Shamanic roots of Western World

[Ulises]

I've had a few years ago a remarkable sinchronicity about Peter Kingsley work. And yet I have mixed feelings about the man and the way he connects the dots of our western roots(Parmenides/Empedocles/Pythagoras/Abaris the Hyperborean(mongolian shaman)...anyone has some personal experience (workshops, sinchronicities, insights...) ?

Edited January 9, 2011 by Ulises

[Seth Ananda]

I've had a few years ago a remarkable sinchronicity about Peter Kingsley work. And yet I have mixed feelings about the man and the way he connects the dots of our western roots(Parmenides/Empedocles/Pythagoras/Abaris the Hyperborean(mongolian shaman)...anyone has some personal experience (workshops, sinchronicities, insights...) ?

I have read all his books. Why do you have mixed feelings about the connected dots?

He basicly starts with the founder [as far as written evidence goes] of a way of thinking, and then jumps to each person who used that thought mode and developed it further.

Its Obviously very connected, and not in a David Ikke- These two names add up to 4 so they were really the same person!- kind of way

 

Seth.

[Ulises]

I have read all his books. Why do you have mixed feelings about the connected dots?

He basicly starts with the founder [as far as written evidence goes] of a way of thinking, and then jumps to each person who used that thought mode and developed it further.

Its Obviously very connected, and not in a David Ikke- These two names add up to 4 so they were really the same person!- kind of way

 

Seth.

sorry, I made a mistake trying to articulate. What I mean is that reading "Reality", and now "A story...", I get the feeling of something authentic and yet... also I dislike that gloomy tone, the many "terryfing" (Story),the glorification of Gengis Khan, with all his excesses and brutality, for example... the view of this world as a "dark cave of terrors" (Reality) and as a "fall"...the worst kind of mysticism, in my feeling. Added to that: watching him, I cannot avoid to feel the over-seriousness, certain pedantic self-important mannerism...

Reading "Reality" nearly made me vomiting, literally...

I have to say that the only thing I loved (from the DVD I watched) was this phrase: "Nature is longing for us to become conscious".

I'm amazed of some authors I admire, praising his latest book... I resonate with Adyashanti, A. H. Almaas, David Spangler, Christopher Bache...but I cannot suffer this guy

Edited January 10, 2011 by Ulises

[Taomeow]

I have read all his books. Why do you have mixed feelings about the connected dots?

He basicly starts with the founder [as far as written evidence goes] of a way of thinking, and then jumps to each person who used that thought mode and developed it further.

Its Obviously very connected, and not in a David Ikke- These two names add up to 4 so they were really the same person!- kind of way

 

Seth.

 

I haven't seen David Icke do that.

 

As for this guy, he is an Alpha Draconian.

[9th]

antique ethera of the protractys

 

pythagoreans traced

pentagrams inscribed

in nested rings described

outer space xenophile

pearlescent inner orbit

extraneous submergence

internal coalescence

expressed in cycles

rotational forces expelled

from centrifugal excellence

enfolded zenith and horizon

in spinning insurgence

hyper-elastic transition

explicable translation emergence

inverted serpent trance

coiled transistor

enhanced capacitor

rising heliocentric lunacy

encodes particulate excelsior

[Apech]

I haven't seen David Icke do that.

 

As for this guy, he is an Alpha Draconian.

 

He's a what? You mean a lizard?

[manitou]

Thank you, Ulises - what a wonderful video. I found that his words became like a meditation as the interview went on.

 

Our poor country is definitely collectively asleep; we are in tatters. I like the inference he makes about Western logic being a necessary component to materialism. It does seem to follow. To those of us in the West, Western logic appears to be the shortest and most accurate path between here and there, point A to point B. This is for the person who plans, who wants their route intact before they actually take off on the journey. Those of us who are more rigid in character, more structured. The fastest and surest way to obtain 'things' and try to control an outcome.

 

And yet, we who are trying to find our way out of the Western thought box of materialism discover at some point that Intuition more often leads directly to the desired result, albeit sometimes different than you imagined it would be. Intuition is also a straight shot from point A to point B, but it seems to go through a wormhole of sorts that defies Western logic.

 

I very much like this fellow. I think I'll order a book..

[Vajrahridaya]

I haven't seen David Icke do that.

 

As for this guy, he is an Alpha Draconian.

 

So he's wearing a skin suit?

[Vajrahridaya]

He's a what? You mean a lizard?

 

There's a group of people who think the TV show V is real. As far as I have experienced, they are mostly pot heads who take everything Alex Jones says to heart.

[Seth Ananda]

Thanks Taomeow that really gave me a chuckle...

 

Ulises, As far as I recall he is very Influenced by Gurdjieffs teachings.

In one fairly arbitrary pidgin holing, that puts him in the Gnostic pessimism corner.

 

Positive Gnosticism Is very friendly, God is in everything, the world is divine and evolution is Inevitable if we stay open. {they do do serious practice as well}

 

Gnostic pessimism on the other hand was not particularly Happy. God was removed from the world, Humans are not even Human till through hard work they earn the Human soul. In fact they may just be sleep walkers that produce awareness to be siphoned off by near bye developing planetary bodys like the moon.

Every attempt would be made to awaken to the 'Horror of the Situation' and to learn to become disgusted by Unawareness. Learning happens through a series of Shocks.

 

Both schools are Valid, and both produced Great Mystics.

 

Another point, is that in the old western traditions, conquerors were sometimes revered. The Idea was that everything is an expression of the world soul [anima mundi] and its evolution. They were not seen like Great Saints who in Kabalistic terms had attained Hesedic consciousness, but they were Great souls and sat squarely in Gevuric [mars] consciousness.

This explained the Incredible Intuition/Luck and charisma that permeated Alexander the great, Napoleon, and others. The world soul was moving them as they were tools for humanity's evolution [they carried new Ideas with them]. This does not mean they were Karma free. And once they had done what was needed they were simply dropped.

 

I do not know if that rambling answers anything, but Have fun! lol. [thats my positive gnostic bent]

[3bob]

The idea of finding our particular "western" spiritual root is interesting, then again when all of the roots are more or less inter-woven in various ways how much time does one have to spend in separating out or cutting from that massive conglomeration a particualr root and then proclaim that this is our original start from a few particular "germs" palnted 2500 years ago by such and such...? That is at least problematic if not impossible imo, btw who knows how or what other influences those people of many years ago were under? Surely they to borrowed from other forms of teachings or roots.

 

Also, all this talk about being asleep - so the hell what? For instance: surely Mr. G (among others) were also deeply "asleep" compared to certain cosmic type beings or certain teachers, (per his alcoholic indulgences and womanizing) thus any of our half-ass esoteric games of comparison as to who is more awake and thus not sleep, or who is more enlightened than so and so are badly missing the mark. (of getting on with practice)

 

Om

Edited January 10, 2011 by 3bob

[Seth Ananda]

Ah, just done a quick recap of his work, and I would not put him entirely in the Gnostic pessimism camp... I had forgotten about all the meditation on the senses and world Inclusion stuff...

[Taomeow]

He's a what? You mean a lizard?

 

I have no idea. Alpha Draconians usually go to Oxford, Cambridge, Harvard or Yale, join a secret society (e.g. Skull and Bones), a masonic lodge (most US presidents, e.g.), and a few powerful and secretive international elite groups (like the Bilderbergers, the Trilateral Commission, the Council for the Foreign Affairs, e.g.), and practice occult arts (like the Bohemian Grove rituals around the Owl Furnace, e.g.) What they tell the public about occult arts is part of what they are entrusted by their higher-ups to be doing in order to keep inquiries safely on the wrong track.

 

As to whether they are lizards, opinions vary, and I have no strong convictions one way or the other. Circumstantial evidence points to the possibility, because our oldest "creator gods" like Marduk or Quetzacoatl or Nuwa are always (no exceptions in old mythologies) depicted as some kind of reptile, which makes sense if you consider scientific evidence -- reptiles are hundreds of millions of years older on this planet than mammals -- in all likelihood on other planets it's the same -- they ruled the earth for most of its history, and if they chose to tell us now they no longer do and went extinct and so on, that's, well, what they tell us, we only have their word for it, vs. the facts. The facts point to the whole history of civilization of our species as an orchestrated, planned, non-random process, and apparently there's evidence that it has been orchestrated, planned, and implemented by the residents of a planet or planets in the vicinity of Alpha Draconis, which is why whenever I hear the agenda of the overlords from someone with overlords connections in the background, I mentally mark him as an Alpha Draconian, though it doesn't cross my mind of course to think of him as one of the puppeteers, merely one of the puppets jerking other puppets away from the puppeteers. That's what I meant.

[Ulises]

[9th]

[Vajrahridaya]

I have no idea. Alpha Draconians usually go to Oxford, Cambridge, Harvard or Yale, join a secret society (e.g. Skull and Bones), a masonic lodge (most US presidents, e.g.), and a few powerful and secretive international elite groups (like the Bilderbergers, the Trilateral Commission, the Council for the Foreign Affairs, e.g.), and practice occult arts (like the Bohemian Grove rituals around the Owl Furnace, e.g.) What they tell the public about occult arts is part of what they are entrusted by their higher-ups to be doing in order to keep inquiries safely on the wrong track.

 

As to whether they are lizards, opinions vary, and I have no strong convictions one way or the other. Circumstantial evidence points to the possibility, because our oldest "creator gods" like Marduk or Quetzacoatl or Nuwa are always (no exceptions in old mythologies) depicted as some kind of reptile, which makes sense if you consider scientific evidence -- reptiles are hundreds of millions of years older on this planet than mammals -- in all likelihood on other planets it's the same -- they ruled the earth for most of its history, and if they chose to tell us now they no longer do and went extinct and so on, that's, well, what they tell us, we only have their word for it, vs. the facts. The facts point to the whole history of civilization of our species as an orchestrated, planned, non-random process, and apparently there's evidence that it has been orchestrated, planned, and implemented by the residents of a planet or planets in the vicinity of Alpha Draconis, which is why whenever I hear the agenda of the overlords from someone with overlords connections in the background, I mentally mark him as an Alpha Draconian, though it doesn't cross my mind of course to think of him as one of the puppeteers, merely one of the puppets jerking other puppets away from the puppeteers. That's what I meant.

 

Ok, then I guess he is wearing a skin suit.

 

I have friends all into this shit and I think it can drive you nuts if you let it. But, whatever... maybe it's true, I'm not convinced and have no experience to validate it, just cooked up logic, of which I've heard so much, on and on and on. It's amazing how much a pothead can talk while taking bong rips.

 

The snake was merely considered a symbol for wisdom long ago in various traditions. These depictions could really be innocent, they really could.

[Ulises]

...fascinating...:

"Previous spiritual teachers, thus interpreting the nature of the world as one of ignorance and suffering, saw the only solution to be a radical transcendence of this existence, through a return to the Absolute; what the Hindus call 'Liberation' and the Buddhists 'Nirvana'.

 

But Sri Aurobindo and Mirra suggested another, far more magnificent, but also far more difficult, alternative. Rather than go from Here (this world) to There (Nirvana, the Absolute), why not bring There down Here? In other words, why not draw the Divine or Absolute Consciousness - what Sri Aurobindo calls the 'Supermind' or 'Supramental' because it is totally beyond mind and mental activity - down into this world, into this gross physical world of matter, into one's physical body (the individual centre of inconscience), and by doing so transform, perfect, and Divinise it.

 

The result would be the 'glorified body', the Supramental Body, the Divinised Body, the Perfected Body free of illness and imperfection. With this there would be the elimination of ignorance and negativity. Suffering would be replaced by Divine Harmony.

 

And having achieved this state in one's own self, the next stage is to extend it out to the world as whole, and so bring about a collective evolutionary transformation."

http://www.kheper.net/topics/Aurobindo/Supramentalisation.htm

Edited January 12, 2011 by Ulises

[三江源]

...fascinating...:

"Previous spiritual teachers, thus interpreting the nature of the world as one of ignorance and suffering, saw the only solution to be a radical transcendence of this existence, through a return to the Absolute; what the Hindus call 'Liberation' and the Buddhists 'Nirvana'.

 

But Sri Aurobindo and Mirra suggested another, far more magnificent, but also far more difficult, alternative. Rather than go from Here (this world) to There (Nirvana, the Absolute), why not bring There down Here? In other words, why not draw the Divine or Absolute Consciousness - what Sri Aurobindo calls the 'Supermind' or 'Supramental' because it is totally beyond mind and mental activity - down into this world, into this gross physical world of matter, into one's physical body (the individual centre of inconscience), and by doing so transform, perfect, and Divinise it.

 

The result would be the 'glorified body', the Supramental Body, the Divinised Body, the Perfected Body free of illness and imperfection. With this there would be the elimination of ignorance and negativity. Suffering would be replaced by Divine Harmony.

 

And having achieved this state in one's own self, the next stage is to extend it out to the world as whole, and so bring about a collective evolutionary transformation."

http://www.kheper.ne...ntalisation.htm

 

It is fascinating. It is what everybody is talking about on the board when they discuss Qigong and taoist alchemy.

[Ulises]

It is fascinating. It is what everybody is talking about on the board when they discuss Qigong and taoist alchemy.

 

 

Sometimes, some posts I read here make me have doubts about that..but I believe you : )

 

"Death is the side of life averted from us, unshone upon by us: we must try to achieve the greatest consciousness of our existence which is at home in both unbounded realms, inexhaustibly nourished from both…The true figure of life extends through both: there is neither a here nor a beyond, but the great unity in which the beings that surpass us, the ‘angels’, are at home…We of the here and now are not for a moment hedged in the time-world, nor confined within it…we are incessantly flowing over and over to those who preceded us…, toward our origin, and toward those who seemingly come after us. ... It is our task to imprint this temporary, perishable earth into ourselves so deeply, so painfully and passionately, that its essence can rise again 'invisibly', inside us. We are the bees of the invisible. We wildly collect the honey of the visible, to store it in the great golden hive of the invisible."

Rainer Maria Rilke

 

"Yet: our cells remember. We can redirect our minds and consciousness with experiential perception. We can learn to feel morphic resonance (Rupert Sheldrake's term), and the living energy of all things-"the environment as our extended body".

We have to spend time outside-observing, listening, connecting-to learn the environment as our extended body. Looking out a window gives what an Andean friend calls a "conceptual" picture-the idea of tree or lake-in contrast to a "perceptual" or experiential sense of a specific tree and the feeling of its bark, leaves, and shape, or the smell of wet earth, the feel of the wind, and the shifting colors of a specific lake. The more we are outside experiencing such sensations deeply, the more we become embodied parts of the whole."

Meg Beeler

 

 

"If we think about it, we find that our life consists in this achieving of a pure relationship between ourselves and the living universe about us. This is how I "save my soul" by accomplishing a pure relationship between me and another person, me and other people, me and a nation, me and a race of men, me and the animals, me and the trees or flowers, me and the earth, me and the skies and sun and stars, me and the moon: an infinity of pure relations, big and little, like the stars of the sky: that makes our eternity, for each one of us, me and the timber I am sawing, the lines of force I follow; me and the dough I knead for bread, me and the very motion with which I write, me and the bit of gold I have got. This, if we knew it, is our life and our eternity: the subtle, perfected relation between me and my whole circumambient universe."

D. H. Lawrence

Edited January 12, 2011 by Ulises

[9th]

the revolution will not be sanitized

it will be commercialized

transmogrified by a ZAP!

from the ray gun administration

in calculated incunabula extirpation

crackpot germination from ambulatory

masturbation, circulation of extant

genetic materials and hazmat procedure

crunchy captains chomping down Big Corn

holes available for exploration and

intercourse with mermaids on the dinner table

breakfast nooks with common crooks

untenable criminals forsook their chains

drenched the walls with mass spermicide

run out from underside of Hades drizzle

chasing the trains from excised wounds

ripped, stripped and dew drop dripped

upside-down with grass ingrown

setting fires and starlit mires ablaze

unfazed in the haze of wrong ways

right down the line and stopped

on a dime, dropped spinning time

spaceman spliffs trailing

[Ulises]

Beginners

 

By Denise Levertov

 

 

Dedicated to the memory of Karen Silkwood and Eliot Gralla

 

"From too much love of living,

Hope and desire set free,

Even the weariest river

Winds somewhere to the sea--"

 

 

But we have only begun

To love the earth.

 

We have only begun

To imagine the fullness of life.

 

How could we tire of hope?

-- so much is in bud.

 

How can desire fail?

-- we have only begun

 

to imagine justice and mercy,

only begun to envision

 

how it might be

to live as siblings with beast and flower,

not as oppressors.

 

Surely our river

cannot already be hastening

into the sea of nonbeing?

 

Surely it cannot

drag, in the silt,

all that is innocent?

 

Not yet, not yet--

there is too much broken

that must be mended,

 

too much hurt we have done to each other

that cannot yet be forgiven.

 

We have only begun to know

the power that is in us if we would join

our solitudes in the communion of struggle.

 

So much is unfolding that must

complete its gesture,

 

so much is in bud.

[ben]

[Ulises]

[Vajrahridaya]

...fascinating...:

"Previous spiritual teachers, thus interpreting the nature of the world as one of ignorance and suffering, saw the only solution to be a radical transcendence of this existence, through a return to the Absolute; what the Hindus call 'Liberation' and the Buddhists 'Nirvana'.

 

 

Samsara seen clearly is the experience of Nirvana. There is no where to go, and nothing to transcend.

 

Where do you get this idea that Buddhists are trying to transcend anything other than ignorance? There is no transcendent absolute in Buddhism.

[Ulises]

Samsara seen clearly is the experience of Nirvana. There is no where to go, and nothing to transcend.

 

Where do you get this idea that Buddhists are trying to transcend anything other than ignorance? There is no transcendent absolute in Buddhism.

 

Just answer this question:

Does a Buddhist want to re-incarnate..or not incarnate anymore...?