[TTC Study] Chapter 16 of the Tao Teh Ching

[sree]

I said: Wisdom, IMO, is understanding some of the eternal processes of the universe.

 

 

I was hoping that I would be challenged on that.

 

And I am fortunate that you stepped up.

 

First to define "eternal". The period of time that this universe is in existence. (One cannot speak to what might have been before nor of what is to become.)

 

So, "eternal", to you, is the lifespan - from the beginning to the ending - of the universe which is the totality of existence as defined by western science.

 

Processes:

 

Cause and effect.

 

Conservation of energy.

 

Cycles and reversion.

 

Birth, life, and death.

 

And I agree, there is no need to "understand" these processes but I suggest that it is important to recognize them.

 

By your definition of eternal, the above processes are perceived events (as defined by western science) within the context of a comprehensible reality.

 

And you said that wisdom is the understanding of what you called "eternal processes" like cause and effect, conservation of energy, birth and death, etc.. I suppose we can throw in gravity, electromagnetism, and even life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.

 

As Mr Chi said, most people would like to have their own interpretations, of the Tao Te Ching, which is fine. And in this instance, you have your own interpretation, of what Chinese wisdom is, which is also fine.

[sree]

Self examination is to begin the self realization of one's self. There's not a sage around that hasn't done this. it's a peeling the onion proposition, a do-it-yourself project. There are many ways to get there; but most importantly it's to determine one's own motives at any given time - to look under the reasons and motivations for your own actions and your own reactions. To recapitulate how you've lived your life up to this time, to make the amends to people you've sort of screwed over in the past. To make amends here in the present, if warranted. To keep your side of the street swept off always, always attempting with everything inside you to be the channel, the voice of the Wisdom that is inherent in all of us. It's just that it's the pony at the bottom fo the manure pile. It takes some serious work to get down there. it's the very thing that gives the sage the clarity to see things as they really are, as he sees himself as he really is. Once the self is conquered all other things can be seen, as we are all One and it's merely to witness the dynamics not only in ourself but in others as well. It all springs from the same source, the Void.

 

Seems to me that this only work if there is guilt, when there is a troubled conscience, a sense of doubt and low self-esteem. You can peel the onion on your own or, if you have the money, have the therapist do it for you professionally. Do-it-yourself analysis never work. There are inspirational speakers who can get you to feel better about yourself.

 

The Tao Te Ching is not about self-help. Traditionally, in China, the guys who would pick up this Classic are pretty sharp dudes on the way to the imperial exams.

[sree]

Anybody can tranlate the DDJ, if they have the original! Gia fu Feng translated according to his own view what the characters mean't to him and so do thousands of others. The Dao is not something that can be defined as scholarly, philosophical, spiritual or practical. It is one mans view of the world and how it works and of human interaction within this. We all can do this to some extent.

 

Are you saying that what is regarded by everyone as the Tao Te Ching is not the real thing?

 

Lao Tzu of course was the incarnation of a God, he was surrounded by a culture that was destinctly shamanistic. He was enlightened, so what he said has great importance to us all in the way we live our lives. When Lao Tzu was alive in a mortal body, people persued the Dao as a way of life and anybody who was learned in this way was greatly revered. Almost all people then wanted to become wise. Now most of the Chinese want to be rich and get their first Ferrari!

 

I thought Lao Tze is a myth, a fictitious figure, and the Tao Te Ching is a compilation of literary works crafted by more than one person over a period of time in days gone by.

 

I have many times thought about writing down my own thoughts on the Dao. As the years roll by I learn something new about the world and about human nature. But I can't see myself in any way surpassing the great perception of my Master.

 

You are doing fine judging from how well you are received and held in high regard in this forum. This is the 21st century and you need to speak to a different worldview even though human nature is unchanged. Christians believe that Jesus will come again and we can be quite sure he would not be riding into town on a donkey.

 

To know the self as Lao Tzu says requires great strength, very few people have the chance to really know themselves or the ability to change. It does take a life time of a teacher showing you through circumstance and realistic situations to know something of yourself. Words are very easy to say, deeds are more difficult. The self is the greatest challenge anyone could have.

 

If it is so difficult, why do it? Amassing wealth, although not easy by any means, is doable and millions are able to do it through fair means or foul. Health and wealth are all that matter in order to get through this life without misery. If you don't agree, why not?

[flowing hands]

Are you saying that what is regarded by everyone as the Tao Te Ching is not the real thing?

 

 

 

I thought Lao Tze is a myth, a fictitious figure, and the Tao Te Ching is a compilation of literary works crafted by more than one person over a period of time in days gone by.

 

 

 

You are doing fine judging from how well you are received and held in high regard in this forum. This is the 21st century and you need to speak to a different worldview even though human nature is unchanged. Christians believe that Jesus will come again and we can be quite sure he would not be riding into town on a donkey.

 

 

 

If it is so difficult, why do it? Amassing wealth, although not easy by any means, is doable and millions are able to do it through fair means or foul. Health and wealth are all that matter in order to get through this life without misery. If you don't agree, why not?

 

Lao Tzu or Li Erh Xian Shi to give this great man his proper name, wrote down his teachings on bamboo slithers and gave them to the border keeper. What we have today is copies of this original work. In ancient times scribes used to copy works and very often put their own interpretation of what they were supposed to be copying. Hence we do not in effect have the complete original. My version transmitted to me is what he told me in English.

 

Li Erh was a real person, not because I am taught by him as proof but because it is recorded that he existed and people have traced their family back to him.

 

Jesus was a Daoist shaman like me but not so formalised as me. He was the student of an ancient Daoist Immortal called the 'Immortal of times past'. He lived in the northern heaven, which was unusual as the greater majority of Daoists live in the eastern heaven. Jesus is not coming, I have come instead and will tell people of what is to come and what is real and false. Religion is a scurge of the world along with greed and politics. People need to be led back to nature not into religion. When jesus talked about 'god' he was refering to his Immortal master, not to the creative forces that created all that there is. If he was, he would have said 'she'. The Christian church has treated women like second class citizens (still does) and yet, creativity and birth arise from the female. No heaven born religion would ever treat women in such a way. Here one can use this guide to see what is true and what is not.

 

Why is it so dificult? because people find it hard to let go of what they have and what they think, their minds are choked with greed and desire for more than what they need. Our society and most of the world is based on this. It is far harder for us today because our world is based not on the attainment of natural wisdom, but on material attainment.

 

The trouble is the way society has been based, means that for any personal choice and freedom one has to be wealthy to afford the luxury of time. We are trapped by this. I am trapped by this also, I suffer the same as everyone else. I therefore have understanding and have to snatch times to practice and cultivate. I have no person paying my bills for me so that I can spend my time in cultivation! But if we do not practice and only practice the art of making money, then how is the world going to be a better place for all living things to be in? If we don't practice to hold all life sacred, let go of our greed for unnecessary things, which means very different things to each of us, how are we to begin to open our minds and have a better understanding of ourselves, our fellow human beings and other life, let alone anything else?

[manitou]

Seems to me that this only work if there is guilt, when there is a troubled conscience, a sense of doubt and low self-esteem. You can peel the onion on your own or, if you have the money, have the therapist do it for you professionally. Do-it-yourself analysis never work. There are inspirational speakers who can get you to feel better about yourself.

 

The Tao Te Ching is not about self-help. Traditionally, in China, the guys who would pick up this Classic are pretty sharp dudes on the way to the imperial exams.

 

 

You're rght. When I originally got sober 31 years ago it was all about guilt, a troubled conscience, a sense of doubt and low self-esteem. Luckily the 12 steps of recovery got the peeling the onion process started. It has continued on its own for 31 years. Your idea of inspirational speakers isn't quite right. The words to truly heal come from within, not from without. Do-it-yourself analysis does indeed work if the motivation is pure and there is a bit of a framework that is tried and true, as the recovery process above described.

 

It's as though there are two people sitting on two sides of a river. One has his eyes closed and is insisting that there is only one shore to the river. The one on the other side can clearly see that there are two sides. Who to believe?

 

I so agree with Flowing Hands that Jesus was a shaman, just like us. We all have the potenial he had; he knew exactly who he was. Some of us are realizing that we too are him, the clues are within all of us. but the discovery of the real thing inside can't be done until the onion is peeled. Jesus peeled his onion, that's all. The magic came after.

[sree]

Lao Tzu or Li Erh Xian Shi to give this great man his proper name, wrote down his teachings on bamboo slithers and gave them to the border keeper. What we have today is copies of this original work. In ancient times scribes used to copy works and very often put their own interpretation of what they were supposed to be copying. Hence we do not in effect have the complete original. My version transmitted to me is what he told me in English.

 

This is unbelievable. I am not saying that you are lying. Is there anyone in this forum who accepts your claim? I want to keep an open mind. I need a second opinion, just one person here who buys your story before I question my own sanity. (Ok, Manitou has come forward to back you up at the time of writing this post.)

 

Li Erh was a real person, not because I am taught by him as proof but because it is recorded that he existed and people have traced their family back to him.

 

How does he teach you? Does he materialize in a séance or is he just a voice in your head?

 

Jesus was a Daoist shaman like me but not so formalised as me. He was the student of an ancient Daoist Immortal called the 'Immortal of times past'. He lived in the northern heaven, which was unusual as the greater majority of Daoists live in the eastern heaven. Jesus is not coming, I have come instead and will tell people of what is to come and what is real and false. Religion is a scurge of the world along with greed and politics. People need to be led back to nature not into religion. When jesus talked about 'god' he was refering to his Immortal master, not to the creative forces that created all that there is. If he was, he would have said 'she'. The Christian church has treated women like second class citizens (still does) and yet, creativity and birth arise from the female. No heaven born religion would ever treat women in such a way. Here one can use this guide to see what is true and what is not.

 

It seems like greed and politics are what we are: human nature. You see these basic characteristics in all other animals. Brutality is another quality that we humans have. We kill each other by the millions in the same heartless way Mother Nature does it through a tsunami, climatic storm, or terrestrial eruption.

 

Little kids have been gunned down at Sandy Hook Elementary in Connecticut. And instead of facing up to our own brutal nature we talk of evil as though it has nothing to do with us.

 

The Tao Te Ching eschews our feel-good sentiments like love, loyalty and kindness. It condemns our hypocrisy in cultivating these fake qualities.

 

Why is it so dificult? because people find it hard to let go of what they have and what they think, their minds are choked with greed and desire for more than what they need. Our society and most of the world is based on this. It is far harder for us today because our world is based not on the attainment of natural wisdom, but on material attainment.

 

Material attainment is not the goal but the by-product of our greed which is our in-born nature. Greed is also an eternal process of the universe (to use Marblehead’s turn of phrase). There is a greed for life, a greed for knowledge which, as Marblehead pointed out, is also a greed for wisdom. The difficulty stems from trying to be what we are not. We are naturally greedy and driven by desire. Stopping greed is like refusing to breathe or go to the bathroom.

 

The trouble is the way society has been based, means that for any personal choice and freedom one has to be wealthy to afford the luxury of time. We are trapped by this. I am trapped by this also, I suffer the same as everyone else. I therefore have understanding and have to snatch times to practice and cultivate. I have no person paying my bills for me so that I can spend my time in cultivation! But if we do not practice and only practice the art of making money, then how is the world going to be a better place for all living things to be in? If we don't practice to hold all life sacred, let go of our greed for unnecessary things, which means very different things to each of us, how are we to begin to open our minds and have a better understanding of ourselves, our fellow human beings and other life, let alone anything else?

 

Apparently, life is a zero sum game: some win, some lose. We prey on one another. Eat and be eaten. Watch this:

 

 

Why is life set up this way?

 

Edited December 16, 2012 by sree

[Jeff]

 

This is unbelievable. I am not saying that you are lying. Is there anyone in this forum who accepts your claim? I want to keep an open mind. I need a second opinion, just one person here who buys your story before I question my own sanity. (Ok, Manitou has come forward to back you up at the time of writing this post.)

 

 

If it makes any difference, count me in as someone who is also confident that both Lao Tzu and Jesus exist.

 

[ChiDragon]

"Why is life set up this way?"

 

 

Shouldn't we ask why is nature set up this way.....????

[manitou]

Little kids have been gunned down at Sandy Hook Elementary in Connecticut. And instead of facing up to our own brutal nature we talk of evil as though it has nothing to do with us.

 

The Tao Te Ching eschews our feel-good sentiments like love, loyalty and kindness. It condemns our hypocrisy in cultivating these fake qualities.

 

 

 

I think that talking about the concept of Evil is a dualistic approach to a non-dualistic problem. What is evil, but the nonexistence of light? To call something Evil seems to indicate that there is an intent behind the act. Perhaps there's no evil at all, just lack of enlightenment. To call something evil is to make an unnecessary judgment.

 

The TTC also eschews the fake quality of evil, to expand your thought a bit further.

 

As to greed, yes, we all have it. It may be our first thought. But our second thought is the one that counts. Do we have to act out that greed? No. Can we modify our thinking over a period of time, if we are impeccable, as don Juan Mateus says? Yes. And at some point, greed takes the back seat.

 

As to Health and Wealth, as you alluded to - yes,perhaps that is required to get through this life without misery. But that's a pretty low bar, just to be not-miserable. To find ourselves wrapped in divine love toward everyone and everything (regardless of their actions or how they feel about us) is a much higher bar, and one well worth aspiring to. it is only reached through the inner work and taming the ego and the selfish qualities within ourselves.

Edited December 16, 2012 by manitou

[sree]

If it makes any difference, count me in as someone who is also confident that both Lao Tzu and Jesus exist.

 

 

It makes a world of a difference to what we accept as right side up or upside down. I am convinced that Charles Manson is nuts. All bets are off now that you have also jumped on the bandwagon along with Manitou. How many more of you out there looking to the Northern Heaven where Jesus resides? Is there anyone else?

[sree]

"Why is life set up this way?"

 

 

Shouldn't we ask why is nature set up this way.....????

 

 

Yes,we certainly should, Mr Chi. That was what I meant to ask. Do you have an opinion on why nature is set up this way?

 

I feel that it is so unnecessary for that little baby buffalo to suffer, and so unnecessary for that lion to be so brutal to get his dinner. Why do we have a body that is vulnerable to diseases and injury? Why do we have to be arrested by Horse Face and Cow Head and taken to 閻 羅 王 ?

Edited December 16, 2012 by sree

[flowing hands]

It makes a world of a difference to what we accept as right side up or upside down. I am convinced that Charles Manson is nuts. All bets are off now that you have also jumped on the bandwagon along with Manitou. How many more of you out there looking to the Northern Heaven where Jesus resides? Is there anyone else?

 

I think it best to have an open mind and talk about things that you know about and leave things that are hidden to most to people like me.

 

I am not alone remember in my belief, I am part of a sect that has thousands if not millions of people around the world. Within this there are shamans and ordinary people who just beleive in the Immortal masters. To be factual and you're going to like this, all of the gods including jesus, Hindu and Christian saints in the norhern heaven were scooped up by the Jade Emporer and placed in a lantern that now sits on a shelf by his seat. Why? Well the silly devils wanted their religions to rule the world and make people believe in them and come under their laws and churches. No such nonsense would the Jade emporer stand. The way and nature must be the true following of people, in that way people are set free and all can go back to living with the very source of what has given us life. Where this is held sacred not a god only. Women must be given equal value and all things must be valued and no difference betweem people, whether they beg on the streets or of the highest caste.

Edited December 16, 2012 by flowing hands

[Marblehead]

Yes,we certainly should, Mr Chi. That was what I meant to ask. Do you have an opinion on why nature is set up this way?

I think you are asking an unanswerable question. Just accept that it is what it is.

[ChiDragon]

Yes,we certainly should, Mr Chi. That was what I meant to ask. Do you have an opinion on why nature is set up this way?

 

I feel that it is so unnecessary for that little baby buffalo to suffer, and so unnecessary for that lion to be so brutal to get his dinner. Why do we have a body that is vulnerable to diseases and injury?

 

Nature is Nature, anything set up by Nature is being natural. The Tao Te Ching had distinctively described four entities. Man, Earth, Heaven, and Tao. Human follows Earth; Earth follows Heaven; Heaven follows Tao and Tao follows Ziren(the natrual self) .

 

What this was saying is in order for human to follow the universe(Earth and Heaven), then human follows the principles of Tao. Human is intelligent enough to go against Nature. Human may stop the calf from eaten by the lion. Then we must ask ourselves, can the lion survive from hunger without eating the calf.....??? Nature allows the calf to be eaten by the lion. Human may interrupt Nature by saving the calf and let the lion die of hunger. However, the lion may be survived by eating something else, like a goat. Now, the goat was meant to be killed by Nature. All this hunting game was part of the course of Nature. Can human interfere with Nature by changing its course....??? I don't think so....!!! This is why Lao Tze advocate people not to interfere with Nature by following the concept of Wu Wei.

 

One might ask, is the killing done by the lion interfering with Nature...??? The answer is no because the lion is wild which is part of its nature. BTW Anything was beyond control by human was considered to be natural. Anything done by human harmful or good to Nature was considered to be interrupting the course of Nature by the definition of Wu Wei. Indeed, Lao Tze was more concern about the harm than the good to Nature by human.

Edited December 16, 2012 by ChiDragon

[sree]

I think you are asking an unanswerable question. Just accept that it is what it is.

 

Being a lesser mortal, I may have to. But the answer is not hidden from the immortals (like Jeff, Manitou and Flowing Hands) in this forum. I have to keep an open mind and seek knowledge (from them) as you advocated.

 

Where do you stand? Are you in that bandwagon with Jeff and company or just a dumbass like me?

[sree]

There is very little sense in trying to apply human morality to animals and nature, in the same way that there is little sense in trying to apply animal morality to humans. We function on different levels and our actions have different purposes. The lion and the buffalo are in balance.

 

Are we not animals? Our biology is pretty similar to other mammals. Physical pain is a common denominator. You would react instinctively to that lion attack exactly like that baby buffalo: terror. And your experience would be exactly the same: excruciating pain. So, why this double standard?

[sree]

Nature is Nature, anything set up by Nature is being natural. The Tao Te Ching had distinctively described four entities. Man, Earth, Heaven, and Tao. Human follows Earth; Earth follows Heaven; Heaven follows Tao and Tao follows Ziren(the natrual self) .

 

Seems like a full circle from Man (as we are) to Earth to Heaven to Tao back to Man (natural self). Do you agree?

 

What this was saying is in order for human to follow the universe(Earth and Heaven), then human follows the principles of Tao. Human is intelligent enough to go against Nature. Human may stop the calf from eaten by the lion. Then we must ask ourselves, can the lion survive from hunger without eating the calf.....??? Nature allows the calf to be eaten by the lion. Human may interrupt Nature by saving the calf and let the lion die of hunger. However, the lion may be survived by eating something else, like a goat. Now, the goat was meant to be killed by Nature. All this hunting game was part of the course of Nature. Can human interfere with Nature by changing its course....??? I don't think so....!!! This is why Lao Tze advocate people not to interfere with Nature by following the concept of Wu Wei.

 

We need to eat food, drink water and breathe air. Why can't eating food be as painless as drinking water and breathing air? Why do we have to resort to butality in order to eat? Why must nature be set up this way? I don't get it. It seems as though brutality, replusive as it is, is an anomaly. It goes against my instincts. It just doesn't add up. Not to interfere in the face of horror doesn't sound right. I am not proposing that we should stop lions eating calves. It is a horrible set up.

 

One might ask, is the killing done by the lion interfering with Nature...??? The answer is no because the lion is wild which is part of its nature. BTW Anything was beyond control by human was considered to be natural. Anything done by human harmful or good to Nature was considered to be interrupting the course of Nature by the definition of Wu Wei. Indeed, Lao Tze was more concern about the harm than the good to Nature.

 

I agree with wu wei and non-interference. Human can only cause harm to Nature. To think that we can do good to Nature is ridiculous. We are messing up the world. Cleaning up after ourselves is the least we can do. But there is something very wrong about the way Nature is set up. To accept thing as they are doesn't seem right.

[ChiDragon]

sree...

Nature has no way to tell what is right or wrong. It just happens that way, the way of Nature.

 

Chapter Five:

Earth and Heaven has no mercy.

It treats all things like straw dogs.

 

A sage has no mercy.

It treats all people as straw dogs.

 

From these first four lines, they tell us to be impartial. Leave it alone; let it be the way it should be. BTW That was what the photographer did. Instead of saving the calf, the video was taken as is.

Edited December 16, 2012 by ChiDragon

[flowing hands]

Being a lesser mortal, I may have to. But the answer is not hidden from the immortals (like Jeff, Manitou and Flowing Hands) in this forum. I have to keep an open mind and seek knowledge (from them) as you advocated.

 

Where do you stand? Are you in that bandwagon with Jeff and company or just a dumbass like me?

 

There is no bandwagon its all about understanding and the depth and bredth of experience. We all have different ones, thats why we are sharing on this forum? If you have no experience of a subject then how can you ever really know anything about it? If you haven't, then the best thing to do is to listen to those who have and have far greater experience and understanding and this in turn can help you on your way. You of course have a choice to take what you have been given and apply it, or just ignore it, but whatever you do,

 

DO NOT MOCK THAT WHICH YOU HAVE NO KNOWLEDGE OF ESPECIALLY THE SPIRITUAL REALM.

 

When I knelt down and begged the Immortal teachers to come to me in the temple in malaysia, all those years ago and they did, I realised that Gods existed and could make their presence known in a very powerful and physical way that led you into no doubt. It was to say the least, one of those experiences that not many have, but leaves those that do, marked for the rest of their lives.

Edited December 16, 2012 by flowing hands

[Marblehead]

Where do you stand? Are you in that bandwagon with Jeff and company or just a dumbass like me?

I'm just a dumbass with a lot of years of experience. And no, I'm not in a basket with anyone else. I jumped out of the basket a long time ago.

[manitou]

It makes a world of a difference to what we accept as right side up or upside down. I am convinced that Charles Manson is nuts. All bets are off now that you have also jumped on the bandwagon along with Manitou. How many more of you out there looking to the Northern Heaven where Jesus resides? Is there anyone else?

 

Maybe it's best to remember that the Tao treats us all like straw dogs. As far as I'm concerned, your words are right and can't be argued with. instead, it's merely a choice of what perspective one chooses. You prefer to label things like ugly, unfair, greedy; all the result of judgments. My only point is that Tao, the Void, whatever you want to call it, doesn't give a hang who lives or dies. Or how that death occurs. We are straw dogs. There is a loving principle underlying, however, which in the end commands the order of the universe. A positive attraction, if you'd rather. We can choose to tap into that as much or as little as we wish. My wish is to tap into it as completely as I can, to align my personality with what I know to be the divine truths. This I am dead serious about. We are all One and the Same, stretching over the eras. Waiting for Jesus to come? Who cares? He's already here, he's always been here, and he's present in You, whether you know it or not.

 

There's no good or bad. It just is.

[sree]

There is no bandwagon its all about understanding and the depth and bredth of experience. We all have different ones, thats why we are sharing on this forum? If you have no experience of a subject then how can you ever really know anything about it? If you haven't, then the best thing to do is to listen to those who have and have far greater experience and understanding and this in turn can help you on your way. You of course have a choice to take what you have been given and apply it, or just ignore it, but whatever you do,

 

DO NOT MOCK THAT WHICH YOU HAVE NO KNOWLEDGE OF ESPECIALLY THE SPIRITUAL REALM.

 

God forbid. Why do you say I am mocking? I am here to listen to what you have to say. Even if I am incredulous of your shamanic claims, I am keeping an open mind to learn more. You did not give answers to some of my questions as follows:

 

1. How does he (Li Erh aka Lao Tze) teach you? Does he materialize in a séance or is he just a voice in your head?

2. Why is life (or nature) set up this way? Why do animals have to kill and devour one another in the wild? In the same way, like other animals, we humans also "devour" one another in as brutal a fashion in order to survive. We kill each other in wars over territories and resources. We trample on one another to get food, clothing and shelter. Such brutality is caused by the way nature or life is set up. You know the Gods and the spiritual realm. So why don't you tell me?

 

When I knelt down and begged the Immortal teachers to come to me in the temple in malaysia, all those years ago and they did, I realised that Gods existed and could make their presence known in a very powerful and physical way that led you into no doubt. It was to say the least, one of those experiences that not many have, but leaves those that do, marked for the rest of their lives.

 

What is the benefit of your experiences of immortal teachers? You said that the trouble is the way society has been based that cause us to be trapped by a lack of wealth without which we have no freedom to practise and cultivate in order to make this world a better place. Why is society based this way? Why do you say you are still trapped despite your spiritual accomplishment from immortal teachers?

 

I am asking sincere questions and not being disrespectful the way the Pharisees were disrespectful of Jesus when they taunted him. Please understand that being ignorant, I can only ask questions like a blind person groping in the dark.

Edited December 17, 2012 by sree

[XieJia]

why is the ways of the world such, one asked?

 

what would one choose?

 

life or death?

pleasure or pain?

gain or loss?

good or bad?

happy or sad?

 

One arises, many arises with it.

Therefore the ancient sages say;

When one is realized, so does the many with it.

 

The world consists of an that of itself, and all in it.

 

As much as you can't claim any parts in your body is more "you"

than any others.

How can one say that this that or this is out of the world?

 

It is so cause we see it as so...

 

The world has it cycles and so do we;

It comes and goes, how can we not be grateful for what is allotted to us?

 

Now please do share with us;

if this life is so brutal, what kind of life should be it?

What would be ideal (setup) is better than this?

If your instinct points out otherwise,

then what does your instincts see?

[manitou]

There is something that can never be explained to anyone's satisfaction. That thing is Direct Knowledge; it started coming to me within the last year, although I have spent 45 years barking up this tree. It is a direct voice, a channel, from within. You know it when you get it. There is no doubt about anything, you Know that the information you are receiving and communcating is the truth. it can't be explained to anyone, no matter how hard you try. People will be incredulous until it happens to them, at which point they will stop being incredulous and realize it for what it is. A channel. The incredulous should leave their minds open because it's probably close to happening to them.

[Jeff]

There is something that can never be explained to anyone's satisfaction. That thing is Direct Knowledge; it started coming to me within the last year, although I have spent 45 years barking up this tree. It is a direct voice, a channel, from within. You know it when you get it. There is no doubt about anything, you Know that the information you are receiving and communcating is the truth. it can't be explained to anyone, no matter how hard you try. People will be incredulous until it happens to them, at which point they will stop being incredulous and realize it for what it is. A channel. The incredulous should leave their minds open because it's probably close to happening to them.

 

Beautifully said. Thank you.