is it possible to hurt yourself by meditating?

[devoid]

Is it possible to damage yourself in some way by just sitting there and meditating?

 

[...]

 

After a bit of this I decided was getting too uncomfortable and I didn't want to hurt myself, so I opened my eyes to stop. [...]

 

Hi Beoman,

 

Yes, it is possible to accumulate injury based on fueling energy into a spot in which it becomes stagnant.

 

You did exactly the right thing by following you intuition to back off when it felt like this was not good for you. Back off, give it a rest, and then continue when you're comfortable that the blockage has dissipated and feel ready to give it another go.

 

Pay special attention to directing the qi back to your dantian on your exhale while expanding your lower belly simultaneously with contracting the abdomen on the exhale. Allowing the sound of the breath on the exhale like a dog does when finally agreeing to lay down and take a rest helps further (note: the sound of the breath should not include the voice). This can help relieve pressure in the head assuming that your energy vessels are open.

 

As others also mentioned, you should work on your grounding in parallel - a potential lack of it is not necessarily the cause of what you experienced, but generally speaking, grounding helps ensure against short-circuiting.

[Sunya]

What is sacrificed for the ideal and focus on material gain?

 

Let's talk about the benefits first. You can live till at least 70, be treated for a multitude of diseases or problems and survive, drive anywhere, fly anywhere, be able to have this conversation.

 

The cons, yes there are cons. Many are overworked to the point where mindless entertain is the only way to escape. It's certainly a high cost. For those who have the spark, they can go to Amazon and order books that teach them dharma which is then delivered to their door in days. Then they can go and meet with a teacher if they want. Nobody is forced into slavery. You buy into the "American dream" and then put on shackles of debt, but if you live frugally you can have your cake and eat it too.

 

The great thing about today is that we actually have the means to choose. Nobody forces you to focus on material gain.

 

 

Yes, that'd be great! But, alas, it's Communist China now and not really Tibet anymore...

 

You can go live in Ladakh or Sikkim or Nepal.

Edited January 10, 2011 by Sunya

[Vajrahridaya]

I am referring to taking care of basic human needs. Food, shelter, medicine etc. Stop twisting my statements.

 

Much of what is happening in these other, what you think of as "lesser" countries is a direct result of Western Technology and materialism invading and taking over the world. Not all, but at this point, most.

 

Honestly, I think if "white man" had of never ventured to conquer the planet, many of the problems in these "savage" countries would have never happened.

 

Have you seen, "The Gods must be crazy?" You should, if you haven't. At least the beginning of it.

 

Railroads, mills... so much has contributed to over population without considering how entirely different of a type of mind these cultures used to have. When I say used to, I mean that so many of these spiritually advanced cultures are being poisoned by the type of materialistic mentality that occupies your brain ralis.

[Vajrahridaya]

Oh wait... here we go!

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=66pTPWg_wUw

Edited January 10, 2011 by Vajrahridaya

[Vajrahridaya]

 

 

The great thing about today is that we actually have the means to choose. Nobody forces you to focus on material gain.

 

 

I agree, so let there be balance between Eastern spiritual benefit and Western material benefit.

 

You can go live in Ladakh or Sikkim or Nepal.

 

Yes, I'm looking forward to visiting places like Ladakh and Dharamsala.

[ralis]

Much of what is happening in these other, what you think of as "lesser" countries is a direct result of Western Technology and materialism invading and taking over the world. Not all, but at this point, most.

 

Honestly, I think if "white man" had of never ventured to conquer the planet, many of the problems in these "savage" countries would have never happened.

 

Have you seen, "The Gods must be crazy?" You should, if you haven't. At least the beginning of it.

 

Railroads, mills... so much has contributed to over population without considering how entirely different of a type of mind these cultures used to have. When I say used to, I mean that so many of these spiritually advanced cultures are being poisoned by the type of materialistic mentality that occupies your brain ralis.

 

 

Do you even know what has contributed to overpopulation? There is only one variable that leads to population growth. Figure it out for yourself. When you know the variable, then what caused the variable to increase exponentially?

 

If you think I am a white guy, then you are very mistaken! I happen to be part Cherokee Indian and I resent the romanticism that you impose on native cultures, wherever they may reside.

Edited January 10, 2011 by ralis

[Sunya]

Much of what is happening in these other, what you think of as "lesser" countries is a direct result of Western Technology and materialism invading and taking over the world. Not all, but at this point, most.

 

Female genital mutilation practiced in Africa and parts of Asia so that men could have power over women were due to western materialism? The human sacrifice too? The caste systems of Tibet and India also were a result of Western technology? What about how 9 year olds get married to old men in Arabian countries? Caused by Western technology too?

 

I don't understand where that idea is coming from. Could you give one example to clarify

 

I mean that so many of these spiritually advanced cultures are being poisoned by the type of materialistic mentality that occupies your brain ralis.

 

In what sense are you using the word materialistic? The view that everything is made of matter? Or being overly concerned with material wealth? I don't see ralis as exhibiting either characteristic.

Edited January 10, 2011 by Sunya

[ralis]

Let's talk about the benefits first. You can live till at least 70, be treated for a multitude of diseases or problems and survive, drive anywhere, fly anywhere, be able to have this conversation.

 

The cons, yes there are cons. Many are overworked to the point where mindless entertain is the only way to escape. It's certainly a high cost. For those who have the spark, they can go to Amazon and order books that teach them dharma which is then delivered to their door in days. Then they can go and meet with a teacher if they want. Nobody is forced into slavery. You buy into the "American dream" and then put on shackles of debt, but if you live frugally you can have your cake and eat it too.

 

The great thing about today is that we actually have the means to choose. Nobody forces you to focus on material gain.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Your comments are well said. We really do have many choices in this country. More than most.

[ralis]

Female genital mutilation practiced in Africa and parts of Asia so that men could have power over women were due to western materialism? The human sacrifice too? The caste systems of Tibet and India also were a result of Western technology? What about how 9 year olds get married to old men in Arabian countries? Caused by Western technology too?

 

I don't understand where that idea is coming from. Could you give one example to clarify

 

 

 

In what sense are you using the word materialistic? The view that everything is made of matter? Or being overly concerned with material wealth? I don't see ralis as exhibiting either characteristic.

 

 

I might like to add that in some Arab countries, young boys are used as sexual slaves for older men. This has been happening for centuries.

 

I am not overly concerned with material wealth. That is not my motivation.

[Sunya]

Honestly, I think if "white man" had of never ventured to conquer the planet, many of the problems in these "savage" countries would have never happened.

 

What problems? If you're talking about slavery or lack of proper sanitation and medical technology, those problems existed way before the "white man" even heard of such places.

 

The "white man" after all had such problems too. Medieval Europe wasn't such a hot place to live in, but science and technology lead to advances that benefited everybody. Nobody is stopping anybody from living a spiritual life. We live in a free society, and there are plenty of teachers here and plenty of retreat centers, etc. But the crutch is that to consume you must produce. If you don't want to consume the quality goods such a materialistic world produces, then you are free to move to Asia.

 

Population levels naturally balance after after a third world country becomes a first world country. If you look at population levels in the US, they are remaining relatively the same. Most of the population growth is happening in Asia. The "white man" will actually become a minority soon.

Edited January 10, 2011 by Sunya

[Vajrahridaya]

Do you even know what has contributed to overpopulation? There is only one variable that leads to population growth. Figure it out for yourself. When you know the variable, then what caused the variable to increase exponentially?

 

Food development and food dissemination. Before the 19th century, and after is huge.

 

If you think I am a white guy, then you are very mistaken! I happen to be part Cherokee Indian and I resent the romanticism that you impose on native cultures, wherever they may reside.

 

Yes, I know that you are filled with resent ralis, this is obvious. I actually had no idea what your race was, just your opinions seem pretty white washed.

 

I don't agree with your damning of native cultures and their ancient traditions.

 

You should watch the segment I posted from "The Gods Must Be Crazy."

[ralis]

Food development and food dissemination. Before the 19th century, and after is huge.

 

 

 

Yes, I know that you are filled with resent ralis, this is obvious. I actually had no idea what your race was, just your opinions seem pretty white washed.

 

I don't agree with your damning of native cultures and their ancient traditions.

 

You should watch the segment I posted from "The Gods Must Be Crazy."

 

I am not condemning anyone, only questioning your assessment in believing everything you read. Stop attempting to mind read and accusing me of resentment or whatever you believe. You know nothing of me. What I resent is people making assumptions about other cultures they know little about.

 

 

If you believe I lack sensitivity, you are wrong. I am not able to read "Trail of Tears" because it is too painful. My brother barely finished it!

 

Food supply was increased by the production of urea early in the 20th century. Urea is made using natural gas and ammonia.

Edited January 10, 2011 by ralis

[Vajrahridaya]

Female genital mutilation practiced in Africa and parts of Asia so that men could have power over women were due to western materialism? The human sacrifice too? The caste systems of Tibet and India also were a result of Western technology? What about how 9 year olds get married to old men in Arabian countries? Caused by Western technology too?

 

Those aren't the kind of problems that I'm talking about, which might have worked themselves out? Or not. I'm talking about major overpopulation due to the technology of food manufacturing.

 

But really, it's so complex at this point and China was good at technology quite early on as well as the Europeans, so... it's not really just white man per say. I guess I'm just bored and falling back on old slightly under-informed thoughts of my past.

 

There really isn't a simple answer or example, or single cause at all really.

 

But, that segment from The Gods Must Be Crazy sure is powerful.

 

I don't understand where that idea is coming from. Could you give one example to clarify

 

Sure, obliteration of the Buffalo in Native America and displacement of Native heritage to the point of extinction, kind of like what the Chinese are doing to Tibetans and their culture in Tibet. That is just one.

 

 

In what sense are you using the word materialistic? The view that everything is made of matter? Or being overly concerned with material wealth? I don't see ralis as exhibiting either characteristic.

 

I see him as being overly Materialistic.

[Vajrahridaya]

people making assumptions about other cultures they know little about.

 

I think you're talking about yourself again ralis.

[Sunya]

I see him as being overly Materialistic.

 

Which means what?

[Vajrahridaya]

Material wealth. That is not my motivation.

 

That's not what I mean, more that you're perception seems trapped by material conditioning, the 5 senses... etc. Your perspective of other cultures always seems to dwell more in the glass is half empty type of thinking. You always like to bring up, "what is/was wrong" instead of what was/is right about these cultures.

 

This deludes your clarity and disallows you to see more objectively, just as you accuse me of the same.

 

I think you misjudge due to a lack of insight into the nature of things. I think your perspective reveals a deep flaw in your interpretation of experience in general and I'm not talking merely conceptual either.

Edited January 10, 2011 by Vajrahridaya

[Sunya]

Sure, obliteration of the Buffalo in Native America and displacement of Native heritage to the point of extinction,

 

You said problems in third world countries and how these problems were caused by Western materialism and technology. The obliteration of the Native Americans was definitely caused by white men, but that's not what we're really talking about. We were (I thought) talking about problems in third world countries. This whole conversation started after ralis called Tibet a third world country because of the lack of proper health standards and quality of life.

[Vajrahridaya]

Which means what?

 

His perspective seems more matter based rather than spirit based. Lower 3 chakras instead of upper 4.

 

Of course they should be balanced, but it's like he's out of left field and I'm in right field.

 

I may need some left field, but he seems to need plenty of right.

[Vajrahridaya]

This whole conversation started after ralis called Tibet a third world country because of the lack of proper health standards and quality of life.

 

Tibets problems right now are caused by the Chinese.

 

Did NOBODY bother to watch the segment I posted from The Gods Must Be Crazy??

 

If not... then never mind.

Edited January 10, 2011 by Vajrahridaya

[ralis]

That's not what I mean, more that you're perception seems trapped by material conditioning, the 5 senses... etc. Your perspective of other cultures always seems to dwell more in the glass is half empty type of thinking. You always like to bring up, "what is/was wrong" instead of what was/is right about these cultures.

 

This deludes your clarity and disallows you to see more objectively, just as you accuse me of the same.

 

I think you misjudge due to a lack of insight into the nature of things. I think your perspective reveals a deep flaw in your interpretation of experience in general and I'm not talking merely conceptual either.

 

 

You are so dense. Let me spell it out for you. I deeply care about the plight of less fortunate people. To not be enslaved by religious and political ideology, lack of food, little or no education, medical care, shelter, proper sanitation etc. All the things I take for granted that many don't have. The worst of this are countries of Africa, Tibet, parts of China, India and Southeast Asia, in general. I believe that is real compassion! Heart!!

Edited January 10, 2011 by ralis

[Sunya]

That's not what I mean, more that you're perception seems trapped by material conditioning, the 5 senses... etc.

 

Well then you're creating a whole new word because that's not what materialistic means. And just to note, for most of us earthlings we are indeed all trapped by conditioning based on the senses since, well, that's all we have access to.

 

Your perspective of other cultures always seems to dwell more in the glass is half empty type of thinking. You always like to bring up, "what is/was wrong" instead of what was/is right about these cultures.

 

But you do the same for modern Western culture. You bring up all the bad things about the advancement in food production, public health, and medical technologies which lead to population growth. I think it's a very good thing that people can eat and live longer and suffer less.

 

I think you misjudge due to a lack of insight into the nature of things. I think your perspective reveals a deep flaw in your interpretation of experience in general and I'm not talking merely conceptual either.

 

You keep flaunting the enlightenment hat. It's pretty, but we've all seen it plenty of times. Plus, it makes you look fat.

 

And it doesn't even belong in this conversation.

 

We're talking about ancient cultures in comparison to modern cultures. This has nothing to do with insight into emptiness. Enlightenment does not make you a genius who doesn't need to learn or research or question your beliefs about worldly matters in areas of science, anthropology, history, sociology, psychology, etc. They are in different realms entirely.

Edited January 10, 2011 by Sunya

[Vajrahridaya]

You are so dense.

 

I know you are but what am I?

Let me spell it out for you. I deeply care about the plight of less fortunate people. To not be enslaved by religious and political ideology,

 

This is where I find your view too material based with little eduction and insight.

 

lack of food, lack of or no education, medical care, shelter, proper sanitation etc. All the things I take for granted that many don't have. The worst of this are countries in India and Southeast Asia, in general. I believe that is real compassion!

 

Yes sure... at the same time, having any of what you take for granted won't free anyone from samsaric perspectives, of which your view of compassion seems to be based upon, as in material instead of spiritual. As if feeding the hungry is going to save people spiritually.

 

Though of course at the same time, people who have no time to chant, meditate and contemplate because they're too busy trying to feed their kids, will not benefit from spiritual teachings as well.

 

But, these Buddhist monasteries that you hate soo much actually do clothe, feed and help many kids out of previously impoverished conditions, as well as teach them things they can take into the next life.

 

You seem to want to focus on the corruption and sex scandals, as if they are the proof that religion doesn't work?

 

I think your perspective on this subject is deeply narrowed by your lack of de-conditioned inner experience.

Edited January 10, 2011 by Vajrahridaya

[ralis]

I know you are but what am I?

 

 

This is where I find your view too material based with little eduction and insight.

 

 

 

 

 

You are relentless in putting others down! During all the retreats that I participated in with Norbu, never once did he treat others inappropriately.

Edited January 10, 2011 by ralis

[Vajrahridaya]

Well then you're creating a whole new word because that's not what materialistic means. And just to note, for most of us earthlings we are indeed all trapped by conditioning based on the senses since, well, that's all we have access to.

 

First of all Sunya. I'm really tired from working hard all day into the night on a Rickshaw, shlepping people around town, because I have a wife to take care of who can't work in this country and have to work harder to support both of us, so I'm going to lack some clarity in expression.

 

Second of all, I'm sorry that your experience lacks sense transcendence, but this is not my fault.

 

 

But you do the same for modern Western culture. You bring up all the bad things about the advancement in food production, public health, and medical technologies which lead to population growth. I think it's a very good thing that people can eat and live longer and suffer less.

 

This is the first time I've really mentioned as such. Plus, it's not all bad! It's all just what is... there are great things about it and bad things about it all and it's up to individuals to work out their own karma around it. I was talking to ralis about his view being trapped in this idea that because your belly's are full and you can be physically warm, that you are actually suffering less. No, for the most part, people are just too distracted to know that the 3 lower realms await them after their momentary high on sense fulfillment. Cave yogis have a better future eating nothing but dried barley every 3 days, without any feature comforts.

 

 

 

We're talking about ancient cultures in comparison to modern cultures. This has nothing to do with insight into emptiness. Enlightenment does not make you a genius who doesn't need to learn or research or question your beliefs about worldly matters in areas of science, anthropology, history, sociology, psychology, etc. They are in different realms entirely.

 

Yes, and the resulting answer concerning these should be more of a mixed bag and not merely a black or white answer. Some of my previous reply's were quite lazy. I'm trying to stay awake so that I can fit a later schedule in order to work more prime times this coming week.

 

But, of course, all these issues we are having globally all arise due to the lack of experience of rigpa, going back endless lifetimes for any Samsarin. That sounds pretty black and white, I know.

 

But... they really aren't "different realms entirely."

 

Some things about ancient cultures are better, and other things aren't. There is great benefit that could come from technology, but only if it becomes more symbiotic and less parasitic as it is right now. Like, WHY ARE WE USING NON RENEWABLE RESOURCES WHEN WE HAVE THE TECHNOLOGY TO USE RENEWABLE RESOURCES INSTEAD!!?? Oh yeah... duh! Profitability!! Our pyramid based economy and social system.

Edited January 10, 2011 by Vajrahridaya

[Sunya]

This is where I find your view too material based with little eduction and insight.

 

This is where I find your view too spiritual and lacking in education and real world insight. See, it can go both ways.

 

The rise of technological advancement was inevitable, and all the unnecessary things that happen/ are happening are due to dangerous ideas like atheism and nationalism/fascism (China), evangelicalism and white supremacy (US), and fundamentalist xenophobia (Islam). None of this has to do with technology. It's a very good thing that the Tibetan average life expectancy is now 67 instead of 35. The lack of religious freedom is unfortunate, but the two are not caused by each other.

 

I see a much brighter future of the world. Eventually, hopefully soon, technology will make life much easier for everybody (not just the rich), and people will be able to have much more time to focus on dharma.

Edited January 10, 2011 by Sunya