What will be the future earth society?

[Trash Filter]

Hey straw, this is excellent topic. And free choice is always interesting.

 

I've got a bit of backgrd in kabbalah, they say we have free will in choosing our environment and hence speeding up our developments in lifetimes, but we don't have free will in that we cannot avoid our final correction or something like our ultimate fate. We are all to reach the final correction whether smoothly or fighting against the tide painfully lifetime after lifetime.

 

Something i found fascinating lately in a recent camelot interview, was that these buggers controlling at the top with cold precision, don't view time like we do and see things happen in sequence rather then plan dates. Really living in the now with choices, although totally unrestrained morally.

 

TF

[strawdog65]

"The very Idea of having "real" free will is like saying you may do whatever you please.

Neither one is a part of the nature of our reality."

 

Oh, well, if you're sure. I think we've probably had this discussion before, Taoists tend to be pretty radical about it. I may do as I please to avoid "the singularity" and "it" may do as it pleases to attempt to get me to accept it of my own volition (that could go all the way down to heavy coercion and torture BTW, not just a neat fashion statement or keeping up with Joneses).

 

We can get to "our reality" in another post. It's blatantly not "ours" unless both of us accept it as such.

 

But hey, if in your reality there's no free will whatsoever and everything is ultimately determined and all the people are sheep (are you including yourself?) in your world, then yes, it's possible your reality is one in which "the singularity" will come along and getcha. But the damnedest (sp?) question, is why did you decide it that way?

 

 

I am not a proponent of the singularity. I will most likely not survive long enough

to see anything like it come to pass. I only state that things like free will and

freedom are illusory.

 

Prove to me the existence of free will. (That is, any decision you have made that is independent of

your own desires.) Why not just call it what it is? The ability to act upon your own desires.

Free will only exists to the extent that the rules of society allow. Just another caged illusion

we exist within.

 

Whether we exist within our bodies, or as just consciousness within some great machine,

we will still have the illusion of free will, maybe more so inside of a machine consciousness

because of the lack of limitations placed upon us by the physical bodies we inhabit in this

plane of existence.

 

Yes the question of "reality" is singular in it's perspective to the self, and no one but

that person can ever possibly know the experience of their own perceived reality.

[strawdog65]

Hey straw, this is excellent topic. And free choice is always interesting.

 

I've got a bit of backgrd in kabbalah, they say we have free will in choosing our environment and hence speeding up our developments in lifetimes, but we don't have free will in that we cannot avoid our final correction or something like our ultimate fate. We are all to reach the final correction whether smoothly or fighting against the tide painfully lifetime after lifetime.

 

Something i found fascinating lately in a recent camelot interview, was that these buggers controlling at the top with cold precision, don't view time like we do and see things happen in sequence rather then plan dates. Really living in the now with choices, although totally unrestrained morally.

 

TF

 

 

Hi TF!

 

What are the camelot interviews? Any links? I'm interested.

Are you talking about world mechanics and population control?

 

I do agree that we can make choices that effect our environments,

thereby effecting our final situation at the end of the line.

 

It has been argued that morality is a false thing.

Only existing within the judgmental mind of man.

Morality requires a distinct sense of good and bad/right and wrong.

Within nature there is no presence of such mentality, and

the Tao accepts all into its bosom.

[Trash Filter]

Hey straw, im in a library now with time to kill.

 

The simplest proof that there is a small extent of free will, is the fact we ask if there is or not or feel the corresponding emotions. I believe the creator created us to be an entity that demonstrates independent choices, although we are limited in a framework of inherent lack of free will. Kind of like, we are allowed some room to make small free choices but we still are going where we must go regardless.

What is very cool is that we are initially something that is completely different to the Creator. We need to meet desires, where as the creator only gives, and has no desires for it lacks nothing.

I guess as an ultimate truth, we may not.

 

TF

[Trash Filter]

Sure thing, Camelot interviews are excellent

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_nLgHnC6BdE

 

http://projectcamelotportal.com/

 

TF

[Birch]

"Prove to me the existence of free will. (That is, any decision you have made that is independent of

your own desires.)"

 

But that's your definition of it, isn't it?

 

You want a full and proper logical version of my argument on your terms I suppose. And you'll be the judge of whether it is full and proper and logical as well, I suppose. Even if you don't understand what I'm saying, I suppose.

 

Hum, so not only do you want me to prove it to you, but you want me to transcend my reality to come and do all the logical arguing to prove it to you in yours?

 

You must think I'm a magician! Yey!

[strawdog65]

Hey straw, im in a library now with time to kill.

 

The simplest proof that there is a small extent of free will, is the fact we ask if there is or not or feel the corresponding emotions. I believe the creator created us to be an entity that demonstrates independent choices, although we are limited in a framework of inherent lack of free will. Kind of like, we are allowed some room to make small free choices but we still are going where we must go regardless.

What is very cool is that we are initially something that is completely different to the Creator. We need to meet desires, where as the creator only gives, and has no desires for it lacks nothing.

I guess as an ultimate truth, we may not.

 

TF

 

Hi TF!

 

Maybe it's the term "free will" itself that I am seeing as a type of misnomer.

As applied to any ordered system, free will is non existent.

We all live in a ordered system that is the world, the illusion we call

"free will" is only real to us within a small degree, once we exceed the

parameters of this society, free will evaporates and is replaced with

incarceration.

 

True we make choices. Choices that are nothing more than acting on our

own self motivated desires. There is only the freedom to decide whatever

you please, it is the acting upon those decisions that illustrate the lack

of freedom we thought we had.

 

The best way to control people is to let them believe they are free.

To question the nature of the closed system is to find the hidden

boundaries where freedom ends.

[strawdog65]

"Prove to me the existence of free will. (That is, any decision you have made that is independent of

your own desires.)"

 

But that's your definition of it, isn't it?

 

You want a full and proper logical version of my argument on your terms I suppose. And you'll be the judge of whether it is full and proper and logical as well, I suppose. Even if you don't understand what I'm saying, I suppose.

 

Hum, so not only do you want me to prove it to you, but you want me to transcend my reality to come and do all the logical arguing to prove it to you in yours?

 

You must think I'm a magician! Yey!

 

 

Hi Kate!

 

Yes I bet you can do some magical tricks, just need the right hat!

 

No, I just wanted to hear your thoughts on what you consider to be

"free will". Free will to me is nothing more than to say yes or no when

given a choice to make. Plain and simple.

 

But philosophically... to me it is an illusion.

There are too many controlling factors within our structured society

to say that "free will" is actual.

To survive within a dominating structure, you must conform to the

standards that society puts forth. Which to me eliminates the very

idea of free will.

 

No magic is needed, just thoughts on how you see it.

 

I'm not interested in determining who's right or wrong here,

because I don't see it's necessary for anyone to be wrong.

We all have our own take on what we perceive the world to be

and I am open to your viewpoint.

[Birch]

"No, I just wanted to hear your thoughts on what you consider to be

"free will". Free will to me is nothing more than to say yes or no when

given a choice to make. Plain and simple."

 

Okay!

 

Yup, there's a few "things" there that merit discussion. I'm not a philosopher, not very good at it, but I like to try to work things out. Here's a shot.

 

I would start with the idea of "choice". And the idea that we are "given" a choice to which we only say "yes" or "no". That to me is already a problem, right there. IMO ANY situation in which a "yes/no choice" is "given" to us (as opposed to a solution being considered, or thought out, or discussed, or sought out for oneself, or any number of alternatives) tells me that the "choice" on offer is in reality not a "choice" but effectively a pretty well delimited "cage" of options that the "giver" has elaborated for us.

 

In that situation "free will" could propose any number of alternatives/solutions/ideas, including NOT to entertain the so-called "choice" that is so (un/graciously?) on offer but because my freewill stops at the other person's, IMO I'd be smarter if I found a solution that suits both of us so we both get what we want.

 

Of course, the freewill of the "giver" could respond to my suggestions with any number of wonderful alternative options. But in practice, because they probably still want to have their way, the giver may offer up more "choices" that seek to lock me into an even narrower set of options. And depending on what they want, well, that could go all over the place for me. Including (probably) at least one option where I'll decide I don't want/need whatever I want sufficiently badly so I'll give up and give in. In other words, they "stacked the deck".

 

 

"To survive within a dominating structure, you must conform to the

standards that society puts forth. Which to me eliminates the very

idea of free will."

 

To "accommodate" a dominating structure, yes, you have to be submissive or become part of the dominant lot. But not if you neither want to accommodate it nor become dominant. In that situation, "free will" could pick and choose which aspects of the society they wanted to adhere to vs the aspects they didn't. But again, watch out for folks "stacking the deck".

 

"No magic is needed, just thoughts on how you see it. "

 

Thanks

 

"I'm not interested in determining who's right or wrong here,

because I don't see it's necessary for anyone to be wrong.

We all have our own take on what we perceive the world to be."

 

Yes, I suppose we do. However, that argument is probably often used to justify inherently awful things, so I'd need to think about it some more before I respond to it.

[Trash Filter]

Just off the bat, say that we accept that the ultimate truth is: that there is no free will, like an appendage attached to the body which is always under control of the brain. Suppose there is Creator or a source of creaton, why would we have the feeling of free will in us, if non truly exists? Nothing is wasted in creaton!

The authentic kabbalahists reckon that it is because of our "disparity of form" from the source. We feel as if we are separate, and perhaps think we are our own mind. As we some how become more like/closer to the source, perhaps we come to an understanding that we are not truly independent and free willed human. But we can remember this: we kind of ARE different to the source, in that we run by the need to receive for desires, and source needs/lacks nothing. Complicated for me.

 

take care

 

TF

[freeform]

Jaque Fresco is a sweet old man. He's worked for companies that design rotor blades and de-icers.. although apparently there's no evidence of either of these companies having ever existed. He likes to draw pictures and make cool, futuristic models.

 

This guy lives in his imagination - deeply entrenched. You can see from how he talks and moves that his awareness rarely moves outside of his own head... he constantly makes mental images as he speaks... and rarely accesses the intelligence of his body - practitioners normally call this 'ungrounded'. So he creates these fantastic ideas in his imagination - where they work perfectly and luckily don't need to answer to the realities of the real world here. He's not malicious, just lost in his own imagination.

 

He's inviting us into his imagined land through the Venus Project. I think it's interesting - worth exploring - like a good book or an interesting painting - just don't pretend it's grounded in reality.

 

It's very simple - how have past paradigm shifts happened?

 

The answer is even simpler - it's not through politics or economics or sociological design - paradigm shifts have always happened as a result of a huge leap in technology.

 

We learn to work metal and build tools - suddenly the agricultural paradigm arises (without effort or 'design')... We create engines and the industrial revolution takes us further... We create the internet and we have an information-based society...

 

What's the next step? Well it usually happens by accident or comes in from out of nowhere.

 

Maybe free energy will be the next step - but the society that arises as a result can only arise organically - it can't be designed to the sort of extent dear old Jaque would like to think of.

 

Taoist principles are very simple and very complex... life on earth is a duality - if you try to stamp out all 'bad' it will arise where you're not looking. (good and bad always try to reach equilibrium!)

 

We've lived a life with very little work, lots of free time, and generally good health and a deep spiritual life in the past. Although it's an unpopular idea - but as hunter/gatherers we worked between 2 to 4 hours a day and spent the rest of the time singing, dancing, crafting, story telling, painting, spiritual practices... we didn't rape the earth of its resources... but we did die of famines every now and then - and we had to be very careful with population control (again there's no ideal society with only 'good' and no 'bad')... Have a look at the Kalahari Bushman culture - still lives a very similar lifestyle as the hunter/gatherers of the past.

 

If this is the life you want then you really do have to give up your stuff (they only 'own' what they can carry)... you also have to give up all control and live with a deep respect for the earth and the heaven and your fellow man...

[strawdog65]

"No, I just wanted to hear your thoughts on what you consider to be

"free will". Free will to me is nothing more than to say yes or no when

given a choice to make. Plain and simple."

 

Okay!

 

Yup, there's a few "things" there that merit discussion. I'm not a philosopher, not very good at it, but I like to try to work things out. Here's a shot.

 

I would start with the idea of "choice". And the idea that we are "given" a choice to which we only say "yes" or "no". That to me is already a problem, right there. IMO ANY situation in which a "yes/no choice" is "given" to us (as opposed to a solution being considered, or thought out, or discussed, or sought out for oneself, or any number of alternatives) tells me that the "choice" on offer is in reality not a "choice" but effectively a pretty well delimited "cage" of options that the "giver" has elaborated for us.

 

In that situation "free will" could propose any number of alternatives/solutions/ideas, including NOT to entertain the so-called "choice" that is so (un/graciously?) on offer but because my freewill stops at the other person's, IMO I'd be smarter if I found a solution that suits both of us so we both get what we want.

 

Of course, the freewill of the "giver" could respond to my suggestions with any number of wonderful alternative options. But in practice, because they probably still want to have their way, the giver may offer up more "choices" that seek to lock me into an even narrower set of options. And depending on what they want, well, that could go all over the place for me. Including (probably) at least one option where I'll decide I don't want/need whatever I want sufficiently badly so I'll give up and give in. In other words, they "stacked the deck".

 

 

"To survive within a dominating structure, you must conform to the

standards that society puts forth. Which to me eliminates the very

idea of free will."

 

To "accommodate" a dominating structure, yes, you have to be submissive or become part of the dominant lot. But not if you neither want to accommodate it nor become dominant. In that situation, "free will" could pick and choose which aspects of the society they wanted to adhere to vs the aspects they didn't. But again, watch out for folks "stacking the deck".

 

"No magic is needed, just thoughts on how you see it. "

 

Thanks

 

 

 

"I'm not interested in determining who's right or wrong here,

because I don't see it's necessary for anyone to be wrong.

We all have our own take on what we perceive the world to be."

 

Yes, I suppose we do. However, that argument is probably often used to justify inherently awful things, so I'd need to think about it some more before I respond to it.

 

 

Hi Kate!

 

Thanks for the great response!

I am in complete agreement with what you've said, very well said that is.

 

you are completely right about when given a choice, often times it is far from

an equitable solution, and someone else's choices "given" to you hardly amount to

anything other than implicit control of the out come by narrowing the solution to

their own parameters.

 

I do agree that real "free will" is having the "permission" (hate to say it like that) to find

your own equitable solution. Thats where the problem comes in. We can really never

separate our selves from this society as long as we survive by it's function. So even though

we have the ability to realize that free will can be made real by acting in a way that is above

reproach and considers others in the decision making process, it is the enacting of those

"free will" decisions that is most often untenable. So... we can see it, we can agree what it is,

but can we bring it into our lives and not suffer negative consequences to our being accepted

within the society as a whole? Does the acting upon of free will necessitate the withdrawal

from the societal norm? Can one act upon their free will and still be firmly rooted in society?

 

I'm sure there is a solution equitable for everyone in there some where.

 

 

Peace!

[strawdog65]

Just off the bat, say that we accept that the ultimate truth is: that there is no free will, like an appendage attached to the body which is always under control of the brain. Suppose there is Creator or a source of creaton, why would we have the feeling of free will in us, if non truly exists? Nothing is wasted in creaton!

The authentic kabbalahists reckon that it is because of our "disparity of form" from the source. We feel as if we are separate, and perhaps think we are our own mind. As we some how become more like/closer to the source, perhaps we come to an understanding that we are not truly independent and free willed human. But we can remember this: we kind of ARE different to the source, in that we run by the need to receive for desires, and source needs/lacks nothing. Complicated for me.

 

take care

 

TF

 

Hi TF!

 

Very interesting line of thought here.

 

I think the separation factor is a large part of why there is the thought of there being

such a thing as "free will". If we considered ourselves to be small pieces of the larger whole

would we not be more interested in an equitable solution for all parts concerned within the

whole? I think so. This is why the separation of people and countries the world over create

the illusion of everything being separate when in fact we are all living in one giant (by Human

standards) self contained biosphere where everything is entirely dependent on everything else.

We are seeing the world wide effects of this being the reality of our world right now.

There is no true separation.

If we look at it from a physics stand point(just generally, I am not a physicist! ) There is the

Time/Space continuum, the fabric so to speak of the universe. Gravity exerts it's influence upon

this fabric, which is why near very dense/ heavy objects there is the effect of a "gravity well"

the fabric of Space/Time has a depression or lower spot created by the mass of the heavy/dense object

like a planet or a star that exists there. Other objects (planets, asteroids, anything of less mass

or density, respond to the deformation in the fabric of Space /Time by being drawn towards

the heavier more massive objects. This fabric of Space/time is all around us, there is no place it does

not exist, it connects everything.... Everything. To my mind it is the reason for what scientists refer

to as "action at a distance" or "entanglement". There is an instantaneous transfer of information

over great distances that can not be accounted for using the laws of physics as we understand them now.

 

The simple explanation to me, is that we (everything ) is constantly connected by the this fabric. There is no

such thing as an "empty" space. The fabric of space time is there always. Think of it as Tao or the Force or

whatever. The fact is, nothing is truly separate we are all in a state of constant mixing and commingling

with everything we come into contact or not. The illusion of separateness is only because we lack the

sensory abilities to perceive what is happening at the quantum level of our everyday existence.

 

If MarbleHead is reading this... Yes I know the chair is real. And this information has no real

use except to open awareness of the inter connectedness of everything seen and unseen in this

universe.

 

See what a can of worms you opened TrashFilter?

 

I am enjoying the great conversation we are having very much.... Please continue!

 

 

Peace!

[strawdog65]

Jaque Fresco is a sweet old man. He's worked for companies that design rotor blades and de-icers.. although apparently there's no evidence of either of these companies having ever existed. He likes to draw pictures and make cool, futuristic models.

 

This guy lives in his imagination - deeply entrenched. You can see from how he talks and moves that his awareness rarely moves outside of his own head... he constantly makes mental images as he speaks... and rarely accesses the intelligence of his body - practitioners normally call this 'ungrounded'. So he creates these fantastic ideas in his imagination - where they work perfectly and luckily don't need to answer to the realities of the real world here. He's not malicious, just lost in his own imagination.

 

He's inviting us into his imagined land through the Venus Project. I think it's interesting - worth exploring - like a good book or an interesting painting - just don't pretend it's grounded in reality.

 

It's very simple - how have past paradigm shifts happened?

 

The answer is even simpler - it's not through politics or economics or sociological design - paradigm shifts have always happened as a result of a huge leap in technology.

 

We learn to work metal and build tools - suddenly the agricultural paradigm arises (without effort or 'design')... We create engines and the industrial revolution takes us further... We create the internet and we have an information-based society...

 

What's the next step? Well it usually happens by accident or comes in from out of nowhere.

 

Maybe free energy will be the next step - but the society that arises as a result can only arise organically - it can't be designed to the sort of extent dear old Jaque would like to think of.

 

Taoist principles are very simple and very complex... life on earth is a duality - if you try to stamp out all 'bad' it will arise where you're not looking. (good and bad always try to reach equilibrium!)

 

We've lived a life with very little work, lots of free time, and generally good health and a deep spiritual life in the past. Although it's an unpopular idea - but as hunter/gatherers we worked between 2 to 4 hours a day and spent the rest of the time singing, dancing, crafting, story telling, painting, spiritual practices... we didn't rape the earth of its resources... but we did die of famines every now and then - and we had to be very careful with population control (again there's no ideal society with only 'good' and no 'bad')... Have a look at the Kalahari Bushman culture - still lives a very similar lifestyle as the hunter/gatherers of the past.

 

If this is the life you want then you really do have to give up your stuff (they only 'own' what they can carry)... you also have to give up all control and live with a deep respect for the earth and the heaven and your fellow man...

 

 

Hi freeform!

 

Thanks for your great reply!

I begrudgingly do agree with you about Jacque Fresco. He does live within the concepts

he has created by his mind. It is an amazing world he has envisioned. Unfortunately as you very well

stated, the future and the future technological advancements will dictate what manifestation the

future society will become. We can only very poorly predict what will come to pass as far as technologies

influence on the future earth society. I do respect his fearlessness in having such a dream of the future.

 

What are your thoughts freeform on the technological "singularity"?

Do you think it will happen?

 

Yes I know.... we can never accurately predict what the future will bring,

but what are your thoughts anyway?

 

Peace!

[Trash Filter]

Hi TF!

 

Very interesting line of thought here.

 

I think the separation factor is a large part of why there is the thought of there being

such a thing as "free will". If we considered ourselves to be small pieces of the larger whole

would we not be more interested in an equitable solution for all parts concerned within the

whole? I think so. This is why the separation of people and countries the world over create

the illusion of everything being separate when in fact we are all living in one giant (by Human

standards) self contained biosphere where everything is entirely dependent on everything else.

We are seeing the world wide effects of this being the reality of our world right now.

There is no true separation.

If we look at it from a physics stand point(just generally, I am not a physicist! ) There is the

Time/Space continuum, the fabric so to speak of the universe. Gravity exerts it's influence upon

this fabric, which is why near very dense/ heavy objects there is the effect of a "gravity well"

the fabric of Space/Time has a depression or lower spot created by the mass of the heavy/dense object

like a planet or a star that exists there. Other objects (planets, asteroids, anything of less mass

or density, respond to the deformation in the fabric of Space /Time by being drawn towards

the heavier more massive objects. This fabric of Space/time is all around us, there is no place it does

not exist, it connects everything.... Everything. To my mind it is the reason for what scientists refer

to as "action at a distance" or "entanglement". There is an instantaneous transfer of information

over great distances that can not be accounted for using the laws of physics as we understand them now.

 

The simple explanation to me, is that we (everything ) is constantly connected by the this fabric. There is no

such thing as an "empty" space. The fabric of space time is there always. Think of it as Tao or the Force or

whatever. The fact is, nothing is truly separate we are all in a state of constant mixing and commingling

with everything we come into contact or not. The illusion of separateness is only because we lack the

sensory abilities to perceive what is happening at the quantum level of our everyday existence.

 

If MarbleHead is reading this... Yes I know the chair is real. And this information has no real

use except to open awareness of the inter connectedness of everything seen and unseen in this

universe.

 

See what a can of worms you opened TrashFilter?

 

I am enjoying the great conversation we are having very much.... Please continue!

 

 

Peace!

 

Yes, its good one!

You know I don't necessarily agree with everything the kabbalahists decide. Again, they supress knowledge and do not acknowledge the use of meditation used in the old advancements. And forget about madonna, she is just on her unrelated trip. lol Nevertheless some of the old knowledge available helps me understand some things.

 

Talking about connectedness, we got to forget about these losers of council 33 controlling the earth who got there by being the best at deception not because they were the best spiritually advanced, despite there trillions of dollars and research, they lack vision because they have never considered doing anything besides deception and never thought of relenquishing power for a future society that is sustainable for all.

We start with more detailed vision of what we want in our minds, and root our rejection of these fools- we won't take it anymore- in caution.

Tao is for all, and not for the privledged few like it has been for so long. This almost extinct knowledge is part of the problem why our desired future society is so slowly developing.

The world is a reflection of myself(ourselves), even I used to get the human trip where I would feel like withholding knowledge, power, love for ego, but now I have developed in a way where I couldn't care less about the selfish self because its never been forfilling me and all, hence my proposition- the buggers need to let her loose and why i like to share some words.

We need a society where the values are new and improved which is a massive goal, but we can start with our own consciousness. There done, i believe we can do it.

 

TF

[Birch]

we got to forget about these losers of council 33 controlling the earth who got there by being the best at deception not because they were the best spiritually advanced, despite there trillions of dollars and research, they lack vision because they have never considered doing anything besides deception and never thought of relenquishing power for a future society that is sustainable for all.

 

It's a rallying post. I agree! But I do wonder about the "spirituality" of the so-called "council of 33" - as well as those close to them and those far away from them. It's something I've been trying to fathom for quite some time.

 

I do not believe they "lack vision" either, just that their particular brand of it is not what I'd like to see happening. Although, as I speak, it is indeed underway. So is there a point at which any given person can "wake up" and start determining the best course of action for themselves (let alone the rest of the world)?

 

Doesn't the TTC say very clearly "Do you think you can change the world?" And I can't recall the answer exactly but I think it's negative. i wonder why that would be the case.

 

Oh, and wasn't Ghandi "Be the change you want to see in the world" in favour of the caste-system? I might be mistaken (as usual...)

[strawdog65]

It's a rallying post. I agree! But I do wonder about the "spirituality" of the so-called "council of 33" - as well as those close to them and those far away from them. It's something I've been trying to fathom for quite some time.

 

I do not believe they "lack vision" either, just that their particular brand of it is not what I'd like to see happening. Although, as I speak, it is indeed underway. So is there a point at which any given person can "wake up" and start determining the best course of action for themselves (let alone the rest of the world)?

 

Doesn't the TTC say very clearly "Do you think you can change the world?" And I can't recall the answer exactly but I think it's negative. i wonder why that would be the case.

 

Oh, and wasn't Ghandi "Be the change you want to see in the world" in favour of the caste-system? I might be mistaken (as usual...)

 

 

Hi Kate!

 

Ghandi was a leader against the caste system and fought for justice in regards

for the people that were called the "untouchables". He himself was raised as a member

of the caste system and was of the elite class, but he saw the wrongness of the system and

fought against it. many times going on hunger strikes to make his point.

 

As far as a time for waking up and seeing a course for the world, I think we will be confronted

with just such a situation because of the world wide monetary system collapsing.

 

Regardless of what the future Earth civilization will be, the world economy is rapidly becoming

unmanageable.

 

Our world is based on profit.

Profit is based on Scarcity.

Scarcity is often a contrived and manufacture state.

 

To change the world for the better, we need to make drastic changes to the way Values are placed.

Human life should always be of value, above profit.

 

How can we live our lives blindly enjoying the excesses we do, all the while never

thinking that because we have so much, others will have less or none at all.

 

It is the shortsightedness of living our lives with only concern for ourselves that

continues the cycle of inequity all over the world.

 

Knowing when enough is enough, one finds contentment in everyday life.

 

 

 

Peace!

[strawdog65]

Yes, its good one!

You know I don't necessarily agree with everything the kabbalahists decide. Again, they supress knowledge and do not acknowledge the use of meditation used in the old advancements. And forget about madonna, she is just on her unrelated trip. lol Nevertheless some of the old knowledge available helps me understand some things.

 

Talking about connectedness, we got to forget about these losers of council 33 controlling the earth who got there by being the best at deception not because they were the best spiritually advanced, despite there trillions of dollars and research, they lack vision because they have never considered doing anything besides deception and never thought of relenquishing power for a future society that is sustainable for all.

We start with more detailed vision of what we want in our minds, and root our rejection of these fools- we won't take it anymore- in caution.

Tao is for all, and not for the privledged few like it has been for so long. This almost extinct knowledge is part of the problem why our desired future society is so slowly developing.

The world is a reflection of myself(ourselves), even I used to get the human trip where I would feel like withholding knowledge, power, love for ego, but now I have developed in a way where I couldn't care less about the selfish self because its never been forfilling me and all, hence my proposition- the buggers need to let her loose and why i like to share some words.

We need a society where the values are new and improved which is a massive goal, but we can start with our own consciousness. There done, i believe we can do it.

 

TF

 

Hi TF!

 

It is agreed we do need major changes in the world.

The eradication of the idea of separateness is needed.

If we saw the world and everything in it in a Taoist way

as everything is part of the greater whole. That when we hurt others we

in essence hurt ourselves as well, that regardless of our physical differences

we are all equally deserving beings sharing the same small world.

That because of this interconnectedness we should feel compelled to

contribute and feel pleasure by interacting with our world in a positive

and creative way.

The elimination of borders, the mindset of us all being inhabitants of planet Earth.

The elimination of a monetary system as we now have, that is based on creating

artificial scarcity to create profits above all else.

 

I often think that if everyone alive today could see this world from space,

in person, they would come away from the experience changed forever.

 

We are one people living together on one planet.

The resources of the world belong equally to the entire world.

 

The problem is greed and the power to subjugate the masses.

 

We need a resource based economy world wide.

It would go along way to creating a more just society

the world over if all Humans were treated equally.

 

Peace!

[Birch]

"Ghandi was a leader against the caste system"

 

- oh, ok, I wonder where I got the other idea from?

 

"Scarcity is often a contrived and manufacture state."

 

- Scarcity is often a contrived and manufacture state.

 

I've been contemplating this quite a lot recently.

[strawdog65]

"Ghandi was a leader against the caste system"

 

- oh, ok, I wonder where I got the other idea from?

 

"Scarcity is often a contrived and manufacture state."

 

- Scarcity is often a contrived and manufacture state.

 

I've been contemplating this quite a lot recently.

 

Hi Kate!

 

Ahh.... I see you get it.!

 

That makes me very happy.

 

It is so hard to explain to people who are just accepting of the way

the world is meant to work.

Yes... scarcity is a contrived state.

 

Nothing is ever produced without the thought of profit... first!

Everything from food to oil to most products we buy everyday.

They produced in a controlled fashion to keep profit in the system.

To produce items that have no actual scarcity other than the natural

resources to produce these items.

 

This is where the idea of a resource based economy is entirely

different. It is a long stretch to have the world agree to such an economy,

but I fear at some not to distant point in the future, there may not be

any other choice open to the world as a means of survival, other than the

pooling together and sharing of world resources for all Humans planet wide.

 

Peace!

[Birch]

"This is where the idea of a resource based economy is entirely

different. It is a long stretch to have the world agree to such an economy,

but I fear at some not to distant point in the future, there may not be

any other choice open to the world as a means of survival, other than the

pooling together and sharing of world resources for all Humans planet wide"

 

Yeah, "long stretches" do not seem to "work" in general. I'd look up "nudging" in the UK, which means they've "got it" but one must IMO remember towards what end the "nudging" is beholden.

 

"Humans, planet wide". That's a really tough can you're trying to open. IMO.

[strawdog65]

"This is where the idea of a resource based economy is entirely

different. It is a long stretch to have the world agree to such an economy,

but I fear at some not to distant point in the future, there may not be

any other choice open to the world as a means of survival, other than the

pooling together and sharing of world resources for all Humans planet wide"

 

Yeah, "long stretches" do not seem to "work" in general. I'd look up "nudging" in the UK, which means they've "got it" but one must IMO remember towards what end the "nudging" is beholden.

 

"Humans, planet wide". That's a really tough can you're trying to open. IMO.

 

 

Ideas on what would be a future earth society?

 

The venus project is only one idea of many possibilities.

 

Anyone else seen any good ideas about creating a new society?

 

As the world depletes all available resources for the highest bidder,

the present civilization will be prone to more and more conflicts and wars.

 

At what point will the idea of sharing the worlds resources become a doable option?

 

Or, is a collapse of the world economy and massive conflict between the have

and have not's necessary to change peoples minds and create a paradigm shift?

 

Ideas?

Comments?

[Trash Filter]

Hey straw

 

It's a pretty radical idea, but i see our society as an experiment.

 

From a mega brainwashed, contaminated, threatened, ignorant state we have to show we can come together and grow up spiritually to a high state. Perhaps the good and bad forces are the different ingredients in the lab that strengthens the test subject? And perhaps the very old scientist has the test subject in its long term best interest? Nevertheless, this is the only way- we got to continue to stop fighting and get caught up in the dramas and experience life as the omniscient observer/activator. Later, amnesty might be absolutely necessary for some of the controlling madmen, so that the future society can shed its skin and let her rip.

 

TF

[strawdog65]

Hey straw

 

It's a pretty radical idea, but i see our society as an experiment.

 

From a mega brainwashed, contaminated, threatened, ignorant state we have to show we can come together and grow up spiritually to a high state. Perhaps the good and bad forces are the different ingredients in the lab that strengthens the test subject? And perhaps the very old scientist has the test subject in its long term best interest? Nevertheless, this is the only way- we got to continue to stop fighting and get caught up in the dramas and experience life as the omniscient observer/activator. Later, amnesty might be absolutely necessary for some of the controlling madmen, so that the future society can shed its skin and let her rip.

 

TF

 

 

Hi TF,

Thanks for the great comments and observations.I believe that the fighting we see,

the "survival" attitude is caused by the inequity of the system we have. Why any Human being should have to

prove their worth or value so that they may live, eat, have shelter, and education, I don't know.

 

The new Zeitgeist movie is out released last week!

It's called "Zeitgeist moving forward" and can be watched for free on youtube.

 

Please check it out!

I haven't watched it yet myself, but will this weekend!

[joeblast]