"Deep" internal qi-gong

[Birch]

Hey qi-gong experts :-)

 

I've been fiddling (as usual) with qi-gong and started to wonder if it would be a "good" - as in "healthy" thing to do if I continued doing the following:

 

- "pulsing the middle of my brain" - which is exactly what it sounds like

- running "qi" up and down the middle of my spinal column - which is also exactly what it sounds like

 

I found MCO had very definite effects on lower body "strength" and awareness for me but I find I'm kind of "wimpy" above the solar plexus.

 

I also "should" be working on my legs but for some reason it's a horrible crawly sensation I end up with, so I've been waffling around with other bits.

 

What do you reckon?

[phore]

have you tried the tendon/muscle changing qigong and the bone/marrow washing qigong. The shaolin monks use it to develop strength for kung fu training.

you can find books about it from some popular authors. I treat books like scrolls and take ideas from them then develop my own approach to the qigong.

[NeiChuan]

Hm, I use to meditate on the pineal gland, got pretty good results doing that.

 

Dreamt more ect.

 

I would'nt advise bringing to much energy there though, can cause imbalance, especially if you can actually differeciate energies.

 

I think keeping these parts of the body active are good. Perhaps all one needs.

 

I mean to keep any part of the body from being neglected, through circulation and activity.

[fiveelementtao]

I would advise against experimenting with anything like this without a teacher's guidance. It is very easy to seriously injure yourself by playing around with energy in your head.

There are some good techniques and teachings for using energy in the ways you describe but there is also considerable danger if done improperly... It is possible to permanently and severly injure yourself.

[dawei]

Hey qi-gong experts :-)

 

I've been fiddling (as usual) with qi-gong and started to wonder if it would be a "good" - as in "healthy" thing to do if I continued doing the following:

 

- "pulsing the middle of my brain" - which is exactly what it sounds like

- running "qi" up and down the middle of my spinal column - which is also exactly what it sounds like

 

I found MCO had very definite effects on lower body "strength" and awareness for me but I find I'm kind of "wimpy" above the solar plexus.

 

I also "should" be working on my legs but for some reason it's a horrible crawly sensation I end up with, so I've been waffling around with other bits.

 

What do you reckon?

Your comments make me feel your interests are in regards to Medical Qigong. I would explore this training somewhere.

 

Your 'pulsing the middle of the brain' is a bit similar to the Taiji Pole which connects from the crown to root chakra, connecting all three Dan Tians.

 

Running qi up and down the spine has it's practice but not sure which direction you have used. In Medical Qigong, there is the 100 day 'MCO Burn' where you run it up the spine (inhale) and then over the head back to the lower dan tian (exhale).

 

Leg's and the crawly sensation. When do you mostly feel that, waking in the morning? Maybe need to practice much more "clearing" through the feet or circulation. I found that to help.

[Gerard]

A better method would be:

 

Following your breath down and up again as slowly as you can and make it very conscious feeling every bit of the process. Then pay careful attention to the sensations that it may awaken: everything from physical to mental.

 

In addition extend the time you spend on meditation. 10 minutes is nothing compared to meditating 2 weeks in a row non-stop, which is very high level Qigong. The benefits you will get in this last instance are enormous.

[Otis]

I've been fiddling (as usual) with qi-gong and started to wonder if it would be a "good" - as in "healthy" thing to do if I continued doing the following:

 

- "pulsing the middle of my brain" - which is exactly what it sounds like

- running "qi" up and down the middle of my spinal column - which is also exactly what it sounds like

Why these exercises? What do you get out of it?

[exorcist_1699]

The degree of difficulties ( in some sense , danger to you ) does correspond to where you start :

 

1) from the lower dantian ( your abdomen)

 

2) from the upper dantian ( any part of your head)

 

3) from emptiness ( before your eyes or somewhere outside you)

 

4) from nowhere

 

Not so many masters teach people to start from the upper dantian because it is very difficult to manipulate the degree of concentration, and in bad case, it leads to high blood pressure or other diseases.

 

" What is the danger of starting from nowhere? " You may argue .

 

Of course, starting from nowhere unlikely gives you any dangers. As the main Zen method, it either leads to divinity or unproductive dullness which , despite giving you some sense of vanity that you know the truth of Zen , in fact, wastes your precious time in such a short life.

Edited January 4, 2011 by exorcist_1699

[Sunya]

I would advise against experimenting with anything like this without a teacher's guidance. It is very easy to seriously injure yourself by playing around with energy in your head.

There are some good techniques and teachings for using energy in the ways you describe but there is also considerable danger if done improperly... It is possible to permanently and severly injure yourself.

 

Who do you know that has actually permanently and severely injured themselves doing something like that? I hear a lot of these warnings but I've never actually heard of anyone injuring themselves. What could possibly happen? The body is self-correcting.

[markern]

Hey qi-gong experts :-)

 

I've been fiddling (as usual) with qi-gong and started to wonder if it would be a "good" - as in "healthy" thing to do if I continued doing the following:

 

- "pulsing the middle of my brain" - which is exactly what it sounds like

- running "qi" up and down the middle of my spinal column - which is also exactly what it sounds like

 

I found MCO had very definite effects on lower body "strength" and awareness for me but I find I'm kind of "wimpy" above the solar plexus.

 

I also "should" be working on my legs but for some reason it's a horrible crawly sensation I end up with, so I've been waffling around with other bits.

 

What do you reckon?

 

THe spine stuff sounds like ayp spinal breathing. Almost. Very powerfull practice.

 

About brain stuff you could contact internal student. It is his specialty

[Ya Mu]

I would advise against experimenting with anything like this without a teacher's guidance. It is very easy to seriously injure yourself by playing around with energy in your head.

There are some good techniques and teachings for using energy in the ways you describe but there is also considerable danger if done improperly... It is possible to permanently and severly injure yourself.

 

Who do you know that has actually permanently and severely injured themselves doing something like that? I hear a lot of these warnings but I've never actually heard of anyone injuring themselves. What could possibly happen? The body is self-correcting.

Only little minor things like super paranoia and other mental problems. Headaches that won't go away. Over heart stimulation (HBP), and several other suspected symptoms difficult to pin down. Only one so far that would pass out upon concentrating on anything,such as trying to read a book or driving. Only one so far who went into uncontrolled spasticity.

[joeblast]

Who do you know that has actually permanently and severely injured themselves doing something like that? I hear a lot of these warnings but I've never actually heard of anyone injuring themselves. What could possibly happen? The body is self-correcting.

I've heard this question asked and answered a few times - and I've always heard the same thing, be it from BKF, Max, YJM, distilled in some fashion from WLP. Of course there's nobody immediately available to grab by the collar to hold up for everyone to go "see?" But even though the body does have self-correcting capabilities, if you manage to build yourself up some juice and play with your brain-energies in a haphazard manner and dont bring the energy back out of the head, nerves can be "burned" by too much qi. You need to "condition the circuits" properly - if you've never received any instruction, how are you to know if what you're doing is beneficial or potentially harmful?

 

IMHO if you're going to do anything of this sort without having personal instruction, perhaps make it a simple extension of dantien breathing - just like you breathe to the dantien, extend to a heart center breath, extend to a wisdom eye/seat of awareness breath, but it cant be stressed enough that anything you do inside the head like that must be done extremely gently, otherwise you're only asking for headaches and possibly worse. Always spend time bringing the energy back down when done, equal to the time you did the practice if short, 15, 20 minutes if longer.

[markern]

Only little minor things like super paranoia and other mental problems. Headaches that won't go away. Over heart stimulation (HBP), and several other suspected symptoms difficult to pin down. Only one so far that would pass out upon concentrating on anything,such as trying to read a book or driving. Only one so far who went into uncontrolled spasticity.

 

What do you do to fix someone like that? Is it curable.? Can they do medical qigong? Can a healer work on them or will it get worse?

[Ya Mu]

What do you do to fix someone like that? Is it curable.? Can they do medical qigong? Can a healer work on them or will it get worse?

It depends on the person, which of the problems, how long the problems have been going on, and the capabilities of the healer. A medical qigong healer can address, to a certain point, most of these. But it will not help if the person continues.

[Birch]

Thanks for all the replies.

 

If I said that it's because that's where "it wants" to go, would I sound like a nutcase? Oh wait, I already do, most of the time

 

It's all sort of a spontaneous thing, but given that jumping off the top of a large building could also be deemed "a spontaneous thing" I wanted to get some feedback on potential risks from people who have experience doing "controlled jumps".

 

This also begs an interesting (to me at least) question of why "it" would want to go somewhere potentially hazardous...

[Eric23]

For the legs and extremities, check out pawanmuktasana sequences. They do a wonderful job of opening up the ankles, wrists, elbows etc. The major meridians start at the toes or fingers and go from there. You'd be surprised at the "creaky ness" that could be lingering in those areas.

[Otis]

Thanks for all the replies.

 

If I said that it's because that's where "it wants" to go, would I sound like a nutcase?

I think that's the best reply you could give.

 

It's all sort of a spontaneous thing, but given that jumping off the top of a large building could also be deemed "a spontaneous thing" I wanted to get some feedback on potential risks from people who have experience doing "controlled jumps".

 

This also begs an interesting (to me at least) question of why "it" would want to go somewhere potentially hazardous...

I'm a huge believer in following "it", and my experience is that "it" doesn't lead me to injury, despite stretches (for example) that my head thinks are going too far. As long as you're not pushing yourself after some conceptual goal, but following your inner guidance, I think you'll do great. Even if you tire, get sloppy and cause a headache or whatever, it'll help remind you to keep to your guide. Good luck!

[VCraigP]

Thanks for all the replies.

 

If I said that it's because that's where "it wants" to go, would I sound like a nutcase? Oh wait, I already do, most of the time

 

It's all sort of a spontaneous thing, but given that jumping off the top of a large building could also be deemed "a spontaneous thing" I wanted to get some feedback on potential risks from people who have experience doing "controlled jumps".

 

This also begs an interesting (to me at least) question of why "it" would want to go somewhere potentially hazardous...

 

Kate

 

Your first post and your most recent reflect entirely different conditions.

 

"Trying" to pulse in your brain is one thing.

Saying energy "wants" to go somewhere is quite a bit different, if that is really the case.

 

In order to better answer it would be helpful to know what your practice is that results in energy "wanting" to pulse in the brain. What is your start and end point?

 

Big difference between efforting such a result and experiencing a sensation in your brain as a result of other practice. However if any/all practice create this result I would opine that it would be better to back off to a simple Lower Tantien focus meditation for a while. Perhaps subconsciously you want to experience "controlled" jumping off of bridges and such desire results in this attention going somewhere. Or perhaps this is just a temporary result of whatever it is you are practicing.

 

bottom line though is that for real analysis (short of remote viewing :-) ) one would need more info, and that there is a big difference between trying to make something happen and something happening by itself as a result of practice.

 

FWIW

 

Craig

[Birch]

Thanks Craig!

 

It originates from just "letting it happen" meditation (I don't know what the technique is called) - associated with belly breathing.

 

When it happens, then I wonder about intentionally "doing" it. As if there might be a benefit of some kind. Like MCO has tangible physical benefits. Like "dissolving" has tangible emotional/mental benefits. That kind of thing.

 

It happens quite a lot and what I do as a result is very variable. I guess it sort of depends on what it seems to be. In some cases I'll "move" from just letting whatever it is come up to active dissolving or simply "going there" with my awareness - if the feeling is that I feel like "backing off" I may actively "go there" and invite it to play itself out.

 

The "goal" is really to release all of the "stuck" stuff. I don't know the name for that either.

 

"Mental hygiene"?

[Trunk]

imho,

 

Going up & down the spine is a good thing, as is pulsing the center of the brain. It's related to central channel practice. However, there are a number of potent points along the path and a basic strategy would be to enliven them in a balanced fashion.

 

There. 2 cents.

[fiveelementtao]

Who do you know that has actually permanently and severely injured themselves doing something like that? I hear a lot of these warnings but I've never actually heard of anyone injuring themselves. What could possibly happen?

You want names? I don't do that. However, just on this forum and on one other forum there have been numerous people who caused themselves not only physical problems like splitting headaches that don't go away, Tingling and numbness in the extremities, insomnia, intense fear, anxiety, not to mention major psychological issues like frightening hallucinations. Some experienced what they perceived as demonic attacks and hauntings from playing around with the pineal gland. and that was after learning from an instructor. So, if these kinds of things can happen when someone practices proven techniques improperly it stands to reason that someone can cause themselves problems just by experimenting on their own.

 

The body is self-correcting.

Sure, but that doesn't mean that it is advisable to stick needles in your eyes or smash yourself in the head with a brick. Even the body's self-corrective capabilities have limitations especially if someone continues with harmful techniques... It is still possible to cause oneself irreparable damage...

 

But it is not even necessary to employ these techniques. One can achieve very high levels of energy attainment without using techniques that stimulate the upper centers directly. Any "basic" qigong if done correctly over time will eventually reach these centers naturally and safely.

 

As I wrote in another thread, our grandmaster told some of us that he himself practices one standing posture every day for 45 minutes. That is his highest practice. Basic stuff like lower dan tien breathing and standing postures will open all the meridians safely and in the proper order...

[宁]

imho,

 

Going up & down the spine is a good thing, as is pulsing the center of the brain. It's related to central channel practice. However, there are a number of potent points along the path and a basic strategy would be to enliven them in a balanced fashion.

 

There. 2 cents.

 

Agreed!

 

Also, you should keep in mind that not having a regular practice allows your body to express its ups and downs, the flows and the ebbs more naturally, and it's (body's) wisdom can teach you alot more that an... over imposed system - by this i mean the case when a guy THINKS this or that practice is good for him, but the body believes otherwise.

There are alot of nuts out there, let me tell ya.

And just because the nuts go nuts, you shouldn't be wary of dreadful warnings.

 

[Birch]

More and more interesting replies. Thank you!

 

I can figure why a "progression" might be suggested. Although that notion itself seems IMO a bit "off" - given the nature of what one is working with. Kind of what Little1 1 was referring to and it also reminded me of TaoMeow's post about dancing.

 

When it runs by itself I don't bother with symmetry (unless the physical/emotional/symbolic part is the symmetrical counterpoint...just thinking aloud).

 

However, when you mull it over, you might also consider that wherever your energy happens to be focused on in the body, probably also has its correlates all over the brain and nervous-system. So "technically" wouldn't one be "inside" the brain as much as anywhere else? Maybe not, I guess that's the point

 

I'm not particularly interested in the freaky-sounding side effects. I know it sounds alarmist, but I doubt that Ya Mu would suggest to back off unless he'd had experience with it. Which I'm almost sure he has. However, I'd like some other experts to chime in. I know there's a bunch on this board.

 

Just to provoke somewhat, but hopefully in a way that everyone benefits from, instead of saying "get a teacher" for queries it would be refreshing (for me at least) to read some "I don't know"s if that's the truth. Or maybe, "I tried it and was fine but my student did it and here's why it messed him/her up and didn't for me".

 

I know some people on this board get paid as teachers but I don't think it would be detrimental to their business if they answered a technical question. Maybe to the contrary, it might show off a level of mastery that would bring in some students.

[Jetsun]

From the perspective of most of the healing Qigong methods I have studied I think pulsing in the brain would more likely drive you insane than get you enlightened. Evidence is hard to get because it is very difficult to pin point exactly the cause of any problem but I have read many accounts of incorrect Qigong causing peoples hair to fall out as well as many bad psychological symptoms. Why try to create your own when masters spent hundreds of years working out the best methods?

[Otis]

I can figure why a "progression" might be suggested. Although that notion itself seems IMO a bit "off" - given the nature of what one is working with. Kind of what Little1 1 was referring to and it also reminded me of TaoMeow's post about dancing.

 

When it runs by itself I don't bother with symmetry (unless the physical/emotional/symbolic part is the symmetrical counterpoint...just thinking aloud).

This is a great point, and why I say: if you already have a good connection to your energetic path, then that's your best road map.

 

Symmetrical work is useful as a "one-size-fits-all" solution. But individuals are not symmetrical. Our conditioning distorts and binds us. So the needs of the body will not be symmetrical, either.

 

(My caveat to that: my right-handedness creates a bias in some practices, and I find it useful to remind myself to bring in the left).

Edited January 5, 2011 by Otis