What Would The Sage Do?

[manitou]

I think it would be nice if we kept a chain like this up so that we can take a whack at actual real life situations, applying the concepts of the Tao. Please feel free to comment on this situation or add one of your own to the mix.

 

 

Situation 1: The Sage's mother is losing it from Alzheimer's and her mother has been the family trustee forever. It was taken out of the Sage's mother's hands by the Sage's brother most recently, a good qualified fellow and an attorney to boot who handled the legalities himself. The Sage was a little baffled that the brother didn't tell the Sage that he was doing this, although the Sage had previously moved out of state and away from the whole friggin situation. Now the Sage notices that the brother is getting a bit cocky and incommunicative about financial things involving the trust, but the Sage is awfully far away and really isn't in a position to do anything effective anyway. Kind and gentle friends, What Would The Sage Do?

[Otis]

Situation 1: The Sage's mother is losing it from Alzheimer's and her mother has been the family trustee forever. It was taken out of the Sage's mother's hands by the Sage's brother most recently, a good qualified fellow and an attorney to boot who handled the legalities himself. The Sage was a little baffled that the brother didn't tell the Sage that he was doing this, although the Sage had previously moved out of state and away from the whole friggin situation. Now the Sage notices that the brother is getting a bit cocky and incommunicative about financial things involving the trust, but the Sage is awfully far away and really isn't in a position to do anything effective anyway. Kind and gentle friends, What Would The Sage Do?

This is a nice game; thanks for starting it.

 

My take on situation 1: The sage starts always by building bridges, so when she approaches her brother, she does so with an offer: how can I help? No demands are made upon the brother for information; instead, the sage wins his confidence by demonstrating how much she is on his team. As events unfold, she will find natural opportunities to ask questions and discover details, all without ever making her brother a bad guy, or someone to leverage into an outcome.

 

Beyond that, her actions, I think would have to arise from the situation that would exist then, so it's no good trying to look too far forward.

[Ninpo-me-this-ninjutsu-me-that]

I think it would be nice if we kept a chain like this up so that we can take a whack at actual real life situations, applying the concepts of the Tao. Please feel free to comment on this situation or add one of your own to the mix.

 

 

Situation 1: The Sage's mother is losing it from Alzheimer's and her mother has been the family trustee forever. It was taken out of the Sage's mother's hands by the Sage's brother most recently, a good qualified fellow and an attorney to boot who handled the legalities himself. The Sage was a little baffled that the brother didn't tell the Sage that he was doing this, although the Sage had previously moved out of state and away from the whole friggin situation. Now the Sage notices that the brother is getting a bit cocky and incommunicative about financial things involving the trust, but the Sage is awfully far away and really isn't in a position to do anything effective anyway. Kind and gentle friends, What Would The Sage Do?

 

I don't suppose this sage is you by any chance is it manitou?

 

This kind of reminds me of a 'what would Jesus do?' kind of thing.

 

It's a good idea though, it could go far.

[Marblehead]

I had a similar experience when my mom passed.

 

I said nothing and just waited for my oldest brother to make things right.

 

(Of course, there are some people who never get it right.)

 

(I wonder if the Sage in situation #1 is concerned for the mother's well-being or is concerned that the brother will get a bigger piece of the pie.)

[manitou]

God! I love this! I love stripping myself naked in front of total strangers! It's like an AA meeting all over again!

 

Yes, you clever foxes. It's about the pie. The sage is due 1/3 the inheritence and should have mentioned that the first go-round. It is all about the money in this particular question. I don't pretend that it's about Mom - she's quite well taken care of, and she gets my attention daily, albeit from across the country.

 

The sage is thinking more of protecting her financial interests, which is probably very un-sagelike. The sage will have to make the decision whether to trust the brother to naturally do the fair thing for everyone involved - essentially "Do Nothing" as Da Ching would say. That is what the sage will likely do. But if the sage doesn't stay in the elevated mindset things could so south badly and she will become way too human and be a crazy woman because as much as she likes to think that she can walk away from the control of a relatively large chunk of change and not be attached at all, this is one hell of a test.

 

And yet something inside her knows that she could do that and be just fine...

[Aaron]

I hope things work out for you Manitou. I know when my father passed on, he had made me executor of his will. I was only 21 years old, the youngest of the children (two minutes younger than my twin to be exact) and not so wise. I couldn't understand why he had chosen me (I wasn't even his favorite child). In the end I let everyone have what they wanted, no arguments. I was more concerned with my father's passing than what he owned. Now, many years later, I understand that's what my father knew, that of all the kids, I was the most sensitive (sentimental) and that I valued him more than what he had, that I would give the others what they wanted, rather than horde everything for myself. Today I have nothing of my father's, except for his memory, but that's enough really.

 

 

Aaron

Edited December 28, 2010 by Twinner

[Marblehead]

... because as much as she likes to think that she can walk away from the control of a relatively large chunk of change and not be attached at all, this is one hell of a test.

 

And yet something inside her knows that she could do that and be just fine...

 

I really don't like to say that we are constantly being tested but I will say that we are always being offered the opportunity to learn and advance to a purer state.

 

Wu wei and all that stuff. Hehehe.

 

I think that peace of mind after the fact should be a strong consideration.

[Easy]

Like M-head I had a similar situation when my mother came to the conclusion that she no longer had sufficient faculties of memory to take care of her own affairs. She immediately gave my older sister (who lives in the same community and who is the executor of her will) power of attorney over her assets. At the same time there was mutual agreement between the three of us that at the first opportunity (I live on another continent) my sister, mother and I would amend that POA to include me as an equal signer and the back-up executor...it was a two-day process in which we all had to be present and attuned to thinking like The Law wants its minions to think. (And every 10 minutes reminding my mother what we were doing and why we were doing it...her genius comes in 10-minute bursts and then she's adrift.)

 

I say it is similar in that the legal/financial facts more or less match. What doesn't match is that it is not "a whole frigging situation," and no one did anything clandestinely. Everything was done in an atmosphere of respect, responsibility, maturity, openness, intelligence and love. Those qualities, after all, were the original ground for this family's existence and perpetuation.

 

The Sage knows that all movement flows from an original ground and if the ground is not healthy or remade to be healthy nothing healthy will flow from it. If that fails the next solution is the private application of coercion, guilt and shame. Plan C: Lawyers, Guns and Money, or the Sage can wimp-out and suck her thumb.

[manitou]

 

I say it is similar in that the legal/financial facts more or less match. What doesn't match is that it is not "a whole frigging situation," and no one did anything clandestinely. Everything was done in an atmosphere of respect, responsibility, maturity, openness, intelligence and love. Those qualities, after all, were the original ground for this family's existence and perpetuation.

 

The Sage knows that all movement flows from an original ground and if the ground is not healthy or remade to be healthy nothing healthy will flow from it. If that fails the next solution is the private application of coercion, guilt and shame. Plan C: Lawyers, Guns and Money, or the Sage can wimp-out and suck her thumb.

 

Actually, this has been a bit enlightening for me. Thank you everybody for your wonderful comments....

 

Does anyone know of another Sage in a bit of turmoil?

 

 

Oh, Easy, that is balm for my soul. Thank you so much.

 

First of all, you're right. It wasn't a 'whole friggin situation'. It was me that wasn't getting my way at the moment, and I moved out of state because of it. The Sage absolutely brought this on herself. The family, as yours, set this trust up in loving consideration of everyone involved; the bait my brother and I snap at is that it just sits there. I am no different than he, and if I were suddenly entrusted with the responsibility I would be vibrating a bit and acting a little funny until things settled down.

 

The Sage will take one day at a time and respond in love at each opportunity. You are absolutely right. Nothing healthy can flow from family strife. The Sage will not allow her peace to be ruffled by this attachment. The Sage may have to choose one day between attachment and non-attachment in this matter, and she will do her best to make the right decision for all involved.

 

Or the Sage can wimp out and suck her thumb. This conjures a bit of self-pity, so she won't grasp at this analogy. Maybe she should just Do Nothing.

Edited December 28, 2010 by manitou

[manitou]

Somehow I managed to get the last couple sentences of my reply into Easy's square. What I wanted to say to everyone is that this has been a little enlightening for me. Thank you for being the holder of the mirrors, Bums. I feel better balanced about the whole thing.

 

Are there any other present-day Sage stories?

[gendao]

I am no different than he, and if I were suddenly entrusted with the responsibility I would be vibrating a bit and acting a little funny until things settled down.

 

The Sage will take one day at a time and respond in love at each opportunity. You are absolutely right. Nothing healthy can flow from family strife.

 

Maybe she should just Do Nothing.

The traits of the Brother that bother the Sage are merely traits of her own that bother herself. For he is merely reflecting and resonating those unresolved issues within herself.

 

And don't be mistaken. Doing nothing here...will simply do nothing. Just like moving away did... Conflict avoidance solves nothing and only allows the problems to fester.

 

Whereas if the Sage were to resolve these issues within herself, then this would also help to resolve her conflict with her brother (merely a projection of the former) and thus all the family strife that has resulted from that. And in this way, something VERY HEALTHY for all involved could flow from such family strife! All strife is an opportunity for growth if you can resolve and learn from it.

Edited December 29, 2010 by vortex

[zurdoki]

Hi Manitou, I think the Sage would take one day at a time and express love at each opportunity, who knows what will happen . Any

number of possibilities could spring up ; be fluid , be harmony . When the Sage moves the gates are open.

 

 

Ok Sage Manitou may I introduce a new situation.

 

Situation 2

 

The wiley old Sage is in the market place, some movement garners his attention , Its 3 ninjas attacking a fellow shopper. He sees him

knocked to the ground , ending up unconcious . At that moment the 3 ninjas are moving on to do what seems like more damage. He gets a vision the guy is about to die. Now this is about 10 meters away. He has just enough time to interperet his vision and act or not.

 

What does he do? How does he do it?

 

Well to throw something else into the mix. Ten minutes after his vision he has an encounter with the bright spirits ( shen , angels , the

1,000 soldiers , you get my drift.) Telling him that it was a test. So you have some hindsight . Do you think it would alter your decision?

 

 

 

[Easy]

The traits of the Brother that bother the Sage are merely traits of her own that bother herself. For he is merely reflecting and resonating those unresolved issues within herself.

 

The wise and insightful Sage knows this is not always the case and in fact it might be read as more than just a little semi-wise condescension.

 

A knowingly honest sage will understand that her fear of another stealing from herself and her mother probably arises from an instinct; an awareness that instincts are the first responders that tell the intellect that something in the environment is wrong. Anger is likewise an instinct and likewise valuable. Now if these instincts result in nothing more than the Sage obsessively zoning out in revenge fantasies while at work or pacing the floor at night, tearing her hair and rending her garments then the issue is, as Vortex says, probably a projection from her shadow and she should step down from Sagehood and sign on with the first Jungian shrink who comes her way (all the while knowing that in one's life nothing is merely a "merely ..." no matter what someone else might write).

[Taomeow]

Are there any other present-day Sage stories?

 

yes, this book:

A Thousand Pieces of Gold: Growing Up Through China's Proverbs by Adeline Yen Mah, besides being a most wonderful foray into Chinese history and its never-ending relevance for the present, is the story of the author being cheated out of her inheritance by a brother conspiring with a sister. A sage in her own right, educated by a taoist grandfather, Yen Mah did do something about the situation. It was too late to get her share of the inheritance as she only found out about the conspiracy post factum. So she told her brother, I'm going to write a book about it... and did. No one in the family is on speaking terms with her anymore. But she made enough money to buy her ancestral residence, and enough of an impression to get three of her readers (two Chinese, one American) to volunteer to restore it to its original pristine condition.

[TheSongsofDistantEarth]

The sage is dispassionate about money, but the Sage is not an easy mark, either. The Sage asserts herself for that which is her due, doesn't let emotions hold sway, but rather stays clear and direct and in the present (Think'Clarity and Directness Now'). The sage is not discouraged or dissuaded, but stays focused and persistent, refusing to be rebuffed.

[manitou]

Oh that's wonderful TaoMeow. I've missed you! Have you been gone somewhere? Thank you everyone for your suggestions. Vortex, as to finding something in my brother that mirrors something distasteful that I have inside, I'd be happy to do this but there's nothing inside my brother that is distasteful. He's a great guy, albeit when there's any family strife he merely ignores everybody - this is the only thing that gets my goat.

 

Looking deeper inside, I believe that my frustration comes as a result of my aging, my reduction in power within the family decisions. He is much more equipped to handle the decisions and I've got to get used to that. I now see it as a loss of control issue and it's a little painful to see your own capacities slipping away. Actually, truth be known, I think I'm following my mother into a dementia state in some areas of my life. On one hand, this is disturbing. On the other hand, it makes following the Tao easier. Each day is truly a separate compartment now.

 

But that's interesting. With an Alzheimer's patient yesterday, today, and tomorrow all blend into one. She's happy as a pig in mud on any given day; it's the people around her that tear their hair out. Is this not the Tao at work? Maybe Alzheimer's is the one sure path to total enlightenment, LOL.

[manitou]

The sage is dispassionate about money, but the Sage is not an easy mark, either. The Sage asserts herself for that which is her due, doesn't let emotions hold sway, but rather stays clear and direct and in the present (Think'Clarity and Directness Now'). The sage is not discouraged or dissuaded, but stays focused and persistent, refusing to be rebuffed.

 

 

I think this is absolutely perfect.

[manitou]

 

Situation 2

 

The wiley old Sage is in the market place, some movement garners his attention , Its 3 ninjas attacking a fellow shopper. He sees him

knocked to the ground , ending up unconcious . At that moment the 3 ninjas are moving on to do what seems like more damage. He gets a vision the guy is about to die. Now this is about 10 meters away. He has just enough time to interperet his vision and act or not.

 

What does he do? How does he do it?

 

Well to throw something else into the mix. Ten minutes after his vision he has an encounter with the bright spirits ( shen , angels , the

1,000 soldiers , you get my drift.) Telling him that it was a test. So you have some hindsight . Do you think it would alter your decision?

 

I'm not sure I see the question here...it seems like the sage has a couple choices - does he attend to the injured party, or does he go after the attackers? This question probably weighs heavier on a TaoBum that is into the martial arts. My first instinct is that as one of the Sage's treasures is Love, his instinct would be to attend to the ailing shopper and not worry about the attackers. He would know that the attackers will attract to them what they need. His time to take a stand would have been at the time of the actual attack and not to pursue it down the street, particularly if there is someone ailing.

 

I feel like I'm missing the point of the situation somehow....

[Otis]

Situation #3: the poor-parking Sage.

 

So, let's suppose the Sage, coming home late at night, has been sloppy in her parking. She has accidentally grazed and dented the door of an expensive-looking car (owners unknown). She has the opportunity to re-park elsewhere, with no one the wiser, and hope that the driver of the other car has comprehensive insurance. Or she can leave a note on the car, taking responsibility and paying for the damage (and let's assume for this situation that the sage is pretty poor). At this moment, "getting away with it" feels like the path of least resistance. What does she do?

[TheSongsofDistantEarth]

Situation #3: the poor-parking Sage.

 

So, let's suppose the Sage, coming home late at night, has been sloppy in her parking. She has accidentally grazed and dented the door of an expensive-looking car (owners unknown). She has the opportunity to re-park elsewhere, with no one the wiser, and hope that the driver of the other car has comprehensive insurance. Or she can leave a note on the car, taking responsibility and paying for the damage (and let's assume for this situation that the sage is pretty poor). At this moment, "getting away with it" feels like the path of least resistance. What does she do?

 

 

Ummm, tell her brother in no uncertain terms that she is due her proper share of her inheritance?

 

(Actually, a sage acts with integrity, and the answer to your question is obvious. What does this have to do with the topic at hand?)

[zurdoki]

I'm not sure I see the question here...it seems like the sage has a couple choices - does he attend to the injured party, or does he go after the attackers? This question probably weighs heavier on a TaoBum that is into the martial arts. My first instinct is that as one of the Sage's treasures is Love, his instinct would be to attend to the ailing shopper and not worry about the attackers. He would know that the attackers will attract to them what they need. His time to take a stand would have been at the time of the actual attack and not to pursue it down the street, particularly if there is someone ailing.

 

I feel like I'm missing the point of the situation somehow....

 

 

 

... No I don't think you missed the point. This is a true story lightly disguised as fiction. I feel the sage would have went on instinct then stayed with their instinct. Also if I could point out that not all sages are warriors , not all warriors are sages. And a sages intuition in the flow

as in what gets you into a situation, will get you out out of it. I really dont know though. Just to see what the sage would do?

I took a course of action as you suggested ...

[manitou]

Situation #3: the poor-parking Sage.

 

So, let's suppose the Sage, coming home late at night, has been sloppy in her parking. She has accidentally grazed and dented the door of an expensive-looking car (owners unknown). She has the opportunity to re-park elsewhere, with no one the wiser, and hope that the driver of the other car has comprehensive insurance. Or she can leave a note on the car, taking responsibility and paying for the damage (and let's assume for this situation that the sage is pretty poor). At this moment, "getting away with it" feels like the path of least resistance. What does she do?

 

 

Songs, we're kind of doing hypothetical situations about What Would The Sage Do, and hopefully we've finished with the first one. I'm still dusting off. As to this one...

 

 

Well, this is where the rubber meets the road. Character is what you do when other people aren't looking. Can we make the sage a guy this time? The sage has peace of heart because he lives right action. Anything less than total honesty he wouldn't be the Sage. The money part of it is unfortunate for the Sage, but if he is impeccable and his intent is right, something surplus will probably come in from the other direction anyway.

[manitou]

SITUATION #4: The arachnophobic Sage

 

The Sage goes to a motel out in the desert but finds a mama spider with her hatching babies in the shower stall. He is arachnophobic through no fault of his own, when he was young someone put a spider down the back of his shirt. He certainly doesn't want to kill the spiders but also he wants to sleep without fear. He could change rooms but if he calls the manager he knows maintainance would probably kill the spiders.

 

Would a sage even be arachnophobic?

 

What would his night look like?

[Otis]

SITUATION #4: The arachnophobic Sage

 

The Sage goes to a motel out in the desert but finds a mama spider with her hatching babies in the shower stall. He is arachnophobic through no fault of his own, when he was young someone put a spider down the back of his shirt. He certainly doesn't want to kill the spiders but also he wants to sleep without fear. He could change rooms but if he calls the manager he knows maintainance would probably kill the spiders.

 

Would a sage even be arachnophobic?

 

What would his night look like?

I'd make their presence a chance to practice. Get really close to them, even get them on me. Since I'd be grateful that they helped me with my practice, I'd make the ending of that practice scooping them up and bringing them outdoors.

 

A similar practice that I've indulged in (and highly recommend): going through the woods alone at night, indulge in every horrible fantasy of killers, zombies, flesh-eating insects, whatever makes me want to push those thoughts away. Really play out the feared fantasy like a horror film, including imagining all the destruction to my flesh. Turns the fears into a game, and makes them seem absurd.

[manitou]

I'd make their presence a chance to practice. Get really close to them, even get them on me. Since I'd be grateful that they helped me with my practice, I'd make the ending of that practice scooping them up and bringing them outdoors.

 

A similar practice that I've indulged in (and highly recommend): going through the woods alone at night, indulge in every horrible fantasy of killers, zombies, flesh-eating insects, whatever makes me want to push those thoughts away. Really play out the feared fantasy like a horror film, including imagining all the destruction to my flesh. Turns the fears into a game, and makes them seem absurd.

 

 

That's an interesting take on the situation. It wasn't a very good situation, after all. I think there's something to this idea of WWTSD?, but I think the questions need to be more complicated. I never realized how difficult it is to come up with something out of thin air (like the above spider thing). Apparently I don't have that kind of imagination that 'creates' scenarios, like a book. It's really hard to squeeze an original scenario out. Not much of a manifester, I guess!

 

Actually, I'm not sure the sage would be arachnophibic (sp?) anyway. If a true sage is in harmony with nature would he still have an irrational fear of spiders? I don't know, maybe he would. But if the sage were afraid of spiders, your meditation idea would either kill him or cure him. Actually, I think that's the way I'd do it too - grab the bull by the horns.