Presence meets Ego

[Sunya]

Kate has a view of Buddhism that is completely her own. She's been at it for a while, no matter how many times her wrong view has been corrected through scriptural reference and the shared understanding of Buddhists, she doesn't let go of her Nihilistic view of Buddhist teaching, of which there is no reference for within the Buddhist Cannon.

 

Buddhism teaches the transformation of the self, from being locked in personal encaged reference to referencing the all, which is self inclusive.

 

Buddhism teaches the relativity of the self, and the lack of ultimate, static nature, revealing that you, yourself are completely malleable and able to change and transform, from bound to free.

 

There is no Nihilism inherent in the teachings of the Buddha, and he in fact eschewed Nihilism and called it an extreme view that has no business in Buddhist philosophy or psychology.

 

But, most Eternalists, who are deeply conditioned by Eternalism, or the notion of a permanent self out of fear, will initially project Nihilism onto Buddhism when they first come across the teaching. Of course, this is done out of a complete misunderstanding of the teaching. I used to do this myself. I used to project Nihilism onto Buddhism, as I was deeply conditioned by Theism before I took refuge in the 3 jewels. It took some direct intuitive experiences of the meaning of dependent origination/emptiness to reveal where in my subconscious I was projecting this mis-assumption of Nihilism onto the Buddhadharma.

 

It took a number of years.

 

This post would've been a lot better without the first paragraph.

 

If you want a definition of the ego... one could say it's "fear." Fear itself is the ego. Once fear is gone, no more limited self reference, no more blocked love, no more lack of compassion, no more lack of insight, no more contracted response habit patterns on this board or in life situations.

 

I'd say that going beyond fear won't eliminate self-grasping. There can still be joyful self-grasping I would call 'ego' a pattern of thinking that leads to self-consciousness. It is the pattern of thinking with the presumption that there is a separate self/soul, a center of awareness somewhere behind the eyes rather than in and one with the World.

Edited January 15, 2011 by Sunya

[Vajrahridaya]

Big problem right there Mr VJ. You spoke about me, and not on my behalf. If your dogma is to hold, you ought to let me "dependently originate" wherever that happens to be the case. And I am, in fact, from here on in, utterly non-dependent upon your arising

 

I'm guessing you're too deep in to care.

 

Sad. You could have been a neat guy.

 

Wishing you health, happiness and peace and :-( too

 

You've never heard anything I've said from the very beginning. I wrote what I wrote for the sake of others reading as I've found you to be like a brick wall anyway.

 

You could have taken it entirely without that ego you hold so tightly to, but you of course, as predicted, did not.

 

I do wish you health, happiness and inner opening.

[9th]

Buddhism would say (as far as I know about the teachings)

 

Sums it up quite well. Until this is thoroughly understood, there wont be much point in discussion.

[Vajrahridaya]

I'd say that going beyond fear won't eliminate self-grasping. There can still be joyful self-grasping I would call 'ego' a pattern of thinking that leads to self-consciousness. It is the pattern of thinking with the presumption that there is a separate self/soul, a center of awareness somewhere behind the eyes rather than in and one with the World.

 

I was actually thinking of this today, and I agree.

 

You're right that freedom from the fear of death does not necessarily lead to compete Buddhahood in the sense that it is defined in Buddhism. It does lead to Jivanmukti though which is liberated while living, which is not even the last stage in Shaivite Tantra.

 

So yes. I agree.

[Marblehead]

Just popping in here to remind yu'all that I still love my ego.

[9th]

Just popping in here to remind yu'all that I still love my ego.

 

Have you stroked it today yet?

[johndoe2012]

It allows us to identify and work with clusters of beliefs and energies that conglomerate. John Rowan called them sub - personalities. It is a highly effective method for many people, of working on their various facets.

 

despite what the image says, you cant just click to look inside...

 

thanks cat.

 

Initially I had a bit of aversion to the suggestion of a book with psychological self-help exercises but then I looked within and found that all methods should apply in self-healing.

 

What's your view on transactional analysis?

[Marblehead]

Have you stroked it today yet?

 

Nope. I don't do that any more. I have learned what happens when I do that. Not really all that nice.

 

PS I did exercise with the weights this morning though. Hehehe.

Edited January 15, 2011 by Marblehead

[9th]

Nope. I don't do that any more. I have learned what happens when I do that. Not really all that nice.

 

So you have learned alot in 8 hours, have you?

[Marblehead]

So you have learned alot in 8 hours, have you?

 

If I don't learn something within any 8 hour period it means I have been sleeping.

[9th]

If I don't learn something within any 8 hour period it means I have been sleeping.

 

This is a very apt description.

 

btw - Have you seen this movie before?

 

[Marblehead]

Yes, I have seen that.

 

That scene was really cool first viewing.

 

I learned a long time ago that you should never take just a knife to a gun fight.

[9th]

Yes, I have seen that.

 

That scene was really cool first viewing.

 

I learned a long time ago that you should never take just a knife to a gun fight.

 

Yes, when people delight in violence it often leads to hard lessons. In fact, there is one circling around you at the moment. I would advise caution.

[Marblehead]

In fact, there is one circling around you at the moment. I would advise caution.

 

I would suggest that you are wrong in this regard. (Violence is no longer a part of my life.)

 

I learned two things today that I can identify: how to download and save a copy of the US Army's Field Manual on Physical Fitness, and that I can install an application at my fish pond exactly opposite of what I had installed it before and it still operates at 100% effeciency.

[9th]

I would suggest that you are wrong in this regard. (Violence is no longer a part of my life.)

 

Suggestions and assertions are not awareness. I wish you good luck with your learning process.

[Marblehead]

Suggestions and assertions are not awareness. I wish you good luck with your learning process.

 

You went out in space on me again. Hehehe.

 

Of course suggestions and assertions are not awareness.

 

I don't rely on luck. I rely on logic and probability.

 

Yeah, and sometimes I act (or not) intuitively.

 

But yes, I also wish you (I have been told that wishing is not Taoist either) the best with your journey.

 

 

Ps We sure did a good job at hijacking this thread, didn't we?

[Vajrahridaya]

 

Ps We sure did a good job at hijacking this thread, didn't we?

 

Conversations have a natural way of transforming from topic to topic as everything is connected and one can bridge any gap in this way. I don't see anything inherently wrong with it.

 

What do we want? Linear and robotic order, or awareness of the secret connections between abstract notions?

Edited January 15, 2011 by Vajrahridaya

[Marblehead]

Conversations have a natural way of transforming from topic to topic as everything is connected and one can bridge any gap in this way. I don't see anything inherently wrong with it.

 

What do we want? Linear and robotic order, or awareness of the secret connections between abstract notions?

 

Agree. This is a point I have tried to make a couple of times before.

 

And you guys did a good job with the "True Self" thread. Hehehe.

[Vajrahridaya]

Agree. This is a point I have tried to make a couple of times before.

 

And you guys did a good job with the "True Self" thread. Hehehe.

 

I think it's fun, the natural evolution of conversations. Even arguments.

[Marblehead]

I think it's fun, the natural evolution of conversations. Even arguments.

 

Our silent thoughts normally work that way too. One thing leads to another. Hehehe. No, please don't tell me about interdenpendancy.

[Vajrahridaya]

Our silent thoughts normally work that way too. One thing leads to another. Hehehe. No, please don't tell me about interdenpendancy.

 

I won't tell you about interenpendancy, but maybe about inter-dependency?

[Vajrahridaya]

I'm guessing you're too deep in to care.

 

No, really I apologize for maybe being too harsh. It's just I feel like you fake read, without any openness. It's like you don't care to take in anything related to you for the sake of clarity and help. Which I honestly felt from my heart I did with the upmost respect. But, it's like you are too deep into your ego and it's notions to care to open up. You get an emotional feeling and you just identify with it, and your mind works out intellectual justifications for it's existence, and you stand there, supporting it... as if it's the ultimate truth. I worked to help you correct your total misunderstanding for quite some time now, and nothing has sunk through the layers of your completely subjective projections... so... I talked about you as if you weren't here, in a kind of final attempt.

 

But... alas.

 

So... yes... Be well! Just... do your Taoist thing and evolve through that paradigm... this would be very good and add to my joy very much!! Just stop going around damning Buddhism, because you really, and honestly have no idea what you're talking about when it comes to Buddhism. This whole idea of, "I feel fear, so something must be wrong." Is just a reflection of your lack of self examination and nothing more.

 

Peace.

[Sunya]

Just popping in here to remind yu'all that I still love my ego.

 

Haha

 

What I don't really understand is when people say 'my ego'. Like, if someone gets angry or something they'll say sorry that was my ego. So 'ego' is defined a that selfish aspect of yourself that gets angry, arrogant, judgmental, etc. But if ego is simply the self-contraction, the sense of I as a separate being, then saying 'my ego' makes no sense. It's like saying the river's water. Who's ego is it? If you say 'my ego' then that is saying you are something beyond the ego, but if ego is the sense of self then there is no self beyond ego.

[Vajrahridaya]

Haha

 

What I don't really understand is when people say 'my ego'. Like, if someone gets angry or something they'll say sorry that was my ego. So 'ego' is defined a that selfish aspect of yourself that gets angry, arrogant, judgmental, etc. But if ego is simply the self-contraction, the sense of I as a separate being, then saying 'my ego' makes no sense. It's like saying the river's water. Who's ego is it? If you say 'my ego' then that is saying you are something beyond the ego, but if ego is the sense of self then there is no self beyond ego.

 

Brilliant!

[Marblehead]

Haha

 

What I don't really understand is when people say 'my ego'. Like, if someone gets angry or something they'll say sorry that was my ego. So 'ego' is defined a that selfish aspect of yourself that gets angry, arrogant, judgmental, etc. But if ego is simply the self-contraction, the sense of I as a separate being, then saying 'my ego' makes no sense. It's like saying the river's water. Who's ego is it? If you say 'my ego' then that is saying you are something beyond the ego, but if ego is the sense of self then there is no self beyond ego.

 

Excellent observation! Let me see if I can speak well to it.

 

My first image is that of a cartoon character with an angel and a devil on each side of the character's head. These both are images of our only one ego - our image of ourself.

 

My second image is that of the NA grandfather telling his grandson the story of the two wolves that live inside us; one bad and one good - constantly fighting for control of our mind. The grandson asks, "Which one wins?" and the grandfather replies, "The one you feed."

 

In my understanding, our ego is nothing more than our self-awareness. Now, if we think we are more than what we really are then we have an excessively strong ego; if we think we are less than what we really are then we have an excessively weak ego; if we see ourself as we truely are, strengths and weakness included then we have a healthy ego.

 

Thing is, as in the good wolf/bad wolf metaphor, whichever one we feed will be the one that dominates. A healthy ego or an ego that is either too excessively strong or too excessively weak.

 

This is sometimes called being honest with yourself. Accepting one's self as we truely are.

 

Of course, if our ego is either too weak or too strong we should take corrective action. But sometimes we don't even realize we have a problem and we generally don't accept advise from others regarding this concept. Tough job finding that middle path and mostly staying on it.