If you've truly experienced Rigpa, you can see directly how "Jalus" or "Rainbow Body" is possible, as well as elongation of life. From the things you state, it's obvious that you don't even believe in the possibility of the "Jalus." It's also obvious that you haven't really experienced Rigpa, but merely one of the Jhana states. You should go back to Norbu, with true humility and study what he has to offer you with your head laid down in honest openness. Not the pretend openness that you saw him respond to with distaste thinking it was a reflection of some other projections you have about his dislike for being considered a "father figure" that you consider real and true.

 

You saw in Norbu, only what you wanted to see.

Edited December 29, 2010 by Vajrahridaya

[ralis]

Yes, like I said, you seemed to have found through Norbus teachings solidification for your projections, misunderstandings and bitterness.

 

That's not Rigpa.

 

p.s. Naked awareness, I mean truly naked awareness manifests various experiences, including insights transcending various limitations that you cling to as solid fact. This includes your ideas about re-birth, and Rigpa frees you from ideas of physical solidity, and other things reflecting these insights. If you've truly experienced Rigpa, you can see directly how "Jalus" or "Rainbow Body" is possible, as well as elongation of life. From the things you state, it's obvious that you don't even believe in the possibility of the "Jalus." It's also obvious that you haven't really experienced Rigpa, but merely one of the Jhana states. You should go back to Norbu, with true humility and study what he has to offer you with your head laid down in honest openness. Not the pretend openness that you saw him respond to with distaste thinking it was a reflection of some other projections you have about his dislike for being considered a "father figure" that you consider real and true.

 

You saw in Norbu, only what you wanted to see.

 

 

I guess you are the ultimate arbiter of truth! Why are you the self appointed Rigpa police? Not only in that context, but you are the the thought police. I know a few Buddhists and many Christians with the same attitude.

 

BTW, elongate means to grow longer i.e, physical growth.

 

From what I know about brain plasticity, you have all the marks of a conservative. Only you express it through religion.

 

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2010/12/conservatives-fear-center-brain/

 

You used the term "believes" in terms of what Norbu teaches in regards to longevity. Belief is irrelevant, and has nothing to do with the truth. As far as I can determine, Norbu is still human and has the same flaws as humans. If he had no flaws, he would not be here. You are probably not aware that Norbu almost died from leukemia 20 yrs. ago.

 

The actual transmission of Rigpa has nothing to do with beings living for thousands of years. You state this extreme longevity as if it were factual.

Edited December 29, 2010 by ralis

[thelerner]

[Gerard]

Michael,

 

The thing is that people who attain that longevity don't return to society to share with the rest what they know and attained. They don't need to, as they basically live between worlds. The only thing you could do is go and seek for them in person, and who knows you might come across one or more of them. But certainly they do exist.

[Guest sykkelpump]

The reader is posting much as I supposed,go practice some my friend and stop telling everyone what you have read.We can buay our own books.I am yet to hear something intelligent from your own mind that are not a copy/paste work?

Maybe because your memory is slow since you proparbly are 3000 years old

 

 

Vajrahridaya

[Guest sykkelpump]

Vajrahridaya is on a such high level that we can not understand.but where is his universial love and enlightenment.Is it between his words?maybe.I just cant see it.His wisdom is standing between maybe.excuse me:LOL

What do you think Cat?

You seems to be impressed about his complicated talking.Why?? beacause his copy paste work??thypically low brain girls,dont understand the essence,but just finds it charming when people say things in a complicated way(not easy or intelligent) they usually cant break it down in an easy way.usually it is because they dont know or understand themself.because of no experience they just reference to books and old masters etc.I know my latest post is about the same,WAKE up tao bums dont belive everything.I am a hater?NO.but what is spreading lies.

[Guest sykkelpump]

Vajrahridaya is on a such high level that we can not understand.but where is his universial love and enlightenment.Is it between his words?maybe.I just cant see it.His wisdom is standing between maybe.excuse me:LOL

What do you think Cat?

You seems to be impressed about his complicated talking.Why?? beacause his copy paste work??****** **** **** ****,dont understand the essence,but just finds it charming when people say things in a complicated way(not easy or intelligent) they usually cant break it down in an easy way.usually it is because they dont know or understand themself.because of no experience they just reference to books and old masters etc.I know my latest post is about the same,WAKE up tao bums dont belive everything.I am a hater?NO.but what is spreading lies.

 

**** Mod Action ****

 

Please refrain from personal insult - see Mod Guidelines.

 

**** Mod Apech *****

[ralis]

Vajrahridaya is on a such high level that we can not understand.but where is his universial love and enlightenment.Is it between his words?maybe.I just cant see it.His wisdom is standing between maybe.excuse me:LOL

What do you think Cat?

You seems to be impressed about his complicated talking.Why?? beacause his copy paste work??*****************,dont understand the essence,but just finds it charming when people say things in a complicated way(not easy or intelligent) they usually cant break it down in an easy way.usually it is because they dont know or understand themself.because of no experience they just reference to books and old masters etc.I know my latest post is about the same,WAKE up tao bums dont belive everything.I am a hater?NO.but what is spreading lies.

 

His writing is way beyond my comprehension. Cut and paste? Interesting assessment.

Edited December 30, 2010 by Apech

[Starjumper]

If he had a dependable formula for longevity he wasn't sharing it.

 

The way of the Way is this, only the fewest do the highest form of exercise, the most do the poorest form of exercise. You can parade it out in front of their faces and most can't see it. I know this for a fact, in fact some of the very best have drunk themselves or shot themselves to death because of it.

 

They were martial arts masters, but the sentiment still applies.

Edited December 30, 2010 by Starjumper7

[Starjumper]

Who is this sykkelpump guy anyway?

Edited December 30, 2010 by Starjumper7

[Mandrake]

[quote name='sykkelpump' date='29 December 2010 - 09:56 PM

Vajrahridaya is on a such high level that we can not understand.but where is his universial love and enlightenment.Is it between his words?maybe.I just cant see it.His wisdom is standing between maybe.excuse me:LOL

What do you think Cat?

You seems to be impressed about his complicated talking.Why?? beacause his copy paste work??********************,dont understand the essence,but just finds it charming when people say things in a complicated way(not easy or intelligent) they usually cant break it down in an easy way.usually it is because they dont know or understand themself.because of no experience they just reference to books and old masters etc.I know my latest post is about the same,WAKE up tao bums dont belive everything.I am a hater?NO.but what is spreading lies.

/quote]

This Vajra-bashing is tiresome. A handful of people seem to have real issues with every post of his - usually grounded in their own inabilities - and their posts always comes with a feeling of wanting revenge, of personal righteousness being slighted. How is this supposed to contribute to the community? How is this flaunting of personal issues with somebody else going to help us other members?

 

There are thousands of members on this forums, thousands of posters. Many posts don't elicit any interest and further understanding in me - guess what? I just brush these posts aside. Most here are cultivators or at least professes interest in spirituality, they speak about meditation, give advice, but the image they present - their comments and acting - reeks with negativism.

 

What utterly bewilders me is that third parties (cat and others) who say that they benefit from Vajra's posts - and god forbid, their litteracy don't struggle at all reading his posts - are attacked.

 

Does the internet entitle you to behave like this against other people or do you behave like this in real life as well?

 

 

Mandrake

[Gerard]

Mandrake,

 

I was going to write a message about the same thing, but I realised you were first. Anyway, I am not going to refrain posting on this issue.

 

1. First and foremost. It's a problem that the moderators of this forum fail to address: effective moderation. Let me use bold writing to point it out.

 

2. Secondly. It's a reflection of the current moral attitude and behaviour of mainstream society, which is scoring near 0.5%. Posters like those who attack Vajrahridaya don't understand that they are simply hurting themselves. If they study the profound teaching of the Buddha in the matter of the interconnectedness of all phenomena then they will think twice about acting the way they do.

 

In the meantime, let me act as a Karma policeman:

 

1. ralis. Take a week off and think about your posts on this thread.

 

2. sykkelpump. One week off for the very same reason. Learn how to write correctly as well.

 

If the two of you still decide to return to the forum before the week is over, then you basically failed to understand that this is not the typical internet forum where people just come and have a chat about their favourite TV sitcom or their neighbour's recent "boob job." You too need to grow up. Honestly I am tired of your constant trolling which has already created a negative trend within yourselves. Karma Dharma. Capisce?

[Guest sykkelpump]

Mandrake,

 

I was going to write a message about the same thing, but I realised you were first. Anyway, I am not going to refrain posting on this issue.

 

1. First and foremost. It's a problem that the moderators of this forum fail to address: effective moderation. Let me use bold writing to point it out.

 

2. Secondly. It's a reflection of the current moral attitude and behaviour of mainstream society, which is scoring near 0.5%. Posters like those who attack Vajrahridaya don't understand that they are simply hurting themselves. If they study the profound teaching of the Buddha in the matter of the interconnectedness of all phenomena then they will think twice about acting the way they do.

 

In the meantime, let me act as a Karma policeman:

 

1. ralis. Take a week off and think about your posts on this thread.

 

2. sykkelpump. One week off for the very same reason. Learn how to write correctly as well.

 

If the two of you still decide to return to the forum before the week is over, then you basically failed to understand that this is not the typical internet forum where people just come and have a chat about their favourite TV sitcom or their neighbour's recent "boob job." You too need to grow up. Honestly I am tired of your constant trolling which has already created a negative trend within yourselves. Karma Dharma. Capisce?

 

If you think about yourself as a karma police,then you should consider thinking about me and ralis as a reality polis ha ha,just kidding.Maybe that is not so bad idea anyway,so this forum dont turns into an adventure forum.relax the thightness in your mind my friend.

By the way are you happy with my spelling this time?

Edited December 30, 2010 by sykkelpump

[ralis]

 

This Vajra-bashing is tiresome. A handful of people seem to have real issues with every post of his - usually grounded in their own inabilities - and their posts always comes with a feeling of wanting revenge, of personal righteousness being slighted. How is this supposed to contribute to the community? How is this flaunting of personal issues with somebody else going to help us other members?

 

 

 

 

Mandrake

 

"Grounded in their own inabilities?" Exactly what is that supposed to mean?

 

This used to be a Taoist forum until Vajraji was invited here by one of his buddies to preach the gospel of the Buddha. He has misrepresented Buddhism as the ultimate spiritual authority on this world, while condemning other belief systems as being inferior. This is typical of fundamentalists and their incessant need to create hierarchies where none exist. He believes his writing is pedantic in scope, which is not the case. One only needs to follow his constant bantering of several key points, ad infinitum, to understand that he is more interested in preaching legalistic points, as opposed to having real debate. He posits fundamental ideology in conjunction with wild stories of his past lives and most recently, extreme longevity of a select few on this world. Whenever I question his ideas he always returns with a personal attack against me.

 

Recently he has a need to belittle my experiences in receiving Rigpa transmission from Norbu. Rigpa by its very definition has no rules and he has a need to impose rules.

 

If this forum is open to debate, then what is your problem in wanting to define and limit that debate?

[j.fachao]

[ralis]

Mandrake,

 

I was going to write a message about the same thing, but I realised you were first. Anyway, I am not going to refrain posting on this issue.

 

1. First and foremost. It's a problem that the moderators of this forum fail to address: effective moderation. Let me use bold writing to point it out.

 

2. Secondly. It's a reflection of the current moral attitude and behaviour of mainstream society, which is scoring near 0.5%. Posters like those who attack Vajrahridaya don't understand that they are simply hurting themselves. If they study the profound teaching of the Buddha in the matter of the interconnectedness of all phenomena then they will think twice about acting the way they do.

 

In the meantime, let me act as a Karma policeman:

 

1. ralis. Take a week off and think about your posts on this thread.

 

2. sykkelpump. One week off for the very same reason. Learn how to write correctly as well.

 

If the two of you still decide to return to the forum before the week is over, then you basically failed to understand that this is not the typical internet forum where people just come and have a chat about their favourite TV sitcom or their neighbour's recent "boob job." You too need to grow up. Honestly I am tired of your constant trolling which has already created a negative trend within yourselves. Karma Dharma. Capisce?

 

 

Karma police? :lol: You are wanting to be the thought police which is nothing more than oppression of others. According to your ideology, I should sit in the corner and be very afraid of anything that might cause a ripple in the interconnectedness of phenomena. Then I will reap bad karma for eons if I make a mistake. That attitude is paranoid, guilt ridden and self serving. Why would any reasonable intelligent person want that path. This whole Buddhist karmic philosophy is anthropocentric to the extreme! Buddhists have some notion, they are responsible for the workings of the entire cosmos and if wrong thought and action are cultivated, then the entire cosmos is screwed for infinite eons.

 

If you feel a need to be detailed in worrying about every infinitesimal karmic detail, then go and join the Jains in India.

[j.fachao]

[ralis]

[j.fachao]

Hi ralis,

 

I really understand your concern, and at some point I have the same, that's the reason why I asked.

 

I don't necessarily buy everything I read, or hear. I think it is really a personal and subjective matter because it may be very difficult to really prove something.

 

Almost everyone here knows the scientific studies about qigong benefiting health (for both prevention and cure to some extent). There are less about hatha-yoga, but it seems that it can help. But we are also aware of few people having practiced qigong or yoga for decades AND having cancer or life threatening diseases.

Explaining clearly and in a rational way why may be hard work. One can mention karma, incorrect practice, low quality systems but in the end...

 

As far as longevity is concerned, fear of death or illness is often here twisting one's judgment, not talking about all the other causes of biases.

 

Fachao

 

Thanks for starting this topic. It would be nice to see some real evidence as opposed to the myth that has been so popularized in the West. People love to throw out stories of extreme longevity as a belief system as opposed to any real concrete evidence. It usually comes down hearsay.

Edited December 30, 2010 by j.fachao

[TheSongsofDistantEarth]

[henro]

Hi ralis,

 

I really understand your concern, and at some point I have the same, that's the reason why I asked.

 

I don't necessarily buy everything I read, or hear. I think it is really a personal and subjective matter because it may be very difficult to really prove something.

 

Almost everyone here knows the scientific studies about qigong benefiting health (for both prevention and cure to some extent). There are less about hatha-yoga, but it seems that it can help. But we are also aware of few people having practiced qigong or yoga for decades AND having cancer or life threatening diseases.

Explaining clearly and in a rational way why may be hard work. One can mention karma, incorrect practice, low quality systems but in the end...

 

As far as longevity is concerned, fear of death or illness is often here twisting one's judgment, not talking about all the other causes of biases.

 

Fachao

 

Western Science is constantly changing to try to explain the phenomena we regularly see in Chinese medicine, the world of qigong, and alternative healing. Here's just one story which defies western thought:

 

http://www.shouyuliang.com/syl1/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=27&Itemid=235

 

And, I also returned from China this week where a family friend has surpassed her western doctors prognosis by two years simply by taking chinese herbs. She has cancer in her brain. . . .

 

maybe I've just been lucky, but I've seen two many miracles since I started on this path to not believe in the possibilities.

[Starjumper]

If you think about yourself as a karma police,then you should consider thinking about me and ralis as a reality polis ha ha,just kidding.Maybe that is not so bad idea anyway,so this forum dont turns into an adventure forum.relax the thightness in your mind my friend.

By the way are you happy with my spelling this time?

 

Try this on for size. Cat is pretty wise and aware, so for you to say mean things to her indicates your blindness. Also, when you say mean things to people I like then I don't like you, weird, huh?

 

Relax the tightness in your own mind first. DUH!

[Apech]

Mandrake,

 

I was going to write a message about the same thing, but I realised you were first. Anyway, I am not going to refrain posting on this issue.

 

1. First and foremost. It's a problem that the moderators of this forum fail to address: effective moderation. Let me use bold writing to point it out.

 

.... <snip>

 

Gerard,

 

Much as I respect you I feel moved to point out that this forum is moderated in a way that people on here seem to generally accept and respect. Obviously different people will have their own definition of what effective moderation is - but I think most of us want as little moderation as possible and for the conversations to be as spontaneous, tangential and at times passionate as they can be. If people disagree strongly that is ok ... what is not ok is personal attacks, insults and so on (read the Mod Guidelines). Just because we don't step in at every hot headed remark does not mean that we are not effectively moderating. In fact self moderation is the ideal - where the participants themselves remind each other of the right etiquette and approach when discussing these subjects.

 

Right now I've got that off my chest I feel a lot better.

 

A.

[j.fachao]

Hi robmix,

 

Thank you for your contribution.I had already seen in my web wanderings what you are referring to with your link.

 

I am always impressed with this cases, and I am also a firm believer of the power of what qi manipulation can do (in chinese medicine or even in Feng Shui). To me this is not in question. It is just a matter of time and patience to see it plainly recognized.

 

What I was questioning in this thread is longevity, i-e the ability to live longer than the average. This notion is anyway not easy to deal with because it lacks of clear scientific definition. But it doesn't damage to ask the question.

 

Fachao

 

Western Science is constantly changing to try to explain the phenomena we regularly see in Chinese medicine, the world of qigong, and alternative healing. Here's just one story which defies western thought:

 

http://www.shouyuliang.com/syl1/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=27&Itemid=235

 

And, I also returned from China this week where a family friend has surpassed her western doctors prognosis by two years simply by taking chinese herbs. She has cancer in her brain. . . .

 

maybe I've just been lucky, but I've seen two many miracles since I started on this path to not believe in the possibilities.