[TTC Study] Chapter 17 of the Tao Teh Ching

[dust]

17 and 18 being regarded in GD as the same chapter, I'll put them together.

 

 

17

大上下智又之 A great ruler is one of whom the people are aware;

亓卽新譽之 Next is one who is praised;

亓卽畏之 Next is one who is feared;

亓卽婺之 Next is one who is ridiculed;

信不足咹又不信 When one is distrustful, he will be mistrusted,

猷唬亓貴言也 His most treasured words will be lost;

成事述功 If he manages affairs well,

而百省曰我自然也 The people will say, “We did it ourselves”

18

古大道癹咹又忎義 So, when the Way is destroyed? We have benevolence and justice;

六新不和咹又孝孳 When the six relationships are not in harmony? We have filial piety and subordination;

邦家緍亂咹又正臣 When the nation is in disarray? We have righteous officials

Edited November 4, 2014 by dustybeijing

[Marblehead]

It's interesting that Lao Tzu was arguing against Confucian philosophy before Confucius ever presented it.

[dust]

As someone on the forum (maybe you?) mentioned elsewhere, wasn't Confucius more of a vehicle for collecting, elaborating upon, and enshrining ideas that already existed?

[Marblehead]

As someone on the forum (maybe you?) mentioned elsewhere, wasn't Confucius more of a vehicle for collecting, elaborating upon, and enshrining ideas that already existed?

I have thought that thought but don't recall ever making such a statement here on this forum.

 

It is well known that Confucius spent the better part of his life in libraries reading what others had written. But I would still give him great credit for bringing all the various thoughts together and forming a philosophy from what he had learned.

 

I do give him credit, it's just that I am not one of his followers.

[dawei]

It's interesting that Lao Tzu was arguing against Confucian philosophy before Confucius ever presented it.

 

That is because Confucius was not the first Confucian

 

The word "Ru" is meant to describe those of this manner of philosophy and it can translate as 'scholars'.

 

http://thetaobums.com/topic/34957-origin-of-ru-or-scholars-confucian/

 

Confucius did use the 'past' to educate the present:

 

http://www.philtar.ac.uk/encyclopedia/confuc/early.html

 

The Doctrines of Early Confucianism bore the clear mark of transmitting and transforming the old tradition. This tradition was believed to have been embodied in the Six Arts, the Books of Poetry, History, Changes, Rites, Music and The Annals of Spring and Autumn, which were taken as the basic textbooks by Confucius to educate his disciples and students.